Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Miss.K]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'd like some advice on recommending material for people who are interested in knowing more about the way I eat...

You actually have a couple of choices there. You can recommend material that we use here that applies to the way you eat, or you can make other suggestions that might not be appropriate for you, now, but that might be more accommodating to people that are not on quite the same path and may not be open to the all potential issues associated with a strict, experimental diet. It depends on the individual, what you know about them and what you can learn by asking.

I agree that Primal Body, Primal Mind can be a good starting point for people looking for a lot of information that is not too technical. It doesn't, however, offer a great deal in the way of meal plans and detailed guidance about how to apply the information, things that are important to many people. That part is relegated to the appendices, and as Laura lamented earlier in the LWB topic, it is rather heavy on veggies. Nora offers a paleo cookbook recommendation, but it doesn't exactly jump out at you on the website so I am not sure how much of a recommendation it really is.

Personally, I have been recommending Diane Sanfilippo's Practical Paleo for people that just want to improve their diet and health. It offers good general background material and a variety of meal plans for people with different health issues, including a track for people that are pretty healthy to begin with. I have mostly heard good things about it (perhaps helping to explain its New York Times bestseller status), although one bit of feedback I have received is that some of the recipes can be a little hard for a beginning cook to follow. It has not been particularly helpful for me because I already had the background information and it doesn't fit all that well with the strict experimental diet that I am following. :) But then I was looking for a book to recommend for others, not another one for me to read.

Thanks Megan,

Yes it would depend what people are looking for. My sister was asking because she was seeing I had lost weight and she has been struggling with weight issues most of her adult life (following all the wrong advices, and with little or no result) and I thought that the Primal Body, Primal Mind might not give the best results, as it is heavy on veggies (for me the weight loss happened when almost only eating fatty pork, and it takes little adding of veggies to start gaining again)
Then a week ago I met a skinny hippie chick on the street when I was out searching for organic meet
(I just moved country and they don't seem to have heard of organic stuff here, -I got an allergic reaction when using non organic lard, my face would start itching right after eating, and I got blisters around my mouth, -I wonder if it can be GMO fed pigs or something as I never got allergic reactions from non organic lard back home, so now I eat a lot of seafood until I've found organic meat, and lard)
-Anyways the hippie chick said she had realized it wasn't good for her to eat wheat and dairy, and was almost only eating veggies, and was thinking of quitting meat entirely as well, but said she thought she felt better when eating some meat sometimes, and was interested in the benefits of eating meat, and I thought that Primal Body, Primal Mind might be interesting for her.

>Pew< it is a jungle, and most people (including me) don't have the time, or brains to do the proper study, seems as the way the world is, one has to know everything in order to do anything.
-I know I'm supposed to be getting smarter with the way I'm eating, but I can still read a page of the recommended diet threads, and basically not understand anything it says, -words like: hypoglycemia, GI tract, Metabolic syndrome, 0 to 50 g/d, and sentances like: A typical glucose response curve is a spread-out upside-down "U," weighted a bit to the left (there's your "spike"), to take a few from current page, just makes my brain crash and burn. I know there's not really much to do but look up anything I don't understand until I start to understand,.... >pew<

Still it has been good to apply the things I do understand, and thank you all for the efforts here, these threads have still been extremely helpful even though I don't understand much of what I read, some knowledge enters :)

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I think that part of the problem is that if you are looking at ethnic groups that haven't had much contact with civilisation that there is a wide range of nutritional strategies. Weston-Price found groups that almost exclusively eat fat and protein (and very little to no carbs), like the Inuit. He also found groups in the Amazon that eat a very high-carb diet. The interesting thing is, that in both groups the modern civilisatory diseases were equally absent.

The problem with this approach is that this may reflect a recent change, as humans migrated into the subtropics. I still think that the human body primarily evolved in a low-carb environment (similar to the Inuit) and that all of the other dietary changes came later.

Also of note is that a few hundred years ago people would have been exposed to much less toxic stuff that we have been in the last 50 - 100 years - pesticides, heavy metals, radioactive substances, hormones, but also stress (which some claim to be the true number one killer in our world).

To sum this up, I believe that looking at traditional societies might be interesting in itself, but doesn't really solve the question about how our ancestors evolved, because the window we have to look back into is too short. It seems to be a pivotal substance in the human body.

The best proof for me that humans must have evolved the way Laura has described in her recent post is the fact, that BOHB is such an efficient fuel and has many benefits in the body apart from just energy provision (potent antioxidant, maybe even confering longevity etc.).

