Learning to overcome fear

[whitecoast]

I recognise myself in what you wrote, Michael BC.
I find it hard to stand up for myself and when I do I am overcome with anxiety and fear.

Make that two of us!

We are not talking here about the vital self protective defence mechanism of a balanced, natural organism, responding intuitively to genuine danger signals from the environment, no; what I am referring to is a latent state of being, a pervading sense of unease and insecurity that for many is the root experience of all life.

{snip}

Fear it seems to me, is the defining matrix control mechanism over us humans.

[quote author=Mariama]And it is true, it is very liberating if we can feel our anxiety, acknowledge it and then with a clear head steer away from it.[/quote]

I've actually started to notice this in myself as well, a few months ago. Only it's not really conscious in me at all. It's more a sort of counter-phobic, unconscious fear that my mind has had trouble even acknowledging.

I feel a lot of generalized, pervasive anxiety in me whenever I try to self-remember and reign in my ever-chattering formatory apparatus with "inner silence". Usually the anxiety is also accompanied by a feeling of emotional vulnerability and tenderness at some level as well.

I think this constantly anxious part of me is always there, but disappears into my subconscious during waking sleep, to be replaced by a type of over-compensating mental activity that's really quite unproductive and maladaptive in a lot of cases. It's certainly not replaced with action, which is what the anxiety seems to be arresting. But I find that by consciously holding onto that feeling of anxiety without resisting its expression or yielding to its over-excited whims, I am able to act fully and decisively. I'm at my best when I feel anxious, because it means that it's not in the background, pulling my strings without the supervision of my System 2.


[quote author=MichaelBC]
Has anyone else on a true Ketogenic diet (which I obviously am not one) noticed any anxiety/fear changes?
[/quote]

I often find that whenever I fall off the ketogenic saddle and consume carbs or sugars, it becomes exponentially harder to silence my mind. Controlling mechanical thinking is always difficult in the work, but without a proper diet it can become simply overwhelming. One hypothesis I had was that a poorer diet increases my anxiety, which is causing my mind to go into overdrive to compensate for feeling insecure once again. OSIT.

[quote author=MichaelBC]
Fear of death (even in the shape of ego anxiety) defines most people, even those who don’t suffer from what I describe above. The hypertensives simply experience it more acutely; like canaries in the mine they express acute awareness and experiences of some kind of frequency that pulses unseen and yet is ever present through the entire human bio-system.
[/quote]

Gurdjieff said that fear of Death proper (the one when our body ends, not the hundreds of inane fixations and fears we regularly fill our minds with) was one of the best ways to teach us how to spend our time alive and self-remember. That shelter from truly feeling our vulnerability and mortality was one of the primary organs of hypnosis (The Evil Magician convincing the sheep they were immortal, and that bad things will never happen, or at least not today and not to them).

 

[Gwenllian]

I've actually started to notice this in myself as well, a few months ago. Only it's not really conscious in me at all. It's more a sort of counter-phobic, unconscious fear that my mind has had trouble even acknowledging.

I feel a lot of generalized, pervasive anxiety in me whenever I try to self-remember and reign in my ever-chattering formatory apparatus with "inner silence". Usually the anxiety is also accompanied by a feeling of emotional vulnerability and tenderness at some level as well.

I think this constantly anxious part of me is always there, but disappears into my subconscious during waking sleep, to be replaced by a type of over-compensating mental activity that's really quite unproductive and maladaptive in a lot of cases. It's certainly not replaced with action, which is what the anxiety seems to be arresting. But I find that by consciously holding onto that feeling of anxiety without resisting its expression or yielding to its over-excited whims, I am able to act fully and decisively. I'm at my best when I feel anxious, because it means that it's not in the background, pulling my strings without the supervision of my System 2.

Very interesting, whitecoast.
I will see what happens if I consciously hold onto that feeling of anxiety. Sometimes during the night I recite POTS or use some acupressure points or Peter Levine's techniques. Sometimes I try to get rid of it ASAP. But I am wondering now what will happen if I do what you described above.
I have found that I am at my best when my anxiety has subsided, but I am still aware of it.


[quote author=MichaelBC]
Fear of death (even in the shape of ego anxiety) defines most people, even those who don’t suffer from what I describe above. The hypertensives simply experience it more acutely; like canaries in the mine they express acute awareness and experiences of some kind of frequency that pulses unseen and yet is ever present through the entire human bio-system.
[/quote]

Gurdjieff said that fear of Death proper (the one when our body ends, not the hundreds of inane fixations and fears we regularly fill our minds with) was one of the best ways to teach us how to spend our time alive and self-remember. That shelter from truly feeling our vulnerability and mortality was one of the primary organs of hypnosis (The Evil Magician convincing the sheep they were immortal, and that bad things will never happen, or at least not today and not to them).

