"Life Without Bread"

[Gawan]

I posted a comment under yours, Psyche, on the guy's blog. Ya'll go ahead and go over and share your experiences.

Thanks for the reminder.


And fwiw, today on the paleo-summit is a show about "digestive issues", good timing imo so I could check it out if I could further improve things:

The Paleo Diet removes common gut-irritating foods like grains, dairy, and legumes from your plate. But what should you do if your digestive symptoms persist? Dr. Siebecker — an expert on IBS and Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth — shows you how to tweak your diet to suit your personal digestive needs.

http://youtu.be/Z_9Wt-6aUAY


And I visited today also the doctor and he meant that it is maybe some "acid-balancing or acid built up" that is going on and since the lunchtime I'm symptom free, finally.

 

[Sentenza]

I have a question.
I learned some time ago that I have a leaky gut. Since two months, I am on the paleodiet (which seems working very well for me). But I still ask myself a question. May I follow this diet without the risk of developing adverse reactions to certain meats (because the menu is not very varied)?
I heal my leaky gut recently taking probiotics, clay and glutamine.
However, should take a break with the paleodiet and only heal the gut?

 

[Oxajil]

And fwiw, today on the paleo-summit is a show about "digestive issues", good timing imo so I could check it out if I could further improve things:

The Paleo Diet removes common gut-irritating foods like grains, dairy, and legumes from your plate. But what should you do if your digestive symptoms persist? Dr. Siebecker — an expert on IBS and Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth — shows you how to tweak your diet to suit your personal digestive needs.

http://youtu.be/Z_9Wt-6aUAY

Thanks for sharing Gawan. Interesting that she would mention magnesium, since I've noticed that it has helped me with my digestive problems, though to a certain extent. Maybe additional magnesium might help you too Gawan (I take it on an empty stomach)?
Also interesting that coconut butter seems to contain a lot of fiber (not that I eat it). I was a bit surprised to hear she recommends honey and glucose as sweeteners over xylitol (which is difficult digestible, as she said)... Well, from what I've read I think that sugar, in any form, is just damaging to the body, so personally I would recommend xylitol or stevia, if tolerated. I myself don't use any sweeteners, because I tend to like the taste of sour over sweet.

 

[RedFox]

I have a question.
I learned some time ago that I have a leaky gut. Since two months, I am on the paleodiet (which seems working very well for me). But I still ask myself a question. May I follow this diet without the risk of developing adverse reactions to certain meats (because the menu is not very varied)?
I heal my leaky gut recently taking probiotics, clay and glutamine.
However, should take a break with the paleodiet and only heal the gut?

Well that's a good question....but the only answer I can come up with is - take a break from paleo diet too, what??? Everything outside the paleo diet seems to cause my digestion problems or harm.
So I think that even if there is a risk of leaky gut with paleo causing an immune responce, this will go away when your gut is healed (which seems to happen faster on the paleo diet). That's just my thoughts though.
Have you read Primal Body Primal Mind? It has a good chapter on digestion. I thought I was getting immune responces to things like pork when in fact it turned out I did not have enough stomach acid to properly digest the food (it was then fermenting and I was having an immune responce to that). So proper digestive support will help in the healing of the guts. You may want to research zinc too as lack of it can slow healing.

You may also want to leave the probiotics, as they are designed to digest carbs so are mostly useless on the paleo diet. They also tend to die off on the paleo diet so may cause some gut problems as they die. I found the best probiotic (only needed it once or twice) on the paleo diet, was a well aged (so that it picks up organisms that start to digest it) medium rare stake. fwiw

 

[gaman]

I'm trying to catch up on this thread and take some notes, but I'm only through page 30 so far. However, I jumped to the end her to ask some questions about supplements so that I can be doing things generally right while I'm catching up :)

So as I followed all the research here over the past 3 years or so on supplements, USD, etc. I started taking a large supplement regimen and I want to run it past y'all because I haven't really seen any supporting evidence so far in my catch-up that advocates leaving off most of the supplements. But I have seen plenty of people say you don't need supplements (or not many) on this diet and I do respect the people saying that but there is an evidence gap for me right now. Here is what I take so your feedback would be appreciated.

