"Life Without Bread"

Yes, according to Dr. Kruse, the mTOR pathway works differently in warm adapted people than in cold adapted (it works in the opposite way). He says that it actually leads to greater health and longevity in those who are cold adapted. So it MAY become moot to control protein with this new information (if you're going to become cold adapted). Granted, fat intake will still be a much greater percentage of calories than protein.

About the magnesium issue, I kept taking magnesium citrate (450 - 900 mg per day). I also still occasionally do transdermal magnesium chloride. I tried keeping oral intake away from meals, but I don't see any difference in terms of interfering with digestion/neutralizing stomach acid. So I take it after breakfast and dinner and sometimes at night a little before bed. Isn't magnesium supposed to be one of the minerals, like calcium, that is only absorbed in the presence of fat? Otherwise, it's supposed to basically stay mostly in the intestines causing more water to be retained in the colon and pass out with bowel movements. If this is the case it would be useful to take some dosage away from meals for cases of constipation, but not much of that will be absorbed and utilized in the body. FWIW.
 
SeekinTruth said:
Just a reminder (to Psalehesost, 3D Student, and Megan, as well as others) that gut healing is key and will take a different amount of time for different people and how much damage was done eating the wrong foods. There's also more information on Dr. Kruse's site about leaky gut and how to heal it. Just a tip: when reading Kruse's blog posts, read the comments. There's often as much important info and links in the comments as in the body of the post.

Yes, I am painfully aware of that. The problem has been that I don't quite prepare my own food 100% of the time, although I can do it "almost" 100%. Unfortunately that last little bit can be extremely risky. I didn't know how risky it was until the end of December, when I discovered that I had developed an acute wheat/gluten allergy, and then I triggered it again in mid-January doing food testing at home (and I am not even certain what the trigger was -- I was testing almonds and this wasn't a characteristic almond reaction). Prior to that, the effects of exposure were relatively mild.

My eczema usually clears up completely during the winter months but it was worse this year, apparently due to the low-carb diet, and it has been warm and dry throughout the winter (70 F at times in January/February). It is showing some signs of going down now.

You are looking at the earlier article, not the 1975 one.

I searched for and located the article directly myself, but I ended up at the same link as the supplied one. The PDF at the link does not directly identify the issue of the magazine. The book reference, however, contains the title, month/year of the issue (January, 1975), and the page numbers. The PDF contains a 1974 copyright date, which is consistent with publication at the beginning of 1975, and the titles and page numbers match exactly between the PDF and the book's reference. It appears highly likely that the PDF represents the article referenced, although it is possible that Gedgaudas published the wrong reference in the book.
 
Just wanted to add I'm attempting the leptin protocol (bigger breakfast, less snacking etc) as I'm pretty sure this is what is behind my fluctuating weight (it recently dropped quite a bit) - I noticed some time ago that sleeping in late would cause me to loose weight.
Exercise would also cause fatigue and weight loss (despite hydrating).

Why should I avoid aerobic exercise during the reset? This will require some explanation. If you’re LR ,you are a sugar burner, not a fat burner. That means you can not do glycolytic exercise until your muscles and lever become completely LS as well. Your brain being LS is not enough. If your muscles are still LR, they can’t properly use the glucose or the fat delivered to them. This is detailed in the “Why is Oprah still Fat” post.

Another to avoid aerobic exercise at this stage is because the AMPk pathways are not working well yet. (This will be the focus of an upcoming blog post.) AMPk is stimulated by re-teaching your muscles and liver how to deplete glycogen and metabolically respond to hypoxia and cellular stressors. Any time metabolism is stressed, AMPk should respond in kind with big results. In LR, it does not work well at all. This is why body composition is trashed in LR states.

Presumably the large breakfast will teach the liver/muscles that this is when to stock up on glycogen? Something crossed my mind when reading this reply in Dr Kruses thread..

