Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Max effort sounds sensible, but I heard that when you're straining against a weight and your arms start shaking, that you can damage your muscles. When I was lifting weights in HS, I would do this and I found my arms started wanting to jerk around whenever I needed to exert steady force.

Well, some fiber injury is part of the process, it is the one reason why resistance training is better than aerobic exercise since it creates new cells with new mitochondrial with healthy mitochondrial DNA. But yeah, trade carefully, you can always go on a 7 or 8 effort in a 10 scale.

But some fiber injury = creation of new muscle cells. There is autophagy of the dysfunctional mitochondria and the new ones that are healthier prevail.

When one is transitioning away from carbs, how do you know when to limit fiber intake? Is it better, when you get below 72 grams, to stick to things like yams to stay away from fiber? After all, 10g of veggies takes up a lot of volume and digestive space, more than the meat or fat if you're in early stages of carb adaption; it would seem to me this is a bad thing. IE, do you need veggies for some reason, or are there significant benefits to getting your carbs from things like yams instead...

I would say that when you start to tolerate fat well you can cut down drastically on fiber. Add apple cider vinegar to your fatty meals, that will help you tolerate the fat. Add digestive enzymes and HCl if necessary.

I would definitely not eat yams since they are among the worst types of sugars and just makes carb cravings worse.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Dugdeep, I wasn't suggesting your reference to the coastal Scotts was wrong - I was just adding to it with what WAPF just published on the Highlanders. I should have noted that in the first place. :)

Sorry LQB. I have a program where I don't handle criticism well and from time to time that seems to also make me see criticism where none actually exists.
That article was extremely interesting, btw, so thanks for posting :)

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Working out at 80% weight of the maximum I can 'lift' seems to work best. Choosing the maximum weight you can lift 5-6 times x 5 series without failing and without getting overly tired but feeling to put force into it, seems to be the best work vs gain vs recovery deal, the nervous system gets overload if one gets to the 'fail' of the muscle taking much more time to recover and even receding previous 'gains' of strenght.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I also read about the process of denaturation of proteins when cooked:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturation_%28biochemistry%29

When a protein is denatured, the secondary and tertiary structures are altered but the peptide bonds of the primary structure between the amino acids are left intact. Since all structural levels of the protein determines its function, the protein can no longer perform its function once it has been denatured. This is in contrast to intrinsically unstructured proteins, which are unfolded in their native state, but still functionally active.

How denaturation occurs at levels of protein structure

Tertiary structure denaturation involves the disruption of:

• Covalent interactions between amino acid side-chains (such as disulfide bridges between cysteine groups)
• Noncovalent dipole-dipole interactions between polar amino acid side-chains (and the surrounding solvent)
• Van der Waals (induced dipole) interactions between nonpolar amino acid side-chains.

In secondary structure denaturation, proteins lose all regular repeating patterns such as alpha-helices and beta-pleated sheets, and adopt a random coil configuration.

Primary structure, such as the sequence of amino acids held together by covalent peptide bonds, is not disrupted by denaturation.

Would that also have any relevant effect on protein intake?

Keep in mind that we need to denature our proteins in order to digest them. Proteins are complicated structures made of chains of amino acids all folded and coiled in on themselves. In order to break them down into individual amino acids so that they can be absorbed, they need to first be 'unwound', so to speak, so that the digestive enzymes can break the polypeptide bonds between the amino acids. This is called 'denaturing' of proteins.

Cooking helps us do this because heat causes a certain amount of denaturing to occur. But what also does this is our stomach acid. Acidity is quite good at denaturing proteins, which is why we have such powerful acid in our stomachs. The acid helps to straighten out the bent and coiled amino acid chains so that the enzymes can get at the bonds between the amino acids and break them, so they can be absorbed.

Denaturing proteins doesn't affect how much protein you're ultimately getting. A denatured protein delivers the same amino acids as a non-denatured protein, it will just take more effort to digest it.

Here's a video on primary, secondary, tertiary and quaternary structure of proteins, if anyone is interested. It explains what these structures mean. Just keep in mind that, in order to digest these proteins, we need to break all these structures down first, through cooking and through the digestive process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNh0Km4bv18

Hope that's useful. I'm not sure if I'm just adding irrelevant information here, but I feel like it's useful to fill in some of the basic background info on some of this stuff in order to further understanding. Let me know if this is noise.

