"Life Without Bread"

[tykes]

Regarding the weight loss with the low carb and gluten free diet, my wife and I have experienced important changes in our health, she specially.
Her usual weight before the diet was 65 kg, now she's in 52 kg, though i think it's worth to mention that she was breastfeeding our baby until recently (one month ago).

During most of her life she have had health issues like anemia and gastritis, but after she quit gluten and dairy her gastritis seems to have dissapeared. In general she says she feels much better than before.

Nevertheless, several family members are horrified with this, especially her mother, she even phoned me the other night crying, pleading me to stop doing this to her poor child. The next day they came to my house and set up a huge drama, urging me for god's sake to take her with a competent Doctor, because she, they say, is just skin and bones. They offer to pay the whole treatment, because "it's too expensive and they realize that maybe is out of my budget".

They repeatedly say that they not blame on me directly, but again they think that I should talk with a "true professional"in order to throw away those crazy ideas about not eating some food that simply can not be out of the diet of any sane person.
A very annoying and exhausting situation, especially because i think my wife is really getting better, recovering little by little from a lot of issues, many inflicted directly by this people that now are trying so devoutly to help us. This is without a doubt another narcissistic maneuver, but we're not gonna take it this time.

By my part, I have been skinny practically all of my adult life, so I didn´t experience a dramatic change in my weight after quiting bread. I felt much better as well though I have to ackowledge that I haven't quit completely carbs, I still eat "Tortillas" (six or seven a day). But once I get my buckwheat I'll remove corn.

We eat a lot of meat with pork fat, mainly bacon and beef.

Finally I wanted to ask if it´s ok for our 11 old month baby to start gradually with a high fat diet? For the moment we feed him with chicken, beef, fruit and almond milk.

 

[nicklebleu]

An 11 month infant should not have any problems to adapt to high-fat, as this is the NORMAL diet for the body. We adults have problems, because we have wreaked havoc with a high-carb diet for most of our life. Don't forget that breastmilk is high-fat too. Although it probably makes sense to change over gradually ...

Hope that helps!

 

[tykes]

An 11 month infant should not have any problems to adapt to high-fat, as this is the NORMAL diet for the body. We adults have problems, because we have wreaked havoc with a high-carb diet for most of our life. Don't forget that breastmilk is high-fat too. Although it probably makes sense to change over gradually ...

Hope that helps!

Ok, thank you very much nickelbleu, what you say totally makes sense, I had passed over the fact that breastmilk is high fat.

 

[Laura]

I fed all my babies egg yolk custard every morning from the time they were six months until they were eating eggs on their own. I usually fried them gently in butter or poached them. Fried eggs with crumbled bacon on them are yummy for kids!

 

[RedFox]

That emphasizes what we were talking about earlier today here in the house - and which actually comes up quite a bit - HOW to get more fat in ratio to meat. Geeze, the cows have been bred to have less fat... I've asked the butcher to use the fattiest pieces when he makes my ground meat, but it is still not fatty enough. Fat gets trimmed all the time and I've had to put a stop to that. We feel best, it seems, when we eat fatty pork or lamb.

But clearly, I've got to do even more to get the higher fat content into everybody.

Seems I discovered this by accident before starting the low carb diet, for me goose fat seems to be the best. Lard and tallow don't seem to do it (but they are from a supermarket, so not sure if that's the problem?). I know you can't tolerate coconut oil, so fwiw I have (when out of coconut oil) tried snacking on a little goose fat. I was worried that without cooking it, it may have a bacteria load.....but nothing bad happened. It actually tastes quite good (especially if cooled in the fridge) osit.
I should mention that if I was really flagging, I'd take some extra l-carnatine and vitimin c with the coconut oil.

