"Life Without Bread"

[Gimpy]

Received a copy of my blood test results. Here's what the cholesterol part looked like:

Total Cholesterol: 154 Range: 100-199

HDL: 67 Range: > 39

LDL: 70 Range: 0-99

Triglycerides: 84 Range: 0-149

VLDL: 17 Range: 5-40


And I eat bacon every morning, and drink the leftover fat. Not too bad!

(Mods...having computer issues on this end, got a double post. Apologies! )

 

[Psalehesost]

I had to stop drinking coffee because the caffeine gave me serious heart palpitations, not to mention messing with my insulin. I found that I had the same evil effects drinking decaf! Tea has never, ever bothered me. And if I decide not to drink it at all, which I have done now and again, I don't have a single craving for it. So something is up with that.

Reasonably, then, it may be concluded that caffeine was not the culprit in the first place, but rather something else that remains in coffee, caffeine or not.

And it seems, from what some here have written - and also mentioned in books like Primal Body, Primal Mind - that sensitivities to coffee in itself is common.

 

[paralleloscope]

Don't have much to report but I'm at the highest level of overall energy and mental clarity that I've ever been with only meat/fat, tea/xylitol and vitamins/supplements. When starting school a few weeks ago I for a couple of days fell back into the old coffee habit to wake those neurons up, but it to no suprise made me sleepy for the rest of the day and upset my gut so stopped again. Then I started daily doing a tablespoon cod liver oil in the mornings (as opposed to afternoons once in a while) which has turned the tables on how fresh and vigilant I am in that dense wifi environment. I also started bringing a thermus done with 2 organic earlgrey bags and a tag along supplement container with xylitol- cheap and enjoyable.

 

[nicklebleu]

I have now been drinking buttered tea for about a week and have noticed a few things I'd like to report:

The most obvious thing is that after two cups of buttered green tea in the morning (approx. 25 g of butter each) I don't have any hunger at all - so I have skipped my usual bacon and eggs in the morning. Even at lunchtime I need to make a conscious decision to eat. And no cravings at all ...

The other thing that is possibly related is that I wake up early in the morning, much earlier than I am used to (0630 vs 0830). Sleep quality is mainly the same, no noticeable change here. This gives me more time in the morning to do stuff, which is great. I never used to be an early riser at all ...

I am really happy that I heard about buttered tea and it is now one of my main staple (and pleasures). I will definitely carry on with it and let you know if longterm there are any other changes that I notice.

 

[Muxel]

I guess some folks love their own misery.

Although you meant well, that wasn't very STO, Lilou. My housemate has MS and she knows I'm on the "high-fat diet". I've nudged her with diet tips before, but she'd just get annoyed with me. To roughly paraphrase her words: "I know what to eat [to keep myself steady]." And it's true. Sure, the high-fat diet could "cure" her MS, but remember that MS patients are medicated to the extreme...they're on this precarious balance already. Making the transition could kill her. It's not as simple as walking up to people in wheelchairs and asking them to change their diet.

Watch to see if there's a crash after the "up", for instance.

But if you just keep drinking it without letting yourself crash....it'll turn into a chemical dependency....then you'd be forced to drink it all the time....wait....oh my god that's exactly what the Tibetans do!!! *horror film track plays*

Thank you for pointing out the caffeine issue, dugdeep. That was the reason I dropped tea. The Tibetans use Pu-erh tea to make their butter tea. My dad has always maintained that Pu-erh tea was the best kind of tea there was. As a young boy, drinking just one glass of Pu-erh after dinner meant difficulty falling asleep that night. That speaks for just how strong (or how caffeinated?) Pu-erh tea is. But maybe tea and butter somehow cancel each other out? Tea has chlorogenic acids that can act as opioid antagonists, while butter has casein which is an opioid agonist.


As for Laura and her coffee-insulin problem:

Even at lunchtime I need to make a conscious decision to eat. And no cravings at all ...

Now that's what I was talking about when I said "feeling neither hunger nor satiation"! :)
Although I do agree with you, Psalehesost, when you said this:

I think following these indications provided by the body for the fulfilling of its basic needs for maintenance is just natural, normal, and healthy.

Reducing the intensity of our body's indications, keeping it at optimum, in a kind of stasis, would free us up to pursue "essence" activities. And perhaps if people weren't mechanically driven by hunger to the act of eating, they would be more conscious about how they were taking from Mother Nature.

 

[nicklebleu]

So there we go. Quinides.

Thanks for digging this info out! That's fascinating stuff!

That would explain why some people still get an arousal reaction to decaffeinated coffee.

I wonder what the interaction would be between grain/ dairy and coffee consumption (as in our culture these two things very often go hand in hand) - being that the arousal reaction to decaf coffee would be stronger in people eating a lot of grains, thus stimulating their opiate receptors on a much greater scale. This would lead to a quicker and heavier withdrawal reaction to quinides.

