Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Gwenllian]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The issue I'm having is not making any strength gains. I lift the same amount with the same difficulty every week for most exercises. I feel my general fitness is just not as good as it used to be even while eating pasta, milk, protein shakes etc. I am not as strong as I was back when I was eating this stuff, and it feels like more of an effort in general to just ride to work or into town.

I will continue with low protein for more weeks and see if things stabalise. Only in the past few days I realised I was still eating well over 40g of protein at breakfast, which made me hungry by 11am and without much energy all day. I've reduced the breakfast protein to around 25g and I feel much better and virtually not hungry throughout the day. I can certainly confirm Laura's comments about more protein making you more hungry, this is something I have observed time and time again.

I experienced the same thing. Felt just too weak to ride my bike into town. That did change after a while. I feel more energetic and I also feel better after cycling into town and back home again (about forty minutes in total). It does help when it is not windy. ;)

I have been pretty strict with regard to protein. And almost never exceed the 25 grammes, unless I forget, which is hardly ever anymore. But I am still hungry after 25 grammes. I have this lovely sheep sausage (about 350 grammes) which I cut in half and eat during breakfast and lunch. I have started drinking one cup of coffee a day in the morning with three tablespoons of ghee. That helps, but only for a while. And I will stop drinking coffee, because I can feel my blood sugar rising and it is not pleasant.
It could be that I still suffer from cravings and/or because I am a home-maker and move around quite a bit. I will see what happens when I cut down all the carbs. Yesterday I had one or two teaspoons of dessert and the xylitol had me reeling. I love the taste, but not its effect on me.

What I meant to ask: 25 grammes of protein for each meal. Do they mean raw or cooked? Because the difference between raw and cooked meat is considerable?

 

[Gwenllian]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Made my second batch of bone broth. Used a crockpot this time, filled it full of beef bones, and added just enough water to cover them. Put in about 2 tablespoons of apple cider vinagar and cooked it for 24 hours.

The result when it cooled was about a half-inch of hardened white fat on the top, and liquid brown broth underneath that. No gel.

There was a lot of meat on the bones, so I'm guessing I need better marrow bones with less meat left on them.

Hi Mrs. Peel,

I made some bone broth yesterday with only a tiny bone (shank) and quite a bit of meat on it, but I could still see the gelatine. Or that is what I think I saw. :/

 

[Gwenllian]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

When I think how much smarter I could be if I hadn't killed off all those brain cells with "do-it-yourself shock therapy", it just makes me sick!

Yes, imagine.
I have wondering about that, actually. It seems a miracle to me that with all your health issues and the evil foods you were eating that you could still see the big picture and come to conclusions that no one else was able to draw. So, your mind was already exceptional, even though you killed off all these brain cells.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

You'll have to consider 25 grams of protein of what you eat, in that case it would be cooked.

What low carb researcher (Stephen Phinney) found was that 1.5 grams per kilo of ideal body weight was what was needed for endurance exercise, like bike racers and the like. It was about 15% of their caloric intake and 85% was from fat. So if you are not a bike racer, yeah, 0.8 to 1 grams of protein per kilo should do.

Here is the paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15507148

In contrast to aerobic exercise, resistance training builds lean mass, but as we have seen in this thread, the implications are far more than just that. Resistance training minimizes and even reverses mitochondrial dysfunction. It also induces mitochondrial biogenesis – a process where new mitochondria are formed within the cell, and it does it not only in the muscles, but in the brain, kidney, fat tissue and liver as well. See for instance here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Skeletal%20muscle%20and%20beyond%3A%20the%20role%20of%20exercise%20as%20a%20mediator%20of%20systemic%20mitochondrial%20biogenesis.

Increasing evidence now suggests that exercise can induce mitochondrial biogenesis in a wide range of tissues not normally associated with the metabolic demands of exercise. Perturbations in mitochondrial content and (or) function have been linked to a wide variety of diseases, in multiple tissues, and exercise may serve as a potent approach by which to prevent and (or) treat these pathologies. In this context, the purpose of this review is to highlight the effects of exercise, and the underlying mechanisms therein, on the induction of mitochondrial biogenesis in skeletal muscle, adipose tissue, liver, brain, and kidney.