Odyssey said:
Dr. Kruse wrote in one of his blogs that smokers cold adapt slower. I haven't found anything scientific to support this claim. I briefly thought about quitting but quickly nixed that idea. :cool2: I've smoked while in the tub, of course. I did read that smoking blocks NPY in the hypothalamus in mice: http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/content/173/11/1248.full

RedFox said:
[..]
_http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/301/3/930.full.pdf
Nicotine Increases Hepatic Oxygen Uptake in the Isolated Perfused Rat Liver by Inhibiting Glycolysis
[..]

_http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0024320576902708
Nicotinic acid reverses fasting ketosis by lowering the level of cyclic AMP

Abstract

When nicotinic acid was administered intraperitoneally to fasted rats, it reversed ketosis, decreased concentrations of cyclic AMP in adipose tissue and liver, and partially suppressed lipolysis. Administration of dibutyryl cyclic AMP reinduced ketosis in fasted rats previously treated with nicotinic acid. The results that nicotinic acid reverses ketosis by lowering tissue levels of cyclic AMP with a consequent suppression of lipolysis and ketogenesis.

If so, then smokers may need to adjust there smoking pattern. That is not smoke until breakfast has been digested about an hour and half later to allow for repletion of glycogen stores (smoking signals glycogen to be depleted)?

Also
What exercise can I do during the LR Protocol? My personal advice it to do none. If you must, swim, walk, or have a lot of sex right before bed. Yes, timing of sex is important, too, in the reset. Oxytocin is released at climax and it is the best chemical a brain can have prior to sleep. It jump-starts the conversion of serotonin to melatonin without the four hours of complete darkness it usually takes. This is why orgasm can make you sleepy, and why moms and babies fall asleep in a rocking chair after breastfeeding.

RedFox said:
_http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/53/2/323
THE REPLETION OF OXYTOCIN IN THE PITUITARY OF RATS AFTER ADMINISTRATION OF NICOTINE
Excerpt

Although the release of oxytocin from the neurohypophysis has been demonstrated both after physiological stimuli such as suckling (Fitzpatrick, 1961) and after administration of pharmacological agents such as nicotine (Bisset & Walker, 1953), very little work appears to have been carried out to investigate how quickly oxytocin is repleted at the posterior pituitary gland after release. In the present investigation the oxytocin content of the pituitary gland was determined at 2, 10, 30 and 120 min after intravenous administration of nicotine to rats. The effect of previous administration of pheniramine, an antihistamine, on the oxytocin-releasing action of nicotine was studied in a further series of experiments.

So smoking before bed may be of help from the point of view of oxytocin production, and signalling your body to stop glycogen storage/switch to fat burning for the night.

Its possible then that the timing of smoking (wonder what that says about our evolution?) could be important to helping become leptin sensitive again (don't smoke around breakfast, smoke more later in the day), but may slow the process by sending conflicting signals if smoking at the wrong time. osit
 
Megan, I'm wondering if you could be getting a reaction from gluten contamination in the case of the almonds. Nuts can be problematic in and of themselves, but can also have gluten contamination/coating, same as many spices, because they may be processed in facilities that process gluten containing products. Just a thought.

I also wonder if it's possible that just as your gut is healing, whenever you consume something harmful now, your body is giving stronger reactions -- both having become more sensitive and as a strong message that it does NOT want to be exposed to these substances. Many of us saw how sensitive we are to many different foods that we'd consumed lots of over many years. After elimination and reintroduction, the sensitivity to them returns and you can't mistake the reactions and symptoms. It's tedious to track down every single food sensitivity, but when we're not feeling optimal and thriving, it usually proves that something we're eating should be eliminated at least for a while. Just sayin'.


Interesting questions you've raised, RedFox. One thing that I have some suspicions about are the methods of administering nicotine (besides different species' reactions). I think there's a big difference between smoking tobacco and any other way of infusing nicotine. You probably know that already. I just wanted to remind of the different physiological effects and you can't always compare the results from the different methods. But these questions are very interesting non-the-less. As always, some experimentation and sharing results may, at least partly, get us some answers.

I've been eating the big breakfast ever since I got on this diet. But I'm going to try to eat sooner after waking up. And I do smoke first thing in the morning with hot cocoa before breakfast. If you experiment, let us know what you come up with in terms of smoking at different times.
 
