"Life Without Bread"

[Danse la vie]

I had some skin trouble too at the beginning, gone now since mid october.

Danse la vie

 

[Mrs. Peel]

I thought of something else today regarding histamine sensitivity and skin rashes on a low carb diet. It seems to me that it can be a physiological adaptation.

Histamine is produced in certain cells (mast cells in tissues) but also in certain glands of the stomach (oxyntic glands) which happens to be the same place where gastric acid is produced and secreted in response to the right stimulation (i.e. high protein diet).

In addition to that, histamine can increase the secretion of pepsin, which is crucial for protein digestion.

Then we have gastrin, which is a hormone that stimulates secretion of gastric acid (HCl) in the stomach. It also increases the release of histamine.

So more meat on the diet means more secretion of stomach acids and histamine in order to digest it.

A low carb diet tends to deal with food allergies quite effectively since most of them come from the plant kingdom. But if a person is histamine sensitive and doesn't remove potential triggers like spices in meats, there could be allergies. Or if the diet is a zero carb or close to it, there can be rashes as well in certain people, especially at the beginning when the digestive system is adapting to digest meat better.

Just some thoughts.

Funny, I just called the dermatologist today to make an appointment, I've had this itchy rash on my forehead only, for ages now. It gets better and worse, and the last couple weeks have been worse. I've used DMSO on it, take betaine hydrochloric acid, digestive enzymes, magnesium, Vit C, Omega 3s and krill oil, Vit D, milk thistle, boswellia, etc. In the summer, I first thought it was poison ivy.

The dermatologist can't see me till December 12, geeze. It's probably digestive related though.

 

[Palinurus]

A low carb diet tends to deal with food allergies quite effectively since most of them come from the plant kingdom. But if a person is histamine sensitive and doesn't remove potential triggers like spices in meats, there could be allergies. Or if the diet is a zero carb or close to it, there can be rashes as well in certain people, especially at the beginning when the digestive system is adapting to digest meat better.

Just some thoughts.

Thank you for bringing this up, Psyche. From my own experiences and observations over a few decades I can fully affirm these tentative links of yours between histamine sensitivity, low carb eating and higher uptake of meats and fats as I suffered from those myself. I had to eliminate spices almost completely notwithstanding I'm very fond of those and it was a real suffering to have to get rid of them altogether, but I had no choice. I suffered almost constantly from nondescript severe itches all over my body without real rashes following through, so it was quite complicated to find the real causes just because I'm not really allergic to anything - only highly sensitive in a random sort of way (unspecific, as it is called). When we finally came about to experimentally eliminate spices and just stick to salt and some pepper with a few selected herbs added for flavor my condition improved notably and considerably.

Although I've read about other people's experiences in this thread, it never occurred to me there would be a comparable explanation for those until you expressly said so. I simply didn't make the connection within my own mind about these rashes and things being in any way related to my own previous ordeal. Otherwise I would have brought this up on my own. Sorry about that!

So I really think you are on the right track with these thoughts.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

So I really think you are on the right track with these thoughts.

I've always had sensitive skin. If I kneel on the carpet at home, my knees will itch afterwards. I itch a lot after bathing in the late summer when my skin is dryer from sun exposure, but I always attributed that to candida itch and a dust mite allergy. I've always been chronically stuffed up with an extremely poor sense of smell, and occasional hives popping up here and there, but I never considered histamine sensitivity.

 

[pete02]

A low carb diet tends to deal with food allergies quite effectively since most of them come from the plant kingdom. But if a person is histamine sensitive and doesn't remove potential triggers like spices in meats, there could be allergies. Or if the diet is a zero carb or close to it, there can be rashes as well in certain people, especially at the beginning when the digestive system is adapting to digest meat better.

Just some thoughts.

I have to chime in on this one as well. Much thanks to you Psyche for pointing this out as I have had itchy skin quite a bit for some time now. I occasionally have chirizo sausage in the morning with my breakfast which is spicy and I think that might have something to do with it because one time I had some spicy peppers with my dinner and my stomach didn't agree with that at all so I'm starting to believe that spices are a thing of the past for me. I'm going to go back to the regular pork sausages and see if that helps.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Here's another interesting article about histamine sensitivity, although he's not hit the nail on the head when it comes to fruits, etc.

http://thatpaleoguy.blogspot.com/2011/04/histamine-intolerance.html

Sources of Histamine
Histamine and its precursor, histadine (along with other bioactive substances) are present in almost all foods in varying concentrations. However, foods that have been matured or fermented tend to have higher histamine contents. This is due to the bacteria and yeasts that are involved in this maturation and/or fermentation process have the HDC enzyme required for the conversion of histadine (an amino acid – contained in any food with a significant amount of protein) to histamine. High histamine concentrations are found in microbiologically produced foods such as mature cheese, sauerkraut, wine (particularly reds), or microbially contaminated protein-rich food such as fish, meat, and sausages

...Examples of foods/substances that may increase histamine levels resulting in symptoms including digestive problems, headaches and skin rashes are:
Alcohol, particularly red wine and champagne. Also white wine and beer.
Aged, smoked, canned fish and fish sauces. Tuna fish, mackerel, sardines, anchovy, herring, catfish, salmon.
Pizza
Smoked and processed meats such as salami, ham, bratwurst and bacon.

