Learning a new language: how to go about it?

[Dirgni]

I started learning English at school but the texts in the books were boring and quite useless for everyday situations when visiting the country. It was mostly about school system in UK and US and what the kids do. The only text that interested me were texts with some history snippets, but I am interested in history. At school a lot of the focus was on grammar, but I was never really interested in those grammar rules in any language. And nobody ever told me how to do the learning part. I learned poems and vocabulary more or less the same way. I put a paper over the words I tried to learn and tried to remember. Each word on a page got the same time - the ones I already know and the others I did not learn well. This was a very time-consuming ineffective way.

As an adult I started learning French for about a year and later Spanish. These lessons started with tourist situations about introducing myself, shopping food and other things, in a hotel, eating in a restaurant, asking the way, etc. I visited France with French knowledge of about 6 months learning and was able to use it in tourist situations. I visited England with knowledge of about 6 years school English and in tourist situations I wasn't prepared so good.

After school I tried to improve my English and visited some evening courses, but realized that I do not make much progress with them. So I decided to learn to basic vocabulary (the most used ca. 1000 words). I used a box with 5 sections and cards. When I know the word it goes to the next section. When I do not know goes to the back of the first section. I learned the vocabulary each work day on my way to work until I was through the most used 1000 words. There are programs and apps, which offer the same on a computer nowadays. You have to do this learning regularly to ramp up the basic vocabulary. 15 to 30 Minutes per day is enough. You may have to learn longer per day, if you need to learn faster because you have to use it soon.

I used the box method also to learn Spanish vocabulary without the frustration connected with learning English vocabulary as school child. I also used it to learn how the verbs are conjugated in the different times. This system is quite flexible to use IMHO.

In parallel to basic vocabulary learning, I read so-called easy readers; these were books with restricted vocabulary. In English they were available using only the 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 most used words. I got them from my local library, so I did not have to buy them. After the time with easy readers I went to read thin books, e.g. also children books and adult books using only small vocabulary. After a time I ramped-up enough vocabulary that I was able to ready any English books fluently and easily. Now I get the meaning of unknown word from the context or sometimes look it up - same as in German - my first language. I still use online dictionaries (e.g. _pda.leo.org).

There was a time during the thin book reading time, when I tried to read a book, mark any unknown word and look it up in a dictionary. This was a lot of work with much frustration because of the many unknown / half-known word and the many markings in the book. It also took very long to check the words in a paper dictionary. Today you may buy a kindle or use a kindle app, get a book you like and a kindle dictionary and check the words you do not know. This is much faster today. But when you learn you may want to choose one book with not so much vocabulary, when start learning, so that you have more success when reading.

I have got a bit of experience with super-learning method. It is more interesting as the traditional learning method in a class and adds interaction to the learning experience. Not only hearing and reading a a bit of talking but also acting. It was a bit playing with the language and to just use it.

My English is quite good now. I am using it very much at work and have no problems there. But I still have some difficulties when watching films in English / American English. They speak fast with mostly with an accent / dialect, with low voices and a huge vocabulary. And there are other noises / music beside the speaking. For me it takes some time to hear the word, recognize the word and get the meaning. When I am finished with this I already missed what was coming next. So I switch on English subtitles at a DVD and this helps me recognizing the words faster.

With Internet you can hear audio books (free audio books in many languages: _librivox.org), radio, TV programs or YouTube videos in the language you learn. You can try to pick up words or phrases you recognize.

The Goethe Institute offers online lessons for learning German from many languages and the other way round. Some parts are for free and others you have to pay a bit. There are free audio parts. You can order books for the lessons and they are quite cheap (_http://www.goethe-verlag.com/book2/DE/ , _http://www.goethe-verlag.com). I think they are quite good when you want to start learning without too much money. And they offer basic vocabulary in short sentences. The books do not contain much grammar.

For tourist phrases in Germany you can buy "Kauderwelsch" books for many languages; the explanations are German though. The books contain a bit of grammar, too. You can also buy audio, but it is a bit pricey.

