Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Eboard10

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Angela said:
So I have been on the keto diet now for four months. I have lost about 25lbs and I feel amazing. I thought I would share my results from the cholesterol test I had done.

Triglycerides 100 mg/dl which is in their range of 150 or less

HDL 60 mg/dl Which is within their healthy range of greater than 46

LDL 126mg/dl which is in the range of 130 or less

Chol to hdlc ratio 3.4 (calc). Which is in their range of 5.0 or less

Total cholesterol 206mg/dl. Which according to the standard is high the range is 125-200

My blood pressure is 108/68

What I don't quite understand is, why is my total cholesterol out of their range, when all the other cholesterols fall within their standards?

Anyway, just thought I would share these results. This is after eating loads of fat for the last 4 months. :D

BTW my blood sugar level at the time was 83mg/dl


At the time I had this done, it was supposed to be a fasting blood test. I told them I had fasted, but remembered later that I had tea prior to the test with butter in it. I wonder if that would affect my cholesterol test.

The results look good to me. :thup:

It just goes to show how unreliable the standard cholesterol measurements really are.

Like nicklebleu said, total cholesterol tends to increase when following the ketogenic diet and you might see a rise in LDL which is fine given that on a high fat diet your body will produce more of the larger LDL particles which are actually benign and can even protect against heart disease. You will usually also have higher levels of HDL. What's really important though is keeping triglyceride levels low. High triglyceride levels are a sign of inflammation and are associated with insulin resistance and a higher risk of coronary hard disease to name a few.
 

A Jay

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Prometeo said:
Still recomending giving a check to ben pakulski.

After reading and looking into his systems, I've found that it's basically a poor imitation of HIT with added unnecessary sets and stretches. Interestingly, I just remembered that Drew Baye wrote an article referencing Ben's claims of a study that backs up his MI40 product series:

A lot of the recent marketing hype for inter-set stretching under load or “cell expansion protocol” is based on a study they claim shows it causes 200% faster muscular strength and size increases, but I have been unable to find this study anywhere anywhere, and when I asked the bodybuilder selling the program where the study was published his only reply was “University of Tampa”. I asked for a specific reference, but have yet to receive a response.

http://baye.com/qa-loaded-stretching/

No offense but I'd trust more professional than someone who has less than a year training. And if I say Ben knows his stuff, is because he knows he stuff.

See above. It seems that what he really knows is how to take steroids and sell gimmicks.

He's known not as a pro bodybuilder, but more as a scientist bodybuilder, and as a teacher.

So was Mike Mentzer, but Mike still used steroids during his competition days.

And no, compound movements like squats are not easy to learn, is not just squating. Is about foot position, hips, knees, acceleration, etc. I've been training with this man and I still learn things from him.

Although there are many subtleties to them, overall compound movements are very easy to learn. At the same time, just because a trainee doesn't know every nuance of a specific movement doesn't mean that trainee couldn't benefit from an attempt at a single set taken to momentary muscular failure. A person has to start from where they are at in order to progress forward.

What amazed me recently from him, is that he's been recently talking about the concept of "output" and "input" exercises. Why? he says some exercises add information to the field you are standing at, like a squat or bench press where you add your energy to the movement; these are called output exercises. While other type of training like sports or jumps squats for example are "input" exercises, where the body takes information from the ground through the feet. He's still vague about this, but he says that there's a correlation between input exercises and the avoidance of injury.

:cuckoo: Okay, this sounds like he's trying to sell something that's way off in left field. Ditch the wack-job and pick up a copy of "Body By Science" if you want to save yourself some time, money, and energy.

;) Believe me I've certainly done my research on him and on this.

I joined the forum to avoid believing anything or anyone, sorry. ;D
 

SeekinTruth

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Eboard10 said:
Angela said:
So I have been on the keto diet now for four months. I have lost about 25lbs and I feel amazing. I thought I would share my results from the cholesterol test I had done.

Triglycerides 100 mg/dl which is in their range of 150 or less

HDL 60 mg/dl Which is within their healthy range of greater than 46

LDL 126mg/dl which is in the range of 130 or less

Chol to hdlc ratio 3.4 (calc). Which is in their range of 5.0 or less

Total cholesterol 206mg/dl. Which according to the standard is high the range is 125-200

My blood pressure is 108/68

What I don't quite understand is, why is my total cholesterol out of their range, when all the other cholesterols fall within their standards?

Anyway, just thought I would share these results. This is after eating loads of fat for the last 4 months. :D

BTW my blood sugar level at the time was 83mg/dl


At the time I had this done, it was supposed to be a fasting blood test. I told them I had fasted, but remembered later that I had tea prior to the test with butter in it. I wonder if that would affect my cholesterol test.