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Training to Failure
What the Hell Does it Mean?
by Matt Phelps, MS, CSCS

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/training_to_failure

CNS Overtraining
By Ozzy - Moderator and Contributor to MuscleTalk

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/article-cns-overtraining.aspx

Training to Failure: Part 1
http://jasonferruggia.com/training-to-failure-part-1/

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm sorry my latest post got separated from the previous one. It is a complement to that one.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Max effort sounds sensible, but I heard that when you're straining against a weight and your arms start shaking, that you can damage your muscles. When I was lifting weights in HS, I would do this and I found my arms started wanting to jerk around whenever I needed to exert steady force.

If you have been following this thread carefully, and reading the supplied papers, then you will know that damaging your muscles slightly is what you WANT to do because that is what activates the peripheral mtDNA.

Go back and start reading from the beginning.

When one is transitioning away from carbs, how do you know when to limit fiber intake? Is it better, when you get below 72 grams, to stick to things like yams to stay away from fiber? After all, 10g of veggies takes up a lot of volume and digestive space, more than the meat or fat if you're in early stages of carb adaption; it would seem to me this is a bad thing. IE, do you need veggies for some reason, or are there significant benefits to getting your carbs from things like yams instead...

Go back and read from the beginning.

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Working out at 80% weight of the maximum I can 'lift' seems to work best. Choosing the maximum weight you can lift 5-6 times x 5 series without failing and without getting overly tired but feeling to put force into it, seems to be the best work vs gain vs recovery deal, the nervous system gets overload if one gets to the 'fail' of the muscle taking much more time to recover and even receding previous 'gains' of strenght.

I suspect this is the mistake I was making, going to failure. I've read people saying it's good, but clearly doesn't work for me.

I will start a 5x5 program tomorrow with lower weight initially and go from there, seeing what the results are.

 

[Tomek]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Well, the bone broth is helping with the brain fog, for sure, but that's not quite "it" for now. I'm having two cup with butter per day, and I still need potassium and magnesium to keep the anxiety away. I may feel something slightly different in my thoughts, that's maybe what makes me anxious. I don't know. I'll rely on your posts, hoping to see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I don't know if this pyroluvia thing is serious, because I match almost every symptoms, and by taking a little bit more zinc and vitamin B6 than I used to, it also keeps the anxiety at bay.

Also, I'm having 3 lunchs per day, and I'm very hungry before the diner. Regarding my little excel table, I eat the appropriate quantity of proteins, and four time more fat in calories. And I didn't lost or gain any weight (I'm one of the skinnies).

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Working out at 80% weight of the maximum I can 'lift' seems to work best. Choosing the maximum weight you can lift 5-6 times x 5 series without failing and without getting overly tired but feeling to put force into it, seems to be the best work vs gain vs recovery deal, the nervous system gets overload if one gets to the 'fail' of the muscle taking much more time to recover and even receding previous 'gains' of strenght.

I suspect this is the mistake I was making, going to failure. I've read people saying it's good, but clearly doesn't work for me.

I will start a 5x5 program tomorrow with lower weight initially and go from there, seeing what the results are.

I think that's too much, FWIW. If you can do 3-5 repetitions at your maximum weight, and then lower it and do a few more (10-15), you'll be really exhausting your muscles after one minute. No need to overdo it, IMO. For some exercises, in order to do 25 reps you will need to lower the weight too much, which means that it could turn into a simple aerobic exercise. But maybe that's just me, and you have much more strength.

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Well, the bone broth is helping with the brain fog, for sure, but that's not quite "it" for now. I'm having two cup with butter per day, and I still need potassium and magnesium to keep the anxiety away. I may feel something slightly different in my thoughts, that's maybe what makes me anxious. I don't know. I'll rely on your posts, hoping to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You might just need some adaptation time. Why are you anxious? Maybe it doesn't have much to do with the diet, but more with something emotional, or with programs related to "not eating enough". Or maybe you haven't been on a good diet until now, and it's harder for you to transition?

Also, I'm having 3 lunchs per day, and I'm very hungry before the diner. Regarding my little excel table, I eat the appropriate quantity of proteins, and four time more fat in calories. And I didn't lost or gain any weight (I'm one of the skinnies).

You can have more bone broth. :)

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Working out at 80% weight of the maximum I can 'lift' seems to work best. Choosing the maximum weight you can lift 5-6 times x 5 series without failing and without getting overly tired but feeling to put force into it, seems to be the best work vs gain vs recovery deal, the nervous system gets overload if one gets to the 'fail' of the muscle taking much more time to recover and even receding previous 'gains' of strenght.

I suspect this is the mistake I was making, going to failure. I've read people saying it's good, but clearly doesn't work for me.

I will start a 5x5 program tomorrow with lower weight initially and go from there, seeing what the results are.