The implications here are enormous! By exercising our muscles, we have the potential to not only reverse aging and brain-related diseases such as dementia which are characterize by mitochondrial dysfunction, but as we have already saw, mitochondrial dysfunction is the final step in ALL diseases. In fact, by making new mitochondria, there is a remodeling of entire networks of mitochondria. New mitochondria merge with old ones, leading to elimination of damaged or dysfunctional mitochondria through mitophagy (mitochondrial autophagy). This dynamic process of replacing old unhealthy mitochondria with new healthy mitochondria underscores the enhanced quantity and quality of mitochondria with exercise training.

While there are benefits with aerobic exercise training in mitochondrial function, these typically disappear and reverse with detraining. Furthermore, aerobic training has been shown to not change the number of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). On the other hand, resistance training activates proliferation of new cells in the muscle as a consequence of fiber injury, and the level of mutations in mtDNA in these new cells is lower than the one already present in muscle fiber cells. Hence, when there is fusion between the new and the old, there is a shift towards the new low level in mutation in mtDNA and mitophaghy of the old dysfunctional ones. This leads to mitochondrial healing. Typically 12 to 14 weeks are needed to see these results even though we all have noticed positive results with the first few sessions. Others have noticed results in their muscle mass with the ketogenic diet alone. So much for muscle wasting on protein restriction on a ketogenic diet! In fact, as long as there is optimized mineral intake (bone broth!), protein restriction is not a problem.

As far as resistance training goes, there are several ways to do it. But as a general rule, brief bouts of peak anaerobic exertion are far better for your overall health, including that one of your cardiopulmonary system. It is important to remember that more is not better when it comes to resistance training, it is the quality what makes the whole difference.

The muscles in the abdomen (rectus and transverse abdominis, internal and external obliques, and pyrimidalis) are the foundation for nearly every movement you do. So try to make an effort to strengthen your abdominals when you do resistance training.

Exercising no more than 20 minutes and focusing on brief bouts of significant anaerobic exertion, interspersed with brief periods of recovery at a slower pace that will allow you to return to resting heart rate should do it. It can be done using kettle-bells, weights, or elastic bands. Following these brief bouts of significant anaerobic exertion, critical building and rebuilding mechanisms takes place over the next day or two. So after 20 minutes of brief sprouts of exertion plus recovery time in between, allow at least 2 days of down time to recover and build-up your strength and muscles. Drink your bone broth within an hour before or after exercising, as it will help you preserve muscle mass.

If you don’t have access to gym equipment, you can get a set of resistant bands whose tension can provide from a few pounds up to 312 pounds depending on the type of set you get. You can carry easily anywhere you go and depending on how creative you are, you can make up over 100 different muscle work outs with it.

I've got something like this:

But there are hardcore ones (300 pounds of resistance) with fail-safe systems in case it snaps. It is practical if you travel a lot. I've made up so many routines that I lost count, but I'm concentrating in a few ones that seem to work the best for me. Here is a demo video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdkePaX3pow

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

You'll have to consider 25 grams of protein of what you eat, in that case it would be cooked.

What low carb researcher (Stephen Phinney) found was that 1.5 grams per kilo of ideal body weight was what was needed for endurance exercise, like bike racers and the like. It was about 15% of their caloric intake and 85% was from fat. So if you are not a bike racer, yeah, 0.8 to 1 grams of protein per kilo should do.

Very interesting Psyche! But how would you go around estimating the amount of protein and fat after the meat has been cooked? I guess it would depend on a series of factors ranging from the method of cooking to the oil/fats used etc. I also read about the process of denaturation of proteins when cooked:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_%28biochemistry%29

When a protein is denatured, the secondary and tertiary structures are altered but the peptide bonds of the primary structure between the amino acids are left intact. Since all structural levels of the protein determines its function, the protein can no longer perform its function once it has been denatured. This is in contrast to intrinsically unstructured proteins, which are unfolded in their native state, but still functionally active.