Context:
I'm very overweight again after a bad year of eating poorly (I weigh 320 lbs). My homeopath has me taking Seriphos, DSF, (glandular supplement multi-vitamin _http://www.totalsupplement.net/shop/index.php?shop=1&itemid=267098) and some other herbal suplement capsules because I apparently have serious adrenal problems. My physical and mental situation has been so in flux over the years that I have no real discernment ability as to what I can "tolerate" or not unless the effects are very pronounced and immediate. When I read a symptom questionnaire to find out if I have the given health condition (e.g. low adrenals, sluggish liver, low potassium, low magnesium, whatever) I almost invariably qualify for the condition, maybe because I have been in such poor state overall. For the past 3-4 weeks I have been working on the high fat, medium protein, low carb diet. No gluten, dairy, or veggies except for some onions. Everything organic. I eat lots of sea salt on just about every meal.

Here is the list of supplements I'm taking in addition to that mentioned above (I can remember all the doses but I can look them up if something stands out):
[list type=decimal]
[*]Magnesium Citrate
[*]Magnesium Glycinate
[*]Ascorbic Acid (4 g per day)
[*]Krill oil (twice the dose listed on the bottle)
[*]St. John's Wort
[*]Alpha lipoic acid
[*]NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine)
[*]Probiotics
[*]LVR (Pure encapsulations liver support - has milk thistle and other things)
[*]B Complex
[*]B12
[*]Plenty of liquid vitamin D3 (great source is bio-alternatives.net)
[*]Chlorella
[*]Niacin at lunch
[*]L-Glutamine
[*]Ox bile
[*]Acetyl L-Carnitine
[*]300 mg 5-HTTP at night
[*]6 mg melatonin at night
[/list]

Maybe this is overboard but everything seems to serve a purpose. Should I stop taking any of this?

As a side note, my wife noticed something interesting about me when I'm eating good (I did USD for a year before bombing last year) vs bad food. When I'm eating bad food, I eat LOTS of ice. I mean like 4 or 5 ice trays full per day with my water (I only drink water and some non-caffeine teas). After I'm eating better, I don't "eat" ice, and use only 3 small cubes in a large mug to slightly cool the water. I never noticed it.

Anyway, thanks for any feedback or pointers while I'm catching up.

 

[Psalehesost]

I think RedFox's post on smoking (and nicotine in general) and its connection with the paleo diet is worth mentioning in this thread. Given this info, perhaps some of those who have found smoking detrimental in the past (and consider themselves to be of the "non-smoking profile") might find it worthwhile to re-test it on the paleo diet?

(curious thought regarding Ark, by the way: I know he smokes nowadays, but found it detrimental to his mental focus in the past. could his change regarding this be an example of the diet in action?)

 

[Laura]

I have a question.
I learned some time ago that I have a leaky gut. Since two months, I am on the paleodiet (which seems working very well for me). But I still ask myself a question. May I follow this diet without the risk of developing adverse reactions to certain meats (because the menu is not very varied)?
I heal my leaky gut recently taking probiotics, clay and glutamine.
However, should take a break with the paleodiet and only heal the gut?

The paleo diet is probably the only thing that will allow the leaky gut to heal. It is generally things like candida (fed by carbs) and irritants to the gut like grains and indigestible fiber, that cause leaky gut.

 

[Laura]

Ditch the onions for the time being, Gaman. In your condition, you don't want anything that feeds candida, irritates the digestive tract, or could produce a sulfide reaction, and onions and garlic can do all three.

You may want to try an adrenal supplement or, depending on where you live, low dose hydrocortisone in the mornings to support the adrenals for a few weeks. One of the most important things to do to get the adrenals back on track, though, is getting proper sleep and eating a good meaty breakfast in the morning. After awhile, you will start waking up hungry in the morning and then you will know that the adrenals are starting to do their job. Getting good sleep means to sleep in a completely dark room, get to bed by ten or eleven, and stay in the complete darkness for at least 7 hours. There are a lot of activities that go on in your body in darkness and any light touching your skin anywhere will disrupt these vital functions.

You won't need probiotics if you have entirely eliminated fibrous veggies. You won't need the niacin or much in the way of extra B vitamins if you are eating plenty of meat. D3 you'll only need a few times a week. Unless there is some specific reason for the St. John's Wort, you can probably ditch that one, too. And, you may find your need for melatonin diminishing as you get your adrenals back online and work with the completely darkened room. I don't take any at all except on rare occasions because my body has kicked back in to making its own in the darkness.