What also helps is to go to a group / course regularly to speak and to keep your motivation to continue learning. The teacher can correct your error, which is missed when you learn alone. What also is helpful if you learn the words for situations you want to use the language. For example when you want to learn French because you want to visit France as a tourist you should practice tourist situations. When you want to learn French because you want to live there you may have to add additional situations like how to interact with French bureaucracy. What also helps if you have e.g. texts you are interested in the content.

I think, when learning a new language you have to learn the most used ca. 1000 words and to be able to act in the most common situations. From there you can move on easily when you continue to have contact with the language. Then you pick up words like you do it in your mother tongue.

And you have to loose your fear not being perfect. In Europe I met a lot of peeps, that were really tolerant with my many errors with their languages. Most are pleased that I try to speak their language. Most see I am a learner, try to understand what I want to say and help me. I did the same with persons living and working here but with a limited knowledge of German. I think you almost never will be 100% error free in any language. And there are always misunderstandings even if 2 persons speak the same language. I think it is important that there is a successful communication, to make yourself understood.

You could tell your pupils some ways how they can improve or use the new language or learn vocabulary effectively outside your lessons.

Hope it helps a bit.

 

[Kasia]

And you have to loose your fear not being perfect. In Europe I met a lot of peeps, that were really tolerant with my many errors with their languages. Most are pleased that I try to speak their language. Most see I am a learner, try to understand what I want to say and help me. I did the same with persons living and working here but with a limited knowledge of German. I think you almost never will be 100% error free in any language. And there are always misunderstandings even if 2 persons speak the same language. I think it is important that there is a successful communication, to make yourself understood.

Agree + one should keep in mind that also natives make mistakes speaking or writing in theirs mother tongues.
Of course it doesn't mean that learning foreign languages one should not work at all on lingual correctness, but it should not be top priority.

 

[mabar]

So, my question is: what did you do in order to learn a new language? What helped, what didn't help? Do people really need schoolbooks or can we just look for alternative teaching materials which could be more tailor-made?
Thanks! :)

I learned English at school. It was a nightmare to me. I remember that we did not have books alike those of second language, they were books that were used the same as in US or England schools, I also took classes at the Anglo (special English school), although, I think I learned better by text books from native language, --they have different structure--, rather than the text books for second language, I had a lot of trouble with hearing, the American pronunciation is more "fluid" and the British was more precise. And, used to I understand much better the British one. Nowadays from time to time, I continue to do exercises from a English college book, different approach, starting with clauses and phrases, that, I -still- get confused.

As other people had posted, it helps a lot to not talk in other language that is not which is being taught. I began studying Japanese years ago, the teacher was Japanese, she did not talk much Spanish, and she knew better English, she taught us along with Japanese dictionary elementary school. I did not follow more classes, teacher was changed and, although, he knew Japanese language, he was not very didactic and everything was explained in Spanish, so, what we learned with the first teacher was lost with him. She encourage us to talk, no matter how bad we were, that helps too, because, step by step you left behind shyness, although is not comfortable :P ... later I study by myself, I have a lot of books (dictionaries mostly) and anime videos without English subtitles, and also Japnaese music and CD booklets, I like to study kanji to be able to read the lyrics... had not done it for a while, though, but I reached a point in which I was understanding the video and the songs! ...with practice -hearing/reading/writting, as others had said too.

One thing that help me with English language was to read without finding every word at the dictionary, and it was thanks to the internet, better contents of anime were in the English sites, I pretty much devour them and the English language did not hurt anymore and was able to jump to other themes.

 

[Gwenllian]

Thank you so much for all your replies! It is most helpful and stimulating. :)
I think I will reread this thread a couple of times and ponder more.

I do recall now writing lists of English words for my kids or so-called Latin found in Harry Potter books. My eldest would then draw a picture next to the word for instance.
I think that over the years reading and listening have improved my English considerably. I enjoy learning foreign languages in a natural way without paying too much attention all the time.
But I remember practising English pronunciation in front of the telly (I used to watch the BBC a lot) when I was in teacher training college.

