"Life Without Bread"

[Mikey]

Maize flour, Rice flour....pea protein... emulsifier E471-

Maize, Rice and peas all contain their own form of gluten. "Gluten free" is just another false claim and trap. Not to speak of the carbs and the emulsifier.

 

[Nienna]

Maize flour, Rice flour....pea protein... emulsifier E471-

Maize, Rice and peas all contain their own form of gluten. "Gluten free" is just another false claim and trap. Not to speak of the carbs and the emulsifier.

Exactly! It really isn't any better than eating bread or pasta made from wheat. If you really want to go paleo, you need to cut all grains first, and cutting dairy would be good, too. I guess for some butter and heavy cream are okay as it is the fat of the milk. It takes 6 months for this stuff to entirely leave the body, so having just a "little" does not do any good as it is still in your system, and takes another 6 months to eliminate it. They really do a body (and mind) harm. ;)

 

[loreta]

Maize flour, Rice flour....pea protein... emulsifier E471-

Maize, Rice and peas all contain their own form of gluten. "Gluten free" is just another false claim and trap. Not to speak of the carbs and the emulsifier.

Exactly! It really isn't any better than eating bread or pasta made from wheat. If you really want to go paleo, you need to cut all grains first, and cutting dairy would be good, too. I guess for some butter and heavy cream are okay as it is the fat of the milk. It takes 6 months for this stuff to entirely leave the body, so having just a "little" does not do any good as it is still in your system, and takes another 6 months to eliminate it. They really do a body (and mind) harm. ;)

Thanks. Today I put aside all my pastas. I will really cut all grains. Dairy products are cut since some moths ago.

Loreta

 

[SeekinTruth]

My problem with Paul Jaminet's interview was that his claim for optimal macro-nutrient intake including 20 - 25% carbs would make it impossible to go into and stay in ketosis. If we remain in glucose metabolism, there's no way to really live optimally.

Since we are creatures if Ice Age, how on earth could we have eaten that much carbs in our evolutionary history for any extended period of time?

I'm looking forward to Nora Gedgaudas' video (and it says on the site that she'll be refuting most of what Paul Jaminet said). It's not up yet. And unfortunately, I missed Dr. Jack Kruse's -- it's not available anymore, but I'm going to his blog to read now. Starting with his latest post.

Yeah, like I said, his views on carbs don't vibe with our perspective, but everything else he had to say was pretty spot on, OSIT. Dr. Jack Kruse's presentation was interesting - all about the hormone leptin and what controls it. After listening to his presentation, though, I went and read his latest blog post and found it to be extremely long, meandering and lacking real data. 80% of the post was completely unneccesary, detailing how he got his inspiration, giving vague metaphors about things like 'northern and southern India are like ying and yang', and other strangeness. He seems unnable to synthesize his ideas down to communicate them to his audience. And the actual meat of the post was extremely vague. It's kind of hard to sort out what he's actually saying and a lot of it sounds like wishful thinking. [Note: just saw SeekinTruth's post and he seems to have distilled the post rather well.]

Here's the link if anyone is interested - _http://jackkruse.com/the-holy-trinity-ct-4/

All that said, I find his idea of "cold adaptation" to be intriguing. He says that living in the cold adapts the body so that it no longer relies on leptin signaling for hunger signals and no longer uses the thyroid for body signaling as those functions are taken over by the brain. He offers no backup of these points however.

Anyway, his followers, who seem a bit overly enthusiastic given how little backup he actually seems to be revealing, are all plunging themselves in ice baths, wearing nothing but t-shirts in the winter and keeping themselves covered in ice on their daily commutes. Kind of odd, to say the least.

But, I have come across the idea of using cold to promote health in the past (or at least weight loss). In Tim Ferriss' book "The 4 Hour Body" he talks about people using cold baths or putting cold packs on the back of their necks to increase the body's store of brown fat and increase metabolism and therefore weight loss. He doesn't say anything about changing the body's use of leptin or thyroid hormone, though.

[...]
I dunno. It's all kind of interesting. Considering we are children of the ice age, it makes sense that the body may have certain adaptations to living in cold that may actually be advantageous. But without any more actual data, it's really just taking it on faith. Tim Ferriss has some interesting research, but it's all geared towards weight loss. Since there are many unhealthy ways to lose weight, nothing he's written really indicates this is how the body optimally functions. I'm going to keep an eye on Dr. Kruse to see if gets any more clear about the science behind it all.