How denaturation occurs at levels of protein structure

Tertiary structure denaturation involves the disruption of:

• Covalent interactions between amino acid side-chains (such as disulfide bridges between cysteine groups)
• Noncovalent dipole-dipole interactions between polar amino acid side-chains (and the surrounding solvent)
• Van der Waals (induced dipole) interactions between nonpolar amino acid side-chains.

In secondary structure denaturation, proteins lose all regular repeating patterns such as alpha-helices and beta-pleated sheets, and adopt a random coil configuration.

Primary structure, such as the sequence of amino acids held together by covalent peptide bonds, is not disrupted by denaturation.

Would that also have any relevant effect on protein intake?

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Unfortunately, we have only rough guides, typically the ones of the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference. Unless I missed something.

If you have a fatty meat cut, it would have less protein, so it will be only approximations. 3 ounces of meat would be like 21 grams of protein. 3 ounces is typically the size of your palm. This cut is perfect:

It has about 3 ounces of meat and the rest is gorgeous fat! :)

As for denatured protein, I think the most important thing is to avoid "chemical orgy". Overcooked charcoaled meat is tough because its fat, protein and sugar molecules (yes, there are also minimal amounts of carbs in meat) get tangled up and fused together in what Catherine Shanahan calls a “wild, heat-crazed chemical orgy.” This is a little bit harder to digest to say the least, but the worst part is that for the most part its nutrients get lost. Dr. Shanahan says,

When heat kills nutrients, it does so by causing reactions between nutrients, forming new chemical compounds including known carcinogens (such as aromatic hydrocarbons and cyclic amines), as well as other molecular fusions that damage your kidneys and blood vessels.

When it comes to meats that require thorough cooking, then slow cooking is the best way to go. Not only will the meat taste better, it will have far better nutrition. If you are cooking in the oven, the surrounding fat allows for the meat moist to stay in which will result in a nutritious and flavorful cooked meat. The saturated fat will also protect other vulnerable nutrients. Organic animal foods have higher omega 3 contents, but since it is a vulnerable fat, the highly stabilizing saturated fat of the animal should be available in order to reap its good effects. Otherwise it will just burn and get oxidized.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Exercising no more than 20 minutes and focusing on brief bouts of significant anaerobic exertion, interspersed with brief periods of recovery at a slower pace that will allow you to return to resting heart rate should do it.

I thought I would add Mark Sisson's comment on how much a "significant anaerobic exertion" is, which has to do with what Ailén was doing:

When you exercise a muscle to short-term exhaustion at 12 reps or deliver a max effort for 10 pull-ups, you’d be surprised what your body can do two minutes later if you repeat the effort.

So yeah, maximum effort or at least go for an 8 effort on a 10 scale.

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Unfortunately, we have only rough guides, typically the ones of the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference. Unless I missed something.

If you have a fatty meat cut, it would have less protein, so it will be only approximations. 3 ounces of meat would be like 21 grams of protein. 3 ounces is typically the size of your palm. This cut is perfect:

[...]

It has about 3 ounces of meat and the rest is gorgeous fat! :)

Wish I could find a cut with that much fat! The best I can find has about 1/4 of fat which is still ok but it doesn't allow me to regulate my protein/fat ratio as much as I'd like to so I have to be careful with how much meat I eat. At least the bone broth allows me to increase my fat intake as I tend to add a generous spoonful of lard :D

As for denatured protein, I think the most important thing is to avoid "chemical orgy". Overcooked charcoaled meat is tough because its fat, protein and sugar molecules (yes, there are also minimal amounts of carbs in meat) get tangled up and fused together in what Catherine Shanahan calls a “wild, heat-crazed chemical orgy.” This is a little bit harder to digest to say the least, but the worst part is that for the most part its nutrients get lost. Dr. Shanahan says,

When heat kills nutrients, it does so by causing reactions between nutrients, forming new chemical compounds including known carcinogens (such as aromatic hydrocarbons and cyclic amines), as well as other molecular fusions that damage your kidneys and blood vessels.