A more reasonable list might look like this:

* Magnesium Citrate
* Magnesium Glycinate
* Ascorbic Acid (4 g per day)
* Krill oil (twice the dose listed on the bottle)
* Alpha lipoic acid
* NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine)
* LVR (Pure encapsulations liver support - has milk thistle and other things) What are the "other things"?
* B Complex
* Plenty of liquid vitamin D3 (occasional)
* Chlorella
* L-Glutamine (at breakfast, on an empty stomach, or when cravings appear)
* Ox bile (only with meals)
* Acetyl L-Carnitine
* 300 mg 5-HTTP at night (You may only need this for a short while)
* 6 mg melatonin at night (That's pretty high - see if you can gradually reduce it and ultimately eliminate it as your system comes back into balance)

 

[Nienna]

Gaman, you might also want to take a look at the posts Psyche made about sluggish liver and see if this may apply to you.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,17952.msg210919.html#msg210919

Read from there on what Psyche has found. I found that her sluggish liver remedy was very helpful for me.

fwiw

 

[gaman]

Thanks Laura and Nienna for the feedback.

Ditch the onions for the time being, Gaman. In your condition, you don't want anything that feeds candida, irritates the digestive tract, or could produce a sulfide reaction, and onions and garlic can do all three.

Okay, no onions or garlic. I especially had no clue about the garlic and we use a lot of that on a pork dish and a salmon dish.

You may want to try an adrenal supplement or, depending on where you live, low dose hydrocortisone in the mornings to support the adrenals for a few weeks.

The DSF is an adrenal supplement that the homeopath has put me on and it seems to help a little. Assuming the low dose hydrocortisone requires a prescription, that may take a while to find someone around here to prescribe it. My regular MD, although mildly progressive, isn't that open to things like adrenal fatigue etc. and refers people to QuackWatch! I'm still passively searching for a more open doctor. My homeopath is a chiropractor and can't prescribe stuff.

One of the most important things to do to get the adrenals back on track, though, is getting proper sleep and eating a good meaty breakfast in the morning.

Therein lies the rub. I still have a hard time going to sleep and wake up at 3 or 4 in the a.m. but if I stay up I am super tired again by 7am. I take the 5-http and melatonin just to try to sleep.

Unless there is some specific reason for the St. John's Wort, you can probably ditch that one, too.

I take it to try to combat the very severe depression that I had all throughout last year (I had essentially given up, gone back to bad diet, etc.) but I'm not feeling so bad on this diet. It was touch and go for a little while.

* LVR (Pure encapsulations liver support - has milk thistle and other things) What are the "other things"?

This LVR was something I started taking for liver support and was recommended in the USD/Hyman book. From http://www.pureencapsulations.com/itemdy00.asp?t1=lv1 :

LVR Formula is a broad-spectrum, synergistic combination of concentrated herbal extracts that nutritionally supports liver function. The ingredients in this formula rejuvenate hepatic cells and promote the flow of bile. They also combine to support glutathione production, antioxidant protection, and protein synthesis in hepatocytes, promoting liver health.

The ingredients are:

Silybum marianum	150 mg.	(milk thistle) extract (standardized to contain 80% silymarin)
Cynara scolymus	100 mg.	(artichoke) extract (standardized to contain 5% cynarins)
alpha lipoic acid	100 mg.
turmeric	150 mg.	(Curcuma longa) extract (standardized to contain 95% curcuminoids)
n-acetyl-l-cysteine	100 mg.
luteolin	5mg.
ascorbyl palmitate	12 mg.	(fat-soluble vitamin C)

Recommended Dosage: 2–3 capsules per day, in divided doses, between meals.

I take 2 first thing in the morning when I get up. I can't remember to take other doses between meals so that is all I take.

Gaman, you might also want to take a look at the posts Psyche made about sluggish liver and see if this may apply to you.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,17952.msg210919.html#msg210919

Read from there on what Psyche has found. I found that her sluggish liver remedy was very helpful for me.

Thanks, Nienna. I do have some of the symptoms. It looks like I'll need to find ways to remember to take the LVR in between meals (I'm always so busy at work I forget) or find some milk thistle that I can take with meals. I don't have a problem taking things with meals because I have supplements grouped together for each meal and that is easy to remember.

 

[gaman]

You may want to try an adrenal supplement or, depending on where you live, low dose hydrocortisone in the mornings to support the adrenals for a few weeks.