 

[WIN 52]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Found an interesting article in the latest edition of the British Journal of Nutrition. While it doesn't deal with ketosis directly, it is about obesity and I thought I would post the abstract here. The reason is that many of us are taking Betaine HCl to supplement low levels of stomach acid, and it might be the case that betaine has other beneficial effects. I was unable to get the full article, so the only source I have is this abstract.

I have highlighted the pertinent sections.

(source: British Journal of Nutrition / Volume 109 / Issue 01 / January 2013, pp 43-49)

Betaine reduces the expression of inflammatory adipokines caused by hypoxia in human adipocytes

K. Ollia1 c1, S. Lahtinena1, N. Rautonena1 and K. Tiihonena1
a1 DuPont Nutrition and Health, Kantvik Active Nutrition, Sokeritehtaantie 20, FIN-02460 Kantvik, Finland

Abstract

Obesity is characterised by a state of chronic low-grade inflammation and the elevated circulating and tissue levels of inflammatory markers, including inflammation-related adipokines, released from white adipose tissue. The expression and release of these adipokines generally rises as the adipose tissue expands and hypoxic conditions start to develop within the tissue. Here, the effect of betaine, a trimethylglycine having a biological role as an osmolyte and a methyl donor, on the expression of inflammation-related markers was tested in human adipocytes under hypoxia. Differentiated adipocytes were cultivated under low (1 %) oxygen tension for 8–20 h. The expression of different adipokines, including IL-6, leptin, PPARγ, TNF-α and adiponectin, was measured by quantitative PCR by determining the relative mRNA level from the adipocytes. Hypoxia, in general, led to a decrease in the expression of PPARγ mRNA in human adipocytes, whereas the expression levels of leptin and IL-6 mRNA were substantially increased by hypoxia. The cultivation of adipocytes under hypoxia also led to a reduction in the expression of TNF-α mRNA. The results showed that hypoxia increased the relative quantification of leptin gene transcription, and that betaine (250 μmol/l) reduced this effect, caused by low oxygen conditions. Under hypoxia, betaine also reduced the mRNA level of the pro-inflammatory markers IL-6 and TNF-α. These results demonstrate that the extensive changes in the expression of inflammation-related adipokines in human adipocytes caused by hypoxia can be diminished by the presence of physiologically relevant concentrations of betaine.

Thanks for this!

I started taking Betaine HCL in 2007, recommended by an elderly Gentleman. I am 6' tall and at the time I weighed 275 lbs. I had no idea why it made me feel better and each time I would miss a few days things seemed to go backwards. This also began a dietary change where a reduction in breads, yeast and certain foods were recommended. These were parts of a parasite cleansing routine in which Betaine was an ingredient. I purchased the ingredients separately, continuing the regime and eliminating one ingredient at a time, till I found the Betaine was the ingredient that made me feel better. I also had to try various brands till I found one that had no side effects. I found the brand that was straight Betaine HCL(NOW brand) was the best. There are some out there with other things in them, which gave me negative results. I just used how my body felt as my guide.

I have dropped taking the Betaine for 6 months now. This article may explain what happened to me.(When I stopped taking it.) I am under some kind of idea that they didn't have this 10,000 years ago and if eating properly, one may not need it. Maybe I still need it. I will have to try taking it again at a reduced dosage 200mg/day. I was taking 600mg 3 times a day with meals for a couple of years (2009-2011).

Today, I weigh 180-185 lbs depending on my physical activity level. I eat bacon, butter & eggs for breakfast, sausage & butter for lunch and fasting and/or bone broth for dinner. My energy level, memory and thinking ability have improved quite a bit, as it was going in the wrong direction before this diet.

Suffering a paralyzing stroke in 2005 left me with no feeling in my right side and no movement for a couple of months, till I could get those neurons firing again. The good news is that the feeling has returned by at least 60-75% of what it was pre-stroke. My eyesight was going away before the stroke. Now, my eyesight is better than it was when I was in my 40's. This year I turned 60 and now I feel like I may make 120.(Not counting on this, but I do feel a whole lot better than I have for a long while.)

I now feel and look much better than I have for years. People I know can also see this change and they are now starting to be motivated by my witness. You can talk all you want, but people seem to be motivated by results.

