Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

ok this might be a bit gross but I wonder if relevant...

Still got diarrhea and a tender stomach but not sure what is inflamed and a moment ago just had a look at the toilet to see my poo. It was just soft brown poo a bit like tar that had sank to the bottom and I could see small bubbles floating from it to the surface of the water a bit like champagne but not nearly as many. Now googling "bubbles in poo" I'm getting info about a intestinal bacteria imbalance and the bad stuff is competing against the good stuff. Also a mention of food fermenting and I wonder if that is more accurate and my stomach acid levels are still way to low to digest the food even with the 5-7 betaines I take with every meal

Has this happened to anyone else? Any thoughts?

It sounds like you're overwhelming your body's ability to absorb fat and it's getting down into the colon and causing irritation. Are you taking any digestive supplements other than betaine? Betaine is mostly for protein digestion, as the acid denatures the proteins allowing enzymes to reach all along the amino acid chain and make little snips to break it down. It may help to separate the fat a little, but doesn't really digest it.

Taking fat digesting enzymes (lipase) and, more importantly, bile salts (ox bile) is the important part for fat digestion. I'd go so far as to say it's essential for almost everyone when first transitioning. Your body simply isn't used to producing enough of its own enzymes and bile when you first transition, so it's really easy to overwhelm it. That's when you get diarrhea, upset stomach (usually showing up 3 or 4 hours after eating) or constipation as a result.

I'd also recommend a good soil-based probiotic in the beginning, and possibly continually. These are bacteria we simply don't get from our food chain anymore and they're very different from the carb digesting bacteria found in most probiotic supplements.

Hope this helps :)

 

[mugatea]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've got ox bile but have been sidelining it for the betaine. My bowels are feeling better today, not perfect but better and I feeling better too. I'm taking probiotics too.

I'm just back from a blood test and mentioned to nurse I was on Keto. "It's not healthy," she said, "bad for the kidneys. High protien diets aren't good." I had a choice to trying to explain or just sit there and try to stop laughing. I decided to appease and just listen and agreed that "everything in balance".

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've got ox bile but have been sidelining it for the betaine. My bowels are feeling better today, not perfect but better and I feeling better too. I'm taking probiotics too.

I'm just back from a blood test and mentioned to nurse I was on Keto. "It's not healthy," she said, "bad for the kidneys. High protien diets aren't good." I had a choice to trying to explain or just sit there and try to stop laughing. I decided to appease and just listen and agreed that "everything in balance".

Hahaha, I'm looking forward to seeing my doc in a month for a blood test to check I'm all good. Last year when I first tried keto he told me I'll get sick and suffer malnutrition without grains and dairy. He also told me that I don't love my daughter because I chose not to immunise her..

Shall be interesting to say the least, I plan to dispute him, I would ordinarily say nothing much but if he gets the ball rolling with a lecture I'll accept that as a come on to go in to battle and go in with a big speech on why I'm doing this to myself.

Glad you're feeling better too, maybe you're getting close to adaption. Good job!!!

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I just finished reading Maria Emmerich's Keto Adapted and have a question about evening primrose oil of which she claims that phenylalanine in it has great benefits but then suggests we stay away from aspartame. I was under the impression that phenylalanine was the main reason aspartame is so bad?? In Australia things like sugar free chewing gum says on the pack separate to the ingredients list 'contains phenylalanine' .

I'm a bit confused by this, there are contradicting bits of info out there about phenylalanine.

I'm just catching up on this thread and saw that this question was never addressed. Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid, meaning we need to get it in our diets or our bodies won't be able to make important proteins. The fact that it's found in aspartame is really neither here nor there - it's found throughout the food chain.

The reason products sometimes have labels that say "contains phenylalanine" is as a warning to people who have a genetic disorder called phenylketonuria (PKU). These people lack the enzyme that converts phenylalanine into tyrosine and so a partially converted byproduct builds up in the body causing severe side effects like intellectual disability, seizures and even retardation. People with PKU have to strictly avoid phenylalanine at all costs, so some food manufacturers label products that contain it (not sure if this is mandatory).

Hope that helps :)

Got it, thanks for the info. I did read that but am dubious about most things I read on the internet but happy to take the advice of someone from the forum because you're a so well researched!!!!

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Some good points were made. Just wanted to add that if you have serious gut issues (dysbiosis/imbalanced gut flora included), even bone broth could be problematic. You should start with "stock" - not cooked nearly as long as broth, and so not nearly as concentrated with all the good stuff in bone broth that can cause problems until the gut issues are solved/the gut is healed.