The DSF is an adrenal supplement that the homeopath has put me on and it seems to help a little. Assuming the low dose hydrocortisone requires a prescription, that may take a while to find someone around here to prescribe it. My regular MD, although mildly progressive, isn't that open to things like adrenal fatigue etc. and refers people to QuackWatch! I'm still passively searching for a more open doctor. My homeopath is a chiropractor and can't prescribe stuff.

Regarding low dose hydrocortisone, I was wondering if I could get that through an over the counter cream and did a little searching. I found this page (_http://livingnetwork.co.za/lifestylefunctional-medicine/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/) talking about something called "isocort" which is a standardized adrenal extract that also has 2.5 mg of cortisol. And they mention an option called whole licorice extract. I'll do some searching in the forums here because I know I've read some thread that has info about low dose hydrocortisone and see if the referenced page's options fit in line with what the group thinks of that therapy.

 

[Laura]

Check out fludan.com

 

[Sentenza]

Well that's a good question....but the only answer I can come up with is - take a break from paleo diet too, what??? Everything outside the paleo diet seems to cause my digestion problems or harm.
So I think that even if there is a risk of leaky gut with paleo causing an immune responce, this will go away when your gut is healed (which seems to happen faster on the paleo diet). That's just my thoughts though.

Yes, it is also the conclusion I came by trying to reason with myself.
Thank you for the feedback.

You may also want to leave the probiotics, as they are designed to digest carbs so are mostly useless on the paleo diet. They also tend to die off on the paleo diet so may cause some gut problems as they die. I found the best probiotic (only needed it once or twice) on the paleo diet, was a well aged (so that it picks up organisms that start to digest it) medium rare stake. fwiw

I confess that about probiotics, I do not know what to think. I read "Primal Body, Primal Mind", and the author recommends to take probiotics for the welfare of the intestine.
On the other hand, what you say about them giving also to think ... Currently, I take apple vinegar which is apparently a good source of probiotics. But some say, when someone is contaminated by mercury (I have not yet done detoxification), probiotics convert mercury into methylmercury, rather dangerous ... So I do not know ...

The paleo diet is probably the only thing that will allow the leaky gut to heal. It is generally things like candida (fed by carbs) and irritants to the gut like grains and indigestible fiber, that cause leaky gut.

OK. Thank you for this information. No reason to interrupt the paleodiet, so (phew!)

 

[beetlemaniac]

A question about cholesterol tests. Is it better to do the test on a fast (before breakfast) or after having a meal? I understand that dietary cholesterol has little effect on LDL levels so maybe the fasting before blood sampling is really not necessary.

As I mentioned on a swamp thread, my dad is worried about my high cholesterol, and I am going to take another test next week to see what I get. Here's the results of my first test:

Total: 15.9 mmol/L - 286.2 mg/dL
LDL: 13.1 - 235.8 mg/dL
HDL: 2.31 - 41.58 mg/dL
Trig: 1.12 - 20.16 mg/dL

The Total and LDL is pretty high... it seems the doctor was frantically trying to locate me because he's never seen levels this high.

 

[Gaby]

A question about cholesterol tests. Is it better to do the test on a fast (before breakfast) or after having a meal? I understand that dietary cholesterol has little effect on LDL levels so maybe the fasting before blood sampling is really not necessary.

If you are having a total lipid profile, you need to fast at least 12 hours before you do this kind of analysis, specially if you are measuring LDL. Next time you have your levels checked, don't eat anything for the previous 12 hours.

As I mentioned on a swamp thread, my dad is worried about my high cholesterol, and I am going to take another test next week to see what I get. Here's the results of my first test:

Total: 15.9 mmol/L - 286.2 mg/dL
LDL: 13.1 - 235.8 mg/dL
HDL: 2.31 - 41.58 mg/dL
Trig: 1.12 - 20.16 mg/dL

The Total and LDL is pretty high... it seems the doctor was frantically trying to locate me because he's never seen levels this high.

Have you read the posts about cholesterol levels on sott and here? This is a good synthesis:

https://www.sott.net/articles/show/223978-The-most-important-thing-you-probably-don-t-know-about-cholesterol

If the next test (done while fasting) is similar to the one above, it will be best to find out what your LDL is made of. The article above says where can you get those specific tests. The tests are for measuring LDL particle number or apoprotein B with methods such as lipoprotein analysis.