BACON, oh no!!!!

 

[Psalehesost]

Maybe I should look into getting much larger quantities of fat - it's simply been very hard to find here (quality lard, lamb or beef fat - as too much of other fats tried has a clear negative impact; so I pretty much constantly balance the other options, including butter, to not exceed what works "well enough" with them), but it might still be possible - I have one option to look at tomorrow for a possible place to get it, seeing if one shop can bring it in.

I've got a lot of lardy stuff now. Pig fat with just a little meat on it - and very cheap! Just got another batch, and it's proving to be great! Also, have tried another kind of organic butter, and somehow it seems usable in greater quantities without the minor negative effects (tiredness) otherwise occurring.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Doing more research on the rash/histamine sensitivity thingy... Found a picture of something called Urticaria

Chronic urticaria (CU) is a type of hives, also called nettle rash, that lasts for more than six weeks. Shorter bouts of hives are considered acute urticaria, and are treated differently.

Urticaria can be a manifestation of many conditions and illnesses, rather than one illness. Current research has shown that up to half of all CU is autoimmune, which means your body is making antibodies against itself, resulting in activation of basophils and mast cells. When these cells are activated, they release many different chemicals, including histamine, which results in hives, and in some people other allergy-like symptoms as well.

Mine looks something like this on her forehead

http://urticaria.thunderworksinc.com/pages/UrticariaPhotos/face4.html

While the paleo diet mostly eliminates histamine containg foods, I read that meat should be cooked fresh each time it's consumed, that histamine builds up in left-overs, as one would do if one is making a batch of food to eat for the week... :(

 

[Gaby]

Here's another interesting article about histamine sensitivity, although he's not hit the nail on the head when it comes to fruits, etc.

http://thatpaleoguy.blogspot.com/2011/04/histamine-intolerance.html

Sources of Histamine
Histamine and its precursor, histadine (along with other bioactive substances) are present in almost all foods in varying concentrations. However, foods that have been matured or fermented tend to have higher histamine contents. This is due to the bacteria and yeasts that are involved in this maturation and/or fermentation process have the HDC enzyme required for the conversion of histadine (an amino acid – contained in any food with a significant amount of protein) to histamine. High histamine concentrations are found in microbiologically produced foods such as mature cheese, sauerkraut, wine (particularly reds), or microbially contaminated protein-rich food such as fish, meat, and sausages

...Examples of foods/substances that may increase histamine levels resulting in symptoms including digestive problems, headaches and skin rashes are:
Alcohol, particularly red wine and champagne. Also white wine and beer.
Aged, smoked, canned fish and fish sauces. Tuna fish, mackerel, sardines, anchovy, herring, catfish, salmon.
Pizza
Smoked and processed meats such as salami, ham, bratwurst and bacon.

BACON, oh no!!!!

The rashes on this diet are self-limiting, a temporary physiological adaptation. Most of us reported rashes that lasted just a few weeks. As a rule, allergy problems disappear when you do a paleo diet because most triggers come from the plant kingdom. People who continue to have them must think on something they are still eating that can trigger the skin rash. Pepper, cashews, macadamias, other nuts, garlic, onions, spices comes to mind. I literally eat my meats with butter and salt, that is about it. Check out the list of foods in the following link to see if you still are eating it:

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/concen/tipcon/orale.shtml

I think your skin problem comes from something that your body does not tolerate, like a spice.

 

[Gimpy]

I've been searching for information on this, and haven't found it yet. Hubby has recently (a week and a few days) changed to eating as I do: No gluten or other carbs. (He still drinks milk)

He's been having flu like symptoms, but he knew those might happen. The symptom that I don't know the root of? He's getting very cold, icy hands and feet, cold face. When this happens he's home, and I can have him climb in bed and hug him to get him warm again. He's tried wearing a hat, or riding a recumbent exercise bike, but it didn't work very well.

Has anyone else experienced this? I do have periods of cold like this, but nothing this severe, and mine come from sitting still too long. Hubby is usually moving around when this happens.

I'm stumped.

