"Life Without Bread"

[Ollie]

... It has been getting warmer in London with the Spring but I have been sleeping with the same amount of layers I did throughout the Winter, so my body got too hot which, once again, caused nausea.

Prior to the diet I had never before experienced this, which is what has made me establish the connection. However, I can't really be sure whether they are indeed related, so I'm very curious to know whether anyone else has been experiencing anything similar.

I've moved completely to a much lower level of duvet covering, as I was sweating up - but no nausea associated with it. In previous years I would have had the full winter and summer covers on through the year, and extra sleep clothing in the winter - this year, just summer clothing through.

What has caused feelings of nausea is if I go over the recommended protein/carb level for my body weight - I had an experience of this yesterday - I had promised myself a treat (Paleo compliant), and as soon as I ate it I felt completely full and had feelings of nausea for the rest of the evening. I've experienced this before if I go over the recommended allowance. This is probably due to contraction of my stomach in line with what I normally eat.

 

[Psalehesost]

Prior to the diet I had never before experienced this, which is what has made me establish the connection. However, I can't really be sure whether they are indeed related, so I'm very curious to know whether anyone else has been experiencing anything similar.

One question I would have, when do you normally eat supper and at which time do you go to bed? Cause my experience with nausea is, that food/(especially) buttered tea can take up to 6 hrs until it is digested and caused me at times nausea in the middle of the night.

Don't know if this can be useful, but once since increasing meal sizes (and particularly protein) recently (in accord with Kruse's reccomendations) I got very nauseous some hours later - though this was during the day. And realized it may be connected to not doing something I otherwise do as of late.

I don't have any HCl supplement at present, but just after finishing a meal, I dilute a bit of 24% acetic acid solution in water and chug it down (followed immediately by some plain water), which seems to help. Doing this, there was still initial stomach upset after increasing meal sizes, but digestion worked and the stomach settled after a little while - and now there's no upset. Without some additional acid, things feel easier on the stomach at first, but it seems digestion doesn't work as well.

I think if it takes six hours to digest a meat and fat meal, some additional acid might be needed. And apart from HCl, acetic acid also seems to work to ease the digestive burden.

 

[Oxajil]

Hi Gertrudes,

That's interesting. Since you could have some problems with blood circulation (which could be one of the reasons why you are/were not so cold-resistant) and perhaps due to the positive dietary changes, your body is slowly trying to reorganize and heal to get the blood circulation going. Your body becoming sensitive to heat from the environment, which wasn't the case prior to the diet, could be a sign of this healing process. Maybe before, the body used much of your own energy to keep you warm, maybe now that energy is not needed anymore, because it is better able to absorb heat from the environment. Maybe you just don't need those extra sheets or the extra clothing anymore? Does that make any sense?

Since cooling your body off helped you get rid of the nauseousness, I'd say what will help you prevent this again, is to just wear less clothes and only pull a very thin sheet, or none at all, over you. Also, try to drink enough water with some salt throughout the day (just a reminder!)

Just my thoughts on this, I could be totally wrong 'course!

 

[Gawan]

I did dig a little bit deeper in the Vitamin K2 and butter oil issue. At the beginning I thought that butter oil, is something like ghee and Weston A. Price writes the following:

The program that I have found most efficient has been one which includes the use of small quantities of very high vitamin butter mixed in equal parts with a very high vitamin cod liver oil. A simple method of preparing the butter is by melting it and allowing it to cool for twenty-four hours at a temperature of about 70° F., then centrifugalizing it which provides an oil that remains liquid at room temperature. When this butter oil is mixed in equal parts with a very high-vitamin cod liver oil, it produces a product that is more efficient than either alone. It should be used within a couple of weeks of the time it is mixed. It is desirable that this material be made available in various parts of the country. Even the high-vitamin butter produced on the early summer growth of grass put in storage and used during the winter will go far toward solving our great national problem of shortage of fat-soluble vitamins. The quantity of the mixture of butter oil and cod liver oil required is quite small, half a teaspoonful three times a day with meals is sufficient to control wide-spread tooth decay when used with a diet that is low in sugar and starches and high in foods providing the minerals, particularly phosphorus. A teaspoonful a day divided between two or three meals is usually adequate to prevent dental caries and maintain a high immunity; it will also maintain freedom from colds and a high level of health in general. This reinforcement of the fat-soluble vitamins to a menu that is low in starches and sugars, together with the use of bread and cereal grains freshly ground to retain the full content of the embryo or germ, and with milk for growing children and for many adults, and the liberal use of sea foods and organs of animals, produced the result described.