I've been mixing frozen blueberries with coconut oil too as my one sweet thing, and get the feeling that as long as the fat doesn't have a too overpowering flavour any good animal fat will do.
I've been cooking all my ground beef with a lot of ghee and goose fat over the last month or so now. Made some caseroals/stews with 800g of chopped beef a few sticks of celeray and two carrots, browned in a pan with 100g of ghee and 50g of goose fat. I then put it all in a covered dish in a medium over for an hour or two with lots of salt an pepper, another 100-200g of ghee, and 50g of goose fat and lard and tallow. Topped off with a small amount of water. That lasted me several days....seems the higher the fat content the less I need to eat in one meal (the less I can physically eat! I tried over eating once and felt rather ill). Lots of smaller meals of high fat seems to be the way to go. It was probably still only 50/50 fat to weight of meat....but getting the proportions up takes some adjusting. This level seems pretty good so far.

One thing I'm still taking every day is milk thistle, as without it my liver seems to struggle with processing all this fat. I don't think I will stop taking that for some months yet.

If the butcher is trimming the fat, what does he do with all the fat he trims from all the customers? Do they sell leg bones too? I find myself (although having never eaten it) craving bone marrow right now.
I know that the brain contains the most fat of any organ.....but I'm no where near brave enough to try eating something like that yet :/
Having said that though....I heard as a kid people use to make fish head soup. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find pig/sheep head in France quite easily too.

 

[Keit]

Having said all that, I am curiouse about possible symbolic meanings (iceage?) of the general population getting heavier and have always been curiouse about those goddess statues/images.

Maybe there is some connection, actual and/or symbolic to mitochondria (cellular power plant) and mtDNA (a genetic element inherited only through the female line)?

Also don't know how it is in English, but at least in Hebrew such women are called "healthy" (maybe in other Mediterranean cultures as well?) and in other cultures they are a symbol for contentment and abundance.

Transcripts also mention feeling of heat in connection to DNA changes. Internal heat of the Work on self, as was mentioned in the last transcript, also can produce changes on DNA level. Maybe there is a connection between "impressions" (food for the soul) of a "richer" (fatter?) kind and high-fat diet. Makes energy more efficient, maybe even assists with connection to higher centers if available.

It kind of fits with this about Ketogenic diets":

And now let's really get down to the mitochondrial level. Mitochondria are the power plants of our cells, where all the energy is produced (as ATP). Now, when I was taught about biochemical fuel-burning, I was taught that glucose was "clean" and ketones were "smokey." That glucose was clearly the preferred fuel for our muscles for exercise and definitely the key fuel for the brain. Except here's the dirty little secret about glucose - when you look at the amount of garbage leftover in the mitochondria, it is actually less efficient to make ATP from glucose than it is to make ATP from ketone bodies! A more efficient energy supply makes it easier to restore membranes in the brain to their normal states after a depolarizing electrical energy spike occurs, and means that energy is produced with fewer destructive free radicals leftover.

There is also another paranormal phenomena associated with energy, or cellular energy overload to be exact - spontaneous human combustion.

Also fround this article: Parasitic invasion credited with evolution of sex, but not sure if it has any connection or if relevant at all.

Added: Also, speaking of possible rejuvenation process, there is this recent research that mentions the following:

Some theories of human ageing suggest that the power generators of the cell, the mitochondria, play a part in the process. In addition to supplying us with energy in a usable form, mitochondria also produce harmful by-products – reactive oxyradicals that attack and damage various cell components. Eventually these injuries become too much for the cell to cope with, and it loses its capacity to maintain important functions, so the organism starts to age.[...]

The researchers found that a group of proteins called MTC proteins, which are normally needed for mitochondrial protein synthesis, also have other functions that influence genome stability and the cell's capacity to remove damaged and harmful proteins.[...]

He adds, "These studies also show that this MTC-dependent regulation of the rate of ageing uses the same signalling pathways that are activated in calorie restriction – something that extends the lifespan of many different organisms, including yeasts, mice and primates.

And above quote about ketogenic diet mentions how it promotes production of fewer reactive oxyradicals. Wonder if there is a process or mechanism that could not only prevent production of reactive oxyradicals but even reverse the aging process. But going high-fat looks like a definite step in the right direction!