[Edit: the forum software keeps clipping my posts, so I`m trying to add the rest back in

Some of this stuff is really interesting, indeed. There are citations at the end of each blog post of Dr. Kruse's. I looked at his "Evolution of the Leptin Rx (thermogenisis protocols for cold adaptation, etc.)" and there are citations at the end of that, and has many similar things you posted by Tim Ferriss above including links to Ray Cronise videos, etc. He also started off focusing on weight loss for himself, but as a neurosurgeon, he's treating many of his patients very differently and very successfully he claims because of his discoveries concerning this "hidden pathway" that can be activated and supposedly leads to optimal health and longevity regardless of how much you eat (gives examples of very high caloric intake for top athletes and very low for Sherpas and Monks in the Himalayas -- but always ketogenic diets). He keeps claiming that others who have experimented with some of what he's discussing are missing the bigger picture, etc.

I'm going to go through "THE QUILT," probably tomorrow. It seems to lay out his whole overview of what effects human health -- what seems to be his detailed account of human biology.

I watched Nora Gedgaudas' interview. It's definitely worth watching and she announces at the end some new things she'll be releasing soon, e.g. a practical workbook. I also want to watch Mat Lalonde's.

 

[Gawan]

After taking out stevia it got better. But yesterday I did cook a 2 kg meat pot with a bit of vinegar essence, so the consequence was also waking up tonight with stomach pain and which continued in the morning and got worse till the afternoon and then slowly got better again.

And the back-pain starts with the stomach pain and is interrelated in a way. So it looks like the 2kg meat is of waste. Some minutes ago I took again a digestive enzyme in the hope it is getting better, cause I have an appointment for side job in some hours. Maybe it is also a bit psychosomatic, cause I don't like that side job too much, but made the decision to give as much energy to the job for finishing two projects and it is also the last month where I'm working on it.

After severals hours later, it doesn't matter what I'm eating (I got pretty hungry in the evening and ate some green beans with butter and some salmon), the stomach pain comes back and is now combined with shoulder pain. Looks like I got a bug or something.

 

[Laura]

After severals hours later, it doesn't matter what I'm eating (I got pretty hungry in the evening and ate some green beans with butter and some salmon), the stomach pain comes back and is now combined with shoulder pain. Looks like I got a bug or something.

There was a bug making the rounds in the house here and hit a couple of people and the symptoms were back pain and some stomach problems including vomiting. The back pain was, as I understand it, pretty intense.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

When I registered for the Paleo Summit last week they emailed me two videos that are still up. I think the interviews were really informative and would like to add them to this thread:

The Primal Blueprint with Mark Sisson: _http://vimeo.com/33622882

Gary Taubes - Why We Get Fat: _http://vimeo.com/36448893

Also, all of the presentations are on sale now at _paleosummit.com

The Summit Upgrade Package is now
available for purchase. When you upgrade,
you will receive instant access to...

* All 23 video slideshow presentations (m4v format)
* All 23 audio presentations (mp3 format)
* Over 300 pages of summit transcripts

So now you can view, listen to, and read each
and every presentation at your leisure --
even the ones that haven't been posted yet!

With your purchase, you will also receive
FREE bonus ebooks, videos, and discount
codes from presenters Paul Chek, Dallas &
Melissa Hartwig, Diane Sanfillipo, Sarah
Fragoso, Keith Norris, and Dr. Cate Shanahan!

And it’s available to you for a special event-week
price of ONLY $67!

I also found this video that is relevant to the thread:

Celiac Disease & Gluten Sensitivity with Dr. O'Bryan: _http://vimeo.com/33623034

 

[suelarue]

After severals hours later, it doesn't matter what I'm eating (I got pretty hungry in the evening and ate some green beans with butter and some salmon), the stomach pain comes back and is now combined with shoulder pain. Looks like I got a bug or something.

Gawan, I just thought I'd mention that the symptoms I experienced when I had gall stones, before I had my gall bladder removed, were similar to what you described. Sharp stomach pains that would most often start at night (it felt like a spear was being pushed through my torso) and subsided during the day. It was also more noticeable after a meal with fat. Shoulder pain is also a common symptom as well, though my pain was more in between my shoulder blades.

I'm definitely not saying that this is what you have, but if the symptoms continue or get worse, you may want to consider getting this checked out.