_http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html

And in the comments of the blog Psyche provided the author stated the following about ghee:

There’s no more K2 in ghee than butter. Butter oil in not the same, not even close. It’s but a tiny faction. This was discussed at length in my last post on K2 and the calcium paradox.

_http://freetheanimal.com/2012/01/vitamin-k2-menatetrenone-weston-a-price-activator-xor-whateverits-amazing.html

But this post is about vitamin K2 (menaquinone), and to emphasize: no, you cannot get this but by eating animals and their parts. What's more, evolution dealt us an awful blow: inasmuch as hunting and gathering was far more arduous than snagging a ribeye at the local grass fed (clap clap) merchant, you're still SOL. See, actual hunting for food over the millions of years before Whole Foods, had an evolutionary effect. People ate the whole thing. And guess where the most nutrient dense parts are: organs, marrow, brain.

_http://freetheanimal.com/2011/11/unifying-nutrition-osteoporosis-and-atherosclerosis-may-be-linked-vitamin-k2.html

Sounds like a "super food," don't it? ...Only it doesn't grow on some obscure tree in the rain forrest unavailable to the vast majority of people who evolved over the last 4 million years. Nope. It has been available to everyone throughout our evolution. But you have to eat animals, and you have to eat the "nasty bits" to really cash in. Don't want to? Fine, supplement.

As for the MK-4 and MK-7 issue:

As to reference 12, Dr. Stephan Guyenet blogged about that way back here, about three years ago. And I will respectfully dispute the idea that the MK-4 was not likely therapeutic. And for a simple reason: that's the subform you get from animal products. The MK-7 subform comes from bacterial fermentation in things like high quality cheeses and natto. Those were not available generally to evolutionary man. On the other hand, the MK-7 form has been shown beneficial, as I totally rant about in this post from early 2009. I think you try to get both; but if I had to choose, it would be the animal form, made by ruhminats for benefit of those who consume them.

I don't think it is known for sure whether the '7' subform would be inferior to '4', but from a Paleo perspective, we know that our ancestors likely consumed quite a bit of the '4' as it's found in organ meats, marrow, fish eggs, etc., and probably none of the '7', so I'd definitely go with the '4'.

IMO it would a good experiment to go for the fermented cod liver oil or K2 (Menatetrenone) and to see what is happening.

For the German folks, the green pasture fermented cod liver oil is available here:
_http://www.ergomaxshop.de/neue_produkte/Erg-24--green-pasture-lebertran-kapseln.html

 

[Gertrudes]

Thank you for the responses everyone.

One question I would have, when do you normally eat supper and at which time do you go to bed? Cause my experience with nausea is, that food/(especially) buttered tea can take up to 6 hrs until it is digested and caused me at times nausea in the middle of the night.

I usually have it a couple of hours before bed. I know that whilst before I could eat just before going to bed and have no problems, now it takes me much longer to digest so I do have to be more careful. In any case, I find it peculiar how the heat is affecting me in a way it didn't before, even if before I would go to bed on a relatively full stomach.

What has caused feelings of nausea is if I go over the recommended protein/carb level for my body weight

Yes, I also experience nausea if I go beyond my level of tolerance, but that, in my case, happens mainly with fat.

Don't know if this can be useful, but once since increasing meal sizes (and particularly protein) recently (in accord with Kruse's reccomendations) I got very nauseous some hours later - though this was during the day. And realized it may be connected to not doing something I otherwise do as of late.

It took me a couple of months of experimenting with meal sizes until achieving a good balance, and I think that I am there now. I can't have big portions because they will bloat me up, make me nauseous and tired. In fact, I don't even need them. My breakfast can hold me for up to 13 hours without snacking, and still feeling energetic! For me this is nothing short of remarkable as I used to get very irritable, jittery and anxious.

Which reminds me, I know that you have mentioned at another thread how you have been experimenting with bigger meals and higher levels of protein Psalehesost. I'm still reading on this whole meal size, fat and protein ratio issue and am far from having reached any meaningful conclusions, but I would be a bit more careful with increased protein intake though. I think that Nora Gedgaudas also had a very good case as to why we shouldn't exceed our 0.8 to 1.2g of protein per kg of body weight, as it will start creating internal havoc. The chapter of PBPM where this is explained has been posted earlier on this thread, just in case you wish to read it.

This is the only thing that I find so far to be a little bit off in Dr. Kruses' studies. And I'm not just comparing it with Gedgauda's work but with my own experience. When I was having big meals with lots of protein I simply didn't feel good. My energy was often low, I felt sluggish and foggy after meals, and was always bloated. Of course, this could be a manifestation of an underlying digestive problem, and that is still a possibility.
Nevertheless, I would still take Gedgauda's advice into consideration.

