Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've been losing hair on this protocol, too, but I've chalked it up to bodily stress associated with the transition. I doubt it's a thyroid issue as I'm showing no other symptoms (my body temperature is running warm, no coldness in extremities etc.), [...]

Same here. What I've been doing is to cut my hair (which it really needed), and applied some organic henna on it. I also moisturize it currently with coconut oil, since the cold weather dries it out if I don't. Having done all this, my hair loss has decreased. I also think it could mainly be bodily stress. Interesting to note that it did start when I decreased my protein levels (which can act as a stress factor). It may also be due to lack of omega 3s, so I'll be doing some experimenting here and there and continue to observe what works. I haven't seriously started the resistance training yet, so I can't say it's due to that. I did do some kettlebell exercises in the beginning, but wasn't noticing any (over-the-top) hair loss at that time.

I also don't have any other symptoms and seem to be doing well overall.

Just in the interest of full disclosure, however, I don't seem to be having bowel movements anymore, or at least they're so infrequent that they're beyond two week intervals. At two weeks, so far, I've become impatient and given myself an enema instead of waiting it out.

Why getting impatient? I've been experiencing the same since I've started low-carb, I think it's due to, as Laura said once, foods being digested much more efficiently. Basically meaning as Laura put it that more nutrients are being taken out of it, less waste etc. Sometimes I have bowel movements once a month or every 3 weeks. So if it isn't uncomfortable for you, then you could just allow your gut and body to do the work and to tell you whenever you need to go, i.e. when the food is totally utilized.

I don't feel the least bit constipated, but I wonder if this is good for me. With everyone else here talking about diarrhea/baby poo type symptoms, I thought I should report my own since I seem the complete opposite. I'm wondering if I should add a veg or two here or there to get a bit of fibre going through the system. Maybe nuts? Before dropping protein I was at zero carb for over a year and I was still "going", although it was also quite infrequent (once or twice a week, maybe). Maybe my system is just really slow.

Evil fiber?? I don't think you need that. Mine isn't baby poo or diarrhea either, I have noted that I actually only get that when I eat too much fat or eat too late in the evening. If I keep the protein/fat ratio somewhat balanced, my bowel movements have a good consistency. We all may be at different stages of adaptation, so we don't all need to experience the same thing, so maybe if you want you could just continue to observe and keep doing your thing and to adjust when needed. Hope this helps.

 

[clearmiddle]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Just in the interest of full disclosure, however, I don't seem to be having bowel movements anymore, or at least they're so infrequent that they're beyond two week intervals. At two weeks, so far, I've become impatient and given myself an enema instead of waiting it out. I don't feel the least bit constipated, but I wonder if this is good for me. With everyone else here talking about diarrhea/baby poo type symptoms, I thought I should report my own since I seem the complete opposite. I'm wondering if I should add a veg or two here or there to get a bit of fibre going through the system. Maybe nuts? Before dropping protein I was at zero carb for over a year and I was still "going", although it was also quite infrequent (once or twice a week, maybe). Maybe my system is just really slow.

Not everyone. It's a very easy subject to skip, especially when there is nothing happening. It's taken several descents down to ~0 carbs (I should really say zero fiber, because with foods like liver in my diet I never quite hit zero carbs) to get this to settle down, but this time I am down there and "moving" too. But with zero plant material going in, there is hardly anything to go out so naturally not much comes out.

At this point I have a choice: I can go a few days at a time and "save up" or I can try to keep it daily. My "gut feeling," especially in light of the warnings in Fiber Menace about straining, is that it is safer and healthier to "save up." Remember, the people that told us we need to be "regular" (anywhere from 1-2 times a day, up) also told us we needed oodles of fiber. They simply don't know anything about what happens when there is no fiber going in because virtually nobody tries it. The more I see the evidence for this "warning -- don't try this at home" fear business, the more suspiciously deliberate it appears.

I made an exception last week when I came down with a sinus infection. I had a little fiber, a few carbs, and some supplements (VC, NAC) for a week to help with the detox. I fought off the infection in two days, and it took about a week to clear out the residue.

If there is any truth to the warnings about zero carb diets I guess we will know soon enough, and we might have to make adjustments if we encounter micronutrient deficiencies. The Inuit probably didn't get it right on the first try either (although they had their specific nutrient-rich fat and organ meat sources). In the mean time I am feeling pretty good. My energy is as good as ever for me, and I have extra at times. My lower gut is a bit sore, but that seems to be slowly settling down. Moving ahead with caution...