 

[Muxel]

I wonder what the interaction would be between grain/ dairy and coffee consumption (as in our culture these two things very often go hand in hand) - being that the arousal reaction to decaf coffee would be stronger in people eating a lot of grains, thus stimulating their opiate receptors on a much greater scale. This would lead to a quicker and heavier withdrawal reaction to quinides.

OMG you're right! I didn't think of that. Constant overdose of opioids (gluten) > brain adapts by having less opioid receptors > small dose of quinides is enough to block all those receptors lol.

But I think the quinide-insulin connection is also significant.
[quote author=http://www.coffee-makers-et-cetera.com/coffee-health.html]Among the antioxidants in coffee is a compound called quinine. Quinine increases the body's sensitivity to insulin. Along with other antioxidants like chlorogenic acid and tocopherols and minerals like magnesium (all of which are also found in coffee), quinine helps metabolize glucose as well.[/quote]
Americans love their coffee-and-donut. Coffee helps them out with donut's blood glucose spike, so coffee-drinking could be a subconscious habit. My housemate-with-MS subsists on glucose alone, and she drinks a lotta coffee.
[quote author=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070821143629.htm]"Roasting is the key factor driving bitter taste in coffee beans. So the stronger you roast the coffee, the more harsh it tends to get," Hofmann says, adding that prolonged roasting triggers a cascade of chemical reactions that lead to the formation of the most intense bitter compounds.

Using advanced chromatography techniques and a human sensory panel trained to detect coffee bitterness, Hofmann and his associates found that coffee bitterness is due to two main classes of compounds: chlorogenic acid lactones (A.K.A. quinides) and phenylindanes, both of which are antioxidants found in roasted coffee beans. The compounds are not present in green (raw) beans, the researchers note. (Everybody knows quinine—the famous malaria cure—is bitter, right? This whole article is saying quinides produced from the roasting process are the sole reason that coffee is bitter.)

"We've known for some time that the chlorogenic acid lactones are present in coffee, but their role as a source of bitterness was not known until now," Hofmann says. Ironically, the lactones (A.K.A. quinides) as well as the phenylindanes are derived from chlorogenic acid, which is not itself bitter.[/quote]
I think humans have, evolutionarily or genetically, learned to associate bitterness with poison. Poison can be "good", meaning it can have medicinal value. (Like carnivorous animals using plants as laxatives.) Surely, bitterness is how the Quechua people identified cinchona bark to have medicinal properties (unless the Lizzies told them directly). Modern "coffee" is just that—quinine medicine! The carb-guzzlers who down coffee everyday are self-medicating. Subconsciously, they seek out that bitterness, because the bitterness tells their sick bodies it's medicine.

 

[Oxajil]

Sure, the high-fat diet could "cure" her MS, but remember that MS patients are medicated to the extreme...they're on this precarious balance already. Making the transition could kill her. It's not as simple as walking up to people in wheelchairs and asking them to change their diet.

I don't think Lilou meant it that way, atleast that's not how I understood it. There is no way that someone can transition overnight, it has to happen gradually, and not all at once. So I don't see how the transition could kill her, if steps would be taken slowly, and with enough understanding. Plus some possible help from a professional for check-up's.

 

[Nienna]

Sure, the high-fat diet could "cure" her MS, but remember that MS patients are medicated to the extreme...they're on this precarious balance already. Making the transition could kill her. It's not as simple as walking up to people in wheelchairs and asking them to change their diet.

I don't think Lilou meant it that way, atleast that's not how I understood it. There is no way that someone can transition overnight, it has to happen gradually, and not all at once. So I don't see how the transition could kill her, if steps would be taken slowly, and with enough understanding. Plus some possible help from a professional for check-up's.

And, we have at least one MS sufferer here who has transitioned slowly to the low carbs/high fat diet and has had some benefits from it.

Your reply seemed to be rather emotionally filled, Muxel. You were reacting to something you thought was implied, but was not what was actually meant. You are very reactionary to things you think you know, which has been pointed out to you on several occasions. When you start to feel self-righteous, it may be good for you to take a couple of steps back, and think with your intellect instead of your emotions.

 

[Muxel]

When you start to feel self-righteous, it may be good for you to take a couple of steps back, and think with your intellect instead of your emotions.

I'm glad you saw that. When I respond too fast, I'm on autopilot because Muxel is in the lavatory or flirting with the married stewardesses.


Many times I've wishfully thought how my housemate-with-MS could cure herself with diet. Perhaps in finally accepting the choice she's made of her own free will, I tried to justify it as being "good". But I do admire how she keeps herself strangely balanced, despite the brain-modifying drugs. If I divided people whom I encountered into The Thinking and The Non-Thinking, she would be first on the Thinking list. And for that I owe her much. Part of me wants to prescribe diet changes to every MS sufferer in the world, the other part is afraid to touch what existing balance they may have constructed for themselves. Long story short, it's simply a matter of free will and I'm rambling again...