SeekinTruth said:
Megan, I'm wondering if you could be getting a reaction from gluten contamination in the case of the almonds. Nuts can be problematic in and of themselves, but can also have gluten contamination/coating, same as many spices, because they may be processed in facilities that process gluten containing products. Just a thought.

I suspect that either there was an unlisted ingredient (these particular almonds were packaged and seasoned) or that it was some kind of cross-reaction that produced a gluten-type reaction. I researched tree nut cross reactions, though, and didn't come across anything that matched well. I would have expected a respiratory reaction from almonds, but this was a severe "gut reaction," very similar to the incident two weeks earlier.

I also wonder if it's possible that just as your gut is healing, whenever you consume something harmful now, your body is giving stronger reactions -- both having become more sensitive and as a strong message that it does NOT want to be exposed to these substances. Many of us saw how sensitive we are to many different foods that we'd consumed lots of over many years. After elimination and reintroduction, the sensitivity to them returns and you can't mistake the reactions and symptoms. It's tedious to track down every single food sensitivity, but when we're not feeling optimal and thriving, it usually proves that something we're eating should be eliminated at least for a while. Just sayin'.

This is consistent with my reading, and it is the best explanation I have, currently.

The good news is that I no longer have any reluctance to declare that I have a wheat/gluten allergy and must avoid even traces of the stuff. The bad news is that even presented with that, cooks can be clueless. I talked with the cook when I arrived at the retreat that I attended at the beginning of this month, and he appeared to understand the problem only after I explained it in detail. One morning, though, there were "egg puffs" for breakfast which to my now-trained eye looked extremely suspicious. Sure enough, they contained wheat, though they had forgotten to mention that. But then I was in a mode where I would go hungry rather than even taste something suspicious, and I made it through the weekend just fine.
 
That's the way to be, Megan. We have to be really careful with everything, especially when traveling/eating out. Heck, even at home there could be a slip that has to be tracked down to find out what it was/what triggered it. Zim posted recently that the bacon she's been buying and eating for a while all of the sudden had wheat added to it. I never take a risk if I'm suspicious about anything; it's better to just skip it. As well, the good news includes that we now know immediately when we eat something bad for us. :)
 
RedFox said:
_http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0024320576902708
Nicotinic acid reverses fasting ketosis by lowering the level of cyclic AMP

Abstract

When nicotinic acid was administered intraperitoneally to fasted rats, it reversed ketosis, decreased concentrations of cyclic AMP in adipose tissue and liver, and partially suppressed lipolysis. Administration of dibutyryl cyclic AMP reinduced ketosis in fasted rats previously treated with nicotinic acid. The results that nicotinic acid reverses ketosis by lowering tissue levels of cyclic AMP with a consequent suppression of lipolysis and ketogenesis.

If so, then smokers may need to adjust there smoking pattern. That is not smoke until breakfast has been digested about an hour and half later to allow for repletion of glycogen stores (smoking signals glycogen to be depleted)?

Personally I like to smoke before and after eating, because it helps me with digestion. Plus, as I understand it, nicotinic acid is not nicotine. Nicotinic acid is one of the vitamin B's, AKA: vitamin B3, niacin, niacinamide, vitamin PP.
 
Yeah, nicotinic acid is B3/niacin/niacinamide/Vit PP. But they do have similar effects as nicotine proper in certain situations being derivatives of each other, so to speak. For instance, niacin and niacinamide have some similar physiological effects and some different also. Niacin seems to have more an effect in increasing circulation than niacinamide -- and niacinamide doesn't give the "niacin flush." I'm not sure how much of a detoxing effect niacinamide has, if any, compared to niacin, either.

Anyway, I think the way nicotine is ingested is a biggy too.
 
Gimpy said:
Laura said:
Well, it's just that I don't WANT as much fat right now. I'll play around with it, add some digestive stuff, and see if it is some lack of digestive juices issue.

I've also noticed this...usually I drink the bacon fat left over after making bacon for breakfast, and lately I just don't seem to want it. Later in the afternoon I do drink butter tea made with part ghee part coconut oil/milk, and that satisfies me enough dinner is small.