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just in the interest of full disclosure, however, I don't seem to be having bowel movements anymore, or at least they're so infrequent that they're beyond two week intervals. At two weeks, so far, I've become impatient and given myself an enema instead of waiting it out.

Why getting impatient? I've been experiencing the same since I've started low-carb, I think it's due to, as Laura said once, foods being digested much more efficiently. Basically meaning as Laura put it that more nutrients are being taken out of it, less waste etc. Sometimes I have bowel movements once a month or every 3 weeks. So if it isn't uncomfortable for you, then you could just allow your gut and body to do the work and to tell you whenever you need to go, i.e. when the food is totally utilized.

While that may be true in general, I think two weeks without a bowel movement is definitely extreme and I'd also use an enema in that situation. My digestion has never become 'slowed down' as described by several of you, even at zero carbs I still 'go' if not every day then every 1.5 days at an absolute minimum, but usually every day though the quantity is smaller. So, something else might be going on there for those of you who aren't 'moving', especially for longer periods of time. fwiw.

 

[Ollie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

... My digestion has never become 'slowed down' as described by several of you, even at zero carbs I still 'go' if not every day then every 1.5 days at an absolute minimum, but usually every day though the quantity is smaller. So, something else might be going on there for those of you who aren't 'moving', especially for longer periods of time. fwiw.

That has been my experience too, sometimes going many times a day with very, very small quantities. Depending on the amount of Vit C I take and evening Magnesium, and, on the days when it is greater, these may include 'more usual sizes', larger quantities, too. For me, possibly a maximum of two days if it's not every day.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

While that may be true in general, I think two weeks without a bowel movement is definitely extreme and I'd also use an enema in that situation. My digestion has never become 'slowed down' as described by several of you, even at zero carbs I still 'go' if not every day then every 1.5 days at an absolute minimum, but usually every day though the quantity is smaller. So, something else might be going on there for those of you who aren't 'moving', especially for longer periods of time. fwiw.

I see! Hmmm I wouldn't know what it could be. Maybe I do need some more fat or more bone broth, I'll do some experimenting and see how it goes with the frequency of bowel movements.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just thought I would mention that I lost a LOT of hair when I separated from my ex husband. I also can see, looking back, that I was in the very early stages of menopause that took about 6 years to finish. And I mean, it came out in handfuls! It has never grown back, either. Only thing that saved me was that I had super thick and heavy hair to begin with. Now I have pretty much a normal head of hair, but it is "thin" to me because of what I was used to having. I was 44 at the time.

I began to lose some hairs (more than unusual) at first lightly when my Dad died on March 2010, and secondly increased when my son had a brain tumor on March 2011. It increased more on last February or I was able to notice a phenomenal acceleration of hair losses. Some of the Moderators here maybe will remember what I am talking about on last February event to me, in connection with the forum which let me totally lost emotionally speaking and for several days. If not and as I do not know if I can talk of this here, please let me know if I should be clearer.

By the way, I made some searchs and found than in the Chinese medicine, it is said that hairs are in connection with kidneys, which are themselves in connection with the fear. I clearly was afraid at this time, no doubt. And maybe this three events, which can indubitably generated by the unconscious fears, that let me understood it certainly had nothing to do with Thyroid. I do not have any others symptoms and noone in my family have ever had some problems of thyroid, ever. I thought it could be, by knowing the link between them, but I am pretty sure it has to do with emotional states, three times in succession... FWIW.

Thus, I got away them, twice, on June and on August from the full moon (in case of) and what I also note it is that today, those who stay are finer, more fragile and more breakable. I also proceeded to masks in the coconut oil (given that I do not swallow it any more, has it to be of use to something), but the daily quantity did not decrease for all that. Given that I am 47 years old, I suppose that I am approaching the menopause and that this factor besides the emotional factors shared above have to play a role. Fortunately, I initially had a super thick and heavy too. I pay attention on them but without let me invade by fear to lose them all. I think I had enough fears.

[...]
The last couple of days the hairloss seems to be slowing down, as I think I'm starting to adapt more.