The results look good to me. :thup:

It just goes to show how unreliable the standard cholesterol measurements really are.

Like nicklebleu said, total cholesterol tends to increase when following the ketogenic diet and you might see a rise in LDL which is fine given that on a high fat diet your body will produce more of the larger LDL particles which are actually benign and can even protect against heart disease. You will usually also have higher levels of HDL. What's really important though is keeping triglyceride levels low. High triglyceride levels are a sign of inflammation and are associated with insulin resistance and a higher risk of coronary hard disease to name a few.

Yeah, I have to agree that the numbers look great, Angela. The really important thing is triglycerides and only people on very low carb diets get really good numbers on that. There's no patented huge profit making drug to lower triglycerides on the market, so there's no hype about the dangers of it. Over the decades, the total cholesterol "safe range" has steadily been reduced to where it is now (while the evidence kept accumulating how meaningless it is) to get more and more people on the drugs.
 

will01

Jedi Council Member
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Overwhelmed by all the replies, thankyou all.

nicklebleu Yesterday at 03:28:46 PM said:
You seem to be doing quite well, and as you pointed out, you might still get more benefits in the future if you persist with the diet. Don't forget that you were on carbs for nearly 40 years - it takes time to undo the damage that this has caused. It's probably fair to say that the longer you have been on a high-carb diet, the longer it takes to heal the body.

Yes, I've no doubt there is more healing to be done and I intend to stay with the diet, EE and the forum. Unfortunately, I'm not the best example of the keto diet for those around me. A few relatives are convinced that my health problems were the result of the keto diet. My reply was "do you think it was the keto diet, or maybe the preceding 38 years of sugar and junk food?". They maintain their views however (which is fine).

Gaby said:
That is priceless will01, thank you for sharing!

If you have a predisposition to form kidney stones, you will benefit from potassium citrate supplementation along with what you did/are doing. That is, if you suspect it. Kidney stones hurt like hell, some have milder pains, but usually it is pretty dramatic.

:flowers:

Thanks for the tip on potassium Gaby. Everything seems to be flowing smoothly now. None of the tests proved anything conclusively, but I do sympathize with the doctors. So many diseases/disorders have similar symptoms and with so many organs located in that part of the body, it must be a diagnostic nightmare.

Eboard10 Yesterday at 10:21:10 PM said:
I'm a prime example of how easy it is to follow the diet the wrong way. When I cut my carbs down to 0 I didn't increase my fat intake enough and as a consequence lost 8kg which for someone who used to weight 62kg is actually a lot! I basically became anorexic and had to eat three times the amount of fat to gain back weight. It's quite hard for people to increase their fat intake not so much because of the taste rather due to the early indoctrination and constant brainwashing about the "evil effects" of saturated fat.

I hear ya on the fat intake. Used to hate animal fat so much growing up, that I would cut off some lean meat with the fat, to avoid it totally. For me it was the taste/texture, but no doubt the brainwashing effect as well. Had some fatty lamb chops for dinner tonight, and ate the fat before the meat. It's been quite a reversal for me.

Eboard10 Yesterday at 10:21:10 PM said:
I was also taking several supplements when transitioning and am now only taking magnesium and occasionally Vitamin C if I feel ill, seldomly now. It's very important to increase you salt intake when going keto; I had the same problems regarding cramps and after upping my salt intake they disappeared. I didn't notice any big improvements in concentration and memory either. Instead, my migraines almost completely disappeared, I stopped having stomach aches and my acne greatly improved too though it didn't disappear like it happened with others. Going keto was by far the best choice in my life but it was a lot harder than I initially thought and learnt several lessons before getting ketoadapted.

Reading what supps others were taking, made me feel I wasn't taking enough. After my hospital stay, I just increased what I had and hit the sauna (only a cheap ebay type) more. It was very effective. Now, I just use "maintenance" amounts.
 

monotonic

The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I don't think it is strange to be disgusted by the taste of fat from grain-fed unhealthy animals. It has a very different composition to that of naturally fed healthy animals. Yes, there is the mainstream conditioning, but there is also the possibility that maybe grain-fed animals fat really are disgusting.
 

Eboard10

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

monotonic said:
I don't think it is strange to be disgusted by the taste of fat from grain-fed unhealthy animals. It has a very different composition to that of naturally fed healthy animals. Yes, there is the mainstream conditioning, but there is also the possibility that maybe grain-fed animals fat really are disgusting.