Edit: Fixed quote

 

[mcb]

Would you say it could be worth the $67? Does it add substantially to what we have already been reading?

The material sounds interesting but watching it this week is not an option for me. I'm just trying to get an idea of whether it would be worthwhile, and others might be wondering as well.

 

[theos]

I dunno. It's all kind of interesting. Considering we are children of the ice age, it makes sense that the body may have certain adaptations to living in cold that may actually be advantageous. But without any more actual data, it's really just taking it on faith. Tim Ferriss has some interesting research, but it's all geared towards weight loss. Since there are many unhealthy ways to lose weight, nothing he's written really indicates this is how the body optimally functions. I'm going to keep an eye on Dr. Kruse to see if gets any more clear about the science behind it all.

I've been reading through some of Dr. Kruse's posts as well and I find what he's saying about cold thermogenesis to be quite interesting. His posts can be kind of rambling and you have to kinda infer quite a bit as to what he is trying to say. It is helpful to read the comments underneath the posts as Dr. Kruse does respond to them often clarifying what he was trying to say. He does have a book coming out so we can only see how clear he will be in it.

In considering BAT activation, maybe this is how that Swedish dude survived for two months in his snow covered car. His diet seemed quite poor (eating hot dogs and drinking coffee) but perhaps he was lean enough to have enough activated BAT to keep him alive during that time. In researching a bit about BAT, I've read that lean people have more BAT activation than obese. In the obese BAT is hardly functioning at all. Seeing as how the ice age returneth this cold thermogenesis might prove to be a good method of preparing for what's to come. At least it wouldn't hurt to try...yet again it would. I've tried some cold baths since reading on these topics and man, talk about intentional suffering! It's gotten easier and I've noticed a bit of increased tolerance to the cold as well as feelings of heatedness on my body throughout the day. One weird thing is an itchy/prickly sensation on my upper butt at times when I'm driving.

Here's a link on BAT activation through cold:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0808718

Also a really long article on BAT where the authors review the scientific literature. There are loads of scientific articles in the citations at the end.
http://physrev.physiology.org/content/84/1/277.long#A. Brown Adipose Tissue and Humans

Edit: another article on cold induced BAT activation
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304506904575180053884870776.html

 

[ScarletBegonias]

Would you say it could be worth the $67? Does it add substantially to what we have already been reading?

The material sounds interesting but watching it this week is not an option for me. I'm just trying to get an idea of whether it would be worthwhile, and others might be wondering as well.

I think $67 seems like a fair price if the quality of the other videos are good. I'm also curious what the e-books and bonus videos would contain. Also, just to let you know, the videos are done in PowerPoint format.

 

[Renaissance]

Would you say it could be worth the $67? Does it add substantially to what we have already been reading?

The material sounds interesting but watching it this week is not an option for me. I'm just trying to get an idea of whether it would be worthwhile, and others might be wondering as well.

I think $67 seems like a fair price if the quality of the other videos are good. I'm also curious what the e-books and bonus videos would contain. Also, just to let you know, the videos are done in PowerPoint format.

I've been watching some of these. While I think some are great, I'm not sure I'd shell out $67 for them. I've noticed that for the past couple of months Sean Croxton has been utilizing lot of internet marketing tactics, which can be a bit of a turn off. He's also given air time to one presentation that 'debunks the Paleo diet' in order to 'hear both sides'. I think he's in part just stirring the pot to whip up controversy. His show didn't always focus on Paleo either and some of his fans don't like that focus, so I think he is trying to appease as well. I think a good portion of his podcasts are informative and I think he's an excellent interviewer but more and more it seems like he is focusing on fame and fortune rather than content.

That said, if anyone has the chance to listen to Nora's presentation, it is up until 12pm PST today and really worth it. There's currently a trend in the Paleo community towards supporting carbs and 'safe starches' and she lays out a good amount of science that shows the reality of the situation.

Denise Minger is presenting tomorrow and she wrote some popular articles that really got to the heart of the China Study nonsense.

Chris Kresser is also presenting tomorrow and he usually has pretty informative things to say. However, he recently has been moving in the direction of the 'safe starch' agenda and Gaby recently had a great Focus peice that mentioned his blog where he described the pitfalls of fiber... only to fall into the pit himself at the end of his article! His presentation is on cholesterol myths though, so I think that might be worth listening to.