 

[RedFox]

I've been searching for information on this, and haven't found it yet. Hubby has recently (a week and a few days) changed to eating as I do: No gluten or other carbs. (He still drinks milk)

He's been having flu like symptoms, but he knew those might happen. The symptom that I don't know the root of? He's getting very cold, icy hands and feet, cold face. When this happens he's home, and I can have him climb in bed and hug him to get him warm again. He's tried wearing a hat, or riding a recumbent exercise bike, but it didn't work very well.

Has anyone else experienced this? I do have periods of cold like this, but nothing this severe, and mine come from sitting still too long. Hubby is usually moving around when this happens.

I'm stumped.

It'd probably be best if he stuck to some carbs whilst going gluten free....the transition to low carb can be pretty heavy going (and potentially dangerous if your health is not great), so adapting to gluten free would be a good start as it will improve his health over some months. Basically, take it slowly.
That being said, if you've both read the books you'll know how to proceed safely.

As to the cold, you may want to check out transdermal iodine and fish oil. Also l-carnatine, vit-c and other things that help the transition to ketosis.

 

[Laura]

If he has dropped his carbs, then he's trying to change the "fuel" and it takes awhile for the DNA to retool the system. It's better to go at this slowly because it is literally like trying to change out a gas engine for a diesel. In the book, "Life Without Bread", the process is explained in detail. If he's not getting the carbs that the body is used to running on, then he's basically not getting the fuel yet. Either he can wait it out for a couple of weeks, or go more slowly. It would help if he would give up dairy because that just slows everything down because of the opiod binding of the casein. As Gedgaudas says, you can't just do it part way, you have to do it right for it to work.

 

[Gimpy]

If he has dropped his carbs, then he's trying to change the "fuel" and it takes awhile for the DNA to retool the system. It's better to go at this slowly because it is literally like trying to change out a gas engine for a diesel. In the book, "Life Without Bread", the process is explained in detail. If he's not getting the carbs that the body is used to running on, then he's basically not getting the fuel yet. Either he can wait it out for a couple of weeks, or go more slowly. It would help if he would give up dairy because that just slows everything down because of the opiod binding of the casein. As Gedgaudas says, you can't just do it part way, you have to do it right for it to work.

He's a very stubborn man.

Now that he's decided to 'do the diet', he's 'all in'. He told me today that if he tried to go slow, he wouldn't do it at all. I've got the book "Life without Bread" and "Living Low Carb", and am going bookmark sections so he can read up on it.

In addition to the diet, he's also signed us both up at the local Recreation Center for exercise. We used to go often, but back then I wasn't feeling as good as I do now and we ended up
quitting. He's never been one to work out much, other than walking or using a machine, so this should be interesting. ;D This is one area I know he'll adapt to with care. Its just cool to
see the arthritis pain he's been having so many problems with begin to fade away.

 

[SolarMother]

In addition to the diet, he's also signed us both up at the local Recreation Center for exercise. We used to go often, but back then I wasn't feeling as good as I do now and we ended up
quitting. He's never been one to work out much, other than walking or using a machine, so this should be interesting. This is one area I know he'll adapt to with care. Its just cool to
see the arthritis pain he's been having so many problems with begin to fade away.

Gimpy, as long as he doesn't over-do it on exercise/working out while making the gradual switch to low carbs, high fat diet--but you did mention he would be able to adapt to this area with care, so that's good. Light exercise is recommended in most of the books we've been reading, as you probably know.

I am happy to hear that he is already experiencing health benefits!

 

[aragorn]

I've noticed that being on the (very) low carb diet makes me many times more sensitive to wrong stuff I happen to eat. When the symptoms of eating something wrong earlier took 1-2 days to manifest, I now notice it within an hour or so. Luckily I have not eaten wrong many times in the last years, but being at other places than home and having to eat, it sometimes happen.

Yesterday, I was with my son at his kindergarten where they had this autumn fest. Some of the parents had volunteered to make food for everyone. They knew that our son and I are gluten sensitive, but I had forgot to mention about my sensitivity to milk protein. So, they had made this very delicious salmon soup, and partly due to courtesy, I had just a couple of spoonfuls of it, leaving the potatoes and veggies aside. There was a label in front of the bowl saying 'Lactose free', and knowing that it doesn't mean safe - it still can have casein in it, I made the wrong decision to taste it.

Within an hour I felt my brain starting to shrink, making clear thinking difficult and making things seem more gloomy somehow. Right then I knew I had screwed up. As if that wasn't enough, the next morning (today) I woke up with a massive and very nasty ache in my neck. My neck is my 'food barometer', I immediately know when I've eaten something wrong. During the day it just kept getting worse, so in order to stay at least partly functional I took some paracetamol, and did some yoga. The coffee enema later this evening finally put a stop to it.

I'm angry at my self, being so naive and thinking wishfully. As Gedgaudas and other point out, it can take months for the system to get restored. Another lesson learned, I guess. :( I probably should just stick to The List without exceptions.