I agree that there is a big difference in taste between grain-fed and grass-fed fat but at the same time I'm inclined to think that our initial taste aversion to it when starting the diet is mainly due to the constant mainstream conditioning about fats to the extent that often people automatically associate it with bad taste, especially in those countries where bacon isn't commonly eaten and vegetable oils are used instead.
 

nicklebleu

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We shouldn't forget that taste is mostly acquired. You can get used - and start to love - almost anything. I used to be a heavy coffee drinker and a few years back I decided to mostly switch to green tea. Problem was that I found green tea disgusting, like chewing grass. But every day I brew a cup of it and took first one sip, the next day two and slowly increased my intake. Suddenly after about two months I realized, I actually love it!

So next time you come across a person who says that he or she doesn't like that, you can say that it is very easy to change taste - IF that person really wants to. Of course motivation is key here, and the conditioning mentioned above.
 

monotonic

The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Incidentally, I find that a small pinch of ascorbic acid before steeping a glass makes green tea taste better (I also use Stevia). So far I only get a grassy taste if I leave the tea bag in for longer than 20-30 minutes. If I were to drink it without sweetener I would prefer plain water instead, but maybe I should experiment with that. Still, I have no need for caffeine, or the distraction of making tea except on occasion.

I'm not so sure about this business about taste being so malleable. I've heard stories about people trying to "get used to" B-vitamins or certain foods or the taste of their local water. After so much time, the body starts to rebel. If you don't give up before you start, or give up after you start, then gradually you start to gag and throw it right back up. If not and you can suppress the gag reflex, then it becomes a point of anxiety that looms over your day. What about struggling with the anxiety of having to imbibe something that disgusts you and makes you gag, multiple times a day every day? Is it worth the stress? Gabor Mate tells us what chronic stress does to us. Maybe you can overcome the anxiety, but then again, maybe the taste is a signal from your body? After all, I don't think we can separate taste from biology any more than we can psychology.

nicklebleu said:
So next time you come across a person who says that he or she doesn't like that, you can say that it is very easy to change taste - IF that person really wants to. Of course motivation is key here, and the conditioning mentioned above.

Sure, but the "really wanting to" part seems a bit snobbish and invalidating. I guess, if the problem is not wanting it "bad enough", then the solution would be to want it "real bad"? That is just not helpful. Why not instead say something which would impart at least a bit of working knowledge? That on the other hand is inspiring and gets through to people without setting nearly all their programs against them.
 

3DStudent

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I used to put the marrow and dark brown meaty "gristle" from my marrow bones into my broth. I had to force myself to eat them, as they stink a little and I don't like the texture. After some months of dealing with it, I finally gave in and just started tossing those parts out. So I think you can force yourself to eat things that turn you off, but it's a bit of suffering. I think it may not be useful suffering, and your body may be smarter than you think.
 

hlat

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FOTCM Member
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If you use an immersion blender or even a regular blender, the marrow and meat parts just become tiny indistinguishable parts of the broth. In the beginning I dumped them but now I keep them because they have no impact on taste as tiny bits.
 

RflctnOfU

Jedi Council Member
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I haven't gone into ketosis yet, as I just started (re: getting off my ass to make it happen), and I have a LOT of catching up to do with this thread, but I wanted to share my experience after making the first batch of the fat bomb last night.

Texture was a bit off. I used the first (I think) recipe which calls for cocoanut cream. As I posted in the keto-adaptation consensus thread, the flavor was amazing and very satiating (used salted butter...yummm). I ate approx. 1/4 to 1/3 the recommended serving size, about three heaping spoonfuls, to try it out, at around 8:30 PM. I went to bed at around 12:30 or so.

As I was going through my meditation routine, I noticed a surge in energy, but it was a calm energy, and my 'thoughts' seemed to clarify and strengthen. Along with this, my 'inner sensation' was clearer than it has been in quite some time. A bit later, I had, in gaming terms, 'chain lightning' like sharp, but not too intense, 'bolts', separated by a few seconds, in my gut. I did rush into it, and I may have had too large a dose too quick, but all seems well now. The most interesting thing was that I haven't had such a good nights sleep in...I can't remember the last time!! I woke from a VERY vivid dream (also been 'forever' with that), at 6:20ish AM and felt COMPLETELY rested. That also hasn't happened before, possibly ever. Despite my eagerness, and the momentary pain that resulted from it, the quality of how I feel today, and the quality of meditation, then sleep and dream, tells me this is definitely the way to eat. I am taking it slowly now, and gathering all possible data before 'jumping in' again, but I am very enthusiastic about completing the transition! A big plus is the first volume of Gaby's book just got posted (at a perfect moment, subjectively speaking). :)

Kris
 

RflctnOfU

Jedi Council Member
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

One other thing I forgot to mention...entire chunks from young childhood suddenly were remembered in vivid detail.