I believe the posers who wrote the Bible knew about the benefits of pork/animal fat. With agenda, they attempted to wipe these facts out of History by making pork a forbidden meat for Jews. There was a lot of pork around when Jesus was young! I believe the ones in control don't want people to wake up. They were looking for people to obey them without rebellion, controlling this with our diet. Thanks to the "C's" I now have new perspective of what is written and can see past the agenda.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...>Pew< it is a jungle, and most people (including me) don't have the time, or brains to do the proper study, seems as the way the world is, one has to know everything in order to do anything.
-I know I'm supposed to be getting smarter with the way I'm eating, but I can still read a page of the recommended diet threads, and basically not understand anything it says, -words like: hypoglycemia, GI tract, Metabolic syndrome, 0 to 50 g/d, and sentances like: A typical glucose response curve is a spread-out upside-down "U," weighted a bit to the left (there's your "spike"), to take a few from current page, just makes my brain crash and burn. I know there's not really much to do but look up anything I don't understand until I start to understand,.... >pew<
...

Sorry, even when I have extra time as I have the last couple of weeks, it is a challenge for me to compose some of these posts, and I have been known to take shortcuts like leaving out pictures. How's this? (A spread-out upside-down "U," weighted a bit to the left!)

The upper curve indicates diabetes (IDDM=insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus). It was not as easy to find a hypoglycemic curve. This one shows a response for diabetes PLUS hypoglycemia (it's the one that dips below the baseline).

 

[Josi]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Also I was wondering if there is any way to make healthy mayonnaise, as I've been eating more seafood lately, and would like some extra fat?

Thanks

Here is a video showing how to make mayo- Healthy 4-Minute Mayo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv4y_spy6-g

 

[supriyanoel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I must not only be very mtDNA, challenged , but also not being as mindful as I ca be. Theres still a lot I don't know. Reading all the books and trying to get my body into ketosos is mind=boggling to me.Last night after finishing a fatty steak, probably WAY too much, I started feeling worse than I had earlier. In morning took supplements C,E, ALA.D,Zinc,fish oil,shake of hemp powder, banana, coconut milk and almonds. Then the steak. By night felt really sick,took some bone broth, went to sleep. Did not sleep well, as stomach was raw and sore. Upon awakening, had some distilled water bone both and was in severe pain. The kind where you call an ambulance. Funny I was elated to cancel my health insurance the day before. Thought ran through my head than NOW I would need to be hospitalized. I was to be in work in 2 hrs, and had to cancel, to the displeasure of many. I couldn't stand up. The pain was so bad I took a old Ambien that I had hardly used in the past, because I knew it would put me to sleep.I am reading for the second time since the 70's, "Operators and Things", by Barbara O'Brien. (A great read about manipulation and psyhcopathy) If I tell you a Hook Operator came in my room offering me a soothing means to an end I would of thought about it. Instead I prayed the POTS, and thought of that ambien. Although I probably was manipulated in my other ignorance's, concerning the diet. I am learning I looked at some earlier posts and one by Ailen struck me, as did many others.I must go to work tomorrow, or I want to, and am preparing what to do. I do need the energy, and am in a low ketosis state according to the strips. I think I am counting much on the broth to see me through. Does anyone know what those terrible pains and cramping are? I do take magnesium.I never want to be in that position again. I'd eat sugar if Id thought it helped. I've been off all for a month now. I will real as much of PBPM and LWB as I can. I am weak and feel depleted. Anything will be appreciated.

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I must not only be very mtDNA, challenged , but also not being as mindful as I ca be. Theres still a lot I don't know. Reading all the books and trying to get my body into ketosos is mind=boggling to me.Last night after finishing a fatty steak, probably WAY too much, I started feeling worse than I had earlier. In morning took supplements C,E, ALA.D,Zinc,fish oil,shake of hemp powder, banana, coconut milk and almonds.

That is a LOT of carbs. If you're going to do this, you can't be eating bananas and probably not almonds either, though that depends. We have stated repeatedly that if you don't read ALL of the information here on the diet and have a good grip on what you're doing and why, it's really best to not do anything because mixing carbs with a high fat diet can cause serious issues.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In morning took supplements C,E, ALA.D,Zinc,fish oil,shake of hemp powder, banana, coconut milk and almonds. Then the steak.

Wow ... that's quite a mix!

Have you done an elimination diet? You might well be allergic to one of these ingredients. My advice before embarking on a ketotic diet as such is to try to eliminate all foods you are allergic to. Stick to a few nutrients you think you tolerate well for 3 weeks and then gradually reintroduce foods every 3 days and note if something untoward happens (like these stomach cramps, but also other symptoms like bloating, changes in bowel movements, joint pain, dizziness, brain-fog etc.). Many people are allergic to coconut and almonds ...