These last days my hairloss seems to be slowing down too, and as you, I thought it could be an effect of KD and its process of regeneration. I also increased the quantity of fat I eat from 2 weeks and by using cold shower each day now, it also could help hairs who looks prefer it than hot water.

As update I also would like to share than after have lost some weight at the beginning of the KD (48-->46 kg), I got back them from 2 weeks and all seems stable now. Without increase meat or add anything else, except more fat. My diet is always the same each day, no carb, very few proteins and a lot of fat, fat and fat. And to be more specific, I also take magnesium malate and potassium each evening before to go to bed. And nothing else as complement. And my big glass of cold water with Celtic Sea salt twice a day.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

About the lack of bowel movements:

I just wanted to say, just in case it might help, that back when I was breastfeeding and that my daughter was not yet getting anything else than my milk, she stopped having bowel movements for weeks. As a young mother, I was really freaked out by this and so went to the pediatrician. He gave me glycerin suppositories and she would have a bowel movement as soon as they were used. But she kept not having any if I did not use them. The pediatrician then told me that it was rare (because most women do not breastfeed long enough: a few weeks, one or two months at most, apparently) but that at some point, the needs of the baby and what her mother's milk delivers (as we know, breast milk changes and adapts to them) really get in synch and that there is, literally, no 'waste' any more.

Could this also be the case with the keto with some people?

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Chris Kresser posted an article on nitrates today:

http://chriskresser.com/the-nitrate-and-nitrite-myth-another-reason-not-to-fear-bacon

It is something I have never really worried about as I don't often have to buy nitrate cured bacon, but his view is that there is no proof that they are harmful.

 

[clearmiddle]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Could this also be the case with the keto with some people?

Could. One thing that was confusing me was comments by Dr. Hyman and others that regular bowel movements were critical to detoxification. It goes with the "eat lots of fiber" idea, and with the "fiber sweeps toxins from your gut" myth that I learned from my vegan mentors.

What I find as I read about detoxification pathways is that the kidneys are where most of the junk ends up. The gut delivers toxins to the liver via the portal vein, and the liver recycles what it can. The lymphatic system is also involved. The cells use the nutrients that are produced, and the kidneys dispose of the rest.

Obviously the large intestine is involved in eliminating waste, but what I have been reading is that much of what it processes is the residue left over from eating plant materials. Stool is a mixture of that and bacteria.

I don't think that this is necessarily all there is to it, but I suspect that we are so saturated with the "must eat carbs" message that we worry when things start to work as they should.

 

[zim]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just thought I would mention that I lost a LOT of hair when I separated from my ex husband. I also can see, looking back, that I was in the very early stages of menopause that took about 6 years to finish. And I mean, it came out in handfuls! It has never grown back, either. Only thing that saved me was that I had super thick and heavy hair to begin with. Now I have pretty much a normal head of hair, but it is "thin" to me because of what I was used to having. I was 44 at the time.

Ok I´ll try to get a good doctor in my area that help me to find out my thyriod status, meanwhile it is good that I continue with KD?

If you do get a thyroid test, try to get a comprehensive one. Many doctors will only measure THS levels. You want T4 and T3 as well. Ideally also reverse T3, as this can be indirectly affected by a low carb diet.
Even if your thyroid is functioning perfectly well, if you are going to test it at least you'll get it properly done, and can more accurately exclude hypothesis.

I have done 3 test- t3 -t4 and tsh here it is the results:

T3: 55.1
T4: 5,91
TSH: 1,45

all normal.....

So the thyroid isn’t the problem of the hair loss, my estrogens and progesterone are with normal values too!!! So isn’t premenopausal either!

I began to lose some hairs (more than unusual) at first lightly when my Dad died on March 2010, and secondly increased when my son had a brain tumor on March 2011. It increased more on last February or I was able to notice a phenomenal acceleration of hair losses. Some of the Moderators here maybe will remember what I am talking about on last February event to me, in connection with the forum which let me totally lost emotionally speaking and for several days. If not and as I do not know if I can talk of this here, please let me know if I should be clearer.

By the way, I made some searchs and found than in the Chinese medicine, it is said that hairs are in connection with kidneys, which are themselves in connection with the fear. I clearly was afraid at this time, no doubt. And maybe this three events, which can indubitably generated by the unconscious fears, that let me understood it certainly had nothing to do with Thyroid. I do not have any others symptoms and noone in my family have ever had some problems of thyroid, ever. I thought it could be, by knowing the link between them, but I am pretty sure it has to do with emotional states, three times in succession... FWIW.