Kris
 

Anthony

The Living Force
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Day 3 of Keto diet. So far I've been feeling a bit nauseous since I'm not used
to eating too much fat. I eat 2 cups of bone broth with added lard, butter with meat,
I think it all adds up to about over 120g of fat, I don't count the fat from bone broth
since I'm unsure about it's nutrition data. Other than that I've been having loose stool,
the rest is fine, I feel great.

Should I be consuming more fat?
It's mentioned that when first starting Keto-diet, that one should
consume more protein for the first couple of weeks. Does this
mean that I can eat more than 25g of protein in one meal?
 

Gaby

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Anthony said:
Day 3 of Keto diet. So far I've been feeling a bit nauseous since I'm not used
to eating too much fat. I eat 2 cups of bone broth with added lard, butter with meat,
I think it all adds up to about over 120g of fat, I don't count the fat from bone broth
since I'm unsure about it's nutrition data. Other than that I've been having loose stool,
the rest is fine, I feel great.

Should I be consuming more fat?
It's mentioned that when first starting Keto-diet, that one should
consume more protein for the first couple of weeks. Does this
mean that I can eat more than 25g of protein in one meal?

That is one of the concepts, yes. But if you don't tolerate such big amounts of fat all at once, you can eat it slowly throughout the day, instead of "one gulp" so to speak. Even if you eat 2 tablespoons every hour or so until you get a hold of the diarrhea or nausea.

Make sure you read properly the research and experiences posted here for more clues as to what to expect. You'll probably need transitioning supplements, or at the very least apple cider vinegar with your meals to help you with digestion.

Listen to your body's needs to adjust things accordingly. Easy does it too!
 

Keit

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Good article on gut flora, vagus nerve, and why it's important to push through the adaptation period in order to alter the gut bacteria.

http://www.sott.net/article/283863-Gut-bacteria-puppet-masters-In-an-ecosystem-within-us-microbes-evolved-to-sway-food-choices
In an article published this week in the journal BioEssays, researchers from UC San Francisco, Arizona State University and University of New Mexico concluded from a review of the recent scientific literature that microbes influence human eating behavior and dietary choices to favor consumption of the particular nutrients they grow best on, rather than simply passively living off whatever nutrients we choose to send their way.

Bacterial species vary in the nutrients they need. Some prefer fat, and others sugar, for instance. But they not only vie with each other for food and to retain a niche within their ecosystem - our digestive tracts - they also often have different aims than we do when it comes to our own actions, according to senior author Athena Aktipis, PhD, co-founder of the Center for Evolution and Cancer with the Helen Diller Family Comprehensive Cancer Center at UCSF.

While it is unclear exactly how this occurs, the authors believe this diverse community of microbes, collectively known as the gut microbiome, may influence our decisions by releasing signaling molecules into our gut. Because the gut is linked to the immune system, the endocrine system and the nervous system, those signals could influence our physiologic and behavioral responses.

"Bacteria within the gut are manipulative," said Carlo Maley, PhD, director of the UCSF Center for Evolution and Cancer and corresponding author on the paper." "There is a diversity of interests represented in the microbiome, some aligned with our own dietary goals, and others not."

Fortunately, it's a two-way street. We can influence the compatibility of these microscopic, single-celled houseguests by deliberating altering what we ingest, Maley said, with measurable changes in the microbiome within 24 hours of diet change.

"Our diets have a huge impact on microbial populations in the gut," Maley said. "It's a whole ecosystem, and it's evolving on the time scale of minutes."

There are even specialized bacteria that digest seaweed, found in humans in Japan, where seaweed is popular in the diet.

Research suggests that gut bacteria may be affecting our eating decisions in part by acting through the vagus nerve, which connects 100 million nerve cells from the digestive tract to the base of the brain.

"Microbes have the capacity to manipulate behavior and mood through altering the neural signals in the vagus nerve, changing taste receptors, producing toxins to make us feel bad, and releasing chemical rewards to make us feel good," said Aktipis, who is currently in the Arizona State University Department of Psychology.

In mice, certain strains of bacteria increase anxious behavior. In humans, one clinical trial found that drinking a probiotic containing Lactobacillus casei improved mood in those who were feeling the lowest.

Maley, Aktipis and first author Joe Alcock, MD, from the Department of Emergency Medicine at the University of New Mexico, proposed further research to test the sway microbes hold over us. For example, would transplantation into the gut of the bacteria requiring a nutrient from seaweed lead the human host to eat more seaweed?

The speed with which the microbiome can change may be encouraging to those who seek to improve health by altering microbial populations. This may be accomplished through food and supplement choices, by ingesting specific bacterial species in the form of probiotics, or by killing targeted species with antibiotics. Optimizing the balance of power among bacterial species in our gut might allow us to lead less obese and healthier lives, according to the authors.
 
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