It's important to read all the material (I know it's really long) including the most important books. This broth vs stock, for example was already covered (there's also at least one, I think two bone broth threads). Until you can catch up on all the reading, just search for your specific issues and see what was already discussed on this thread, Life Without Bread thread, the Bone Broth thread(s) and searching the Diet and Health Board for key words concerning your issues in general.

As, Oxajil said L-carnatine and other things were used for the early period by many with good results. So do see what has already been covered. Yes, even butter may be problematic if you have gut issues, until they're resolved - depends on the person. And read the specifics on how to do resistance training specifically for dealing with dysfunctional mitochondria and activating "wild" DNA, etc. You have to try different things that worked for others and experiment until you find your own solutions. Also cold adaptation really works synergistically with ketosis. Hope this helps a bit.

Ooh gee thanks, I've missed so much and feel like there's so much to catch up on. Wish I had of found this forum way before I did, never mind, I'm learning every day so that's a good thing. It will all pay off soon!

Been trying the cold adaption, I'm really bad at it, only last a few seconds, just on my mid section below the chest and feel so uncomfortable and make the weirdest noises. It's really really hard to do, I really hate being cold. Brrrr

 

[mugatea]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Ooh gee thanks, I've missed so much and feel like there's so much to catch up on. Wish I had of found this forum way before I did, never mind, I'm learning every day so that's a good thing. It will all pay off soon!

Been trying the cold adaption, I'm really bad at it, only last a few seconds, just on my mid section below the chest and feel so uncomfortable and make the weirdest noises. It's really really hard to do, I really hate being cold. Brrrr

Me too, the cold adaption is harder than everything else combined.

Jamie

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

mugatea, as dugdeep said, make sure that if you're taking probiotics, it's not the usual stuff that's geared toward "carbovors" otherwise it's useless on this diet. Also as he mentioned, lipase and bile are what you have to concentrate on as you adapt. Because without these, if your own body is not making enough, you won't be able to digest the very high quantities of fat.

About the doctor's/nurse's "advice" about the keto diet, the nurse's ignorance is glaring, as by definition a ketogenic diet can't be very high in protein, because there's no way of getting and staying in permanent nutritional ketosis while eating a "high protein diet." This is a moderate protein, very high fat diet. Some of us may actually eat slightly less protein than the average person on SAD or any other standard diet. So that just goes to show you how much they know what they're talking about. Also there are people doing unhealthy ketogenic diets, where they eat things we don't including dairy and a lot of questionable fats. So all keto diets are not the same. And Fluffy, think twice before jumping into a confrontation with your doctor. Ask yourself what would you be gaining/trying to accomplish by doing that. You may cause unnecessary problems for yourself.

 

[Chad]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm just back from a blood test and mentioned to nurse I was on Keto. "It's not healthy," she said, "bad for the kidneys. High protien diets aren't good." I had a choice to trying to explain or just sit there and try to stop laughing. I decided to appease and just listen and agreed that "everything in balance".

Hahaha, I'm looking forward to seeing my doc in a month for a blood test to check I'm all good. Last year when I first tried keto he told me I'll get sick and suffer malnutrition without grains and dairy. He also told me that I don't love my daughter because I chose not to immunise her..

Shall be interesting to say the least, I plan to dispute him, I would ordinarily say nothing much but if he gets the ball rolling with a lecture I'll accept that as a come on to go in to battle and go in with a big speech on why I'm doing this to myself.

Glad you're feeling better too, maybe you're getting close to adaption. Good job!!!

Like you Fluffy i was a party pal, ate very badly, drank most of my calories, and had a very sensitive gut because of this. Throwing up because of my lifestyle was a regular occurrence. And i believe i had totally messed up my hormone regulation; serotonin, adrenaline etc... Hyper vigilant and anxious and irritable - like too weak to take on the usual BS. This was incremental, but by the 'end' as i began to change my life, it was obvious what damage had been done.

Recently i told my GP that since going Keto not only has my anxiety subsided, but i'm also settling better for sleep. And that it has basically changed my life. The look on his face said it all, but he was young and i'm fairly outspoken and a little bit later i showed him some articles about how sleeping tablets lead to brain shrinkage/alzheimers. GP's, unlike US "drug pushers" (his words) hate prescribing sleeping tablets due to the terrible side effects and chances of addictions, so whether he agreed or not it saved him that dilemma. And i think that actually had more impact than anything else.