That's interesting. Since you could have some problems with blood circulation (which could be one of the reasons why you are/were not so cold-resistant) and perhaps due to the positive dietary changes, your body is slowly trying to reorganize and heal to get the blood circulation going. Your body becoming sensitive to heat from the environment, which wasn't the case prior to the diet, could be a sign of this healing process. Maybe before, the body used much of your own energy to keep you warm, maybe now that energy is not needed anymore, because it is better able to absorb heat from the environment. Maybe you just don't need those extra sheets or the extra clothing anymore? Does that make any sense?

Yes, it could be that my body is processing temperature differently. I haven't noticed any decreased sensitivity to cold this year though, just an intolerance to high heat.
And I'm sleeping with less clothes now :)

 

[SeekinTruth]

Gertrudes, since you're eating only a couple of hours before bed, it might help to eat things that are a little easier to digest for dinner, such as minced meat. Just a thought. Also, was it you who had problems with digestive enzymes / Betaine HCl / ox bile, etc.?
If not, these will also probably help you digest in general and have less problems at night/during sleep. FWIW.

 

[Gertrudes]

Gertrudes, since you're eating only a couple of hours before bed, it might help to eat things that are a little easier to digest for dinner, such as minced meat. Just a thought. Also, was it you who had problems with digestive enzymes / Betaine HCl / ox bile, etc.?
If not, these will also probably help you digest in general and have less problems at night/during sleep. FWIW.

Thanks SeekinTruth, I haven't been having problems with going to bed though, only when going to bed if there is a source of heat. And that can happen when going to bed, when at work, any occasion really, as long as there is a source of heat.

As far as I'm aware, I haven't had any problems with enzymes either, and I sometimes take them. This hasn't, as far as I noticed, made a difference in the way heat affects me.
On a positive note, I have been noticing that I don't need digestive enzymes as much as I did. I am digesting fat better, and even organ meat that was causing problems is now being easily digested without any aids.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Ok, thanks for the clarification, Gertrudes. And good to hear your digestion is better. So it seems you just have to avoid high heat situations. As opposed to the past where you sought out heat sources, now you just do the opposite I guess and see how it goes.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

This is the only thing that I find so far to be a little bit off in Dr. Kruses' studies. And I'm not just comparing it with Gedgauda's work but with my own experience. When I was having big meals with lots of protein I simply didn't feel good. My energy was often low, I felt sluggish and foggy after meals, and was always bloated. Of course, this could be a manifestation of an underlying digestive problem, and that is still a possibility.
Nevertheless, I would still take Gedgauda's advice into consideration.

That's exactly how I feel eating meat and fat, so I am focusing on the digestion problem first, enzymes and HCL don't seem to make any difference at all. I also get hot during the night, but not nauseous. I notice it more when I do eat meat for dinner, it's like my body is working overtime trying to digest it, and I feel like crap the next day.

 

[Laura]

That's exactly how I feel eating meat and fat, so I am focusing on the digestion problem first, enzymes and HCL don't seem to make any difference at all. I also get hot during the night, but not nauseous. I notice it more when I do eat meat for dinner, it's like my body is working overtime trying to digest it, and I feel like crap the next day.

You might want to eat your main meal, so to say, in the morning which is what we do. Evenings are much lighter. You know the old "eat like a king in the morning, like a prince at noon and like a pauper at dinner." Dinner could be just a lettuce salad with bacon bits on it and home-made mayonnaise, my favorite!

 

[hesperides]

I want to describe the heat I´m also experiencing, although within another context, as I´m 56. What puzzles me is last year my menstrual period started decreasing and eventually stopped last summer. Thereafter I spent one month experiencing heat/cold body temperature, which are "normal" menopause symptoms, and had no more side effects thereafter. But on September I started the low carb diet after near 2 years following the Ultra Mind Solution and LWB food & supplements protocols and related threads, and I got the menstrual period again last December and since February this heat/cold side effect returned, this time much stronger, which badly impacts my heart and body strength, until temperature stabilizes again. I´m taking black cohosh -from Eclectic Institute, 4 caps/day- but don´t see any difference until now, although I´ll go on with it as they say it can take months until some relief shows up.

Another thing I notice, is this debilitating heat is´seemingly affecting or related to the fat amount that was comfortable for me to eat. Since a month, I´m not craving fat anymore as I did for 5 months, and also feel the need for some more vegetables and salad to ease or avoid fat nausea and also because I love it now a lot. Another explanation could be the seasonal influence discussed above coinciding with menopause; hard to find out which of both is at the root of the issue in this moment.