I have used French and German SOTT and RT in order to brush up on my languages and I particularly like RT's short summaries of their articles on FB. :D
I don't speak Spanish, but I do try to read FB SOTT posts in Spanish as well, and I do recognise all kinds of words, since they are so similar to French and English. All my languages have become better this way.

Here is some encouragement:

People who learn quickest show the least neural activity, a new study finds.

The research flies in the face of the common myth that the key to learning is trying harder and thinking it through.

Instead, quick learners in particular showed reduced brain activity in the frontal cortex, an area linked to conscious planning.

In other words: good learners don't overthink what they are trying to learn.

http://www.sott.net/article/295082-Effective-learners-dont-overthink-what-they-are-trying-to-learn-study

I learned English also from songs, movies and series. In school I learned just french (my mother fought that I will not need English in my life ) and pretty much I can understand when somebody speak and write but I have lost my knowledge of writing on french.
Also, when I write on English I have to read after I write and from the sound I conclude is it writed right. But when I read post from the other people I can see big difference between their sentences and my. It is not nice feeling to see how my sentences are bad and short and probably for some people is hard to understand what I wanted to say, but I think that I'm progressing because now I read English every day, from forum and book. Couple days before my friend put some film to play, I didn't even noticed that subtitles are on English ;). Also, my desire for knowledge about metaphysics, ketogen diet and etc. pushing me hard to read more and hopfully learn to write on better English. If I wanna write a long post I need two hours :/, but is good exercises.

I don't did anyone spot this article, very stimulating:

http://www.sott.net/article/252099-Learning-a-new-language-expands-the-brain

Dakota, to me your English is really clear. And I for one am always grappling with people whose English is not perfect, as I am a non-native myself and find it therefore harder to understand what they are saying.

Thank you all again, learning is fun!

 

[Anamarija]

Dakota, to me your English is really clear. And I for one am always grappling with people whose English is not perfect, as I am a non-native myself and find it therefore harder to understand what they are saying.

Thank you for saying that, it is really comforting ;D.

That gave me an idea if it possible that we have a thread only about learning language and if some one have time, will and energy to help others with correcting they sentences. For example someone write something and then others correct his sentence? We have Spell Check what is really great, but that just help to write the words in the right way.

 

[MusicMan]

An interesting thread, and as an Englishman, I can say that I can understand most of the posts that are put up on the Forum, and even some of those who are struggling seem to improve as they produce more messages.
I endorse learning a language from a native speaker. I learned French at school from a Frenchman, mind you it was nearly 60 years ago.. (1959)
Reading simple texts, I was teaching myself Greek and found a comic strip with the story of the Odyssey really helpful.
Then there are words which just cannot be translated into another language. I worked with Siemens (a German company) for 11 years, and used to translate some of their technical manuals into English.
One day a word had me stumped, so I went over to one of the older German workers, and asked for his opinion. It turned out to be one of those words. Sorry I can't remember which one now, this was over twenty years ago.
If a thread such as Dakota suggested was begun, I could 'proofread' for it.

 

[Phill4]

videogames, because I used to like them and made an effort to understand them.
However video games might not be as good as an advise because now games are a repeat of the same war/shooting games with little to no story.

books if the person likes to read.

movies if the person likes movies.

another thing i think is to place sticky notes on items around the house so you call these items by the name in the language you are trying to learn. Like door , you put a sticker with the word door. window same thing, that way you always see it.

just the effort to look up the words and doing the sticky notes , that effort to recall and find the word is an exercise on its own.

 

[Xico]

So, my question is: what did you do in order to learn a new language? What helped, what didn't help? Do people really need schoolbooks or can we just look for alternative teaching materials which could be more tailor-made?
Thanks! :)

well, what I did when I was in elementary school back in Mexico, I used to listened to songs and I used to buy those music magazines that had most of the recent songs that were played on the radio, I also had an English teacher who help me a lot, but the main reason was that I was really interested in learning English.
and I'm still am... as my English teacher told me once and I quote " nobody knows his own language until he tries to learn a new one " and quote.