 

[Nicholas]

To understand "dismal," some of the latest research showed that a "modified Atkins protocol" was just as good as the classic ketogenic diet, and so much more liberating, as the patients were allowed up to 10 grams of carbohydrates daily, and they didn't begin with the fast, and they weren't calorie restricted (2)(3). While the classic ketogenic diet was 4:1:1 fat to carbs to protein. If you use medium chain triglyceride (MCT) oil for 50% of your calories (have to add it in slowly though to prevent vomiting, diarrhea, and cramping!), you could increase the carbohydrates and proteins to a 1.2:1:1 fat:carb:protein and still get the same numbers of magical ketones circulating. And while "MCT oil" sounds nice and yummy when it is gorgeous coconut milk, this MCT Oil 100% Pure 32 fl.oz doesn't look quite as appetizing, especially when that is going the be half of what you eat for the foreseeable future (4). You can see why researchers consider ketogenic diets (especially the original versions) to be extremely difficult and unappetizing (they were), whereas seasoned low-carbers (who have a bit of a different idea what a ketogenic diet is) will find that attitude ridiculous, especially when you compare a ketogenic diet to the side effects of some anti-epileptic medications.

So, am I understanding the ratio correctly; at 1.2:1:1, a 4 ounce (113g) hamburger would need to be over 2 ounce (60g) of fat? In other words, we are measuring weight, not calories. Ex. 120g fat:100g carbs:100g protein. That would mean buying beef that is about 40% lean!

I have been gradually improving my diet over the past 5 years and since 6 months ago, really cut back on carbs. I am 6'1" (1.85m) and I first weighed 175 pounds (79kg) 5 years ago and dropped to 155 pounds (70kg) within one year and maintained that weight. Now, from the past 6 months my weight dropped to 152 pounds (69kg) and seems to be stable there. I don't feel any weaker doing my weight lifting and jogging exercises.

As I was growing up, I never liked eating the fat from the meats (texture was disgusting to me) but now I am trying to adjust to eating fat.

The book is on order but will take one month or so to receive from Amazon.

 

[Lucius]

That fits with my gut feeling on this too.....its like putting a jigsaw together with only a few outside pieces. I can see a shape forming but have no idea to the exact details yet.
With the quote above, I can already see another few pieces.

From the link in the first article about the study.
_http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.html

[..]No physical fatique or problems sticking to the diet were experienced by the two men. Only when the protein content of the diet increased substantially (45% of calories, 55% fat) did problems with digestion occur. Replacing excess protein with fat (20% protein, 80% fat) quickly resolved them, however.
[..]In general, the men were in ketosis whenever the ratio of fat to carbohydrates was over 1.5. With the extremely small amounts of carb in their diets, no definite relation between the amount of acetone bodies and the ratio of fat to carbs was found. Stefansson's friend, who was smaller and had less subcutaneous fat, had the highest sustained ketosis.
[..]

That emphasizes what we were talking about earlier today here in the house - and which actually comes up quite a bit - HOW to get more fat in ratio to meat. Geeze, the cows have been bred to have less fat... I've asked the butcher to use the fattiest pieces when he makes my ground meat, but it is still not fatty enough. Fat gets trimmed all the time and I've had to put a stop to that. We feel best, it seems, when we eat fatty pork or lamb.

But clearly, I've got to do even more to get the higher fat content into everybody.

Pork.

Some particular sorts of pigs have more fat (don't know the names, but whites ones). Also pigs are much easier to own and grow than cows, needs just a little yard. In Serbia, where I live, usual sort of meat is pork and lamb, very rare cow. People in villages usually grow some number of pigs for the family and to sell, but no more than 4-5 a year (no need). They also use pork lard almost exclusively. You can also see at the butcher are they making the cracklings (I hope that I got the word right).

This:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Čvarci

copy the link together with the word behind the "/"

To provide a lot of fat I use the meat from a pig, a lot of bacon, beef.
Practically, I do not eat chicken because it don't have enough fat.