When it comes to meats that require thorough cooking, then slow cooking is the best way to go. Not only will the meat taste better, it will have far better nutrition. If you are cooking in the oven, the surrounding fat allows for the meat moist to stay in which will result in a nutritious and flavorful cooked meat. The saturated fat will also protect other vulnerable nutrients. Organic animal foods have higher omega 3 contents, but since it is a vulnerable fat, the highly stabilizing saturated fat of the animal should be available in order to reap its good effects. Otherwise it will just burn and get oxidized.

Yes, I slow cook my food to get the most nutrients out of it though I have to fry my meat as I don't have an oven.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The result when it cooled was about a half-inch of hardened white fat on the top, and liquid brown broth underneath that. No gel.

Was that after you had left it in the fridge to cool overnight?

Yes, I'd left it out to cool enough to put it in the fridge, and I did stir it. The fat started to separate even before I put it in the fridge.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have started drinking one cup of coffee a day in the morning with three tablespoons of ghee. That helps, but only for a while. And I will stop drinking coffee, because I can feel my blood sugar rising and it is not pleasant.

You are shooting yourself in the foot with coffee. Have black tea with ghee. Coffee has similar effects on the body as gluten.

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have started drinking one cup of coffee a day in the morning with three tablespoons of ghee. That helps, but only for a while. And I will stop drinking coffee, because I can feel my blood sugar rising and it is not pleasant.

You are shooting yourself in the foot with coffee. Have black tea with ghee. Coffee has similar effects on the body as gluten.

Is green tea good as well? I stopped drinking black tea as I thought I was taking in too much caffeine (I drink 4-6 cups daily).

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Green tea is okay. It is the coffee which has opioid activity and other properties which makes it not worth it.

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Green tea is okay. It is the coffee which has opioid activity and other properties which makes it not worth it.

Thanks Psyche. Glad to hear that. Reminds when, until recently, I was regularly drinking cappuccinos and lattes with a spoonful of sugar . I didn't even like them that much.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi Mrs. Peel,

I made some bone broth yesterday with only a tiny bone (shank) and quite a bit of meat on it, but I could still see the gelatine. Or that is what I think I saw. :/

Hi Mariama,

I made a batch using the same kind of bone you mentioned (or so I think) and I found that it is less satisying than a broth made using a bunch of good bone marrows (bigger and fattier). Instead of using just one, maybe you can try using more of them to make a broth or ask a butcher if you can get bigger and fattier ones? Or maybe put it on for longer? I found that making a batch using these bones turned out really nice: _http://www.jerseyvleesbestellen.nl/Webwinkel-Product-10345439/Ros%C3%A9-Jersey-kalfschenkels-300-gr.html

Next time I will try adding these ones as well: _http://www.jerseyvleesbestellen.nl/Webwinkel-Product-11239364/Ros%C3%A9-Jersey-kalfsbotten-400-gr.html

The description says that one can make delicious sauces with the broth that turns out with these bones. But I'm gonna add the marrow bones to them for extra flavor.

A way you can see if your broth has a nice amount of gelatine, is to check whether your broth has turned into jelly in the fridge. If it still is kind of watery, it doesn't have much of it (which is what I saw using a tiny bone). Atleast that's how I understand it.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Max effort sounds sensible, but I heard that when you're straining against a weight and your arms start shaking, that you can damage your muscles. When I was lifting weights in HS, I would do this and I found my arms started wanting to jerk around whenever I needed to exert steady force.

When one is transitioning away from carbs, how do you know when to limit fiber intake? Is it better, when you get below 72 grams, to stick to things like yams to stay away from fiber? After all, 10g of veggies takes up a lot of volume and digestive space, more than the meat or fat if you're in early stages of carb adaption; it would seem to me this is a bad thing. IE, do you need veggies for some reason, or are there significant benefits to getting your carbs from things like yams instead...