"Life Without Bread"

nicklebleu said:
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On a different note, having been drinking a lot of buttered tea now for a week or so I noticed, that my magnesium requirements have dropped quite significantly. I had to reduce my magnesium intake to at least half to avoid diarrhoea. This coincided with my venture into buttered tea. This could just be a coincidence, of course, but if others have made the same observation it might merit a closer look.
I have yet to try the 'buttered tea', as I usually drink just water - did have a go at putting water in that :) - the higher intake of fat is likely the cause of magnesium reduction as you surmise. I found the same once I got down to burning fat rather than carbohydrates. This observation, I think, has been reported on the forum.
 
I was somewhat hesitant to try the buttered tea, ..buttered tea?

That just didn`t sound very appealing at all, but I did finally give it a try and was pleasantly surprised because it is really good!
 
And on the subject of MS and diet, as was mentioned by truth seeker, it should probably be seen on an individual case by case basis as to what's "proper" to offer information. And further, what IS the real meaning behind a diagnosis such as MS? I mean, these "disease" designation are quite often a large cluster of symptoms where one "MS patient" may have more of the cluster of symptoms and others will have less, etc. It's hard to come up with a solid definition of a lot of these types of diagnosis. In this example, beyond symptom clusters, MS can further be defined as an autoimmune neurological disease, etc., I guess. But still, to me, it seems there can be a broad spectrum of how it's individually manifested and the different prognosis for each individual case (taking into account what decisions the sufferer makes, as well), etc.

And as also was mentioned, there's at least one MS sufferer forum member who's seen quite positive results from the dietary changes.


I've had MS since December of 2000. ;) And I agree with what's been said here about it, regarding that it is more a grouping of symptoms and statistical points than any kind of hard and fast rule or facts.

People deal with the stress of having a chronic disease just as individually. The medical establishment has a compulsion to put 'patients' into groups or label them in order to keep trying out drugs to treat symptoms. Over time I've learned that doctors are bombarded with this attitude by drug companies to the point its difficult for them to 'think outside the box.'

The same can be said of MS patients: we are all bombarded from the moment of diagnosis with more information (much of it garbage) than we can reasonably process.

I did what the doctors and neurologist advised, and discovered that doing so lead to a quicker decline, and disability. But it wasn't until I was unable to work anymore that I finally had the time to do my own research into diet. That part is important. Before then, it was all I could manage to get out of bed, go to work, sort of manage the household, and repeat that process.

If your house mate has children, or is still working, Muxel, she likely has no energy to spare to even think through the information you're trying to give her. It is natural for her to stick with a routine that works for her day to day. She won't like anything that makes that tougher.

There's no harm in being supportive or externally considerate of her situation. The last thing she needs? Unasked for advice and a clear need to 'fix her'.

Depending on what symptoms she has, the diet changes would need to be done very slowly, in addition to weaning off medications. That is so individual it shouldn't be done without some kind of help from a nurse practitioner or other medical person. Again, it all depends on her energy level, and if she even wants to try.

The biggest change for me re the diet? Clearer thinking, improved attitude, and much less daily physical pain. It doesn't matter to me if the diet changes eventually 'cure' me. Its the day to day benefits that keep me working on diet, exercise, etc.

That is a key point to bear in mind when someone in your life has a chronic illness: "Cure" is a trigger word for "snake-oil". Its the 'little things' that matter more...day to day functioning is trackable. It can be felt, seen, noted on a calendar. "Cure" is an abused concept, so much so, I never use it.

Over time, its become clearer to me why people feel compelled to 'fix' the chronically ill: insecurity, helplessness, and a primal fear that its possible you could one day get sick too.

Any time you feel that compulsion to offer unasked for advice, stop, and follow it back to the real reason, so you can work on it. :flowers:
 
Gimpy said:
Over time, its become clearer to me why people feel compelled to 'fix' the chronically ill: insecurity, helplessness, and a primal fear that its possible you could one day get sick too.

Very beautifully said, Gimpy ...

I think you hit the nail on its head: We are all faced with our own fears and mortality and are trying to exorcise our own demons by trying to "cure" others ... we are just trying to persuade ourselves.
I am guilty of this as well, so thanks for putting your finger so aptly on this!
 
Green tea with mint and a big knob of butter is delicious. It's a really useful meal in a cup kind of snack. A revelation! Thanks for suggesting it.
 
I like chamomile and nettle tea with plenty of butter as it really helps me to boost transition to fat metabolism. A balm for stomach, indeed!
 
Gimpy said:
That is a key point to bear in mind when someone in your life has a chronic illness: "Cure" is a trigger word for "snake-oil". Its the 'little things' that matter more...day to day functioning is trackable. It can be felt, seen, noted on a calendar. "Cure" is an abused concept, so much so, I never use it.

Thank you, Gimpy. I've also had a terrible obsession over finding a "cure" for every problem in my life. It seems to be some kind of emotional addiction that works in endlessly repeating cycles. It's more about appeasing the emotions rather than taking steps that may (or may not) manifest real changes in one's life. Or so I think...
 