(not saying this will work for everyone of course, just my experience - pick your battles and all that :)

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

About the doctor's/nurse's "advice" about the keto diet, the nurse's ignorance is glaring, as by definition a ketogenic diet can't be very high in protein, because there's no way of getting and staying in permanent nutritional ketosis while eating a "high protein diet." This is a moderate protein, very high fat diet. Some of us may actually eat slightly less protein than the average person on SAD or any other standard diet. So that just goes to show you how much they know what they're talking about. Also there are people doing unhealthy ketogenic diets, where they eat things we don't including dairy and a lot of questionable fats. So all keto diets are not the same. And Fluffy, think twice before jumping into a confrontation with your doctor. Ask yourself what would you be gaining/trying to accomplish by doing that. You may cause unnecessary problems for yourself.

Agree. It can also be draining trying to get someone who's not really interested in that information.

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

About the doctor's/nurse's "advice" about the keto diet, the nurse's ignorance is glaring, as by definition a ketogenic diet can't be very high in protein, because there's no way of getting and staying in permanent nutritional ketosis while eating a "high protein diet." This is a moderate protein, very high fat diet. Some of us may actually eat slightly less protein than the average person on SAD or any other standard diet. So that just goes to show you how much they know what they're talking about. Also there are people doing unhealthy ketogenic diets, where they eat things we don't including dairy and a lot of questionable fats. So all keto diets are not the same. And Fluffy, think twice before jumping into a confrontation with your doctor. Ask yourself what would you be gaining/trying to accomplish by doing that. You may cause unnecessary problems for yourself.

Agree. It can also be draining trying to get someone who's not really interested in that information.

I'll only confront it if he starts to question and belittle me which he has done in the past for my choices. I am not going to let someone stand I me because they think they're above me, but like I said only if he engages or asks why. I've been thinking that it's time for a new one anyhow, someone more aligned with what we're on about in life, not someone who is more interested in medicating and bandaid fixes.

A lady I used to see has moved back to the practice and she's got a really opened mind, she used to move in close and sniff me because I smelled like cigarettes. I have seen her hiding and smoking a few times, I might go back to her!

 

[Jono]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

About the doctor's/nurse's "advice" about the keto diet, the nurse's ignorance is glaring, as by definition a ketogenic diet can't be very high in protein, because there's no way of getting and staying in permanent nutritional ketosis while eating a "high protein diet." This is a moderate protein, very high fat diet. Some of us may actually eat slightly less protein than the average person on SAD or any other standard diet. So that just goes to show you how much they know what they're talking about. Also there are people doing unhealthy ketogenic diets, where they eat things we don't including dairy and a lot of questionable fats. So all keto diets are not the same. And Fluffy, think twice before jumping into a confrontation with your doctor. Ask yourself what would you be gaining/trying to accomplish by doing that. You may cause unnecessary problems for yourself.

Agree. It can also be draining trying to get someone who's not really interested in that information.

I'll only confront it if he starts to question and belittle me which he has done in the past for my choices. I am not going to let someone stand I me because they think they're above me, but like I said only if he engages or asks why. I've been thinking that it's time for a new one anyhow, someone more aligned with what we're on about in life, not someone who is more interested in medicating and bandaid fixes.

A lady I used to see has moved back to the practice and she's got a really opened mind, she used to move in close and sniff me because I smelled like cigarettes. I have seen her hiding and smoking a few times, I might go back to her!

Maybe the next time you visit him, it would be a good opportunity to practice getting over your self importance? ...That's if he's acting like he's 'above you'. However if he's genuinely enquiring, go for it. :)

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

About the doctor's/nurse's "advice" about the keto diet, the nurse's ignorance is glaring, as by definition a ketogenic diet can't be very high in protein, because there's no way of getting and staying in permanent nutritional ketosis while eating a "high protein diet." This is a moderate protein, very high fat diet. Some of us may actually eat slightly less protein than the average person on SAD or any other standard diet. So that just goes to show you how much they know what they're talking about. Also there are people doing unhealthy ketogenic diets, where they eat things we don't including dairy and a lot of questionable fats. So all keto diets are not the same. And Fluffy, think twice before jumping into a confrontation with your doctor. Ask yourself what would you be gaining/trying to accomplish by doing that. You may cause unnecessary problems for yourself.

Agree. It can also be draining trying to get someone who's not really interested in that information.

I'll only confront it if he starts to question and belittle me which he has done in the past for my choices. I am not going to let someone stand I me because they think they're above me, but like I said only if he engages or asks why. I've been thinking that it's time for a new one anyhow, someone more aligned with what we're on about in life, not someone who is more interested in medicating and bandaid fixes.