 

[AutomatedMan]

So, my question is: what did you do in order to learn a new language? What helped, what didn't help? Do people really need schoolbooks or can we just look for alternative teaching materials which could be more tailor-made?
Thanks! :)

One of the things I started doing recently to learn Spanish was Duolingo, a website that provides free lessons for various languages. The app lets you practice through lessons and 'gamifies' learning with levels and reminders to keep you practicing through lessons. Previous lessons can get 'weaker' over time, enforcing spaced repetition of lessons. Eulenspiegel mentioned Anki software, which uses space repetition also. The creator discusses his ideas behind Duolingo in this TEDx talk. It's currently free and available on the web and in both the App Store and Google Play stores. Once you get through the lessons, you can help translate articles on the web with other users. You can do the lessons on any platform, but you can only edit articles through the web application. There's also a beta testing area that has languages in need of tutors and lesson plannings at Duolingo Incubator

My kids learned to speak English by playing games, watching movies and series. They started to understand French and German when they heard other people speak these languages, the way we all learned our native language. I learned to speak German (it was one of my subjects at school, but I couldn't utter one word) when I heard it all day long. It happened quite naturally. The same goes for my French and English. Although I studied these languages at teacher training college I only became more proficient when I went abroad and when I started being immersed in the language.

Immersion has been considered the best way to quickly and thoroughly learn a language. I wish I could travel more but I'm limited on funds :(. Games, television shows, movies and books may be the best way to immerse yourself in a language at a cheaper cost but still with the benefits of extended exposure.

 

[Gwenllian]

After reading all your replies (thank you again!) I am now actually thinking that language teachers are pretty redundant with all these opportunities that are out there! Unless I see myself more as a facilitator and suggest all kinds of ideas to future students, guiding them if they are in need of guidance and allow them to work on their own if they wish to do so.

 

[Shared Joy]

Hi,
I found this article with tips to learn a foreign languages which summarize nicely the why and hows of learning languages.
_http://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/10-tips-from-an-expert?slc=engmag-a1-vid-bv1-new-tipsandtricks-tb&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=cd_engall_gen_cxx_tipsandtricks

10 Tips and Tricks to Learn Any Language
Advice for learning languages from a guy who speaks nine

1. KNOW WHY YOU’RE DOING IT
This might sound obvious, but if you don’t have a good reason to learn a language, you are less likely to stay motivated over the long-run. Wanting to impress English-speakers with your French is not a very good reason; wanting to get to know a French person in his or her own language is another matter entirely. No matter your reason, once you’ve decided on a language, it’s crucial to commit:
“OK, I want to learn this and I’m therefore going to do as much as I can in this language, with this language and for this language.”

2. FIND A PARTNER
Matthew learned several languages together with his twin brother Michael (they tackled their first foreign language, Greek, when they were only eight years old!). Matthew and Michael, or the Super Polyglot Bros. as I’d like to now refer to them, gained their superpowers from good-ol’, healthy sibling rivalry:
“We were very motivated, and we still are. We push each other to really go for it. So if he realizes that I’m doing more than he is he’ll get a bit jealous and then try and outdo me (maybe because he’s my twin) – and the other way round.”

Even if you can’t get a sibling to join you on your language adventure, having any kind of partner will push both of you to always try just a little bit harder and stay with it:
“I think it’s a really great way of actually going about it. You have someone with whom you can speak, and that’s the idea behind learning a language.”

3. TALK TO YOURSELF
When you have no one else to speak to, there’s nothing wrong with talking to yourself:
“It might sound really weird, but actually speaking to yourself in a language is a great way to practice if you’re not able to use it all the time.”
This can keep new words and phrases fresh in your mind and build up your confidence for the next time you speak with someone.

4. KEEP IT RELEVANT
If you make conversation a goal from the beginning, you are less likely to get lost in textbooks. Talking to people will keep the learning process relevant to you:
“You’re learning a language to be able to use it. You’re not going to speak it to yourself. The creative side is really being able to put the language that you’re learning into a more useful, general, everyday setting – be that through writing songs, generally wanting to speak to people, or using it when you go abroad. You don’t necessarily have to go abroad; you can go to the Greek restaurant down the road and order in Greek.”