My housemate doesn't have kids and she's been out of work for many years, but yeah she's fashioned a "routine", in a sense, and anything out of it can be very distressing for her. Due to past financial problems, she barely gets by each month. The last time I tried to push the Paleo Diet onto her was when I offered some of my bacon. Now the urge is gone. Thanks Gimpy. (To clarify, truth seeker, I consoled myself by thinking "well she keeps herself balanced this way" instead of seeing it for what it was, as true STO would've done. Seeing it as part of her learning really helps!) And now that you mention it, "cure" is a silly vague term that assumes a binary of Ideal-Orion-Prototype and Failed-Orion.

I'd like to report increased clearheadedness, not from cutting out casein, but from exercising a bit of patience and revising out my initial reactions, before posting.

Megan said:
Somewhere I have heard that every message we put out is a message to ourselves, and I have never seen evidence to the contrary.
That's true, both in the sense that everybody else is a manifestation of ourselves as Prime Creator, and in the sense that you meant.

truth seeker said:
Is that the case and if so, can you say why?
I don't know, at least not right now. It's like SeekinTruth said about proving I'm valuable to the forum...


On a happier (or more boring) note, is the cellulose in vitamin tablets significant enough to destroy my ketogenic diet? Maybe I should've gone with liquids, e.g. Lugol's instead of Iodoral.
 
Muxel said:
On a happier (or more boring) note, is the cellulose in vitamin tablets significant enough to destroy my ketogenic diet? Maybe I should've gone with liquids, e.g. Lugol's instead of Iodoral.

Muxel,

Cellulose won't destroy your ketogenic diet, because cellulose doesn't get metabolized to sugars in the human body.
Only ruminants and other animals seem to have this ability ....
 
Muxel said:
...On a happier (or more boring) note, is the cellulose in vitamin tablets significant enough to destroy my ketogenic diet? Maybe I should've gone with liquids, e.g. Lugol's instead of Iodoral.

My experience has been that the ketogenic diet can be highly stable, once established. The New Atkins book talks about an "ACE" (Atkins Carbohydrate Equilibrium) level of carb intake. While I have not tried to find my personal level (which might be somewhere beyond 70 g/d), the idea is that you will maintain the diet if you stay below your ACE level, which for some people may be quite high. There is more information about this in the Atkins book.

This view does not take into account the anti-nutrients that extra carbs may contain, and I would not recommend pushing the limit.
 
nicklebleu said:
On a different note, having been drinking a lot of buttered tea now for a week or so I noticed, that my magnesium requirements have dropped quite significantly. I had to reduce my magnesium intake to at least half to avoid diarrhoea.
Is diarrhea a common indicator of magnesium overload? I'm wondering what other signs there may be to indicate ones magnesium requirement levels.
 
parallel said:
nicklebleu said:
On a different note, having been drinking a lot of buttered tea now for a week or so I noticed, that my magnesium requirements have dropped quite significantly. I had to reduce my magnesium intake to at least half to avoid diarrhoea.
Is diarrhea a common indicator of magnesium overload? I'm wondering what other signs there may be to indicate ones magnesium requirement levels.

In this case, it's not necessarily a sign of magnesium overload. It's probably from the increased fat consumption causing loose stools. Cutting back on magnesium will help, but it doesn't necessarily have a direct link to magnesium status.
 
SeekinTruth said:
parallel said:
nicklebleu said:
On a different note, having been drinking a lot of buttered tea now for a week or so I noticed, that my magnesium requirements have dropped quite significantly. I had to reduce my magnesium intake to at least half to avoid diarrhoea.
Is diarrhea a common indicator of magnesium overload? I'm wondering what other signs there may be to indicate ones magnesium requirement levels.

In this case, it's not necessarily a sign of magnesium overload. It's probably from the increased fat consumption causing loose stools. Cutting back on magnesium will help, but it doesn't necessarily have a direct link to magnesium status.

I would agree. I had the same experience as nicklebleu with the buttered tea. I cut down on vit C though, instead of magnesium.
 
parallel said:
nicklebleu said:
On a different note, having been drinking a lot of buttered tea now for a week or so I noticed, that my magnesium requirements have dropped quite significantly. I had to reduce my magnesium intake to at least half to avoid diarrhoea.
Is diarrhea a common indicator of magnesium overload? I'm wondering what other signs there may be to indicate ones magnesium requirement levels.

Actually, if you are not experimenting with other things, such as buttered-tea ;), having loose bowels is a sign of too much magnesium. If you are experimenting with how much magnesium to take, and not doing anything else that you have not done before, and have loose bowels, then cut back on the magnesium a bit and see what happens.
 
Nienna Eluch said:
Actually, if you are not experimenting with other things, such as buttered-tea ;), having loose bowels is a sign of too much magnesium. If you are experimenting with how much magnesium to take, and not doing anything else that you have not done before, and have loose bowels, then cut back on the magnesium a bit and see what happens.

Taking magnesium glycinate may help as well. I believe The Magnesium Miracle says something to the effect that it may have less of a laxative effect. It seems to work that way for me, anyway.
 
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