Once you have established this baseline you might go on a gluten-free diet for a few weeks, then gradually and slowly reduce carbs until you are firmly in ketosis. And only then would I advocate to go as close to zero carbs as possible and to do this for a longer period of time (3 months or longer) to heal the gut.

You may already have done some of these things, but anyway ... hope that helps!

 

[supriyanoel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thank you both Anart and nickelbleu for getting back so quick, I think you know what I'm feeling. No coconut milk,bananas or almonds. As all I'm eating is meat and broth, I better go on that Ultra Simple. Its practically what I'm doing without these mentioned things. I don't think I can give up the bone broth, not that you said I should. The shake in the elimination diet should suffice. I will do anything suggested, by you two or a few others I trust.

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thank you both Anart and nickelbleu for getting back so quick, I think you know what I'm feeling. No coconut milk,bananas or almonds. As all I'm eating is meat and broth, I better go on that Ultra Simple. Its practically what I'm doing without these mentioned things. I don't think I can give up the bone broth, not that you said I should. The shake in the elimination diet should suffice. I will do anything suggested, by you two or a few others I trust.

Hi supriyanoel,

Once again, please follow anart's advice and read all the threads before making any big changes. The shake came along very early in the forum's diet research. As more information was gathered, it became clear it's incompatible with a KD. I don't think anyone is using it any more. It sounds like it was the carbs that got you into trouble. If you check the ingredients of the shake, you will see it is incredibly carb-heavy, plus the hemp powder has the additional problems of lectins and too much fibre.

Everyone on the KD is basically eating fat, meat and broth with generally good results. Just curious, but why do you feel you need the shake?

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I must not only be very mtDNA, challenged , but also not being as mindful as I ca be. Theres still a lot I don't know. Reading all the books and trying to get my body into ketosos is mind=boggling to me.Last night after finishing a fatty steak, probably WAY too much, I started feeling worse than I had earlier. In morning took supplements C,E, ALA.D,Zinc,fish oil,shake of hemp powder, banana, coconut milk and almonds. Then the steak. By night felt really sick,took some bone broth, went to sleep.

I'll say it again: READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE EXPERIMENTING WITH YOUR DIET!

Eating more fat while still eating a lot of carbs is a deadly mixture!!!!

I would ditch the shake, hemp powder, banana, coconut milk and almonds, all of which can trigger autoimmune reactions.

What part of eating restricted protein and fat - ONLY - is so hard to understand?

Did not sleep well, as stomach was raw and sore. Upon awakening, had some distilled water bone both and was in severe pain. The kind where you call an ambulance. Funny I was elated to cancel my health insurance the day before. Thought ran through my head than NOW I would need to be hospitalized. I was to be in work in 2 hrs, and had to cancel, to the displeasure of many. I couldn't stand up. The pain was so bad I took a old Ambien that I had hardly used in the past, because I knew it would put me to sleep.I am reading for the second time since the 70's, "Operators and Things", by Barbara O'Brien. (A great read about manipulation and psyhcopathy) If I tell you a Hook Operator came in my room offering me a soothing means to an end I would of thought about it. Instead I prayed the POTS, and thought of that ambien. Although I probably was manipulated in my other ignorance's, concerning the diet. I am learning I looked at some earlier posts and one by Ailen struck me, as did many others.I must go to work tomorrow, or I want to, and am preparing what to do. I do need the energy, and am in a low ketosis state according to the strips. I think I am counting much on the broth to see me through. Does anyone know what those terrible pains and cramping are? I do take magnesium.I never want to be in that position again. I'd eat sugar if Id thought it helped. I've been off all for a month now. I will real as much of PBPM and LWB as I can. I am weak and feel depleted. Anything will be appreciated.

You brought this on yourself by not having a clue about what you were doing.

READ THE THREAD.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I was surprised to read in this article on vitamin C the following:

Vitamin C and Your Immune System

http://www.sott.net/article/255742-Vitamin-C-and-Your-Immune-System

When white blood cells encounter pathogenic bacteria and viruses they must ingest or phagocytize these organisms in order to neutralize them. The phagocytic index measures how effective a particular white blood cell is at destroying viruses, bacteria & cancer cells. Elevated blood sugar impairs this phagocytic index. In fact, a blood sugar of 120 reduces the phagocytic index by 75%.