5. HAVE FUN WITH IT
Using your new language in any way is a creative act. The Super Polyglot Bros. practiced their Greek by writing and recording songs. Think of some fun ways to practice your new language: make a radio play with a friend, draw a comic strip, write a poem, or simply talk to whomever you can. If you can’t find a way to have fun with the new language, chances are you aren’t following step four.

6. ACT LIKE A CHILD
This is not to say you should throw a tantrum or get food in your hair when you go out to a restaurant, but try learning the way kids do. The idea that children are inherently better learners than adults is proving to be a myth. New research cannot find a direct link between age and the ability to learn. The key to learning as quickly as a child may be to simply take on certain childlike attitudes: for instance, lack of self-consciousness, a desire to play in the language and willingness to make mistakes.

We learn by making mistakes. As kids, we are expected to make mistakes, but as adults mistakes become taboo. Think how an adult is more likely to say, “I can’t”, rather than, “I haven’t learned that yet” (I can’t swim, I can’t drive, I can’t speak Spanish). To be seen failing (or merely struggling) is a social taboo that doesn’t burden children. When it comes to learning a language, admitting that you don’t know everything (and being okay with that) is the key to growth and freedom. Let go of your grown-up inhibitions!

7. LEAVE YOUR COMFORT ZONE
Willingness to make mistakes means being ready to put yourself in potentially embarrassing situations. This can be scary, but it’s the only way to develop and improve. No matter how much you learn, you won’t ever speak a language without putting yourself out there: talk to strangers in the language, ask for directions, order food, try to tell a joke. The more often you do this, the bigger your comfort zone becomes and the more at ease you can be in new situations:

“At the beginning you’re going to encounter difficulties: maybe the pronunciation, maybe the grammar, the syntax, or you don’t really get the sayings. But I think the most important thing is to always develop this feel. Every native speaker has a feel for his or her own language, and that’s basically what makes a native-speaker – whether you can make the language your own.”

8. LISTEN
You must learn to listen before you can speak. Every language sounds strange the first time you hear it, but the more you expose yourself to it the more familiar it becomes, and the easier it is to speak it properly:

“We’re able to pronounce anything, it’s just we’re not used to doing it. For example the rolled r doesn’t exist in my form of English. When I was learning Spanish there were words with the hard r in them like perro and reunión. For me, the best way to go about mastering that is actually to hear it constantly, to listen to it and to kind of visualize or imagine how that is supposed to be pronounced, because for every sound there is a specific part of the mouth or throat that we use in order to achieve that sound.”

9. WATCH PEOPLE TALK
Different languages make different demands on your tongue, lips and throat. Pronunciation is just as much physical as it is mental:

“One way – it might sound a bit strange – is to really look at someone while they’re saying words that use that sound, and then to try to imitate that sound as much as possible. Believe me, it might be difficult at the beginning, but you will. It’s something that is actually quite easily done; you just need to practice it.”

If you can’t watch and imitate a native-speaker in person, watching foreign-language films and TV is a good substitute.

10. DIVE IN
So you’ve made the pledge. How to proceed? Is there a proper way to go about learning? Matthew recommends the 360° maximalist approach: no matter which learning tools you use, it’s crucial to practice your new language every single day:

“I tend to want to absorb as much as possible right from the start. So if I learn something I really, really go for it and try to use it throughout the day. As the week progresses I try to think in it, try to write in it, try to speak to myself even in that language. For me it’s about actually putting what you’re learning into practice – be that writing an email, speaking to yourself, listening to music, listening to the radio. Surrounding yourself, submerging yourself in the new language culture is extremely important.”