I often think about dying. Especially, these past few months, as I am trying to come to terms with the possible scenarios of the future. It has been a great lesson. It makes me appreciate life more.
I remember this Dutch film director that suffered from terminal cancer, who said that he had never been happier.

 

[Michal]

This clip is about training a horse to overcome fear while loading a trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGsOV_eOYXk

It could be analogically to us a method to come closer to something which we are afraid of. Extending our comfort zone, getting closer step by step.

I also think that other method is the one mentioned in fragment from Castaneda telling about four enemies of a warrior.

And thus he has stumbled upon the first of his natural enemies: fear! A terrible enemy-treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling, waiting. And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest and he will never learn. He will never become a man of knowledge. He will perhaps be a bully, or a harmless, scared man; at any rate, he will be a defeated man. His first enemy will have put an end to his cravings.

It is not possible for a man to abandon himself to fear for years, then finally conquer it. If he gives in to fear he will never conquer it, because he will shy away from learning and never try again. But if he tries to learn for years in the midst of his fear, he will eventually conquer it because he will never have really abandoned himself to it.
Therefore he must not run away. He must defy his fear, and in spite of it he must take the next step in learning, and the next, and the next. He must be fully afraid, and yet he must not stop. That is the rule! And a moment will come when his first enemy retreats. The man begins to feel sure of himself. His intent becomes stronger. Learning is no longer a terrifying task.

 

[Jacques]

Someone posted that on FB and I found it interesting.

 

[Buddy]

I remember when I 'solved' the "I want you to want to..." emotional manipulation.

I had always been kind of passive and afraid in some relationships that I came to think of as manipulative because I didn't know how to handle it. Every time I tried, I always stumbled, got confused and just caved in and did what was wanted of me, but with a lower sense of self-worth, essence or whatever.

I eventually decided to let myself experience being right in the middle of what appeared to be emotional coercion and without reacting just so that my mind was present during the whole uncomfortable ordeal. I wanted to try and mentally work through this while I was feeling bad. While I was there in the moment and pretending I was verbally confronting the manipulator, my unspoken thoughts would go something like this:

"When you assert something that you want me to want to do, I see myself as unloving or inadequate in some way and feel guilty and want to make amends by doing whatever it is you're wanting me to do.

If I give in and do it, it's not really coming from me, is it? I'm doing it because you want me to and to relieve a sense of guilt for being inadequate at the time. Also, when you "want me to want to..." to the exclusion of what I may be wanting or needing, then you look rather self-centered--at least at the moment."

About the time I had gained some confidence in my understanding and was about to formulate a plan for bringing my thoughts out in the open, I no longer needed to.

What seemed to have happened was that, all of a sudden, that coercion tactic became transparent as I saw my role in it too. I sort of saw right through it to the person themselves. It's like I felt a reconnection at the heart level as I saw that the person was really just asking for what they felt they were needing deep inside--something deeper than the actual words they had to use to express it. It's just that they didn't know any other way to ask than the ways they learned from others while growing up. And this particular person seemed to have had a very narcissistic mother.

Now, I'm no longer so bothered by this fear of being manipulated in this way. It seems like I have an option of handling it directly or to look through it and feel what is the person's actual state at the moment. It also seems to have a side effect of showing me when it is I (or a part of me) who is really being, or wanting to be, manipulative. That part isn't so very comfortable of course, but it is necessary to see for Work purposes.

In summary, I'd say I think I was really afraid mostly of feeling the sensations of fear. Sometimes I think I dislike feeling afraid more than I dislike the actual idea of being in a situation that I fear being in. Is that weird? The easy part of confronting a fear seems to be the direct exposing of myself to that of which I feel afraid. The hard part is being willing to see what role that I (or a part of me) may be playing in some relationship 'game' based on avoidance or something. Hope this makes some sense to someone.

 

[andi]

Buddy, what you wrote speakes so directly to me right now, its stunning. Thanks for putting it in words!

 

[Buddy]

Buddy, what you wrote speakes so directly to me right now, its stunning. Thanks for putting it in words!