The only realistic way to keep blood sugar levels less than that all the time, even after eating, is with a ketogenic diet. Earlier this year I had a blood test done after eating eggs, bacon and drinking tea sweetened with stevia. My blood glucose level was of 90. I was surprised that it could still be so lowish considering that I just ate. That is good!

As the 6th day on the wagon, after falling off the wagon over the holidays, I find myself much better and stable mood-wise. I decided that I was going to take all my meals to my shift in order to avoid eating non-home made food. Even if I ate the same foods that I would have eaten outside, the sole fact that I made it myself made the WHOLE difference. I had mental clarity well until 5am when I finally went to bed, had no cravings and my tummy was well settled all the time.

I was told a celiac woman's story who was strictly gluten-free. Yet her anti-body markers were always positive despite the diet, meaning she was still getting some gluten into her system. After some detective work, it was determined that the culprit was her habit of re-heating her food in a public microwave where gluten foods were re-heated. After she stopped doing that, her markers became negative.

It is so difficult to keep a tab of all these factors when you eat outside that I pretty much decided to just eat what I prepare myself, at least every time when it is possible.

 

[Miss.K]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

>snip<

Sorry, even when I have extra time as I have the last couple of weeks, it is a challenge for me to compose some of these posts, and I have been known to take shortcuts like leaving out pictures. How's this? (A spread-out upside-down "U," weighted a bit to the left!)
>snip<

Thanks again Megan, though I'm afraid I'm beyond salvation with advanced stuff like that (to me it is like looking at a text in Chinese or Arab, and trying to make sense of what it says)

What part of eating restricted protein and fat - ONLY - is so hard to understand?

This is pretty easy for me to understand, but I too have gotten confused at times when reading outdated knowledge. (some months after starting eating fatty pork and ground elder, which I did after watching the Connecting the dots video on nutrition, I started to read Detox or die, and Life without bread threads and thought I should eat rice which I quickly found was a mistake)

I wonder if perhaps it would be a good idea to make a diet thread for dummies, with simple guidelines for simpleminded people, and put links to recommended diet threads saying "this is how the knowledge was found" or something like that?
One one hand I understand that it is important to know what one is doing, and that one will learn a lot from reading how the knowledge came about, on the other hand there's little time and much to understand, (and for many little money, so buying books with outdated knowledge might not be the best way to spend them) -so it might be good if one didn't have to go through all the outdated knowledge in order to get to the current knowledge and be able to start?

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

so it might be good if one didn't have to go through all the outdated knowledge in order to get to the current knowledge and be able to start?

"There is no free lunch" also applies here. You can't just start doing the ketogenic diet from zero. You can't pretend that you didn't spent your whole lifetime eating crap and getting exposed to the worst possible pollutants from our environment. One step a time. You might be surprised at your good pace once you start reading with an adventuring attitude and proceed with the diet experimentation and research. Or so it seems to me.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

so it might be good if one didn't have to go through all the outdated knowledge in order to get to the current knowledge and be able to start?

"There is no free lunch" also applies here. You can't just start doing the ketogenic diet from zero. You can't pretend that you didn't spent your whole lifetime eating crap and getting exposed to the worst possible pollutants from our environment. One step a time. You might be surprised at your good pace once you start reading with an adventuring attitude and proceed with the diet experimentation and research. Or so it seems to me.

I think it depends to some degree on how much outdated information we ask people to go through. Asking them to read the LWB and KD topics along with the associated books is no more than any of us has had to do. But when you consider the total sum of information -- current and outdated -- that the forum has to offer, I can see where there might be problems, especially if people go searching the forum as we direct them to do and land in the middle of a discussion about something we don't do anymore.

For that matter, the USD was still recommended for detox and elimination testing the last time I checked. It would be pretty easy to go from there to hemp shakes with bananas, for example, especially if you were reading a ton of material, here and on the EE website. I can't remember myself whether those shakes are still recommended somewhere or not, with or without bananas.

I am bringing this up for possible discussion -- I don't have any specific solution because I am not certain that it is even a problem. But I can suggest that, if it would help, the forum software has the option to assign different themes to different boards, which might be a way to mark certain areas as being "of historical interest," no matter what the path of entry. And if there is a need to review older material, that is something I think I could help with, if help is needed.

I remember being overwhelmed with material when I actively joined this forum 5 year ago. And I remember being overwhelmed with material when I encountered the cassiopaea.org website 10 years ago (with its light-on-dark text or whatever it was that made my eyes want to run away :)). And most if not all that material is still here, as far as I know, in addition to the newer information. It's a lot.