Remember, the best possible outcome of speaking a language is for people to speak back to you. Being able to have a simple conversation is a huge reward in itself. Reaching milestones like that early on will make it easier to stay motivated and keep practicing. And don’t worry, you won’t annoy people by speaking their language poorly. If you preface any interaction with, “I’m learning and I’d like to practice…” most people will be patient, encouraging and happy to oblige. Even though there are approximately a billion non-native English-speakers around the world, most of them would rather speak their own language if given a choice. Taking the initiative to step into someone else’s language world can also put them at ease and promote good feelings all around:

“Sure, you can travel abroad speaking your own language, but you’ll get so much more out of it being able to actually feel at ease in the place you are – being able to communicate, to understand, to interact in every situation you could possibly imagine.”

Inspired to get started?
You can learn a language the fast, fun and easy way with Babbel. (My note - this last remark belongs to the site, haven't try it)

 

[Novelis]

[quote author=Miriama]So, my question is: what did you do in order to learn a new language? What helped, what didn't help?[/quote]

I try my best to be a good teacher by reading a whole lot of books about language teaching/learning, then I apply the techniques that I come across in my own language learning. That way, the options are limitless.

[quote author=Miriama]Do people really need schoolbooks or can we just look for alternative teaching materials which could be more tailor-made?[/quote]

Yes, they are part of the repetoire, I think, but they often lack the creativity and richness of "authentic" materials, i.e. writings that were not created for language learning.

Children's books are good, as they often provide imagery that support meaning, and they are often very rich in vocabulary and have a natural-ness about them that are often lacking in course books. Look at the famous 'Mr. Men books', for example, where the first book is about Mr. Tickcle and his "extraordinarily long arms" - hardly "simple", is it?

Folktales are great too, as they often repeat a sentential/paragraphical structure with a lttle variation on each repeatition. For example, look at the story of "stone Soup," where there is the same basic structure, but with one item added at every repetition.

[Quote author=Using Folktales. Eric K. Taylor. Cambridge Handbooks for Language Teachers. P. 83] Once a beggar knocked on an old woman’s door.
“Excuse me,” said the beggar, “but could you share some of your food with me? I’m very hungry.”
“I have nothing to share,” said the woman. “My food is all gone.”
“Well then,” said the man, “I will feed you. All I need is a large pot, some water, and a stone. I will make you stone soup!” then she went to get a pot.
The woman brought a pot of water and put it over the fire, and the man dropped in a round grey stone and began to stir.
After a while the man tasted the soup.
“This soup is good,” said the man, “but it would be better if we had some salt and pepper.”
“I think I have some salt and pepper,” said the woman, and she went and got some.
So the man stirred the pot with the salt and pepper and the round, grey stone.
And the woman said, “Imagine that – soup from a stone.”
After a while the man tasted the soup again.
“This soup is tasty,” said the man, “but it would be tastier if we had some carrots.”
“I think I have some carrots,” said the woman, and she went and got some long, orange carrots.
So the man stirred the pot with the long, orange carrots; and the salt and pepper and the round, grey stone.
And the woman said, “Imagine that – soup from a stone.”
After a while the man tasted the soup again.
“This soup is delicious,” said the man, “but it would be more delicious if we had some cabbage.”
“I think I have some cabbage,” said the woman, and she went and got a leafy, purple cabbage.
So the man stirred the pot with the leafy, purple cabbage; and the long, orange carrots; and the salt and pepper and the round, grey stone.
And the woman said, “Imagine that – soup from a stone.”
After a while the man tasted the soup again.
“This soup is hearty,” said the man, “but it would be heartier if we had a bone.”
“I think I have a bone,” said the woman, and she went and got a long, red bone.
So the man stirred the pot with the long, red bone; and the leafy, purple cabbage; and the long, orange carrots; and the salt and pepper and the round, grey stone.
And the woman said, “Imagine that – soup from a stone.”
After a while the man tasted the soup again.
“This soup is thick,” said the man, “but it would be thicker if we had some flour.”
“I think I have some flour,” said the woman, and she went and got some fine, white flour.
So the man stirred the pot with the fine, white flour; and the long, red bone; and the leafy, purple cabbage; and the long, orange carrots; and the salt and pepper and the round, grey stone.
And the woman said, “Imagine that – soup from a stone.”
After a while the man tasted the soup again.
“This soup is wonderful,” said the man, “but it would be more wonderful if we had an onion.”
“I think I have an onion,” said the woman, and she went and got a yellow onion.
So the man stirred the pot with the yellow onion; and the fine, white flour; and the long, red bone; and the leafy, purple cabbage; and the long, orange carrots; and the salt and pepper and the round, grey stone.
And the woman said, “Imagine that – soup from a stone.”
After a while the man tasted the soup again.
“This soup is rich,” said the man, “but it would be richer if we had some butter.”
“I think I have some butter,” said the woman, and she went and got some creamy, yellow butter.
So the man stirred the pot with the creamy, yellow butter; and the yellow onion; and the fine, white flour; and the long, red bone; and the leafy, purple cabbage; and the long, orange carrots; and the salt and pepper and the round, grey stone.
And the woman said, “Imagine that – soup from a stone.”
After a while the man tasted the soup again.
“This soup is just right,” said the man. “Let’s eat!”
So the woman got two bowls, and they ate the soup. It was delicious.
“Imagine that,” said the woman, “Soup from a stone.”
“Imagine that,” said the man.[/quote]