Thus, I got away them, twice, on June and on August from the full moon (in case of) and what I also note it is that today, those who stay are finer, more fragile and more breakable. I also proceeded to masks in the coconut oil (given that I do not swallow it any more, has it to be of use to something), but the daily quantity did not decrease for all that. Given that I am 47 years old, I suppose that I am approaching the menopause and that this factor besides the emotional factors shared above have to play a role. Fortunately, I initially had a super thick and heavy too. I pay attention on them but without let me invade by fear to lose them all. I think I had enough fears.

This year have been very stressful in many ways in my life and the last months had increased it, that plus a change in my diet lowing carbs maybe it was an impact in my system although I feel better because many symptoms disappear when I ate less carbs than when I increased it, but I do noted felt more tension in all my body that could explain the incredible hair loss, I’m just speculating here since there is no proof that my thyroid or hormones are functioning bad….


Edit=Quote

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just in the interest of full disclosure, however, I don't seem to be having bowel movements anymore, or at least they're so infrequent that they're beyond two week intervals. At two weeks, so far, I've become impatient and given myself an enema instead of waiting it out. I don't feel the least bit constipated, but I wonder if this is good for me. With everyone else here talking about diarrhea/baby poo type symptoms, I thought I should report my own since I seem the complete opposite. I'm wondering if I should add a veg or two here or there to get a bit of fibre going through the system. Maybe nuts? Before dropping protein I was at zero carb for over a year and I was still "going", although it was also quite infrequent (once or twice a week, maybe). Maybe my system is just really slow.

Same here... 7 to 10 days, generally. And then minimal volume.

I began an experiment about 5 days ago that I've been waiting to see how it goes before I report it. I you look at the coffee thread, you will see this:

And here is another:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler11.htm

MM: Recently at t-mag, there was some discussion regarding the negative effects that caffeine might have on insulin activity. What are your thoughts on this?

DE: The research he quoted is accurate but only under limited conditions. What needs disputing is the underlying philosophy. Insulin resistance has a negative connotation to it just like ketones because both conditions were first observed in diabetics and have been, ever since, considered very negative responses tied tightly to disease. It is one thing to study man the "carbohydrate-eater/diseased-man" and an entirely different thing to study man the "fat-eater/man-not-diseased." One cannot extrapolate the findings in one group to the other, yet it is done all the time. So now what would benefit one group is extrapolated to benefit the other. This is very poor science. It is likely that consuming caffeine along with carbs is a bad idea just as consuming carbs w/o caffeine is a bad idea. Of course, an even worse idea is to eat few carbs for a couple of days and then to load carbs for a few days, and, as well, to starve and then to eat a lot of food in one meal along with carbs. All of these are bad actions. But, on the other hand, if you consumed caffeine along with a low-carb diet, it would enhance the fat burning process, the ideal condition of man


In considering this, keep in mind what Dr. Hyman has pointed out above:

The truth is that not everyone responds to caffeine the same way. Some metabolize coffee differently than others. Our detoxification pathways are genetically determined. That is why some people have one cup in the morning and can’t sleep for days and others can have a double espresso after dinner and hit the pillow and fall into deep sleep.

The gene involved is called CYP1A2. You can get a lab test to find out if you have trouble detoxifying. The good news is some may be better than others at tolerating caffeine and may be able to enjoy that coffee.

Plus, there is the leaky gut issue. One needs to remove ALL such elements for a long period for gut healing to take place.

But, the bottom line is: perhaps coffee in moderation is okay for those people who STAY on the KD and who are already advanced in gut healing and healing of other conditions related to carb/grain/dairy/veggie consumption?

Just leaving it open.

So, I decided to use myself as an experimental subject (yeah, I was willing to fall on my sword!). Joking aside, since I was so sensitive to coffee that I had to quit cold turkey over 8 years ago, I figured that if there was anything really evil that my system would react pretty darn fast. But there was something else I was thinking: that coffee could be another carrier of a form of very rich fat: cream. It has to be pure cream because casein/lactose are still opiod type things. One article suggested that coffee was similar to gluten and was thus, purely evil, but as the above excerpt suggests, I'm not sure we really know that. Nobody has done any experiments from the keto-adapted state.