I recommend pigs reared on "household food - what leafs from meal"
that run and not be in pens (in then otherwise accumulate fat)

 

[3DStudent]

I'm under 30 grams of carbs a day, unless I eat something else carby, which is rare. But I need to up the fat it seems. I put a little tallow on my meat and veggies, and drench my sardines in olive oil. But that 80% fat and 20% protein figure made me realize I need more fat. A lot of fat is more so drunk than eaten, so it's weird for me to get energy from a "drink".

As I was growing up, I never liked eating the fat from the meats (texture was disgusting to me) but now I am trying to adjust to eating fat.

Yeah, I like the taste, but I was eating some fatty lamb the other day. And the fat is just really chewy, and after so long I just give up and swallow it because it doesn't break down. :P

I'm wondering about blinis and cakes, etc. Are they pretty much out now? I have about 30-40 grams of "carb buffer" that I could eat, and I have a lot of buckwheat and other flours.

 

[Cosmos]

Thinking about the example of the squirrels and other creatures that put on weight seasonally no matter what they eat, could it be that there are longer "seasons" in cosmic terms, and humanity going fat merely expresses this subliminal knowledge that an Ice Age or cataclysms are coming?

interesting thought indeed.

 

[Nicholas]

I'm under 30 grams of carbs a day, unless I eat something else carby, which is rare. But I need to up the fat it seems. I put a little tallow on my meat and veggies, and drench my sardines in olive oil. But that 80% fat and 20% protein figure made me realize I need more fat. A lot of fat is more so drunk than eaten, so it's weird for me to get energy from a "drink".

As I was growing up, I never liked eating the fat from the meats (texture was disgusting to me) but now I am trying to adjust to eating fat.

Yeah, I like the taste, but I was eating some fatty lamb the other day. And the fat is just really chewy, and after so long I just give up and swallow it because it doesn't break down. :P

I'm wondering about blinis and cakes, etc. Are they pretty much out now? I have about 30-40 grams of "carb buffer" that I could eat, and I have a lot of buckwheat and other flours.

Also, with the ratio 1.2:1:1, if we are limited to 74g of carbs per day, then we must only have 74g of protein per day as well and 88g of fat. That is not very much food at all! I would be worried about loosing more weight but it would reduce my grocery bill.

 

[Don Diego]

Dona Diego is hoping the next step of The diet won't be to eat raw fatty meat! So do I!!!!

 

[seek10]

Posté par: Laura

That emphasizes what we were talking about earlier today here in the house - and which actually comes up quite a bit - HOW to get more fat in ratio to meat. Geeze, the cows have been bred to have less fat... I've asked the butcher to use the fattiest pieces when he makes my ground meat, but it is still not fatty enough. Fat gets trimmed all the time and I've had to put a stop to that. We feel best, it seems, when we eat fatty pork or lamb.

Exactly, grass feed cow are much leaner than grain feed one. The meat we buy is so lean, even the ground meat for burger is as lean as filet mignon. I ordered suet to make pemmican and was wondering what percentage of fat, protein and carbs could be considered to maximize the energy. Every meal I make lately, I add fat either duck or pork from bacon and make a rich sauce so to add more fat. As well, since adding fat in all meal, my stomach feel more full and don't need to eat between meal even if I chop wood all day (literally).

I was also adding duck fat to the red meats I endup buying lean. I hope this leaning will not expand to the chicken and turkeys.

 

[Gawan]

I'm also thinking that, obviously, anti-candida treatments and so on would be obviated completely on this diet. After a few months, there wouldn't be a single candida organism alive in the body!!!

Good point, I wondered about something similar a couple of weeks ago, if it would help against candida, cause almost no carbs are eaten. It's like starving them.

 

[Laura]

Don't jump the gun on the ratio just yet.

Lutz insists that 72 grams of carbs is right, but he also says unlimited quantities of meat - and so do others. But it seems that this meat must come with a bit more fat than any of us are used to. And other fats must be included too, such as butter, the fat in egg yolks and nuts for those who can eat them (but obviously not so much from nuts due to lectins), olive oil, etc. But clearly, fat from animal sources is most desirable. My guess is that the fat to meat ratio should be about 3:1 or more, taken all together.

I think we ought to gather any info we can find on this.