(I reused this recipe in my own class but with a ketogenic twist to it! ;))

The essential thing is the material being able to maintain your interest, though, as others have alrady articulated better than I could.

Hope this helps,
Robin

 

[Novelis]

[quote author=Eulenspiegel](I am learning Chinese right now and have been living in China/Taiwan for these past 2 years)[/quote]

Pardon me, Eulenspiegel, this is off-topic, but I’d like to clear up the above ambiguity. Do you mean you’ve lived (or have been living) in both places over the years, or do you think that, based on the grounds of your observations, that there is no need to make the necessary distinction between them?

Thanks,
Robin

 

[Novelis]

[quote author=Eulenspiegel]Sometimes you meet Japanese and Koreans in China/Taiwan that speak excellent English or Chinese and these are usually very smart and hard working individuals. But this is nowhere near as frequent as the fluent conversational English most Northern Europeans seem to have. I attribute this both to flawed classroom methodologies and the distance between Indo-European and Altaic(?) languages like Japanese/Korean.[/quote]

I would say that these two factors, while not a having direct cause-effect relationship, due to the immense complexities of socio-cultural-historical factors and how they dynamically interact with the situation you describe, they certainly have overlapping causes at least, i.e. that while a flawed classroom methodology is not a direct effect of the distance between those languages, it is quite surely a significant contributive factor.

If you are learning a new language that is closely related to your first language (like French – English), then you’ve already got many cognitive tools at your disposal for learning the new language. Whereas, if you are learning a new language with such a distance as in English – Chinese for instance, then pretty much all of your tools for acquiring said language is rendered redundant, and you basically have to "start from scratch."

Therefore, it may be quite true to say that, by learning any language to begin with, you are already learning new languages. By learning English, you are already learning French, German, Latin, Spanish, etc.

 

[Gwenllian]

To act like a child is an important point, when it comes to learning IMO, Shared Joy. So thank you for that interesting article. We have to forget all that self-importance and just do it. :)

What a lovely idea, Robin Turner, to use folktales. I will bear that in mind. The advantage being that many people know them and it will be easier to follow the text in a foreign language.

If you are learning a new language that is closely related to your first language (like French – English), then you’ve already got many cognitive tools at your disposal for learning the new language. Whereas, if you are learning a new language with such a distance as in English – Chinese for instance, then pretty much all of your tools for acquiring said language is rendered redundant, and you basically have to "start from scratch."

Therefore, it may be quite true to say that, by learning any language to begin with, you are already learning new languages. By learning English, you are already learning French, German, Latin, Spanish, etc.

Very true. When I read or listen to the Spanish language there are quite a few words that I can deduce from French and English for instance. When I read German texts I recognise a lot of similarities with the Dutch language, but I also recognise words which are used in the English language.
Even when I listen to Putin's speeches I try to do that. Some words even sound Dutch. :P