Soooo....

For the last five days I've been having about two cups of coffee in the morning only, about half and half mixed with pure cream.

The ONLY thing I have noted is that it seems to make my bowels mover about every other day instead of every week to week and a half.

Now, that could be what the Japanese doctor called "mild diarrhea" which he claimed was what milk products did to the colon, but I'm waiting to see.

Obviously, this should NOT be tried until a person has been Keto-adapted for a month or more and STAYS that way.

So PUHLEEEEEEEEEZE!!!

Coffee fiends (you know who you are), do NOT do this until you are WELL adapted and have had serious beneficial improvements in whatever condition you have been dealing with.

You have to first have a healed gut, a vigorous liver detox system to the point that you don't need vitamin C anymore because the other system has kicked in, and you have to have keto-adapted along with the mtDNA activation that comes with the serious resistance exercises over a month at LEAST. 6 to 8 weeks would be better.

Because, the fact is, having another source of pure fat that you can take in is a plus. You just don't want that fat leaking through your gut directly into your blood.

 

[clearmiddle]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...I began an experiment about 5 days ago that I've been waiting to see how it goes before I report it...

You were not entirely alone in coffee your experiment. I have been running one too. ;)

I was neither sensitive to nor addicted to caffeine to begin with, but I have been avoiding coffee for the most part on general principles, while at the same time noticing how totally undecided the paleo blogosphere is about it.

My experiment, going back a week or so, was to have a "limited amount" of coffee after breakfast (coffee on an empty stomach may not be a good thing). No coconut milk. Pasture butter, and a small amount of stevia (just enough to offset the bitterness) optional. No limit on butter, but usually less than a tablespoon -- I count it as part of the fat from my breakfast. Once, for the whole day.

What it seems to do is relieve constipation, as well as provide a mild stimulant effect that somehow helps with digesting the meal. I don't claim to know how or why. It seems to act like a dietary supplement -- a digestive aid!

I have experimented with the amount of coffee over a range of 10-20 ounces, and 10 ounces seems to be just about right. That's 10 ounces a day. Organic coffee from South America (supposedly the drier conditions on the mountain tops there might produce less mold toxin, but who knows).

 

[Z...]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I bet you enjoyed this experiment Laura :)
Does this mean once your system is running on optimal you can every now and then sin reasonably with something not so evil.
At this point the thought that I would never ever taste certain fruits ( at the moment grapes and pomegranates are in season) or have a slice of my favorite cake ( made only of chestnut puree, almonds and cream ) which I traditionally have only once a year when visiting home for Christmas, is extremely depressing :(

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Funnily enough, I also tried a coffee experiment today on my lunch break in work. For what it's worth (with my younger, less damaged and less sensitive body) I felt no ill effects, and did not get my usual reaction of extreme hyper, chatty, jumping around mood, followed by anxiety and shakiness. In fact I did not notice any effect apart from a bit of increased mental sharpness.

I will try again tomorrow and see how it goes. After such a long time without coffee I have stopped craving it completely, so this is not so exciting for me, but still worth looking into.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Funnily enough, I also tried a coffee experiment today on my lunch break in work. For what it's worth (with my younger, less damaged and less sensitive body) I felt no ill effects, and did not get my usual reaction of extreme hyper, chatty, jumping around mood, followed by anxiety and shakiness. In fact I did not notice any effect apart from a bit of increased mental sharpness.

I will try again tomorrow and see how it goes. After such a long time without coffee I have stopped craving it completely, so this is not so exciting for me, but still worth looking into.

Same here ... used to be an addict and now the prospect of reintroducing coffee into my diet leaves me indifferent. Also not sure what cream to use, as most cream still contains some degree of protein/ caseine.
Will try in a while maybe, but at the moment I am pretty happy the way I go. Bowel movements have also slowed down considerably (7 - 10 days), but are not hard. So as long as they are easily voided, I am not caring much.

I haven't really lost much hair .... cause they're almost all gone!

Thanks for the nitrate article, Carlisle, that's really good news! I was avoiding nitrites like hell, which was very difficult, putting cured meats out of my reach - sea salt cured meats are not vailable where I live. Will research that a bit more to be sure, but what he says makes sense.

Silverlining on the horizon ....