I'd also like to check out Jimmy Moore's presentation on Saturday. He just put up a blog post the other day that refutes the 'safe starch' nonsense and it's up on SOTT here. It's jam packed with some pretty interesting stuff. Some of it relates to the current discussion on thermogenesis too.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Thanks for the SOTT link to Jimmy Moore's blog post, Shane -- I'll be reading it. And I agree with you overall about the mix of presentations at Paleo Summit. Some of it is pretty disappointing as it's quite far from being truly Paleo.

My interest in Dr. Kruse's theories / hypotheses is in his claims of a hidden pathway in humans (and most mammals) that can be activated for super health and longevity, although people struggling with weigh loss may also see great benefits as he and his patients have experienced. FWIW.

 

[Muxel]

Hmm...does that mean the naked Celt warriors had lots of BAT?

BAT is more mitochondria-dense, and thus more iron-dense...makes me think about mitochondria. mtDNA is a "ring"—could it be the Nibelung's Ring? A.k.a Ilmarinen's sampo? (Btw the sampo has got to be a ring, Lönnrot's "mill" interpretation is silly.) Or maybe the "ring" here is a "ring of protons" in the mitochondria: protons going out of the mitochondrial matrix via the ETC, protons coming back in via UCP1, while energy is released as heat.

And how would BAT thermogenesis reflect 4D, assuming it does?


Just sticking this in here:
[quote author=http://www.thinandslimnaturally.com/thermogenesis.html]While scientists were trying to understand and explain the concept of thermogenesis, it occurred to them that continued BAT activation in people might lead to a reduction in white fat. For years, however, it was an accepted fact that adult humans did not have enough BAT to burn enough calories to make a difference. Then the uncoupling protein (UCP) was found. What makes the BAT cells different from all the other cells in the body is the presence of a small protein molecule that "uncouples" the train of biochemical events that normally turn calories into the kind of energy cells needed to carry out metabolic processes. As a result, the energy generated in BAT is simply wasted; it is radiated away from BAT into the blood and into neighboring tissues as heat. The discovery of the uncoupling protein unlocked the mysteries of thermogenesis. It was quickly discovered, for instance, that cold adaptation occurs because the cold generates an increase in the amount of uncoupling protein present in BAT. The more UCP the greater the capacity for thermogenesis.

Next it was found that the frequent activation of thermogenesis resulted in an increase in the amount of BAT in the body. More BAT, more UCP, more capacity for thermogenesis. Maybe adult humans DID have enough BAT to make a difference; or, if not, they could acquire it. M.J. Stock, of the University of London, wrote the following regarding this discovery:

"Due to the high thermogenic capacity, BAT, even in very small quantities, such as those found in an adult male, can significantly influence heat production. As little as 50g of BAT could make a contribution of 10-15% additional energy turnover in humans. This would be more than sufficient to cause large differences in fat deposition between individuals with active or inactive dietary induced thermogenesis." (Infusionstherapie 16(6), 282-4, 1989).

Meanwhile, scientists were postulating that some deficiency in the body's ability to burn calories in thermogenesis might have something to do with obesity. Genetic, environmental and dietary factors were investigated. It was determined that the body unable to burn calories as heat stores them in white fat. For example, Arene Astrup of the University of Copenhagen in Denmark, one of the pioneering researchers in thermogenesis, wrote:

"In a number of obesity syndromes in rodents, the sympathetic mediation (of thermogenesis) is defective, and this leads to extreme sensitivity to cold and to obesity... Likewise, the hypothesis has been advanced that a diminished thermogenesis in BAT may be the cause of some human obesity." (Acta Endocrinology, Suppl. 278, 1-32, 1986).

[/quote]

 

[Laura]

After severals hours later, it doesn't matter what I'm eating (I got pretty hungry in the evening and ate some green beans with butter and some salmon), the stomach pain comes back and is now combined with shoulder pain. Looks like I got a bug or something.

Gawan, I just thought I'd mention that the symptoms I experienced when I had gall stones, before I had my gall bladder removed, were similar to what you described. Sharp stomach pains that would most often start at night (it felt like a spear was being pushed through my torso) and subsided during the day. It was also more noticeable after a meal with fat. Shoulder pain is also a common symptom as well, though my pain was more in between my shoulder blades.

I'm definitely not saying that this is what you have, but if the symptoms continue or get worse, you may want to consider getting this checked out.


Edit: Fixed quote

True. You might want to back off on the fats for a bit and be sure to take your digestive enzymes. You can take some types of enzymes throughout the day, too.