That was kind of you to say, andi. Thanks. :)

 

[SMM]

Re: Dealing with Fear

I haven't started watching the series yet, but plan to. I'm still catching up with the Ketogenic diet articles and videos. But since the last session, the increasing talk of all of the preparedness and disaster subjects has been getting me pretty worried and afraid. So much so that I've found myself dissociating for over a month.

It's like I want to shut it out and hope it will never come. And I've been preparing all along with the diet, canning, and reading; but as it really starts to come about, I'm having trouble dealing with the reality of it. A theme of my life seems to be facing reality, from the small things to the biggest things.

So I kind of have a depression going on too. It just seems so hopeless sometimes. As if my current life and goals are useless if everything is going to change drastically. I think sometimes that it is too much to handle for myself. And I'm prone to anxiety so that's when it goes into survival fear. I think too that I am pitying myself, as in: "Oh poor me, I have all this hardship coming and little time to get things done."

That's about what I wanted to say. Even though swampy, I'm keeping this in this thread in case anyone had similar feelings.

I also go through bouts of dissassociation & have trouble dealing with reality - very weak self-identity here.
Thought myself odd for feeling fear [wherein a mask may be worn] & was incompassionate with myself, piling on the pity, projecting insecurities & whatnot.

All the posts in this thread are deeply relevant, osit, for everyone. Growing up in Tanzania, our means of expression was very different from what has been experienced elsewhere. Up until recently, I felt I had to censor fear - not feel it & God forbid anyone knowing I felt so. Habits can be taught out of however fear is a two-sided coin.

There are so many insightful points..lost for where to start. Let me thank everybody! New here & not used to writing however, fear being a program ingrained - it is perhaps innate & acquired, if I may posit, feeding each other cyclic.
Had generalised & social anxiety - as well as an insidious perfectionism - & one of the underlying factors amongst several was food. After perusing available sources & making changes
that coincided with coming upon Laura's work & the C's & related materials, I amended my diet & anxieties have reduced.

Social conventions/dynamics of the Western world are still foreign to me, even past a decade of residence, but the realisation that fear was the thing that held me back in essence from amalgamating changes under my belt successfully - or at least realistically.

I've actually started to notice this in myself as well, a few months ago. Only it's not really conscious in me at all. It's more a sort of counter-phobic, unconscious fear that my mind has had trouble even acknowledging.

I feel a lot of generalized, pervasive anxiety in me whenever I try to self-remember and reign in my ever-chattering formatory apparatus with "inner silence". Usually the anxiety is also accompanied by a feeling of emotional vulnerability and tenderness at some level as well.

I think this constantly anxious part of me is always there, but disappears into my subconscious during waking sleep, to be replaced by a type of over-compensating mental activity that's really quite unproductive and maladaptive in a lot of cases. It's certainly not replaced with action, which is what the anxiety seems to be arresting. But I find that by consciously holding onto that feeling of anxiety without resisting its expression or yielding to its over-excited whims, I am able to act fully and decisively. I'm at my best when I feel anxious, because it means that it's not in the background, pulling my strings without the supervision of my System 2.

Very interesting, whitecoast.
I will see what happens if I consciously hold onto that feeling of anxiety. Sometimes during the night I recite POTS or use some acupressure points or Peter Levine's techniques. Sometimes I try to get rid of it ASAP. But I am wondering now what will happen if I do what you described above.
I have found that I am at my best when my anxiety has subsided, but I am still aware of it.

[quote author=MichaelBC]
Fear of death (even in the shape of ego anxiety) defines most people, even those who don’t suffer from what I describe above. The hypertensives simply experience it more acutely; like canaries in the mine they express acute awareness and experiences of some kind of frequency that pulses unseen and yet is ever present through the entire human bio-system.

Gurdjieff said that fear of Death proper (the one when our body ends, not the hundreds of inane fixations and fears we regularly fill our minds with) was one of the best ways to teach us how to spend our time alive and self-remember. That shelter from truly feeling our vulnerability and mortality was one of the primary organs of hypnosis (The Evil Magician convincing the sheep they were immortal, and that bad things will never happen, or at least not today and not to them).

I often think about dying. Especially, these past few months, as I am trying to come to terms with the possible scenarios of the future. It has been a great lesson. It makes me appreciate life more.
I remember this Dutch film director that suffered from terminal cancer, who said that he had never been happier.
[/quote]

I often think about the future - at times obsessively. It is, although not exclusively, related to fear of the unknown. Fear of death (ego anxiety) could pertain to the unknown, particularly for the ego. However, if fear is a construct of the ego - if the ego being an illusion - is it a protective field from the unknown, however to our detriment at times so we cannot see things for what they really are?