 

[truth seeker]

Perhaps in finally accepting the choice she's made of her own free will, I tried to justify it as being "good".

Sorry, but can you clarify? Do you mean your acceptance being good or her being good?

Also, maybe if you can view her specific situation as being a lesson (for her), the way we all have lessons, it may begin to make more sense.

While I appreciate the ideas you bring to the forum, I sometimes get the feeling that you may feel you need to have the answers or be intelligent/right in order to be accepted. Is that the case and if so, can you say why?

 

[anart]

When you start to feel self-righteous, it may be good for you to take a couple of steps back, and think with your intellect instead of your emotions.

I'm glad you saw that. When I respond too fast, I'm on autopilot because Muxel is in the lavatory or flirting with the married stewardesses.

Perhaps a 3 hour wait before you reply to any post that you want to reply to might be a good first step since you have trouble controlling yourself. It will allow you time to gain some perspective before posting.

 

[mcb]

I'm glad you saw that. When I respond too fast, I'm on autopilot because Muxel is in the lavatory or flirting with the married stewardesses.

Perhaps a 3 hour wait before you reply to any post that you want to reply to might be a good first step since you have trouble controlling yourself. It will allow you time to gain some perspective before posting.

Previewing the reply is helpful as well. Look for alternate interpretations. Read it as you would someone else's message. Notice any feelings that come up.

Somewhere I have heard that every message we put out is a message to ourselves, and I have never seen evidence to the contrary.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Perhaps in finally accepting the choice she's made of her own free will, I tried to justify it as being "good".

Sorry, but can you clarify? Do you mean your acceptance being good or her being good?

Also, maybe if you can view her specific situation as being a lesson (for her), the way we all have lessons, it may begin to make more sense.

While I appreciate the ideas you bring to the forum, I sometimes get the feeling that you may feel you need to have the answers or be intelligent/right in order to be accepted. Is that the case and if so, can you say why?

Yes, it might be that you have a program running where you need to "prove" your intelligence, that you have the answers, and thus "prove" you are valuable to the forum. Like truth seeker said, this may be because you feel this is necessary to be accepted. So might be something to look into deeper and work on. Also I try to remember and accept that I'm NOT as intelligent as I'd like to be (and project a self image of being) and that I DON'T have all the answers -- that's why I'm here. :) That reminder might also help you.

I'm glad you saw that. When I respond too fast, I'm on autopilot because Muxel is in the lavatory or flirting with the married stewardesses.

Perhaps a 3 hour wait before you reply to any post that you want to reply to might be a good first step since you have trouble controlling yourself. It will allow you time to gain some perspective before posting.

Previewing the reply is helpful as well. Look for alternate interpretations. Read it as you would someone else's message. Notice any feelings that come up.

Somewhere I have heard that every message we put out is a message to ourselves, and I have never seen evidence to the contrary.

I think these are very good ideas, especially using the preview function and taking time to read your post as if it was someone else's message before posting (and editing as needed). With some effort, you might see certain things before you post.


And on the subject of MS and diet, as was mentioned by truth seeker, it should probably be seen on an individual case by case basis as to what's "proper" to offer information. And further, what IS the real meaning behind a diagnosis such as MS? I mean, these "disease" designation are quite often a large cluster of symptoms where one "MS patient" may have more of the cluster of symptoms and others will have less, etc. It's hard to come up with a solid definition of a lot of these types of diagnosis. In this example, beyond symptom clusters, MS can further be defined as an autoimmune neurological disease, etc., I guess. But still, to me, it seems there can be a broad spectrum of how it's individually manifested and the different prognosis for each individual case (taking into account what decisions the sufferer makes, as well), etc.

And as also was mentioned, there's at least one MS sufferer forum member who's seen quite positive results from the dietary changes.

 

[nicklebleu]

I also think one should not forget that the label "MS" refers to a specific neuropathological entity (demyelinisation of brain neurons) with a wide variety of symptoms (depending on where the demyelinisation occurs - demyelinisation means the loss of myelin, the "insulating material" around nerve fibres). In allopathic medicine it is stipulated, that one disease has always the same etiology. I think that this is incorrect. A cause can lead to different diseases and a disease can have a different etiology in different people. This means that in one particular person the cause of the disease might be more than just a defective diet - toxicity to heavy metals, to pesticides, allergies or sensitivity issues, lack of vitamin D, psychological problems and what not.

While I am sure that an optimal diet certainly will enhance the symptoms of most MS sufferers, I am not sure that this alone is sufficient - care needs to be taken to look at the entire human being and his or her circumstances.

On a different note, having been drinking a lot of buttered tea now for a week or so I noticed, that my magnesium requirements have dropped quite significantly. I had to reduce my magnesium intake to at least half to avoid diarrhoea. This coincided with my venture into buttered tea. This could just be a coincidence, of course, but if others have made the same observation it might merit a closer look.