A lady I used to see has moved back to the practice and she's got a really opened mind, she used to move in close and sniff me because I smelled like cigarettes. I have seen her hiding and smoking a few times, I might go back to her!

Maybe the next time you visit him, it would be a good opportunity to practice getting over your self importance? ...That's if he's acting like he's 'above you'. However if he's genuinely enquiring, go for it. :)

He's got a bit of a 'I'm the doctor and I know best' thing going on. I'm not saying don't need to practice getting over myself more, that's an important tool, but I think as far as he doctor goes I am somewhat better informed about what's best for me and my health.

His solution to my severe depression 10 years ago was sampling me on 5 or more different antidepressants and even an antipsychotic... The only time he's ever mentioned diet it when I was pregnant and gaining weight rapidly I was told to cut back on fats- especially saturated ones.

Thanks for link to testing over myself thread, I will certainly look at that one :)

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

About the doctor's/nurse's "advice" about the keto diet, the nurse's ignorance is glaring, as by definition a ketogenic diet can't be very high in protein, because there's no way of getting and staying in permanent nutritional ketosis while eating a "high protein diet." This is a moderate protein, very high fat diet. Some of us may actually eat slightly less protein than the average person on SAD or any other standard diet. So that just goes to show you how much they know what they're talking about. Also there are people doing unhealthy ketogenic diets, where they eat things we don't including dairy and a lot of questionable fats. So all keto diets are not the same. And Fluffy, think twice before jumping into a confrontation with your doctor. Ask yourself what would you be gaining/trying to accomplish by doing that. You may cause unnecessary problems for yourself.

Agree. It can also be draining trying to get someone who's not really interested in that information.

I'll only confront it if he starts to question and belittle me which he has done in the past for my choices. I am not going to let someone stand I me because they think they're above me, but like I said only if he engages or asks why. I've been thinking that it's time for a new one anyhow, someone more aligned with what we're on about in life, not someone who is more interested in medicating and bandaid fixes.

A lady I used to see has moved back to the practice and she's got a really opened mind, she used to move in close and sniff me because I smelled like cigarettes. I have seen her hiding and smoking a few times, I might go back to her!

Maybe the next time you visit him, it would be a good opportunity to practice getting over your self importance? ...That's if he's acting like he's 'above you'. However if he's genuinely enquiring, go for it. :)

He's got a bit of a 'I'm the doctor and I know best' thing going on. I'm not saying don't need to practice getting over myself more, that's an important tool, but I think as far as he doctor goes I am somewhat better informed about what's best for me and my health.

His solution to my severe depression 10 years ago was sampling me on 5 or more different antidepressants and even an antipsychotic... The only time he's ever mentioned diet it when I was pregnant and gaining weight rapidly I was told to cut back on fats- especially saturated ones.

Thanks for link to testing over myself thread, I will certainly look at that one :)

Just want to add that I do not wish to undermine the doctors practice.
I'm going to say it's kind of an experiment to see if I can sort out long term health issues I've had with gut/brain symptoms. And I must be ultra careful and considerate because his wife has recently had breast cancer, I don't know her health status so I'm not going to mention anything about the sugar/cancer linkage. I'm going to go in from the angle of gut health.
I am fairly antibiotic resistant from having so many courses of them in my life from reoccurring ear infections as a child. My last bout was when I was 15, I was on antibiotics for 5 months and ended up taking a few courses of schedule 8 antibiotic because the lesser grade stuff wouldn't work. I spent the first 4 years of my life pretty much on antibiotics too. No one ever mentioned a probiotic, gut health, etc.

Since I started KD my digestion has improved so much, still a bit to go but I haven't been a perfect keto angel so there's some delay. I think that's pretty good proof of the fact it's working for me.

I don't want to get anyone on the wrong foot, may be the doctor will be interested and want to follow my progress for his own reasons???

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I don't want to get anyone on the wrong foot, may be the doctor will be interested and want to follow my progress for his own reasons???

This might be a good approach. You don't need to be creating useless confrontation, but if you can pique his interest you may have an opening. If you see him on a regular basis, and have periodic tests for your issues, he will see the improvement. Not saying even that will convince him, but it might give him pause. Let us know if you take that route. It will be interesting to see what happens. :)

 

[mugatea]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I don't like coming on here and complaining. But I've upped my ox bile and I still have the squirts. I'm talking patting myself dry rather than wiping cause of arse chaffing. I take about 4-5 ox biles alongside a couple of betaines per meal, few bits of bacon/small steak and a fatbomb, twice daily.

So should I up my ox bile more until it clears up? I been doing keto for 5-6 weeks now.

Jamie