I think that's too much, FWIW. If you can do 3-5 repetitions at your maximum weight, and then lower it and do a few more (10-15), you'll be really exhausting your muscles after one minute. No need to overdo it, IMO. For some exercises, in order to do 25 reps you will need to lower the weight too much, which means that it could turn into a simple aerobic exercise. But maybe that's just me, and you have much more strength.

Sorry, I meant 3x5 . I wish I had that much strength!

My tentative conclusion now is I've currently been doing too much weight, without perfect form and exhausting myself too much with eccentric repetitions, as I'm clearly still programmed by bodybuilding culture somewhat. The full body workout 3x per week with lower weights (but still significantly heavy) may be the way to go to reap optimal benefits from resistance training in terms of mitochondrial changes and overall health. It certainly seems to be working for you guys at least.

Anyway, time for me to stop overthinking this and get on with some experimentation :)

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I think that's too much, FWIW. If you can do 3-5 repetitions at your maximum weight, and then lower it and do a few more (10-15), you'll be really exhausting your muscles after one minute. No need to overdo it, IMO. For some exercises, in order to do 25 reps you will need to lower the weight too much, which means that it could turn into a simple aerobic exercise. But maybe that's just me, and you have much more strength.

Yes probably too much in an initial stage. I used to work to the failure of the muscle without progress over many months, then switched to 5 or 6x5 lowering the weight and with at least 2 minutes rest between sets or until I'm totally confortable to do another set and never exceeding 5 minutes of rest (maybe too much also )

I drawed my basic guide lines: Low number of repetitions, up the weight to +/-80% of maximum muscle capability (or whatever gives resistance yet controled, varies from person to person), never to exhaustion, rest until ready to apply the same amount of force x times again, if weight feels light: time to up it!

Maybe these will serve someone else.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Working out at 80% weight of the maximum I can 'lift' seems to work best. Choosing the maximum weight you can lift 5-6 times x 5 series without failing and without getting overly tired but feeling to put force into it, seems to be the best work vs gain vs recovery deal, the nervous system gets overload if one gets to the 'fail' of the muscle taking much more time to recover and even receding previous 'gains' of strenght.

I suspect this is the mistake I was making, going to failure. I've read people saying it's good, but clearly doesn't work for me.

I will start a 5x5 program tomorrow with lower weight initially and go from there, seeing what the results are.

I think that's too much, FWIW. If you can do 3-5 repetitions at your maximum weight, and then lower it and do a few more (10-15), you'll be really exhausting your muscles after one minute. No need to overdo it, IMO. For some exercises, in order to do 25 reps you will need to lower the weight too much, which means that it could turn into a simple aerobic exercise. But maybe that's just me, and you have much more strength.

Sorry, I meant 3x5 . I wish I had that much strength!

My tentative conclusion now is I've currently been doing too much weight, without perfect form and exhausting myself too much with eccentric repetitions, as I'm clearly still programmed by bodybuilding culture somewhat. The full body workout 3x per week with lower weights (but still significantly heavy) may be the way to go to reap optimal benefits from resistance training in terms of mitochondrial changes and overall health. It certainly seems to be working for you guys at least.

Anyway, time for me to stop overthinking this and get on with some experimentation :)

Another way of doing the exercises is to slow them down dramatically.

I do this routine at the monent:
* knee-bends: down on one leg over 10 seconds, up on both legs over 10 seconds, 6 reps, each side.
* push-ups: down completely off the ground, up on the knees, over 10 sec each, 6 reps
* wide push-ups: same as above, works different muscles
* then I repeat these 4 sets, but this time only with 4 reps

Over time I will increase the reps or make it harder, also I think that in a little while I will invent another routine to not let the body settle into a routine, which IMO reduces the benefits over time.

 

[hesperides]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I´ve started 2 weeks ago some light 2,3 kgs kettlebells workout, which means I´m more likely still doing aerobic exercises and maybe I further will be able switching on the anaerobic one. But for the moment, I´m very cautious to not causing more joints harm caused by the underlying arthrosis and therefore won´t go cold turkey into any workout. During these past months, while I was reading all the papers and related comments on the subject, I thought this couldn´t be good for me, but after a while I picked two 700 grs. candle plates in each hand and started pulling up my arms several times. In spite of some uncomfortable sensations in my shoulders while doing it, I was surprised at the wellbeing flooding all over my body and mood immediately after stopping this exercise that lasted for several hours and thought I was willing giving it a try. Now I´m going to buy the resistance strips suggested by Psyche, as I think they act more smoothly on the articulations than kettlebells, which anyway don´t make its whole pretended job unless it shows a min. weight of some 5 kgs. so as to engage whole body strength. The Holly Daily Broths are also incredibly increasing my strength and focus, and what not!