Another underlying possibility could be I´m smoking maybe too much -because of insulin hormone release due to additives-, about 20-27 cigarrettes per day, and I´ve ordered organic tobacco to replace the semi-organic one I´m smoking since 2 years (American Spirit) and will see if there´s any improvement. I tried to cut down cigarettes consumption, but got really nervous at a given point, being a smoker of current brands for 30 years amouting one pack per day. I too have increased my smoking since I´m on the low carb diet because I really enjoy it, like others have reported as well, but this causes my already sore throat to become more susceptible, specially as I wake up. I´ve upped NAC intake and will test if it makes the job or will start seriously considering cutting my cig. consumption.

What I´m also trying to find out is what caused the worsening of the arthrose I was diagnosed at 20, although I´ve been able to spend an almost normal life until now. Coinciding again with February and the resurgence of the heat/cold effects, I find myself in pain with my shoulders, back and behind the knees, even after applying DMSO. I´ll see now if applying it 3 times a day and taking MSM again will help. Taping doesn´t work for me.

I´m very reluctant thinking about going to the doctor because of bad and rather implausible past experiences with meds of the Spanish Social Security, and can´t afford a private doctor.

I nonetheless believe stress is the big responsable of my health state, which arose in 2003 as I suddenly lost all physical strength at 45ºC and slowly fall on the floor, finding myself alone at home. I couldn´t help but feeling upmost scared because of a high tension between my head and heart that wouldn´t go away for years. Since I didn´t want to depend on any antidepressant stuff, I never go to see any doctor. Living constantly on the flght or flee system soon caused deterioration to my physic and psychological health, and all the years I spent assisting at a gnostic teaching wouldn´t bring any release either. Thanks to EE and some recommended books here, I´m recovering slowly my balance again and sometimes shake my head seeing how many years I needed to start figuring out where and who was the ennemy.

I´ll report further any new change I notice.

 

[Laura]

I was thinking about this last night and trying to imagine myself in the ancestral past when Spring is gersprungin'... what would I be eating? What would all our ancestors be eating in the Spring?

Obviously not meats with a lot of fat on them because all the critters had used up their fat over the winter. In fact, our ancestors would probably be respecting the Spring cycle of birth and only selectively eating leaner meats and fish and possibly some green things like tender shoots of certain plants or roots?

So maybe we evolved to eat that way when the light begins to lengthen?

I don't know exactly what we have available to us today that would fill that purpose, (except for seafood) but maybe veal is one item?

 

[Gawan]

I was thinking about this last night and trying to imagine myself in the ancestral past when Spring is gersprungin'... what would I be eating? What would all our ancestors be eating in the Spring?

Obviously not meats with a lot of fat on them because all the critters had used up their fat over the winter. In fact, our ancestors would probably be respecting the Spring cycle of birth and only selectively eating leaner meats and fish and possibly some green things like tender shoots of certain plants or roots?

So maybe we evolved to eat that way when the light begins to lengthen?

It looks like it, since two days I cannot stand anymore fatty meat and too much butter, my body refuses it and most often pork belly is left on the plate and leaner meat, beans and eggs are more suitable.

I don't know exactly what we have available to us today that would fill that purpose, (except for seafood) but maybe veal is one item?

As you wrote it should be at least lean meat imo and green things are also coming to my mind. But one question could also be, what was available at the time of the year (some thousand years back)?

 

[Laura]

As you wrote it should be at least lean meat imo and green things are also coming to my mind. But one question could also be, what was available at the time of the year (some thousand years back)?

Eggs? Lots of eggs in the Spring. Plus, we have a remembrance of that in the association of eggs with Easter. I would think stews made with lean meats, bone broth, and bits of various plant foods added. Salad type things made up of an assortment of green shoots. More salads as things begin to grow and ripen.

The problem is, most plant foods we consider edible in our modern day are NOT what our evolutionary forebears were accustomed to eating, most particularly fruits. So maybe some research is in order?

 

[Ollie]

I was thinking about this last night and trying to imagine myself in the ancestral past when Spring is gersprungin'... what would I be eating? What would all our ancestors be eating in the Spring?

Obviously not meats with a lot of fat on them because all the critters had used up their fat over the winter. In fact, our ancestors would probably be respecting the Spring cycle of birth and only selectively eating leaner meats and fish and possibly some green things like tender shoots of certain plants or roots?

So maybe we evolved to eat that way when the light begins to lengthen?

I don't know exactly what we have available to us today that would fill that purpose, (except for seafood) but maybe veal is one item?

From a recent reading of some of Kruse's work, he seems to be an advocate of seafood - from our ancestral background (aquatic ape?).


Edit: spelling Kruge's to Kruse's