Our weather went from being a brisk 35 to the mid 70's to low 80's today. My daffodils are popping all over the yard, and the birds are all going berserk. :shock: [..]

Ditto here with not wanting as much fat as in winter. Maybe spring is coming we will need more meat plus complex-carbs. Speaking of bloating and gas i was surprised that despite i began hoarding carrots and a lot of sugar-beet in March there is no bloating. Pressure cooking them for 6-10 minutes, then brown them in pig fat. They look and taste fried as white potatoes did in the old days. My belly is not bloated at all like last year and there is little gas (possibly from cooking). What is very welcome with complex-carbs this year (compared to last years gorging on buckwheat) is the loud grumble & rumble in the intestines is completely gone!
 
About two weeks ago I completely stopped eating carbs. For a few weeks before that I had been slowly reducing them as my body really didn't want to eat them. Since I stopped the carbs I feel better. I think that the LCHF diet revealed a low level carb sensitivity, or possibly a sulphite reaction as I was eating an onion with breakfast virtually every day.

So I ended up replacing the carbs with more meat, and I increased the amount of fat I eat at breakfast. I realised that I just wasn't eating enough of either. So, currently, breakfast looks like this: two slices of fatty pork belly; pork pattie; rasher of bacon – all grilled. I find that grilled meat agrees with me more than fried meat. I also add about 70g organic butter to my breakfast, and add all the fat from the grilled meat. Occasionally I reach a point of satiety before I've eaten everything but usually I eat the lot. And lick the bowl clean too!

As I've progressed with this diet, I've found myself effortlessly eating a smaller lunch (ham, cold bacon and butter) and just a couple of bacon rashers and butter for tea.

I don't need to lose any weight, quite the opposite, but I haven't gained any yet, although work colleagues have said that my face has filled out a little.

I've still got loose stools – actually, watery stools - but Allan and Lutz say that stools will normalize over time. Probably this will take a few months as I'm in my 50s. But the loose stool is not accompanied with any feelings of discomfort.

All in all though I'm feeling really good on this diet – both in my mood and my energy levels. I've also noticed that I'm not feeling the cold as much as I did when eating carbs. I've been experimenting with cold showers in the morning – it's quite exhilarating, after the initial shock! – and leaving off gloves and hat. Spring is in the air in my part of the UK, although the mornings are still pretty chilly. This time last year I was really feeling the cold and had to wrap up well to stay warm.

Laura said:
One thing I've lately become aware of is that it wasn't a good idea to reduce magnesium on the assumption that eating so much meat/fat would be sufficient. I've recently resumed taking it and it makes a positive difference in the way I feel and the way my system works. We discussed it here and think that, if the aquatic ape hypothesis is going anywhere in the right direction, we evolved getting a lot of magnesium by absorbing it through the skin while in sea water. I don't really like the stickiness of the transdermal method (though baths are okay), so taking some mag malate before bed (away from meals) seems to be the solution.

That makes sense. I take magnesium citrate as follows: 150mg with my first drink of water in the morning, then 200mg about an hour or so after breakfast. 200mg about an hour after tea, and another 200mg at bedtime. For the past two weeks I've been having every evening a footbath of magnesium chloride, and sometimes spraying a 50/50 solution of magnesium oil on my lower legs too. This is the only protocol I've found so far that effectively helps to stop the night time twitches and cramps in my calves and feet. Plus it really helps me to have a good night's sleep!

Carolyn Dean says that it takes about 5 – 6 weeks of daily transdermal magnesium to replenish the body's magnesium levels. I suspect that my body's magnesium stores were significantly depleted by my ill health last year, and by drinking distilled water, which I suspect actually leaches minerals out of the body. Dean says also that magnesium levels are at their lowest in the body in the early morning and late afternoon, hence there's no need to take any in the middle of the day.
 
Endymion said:
For the past two weeks I've been having every evening a footbath of magnesium chloride, and sometimes spraying a 50/50 solution of magnesium oil on my lower legs too. This is the only protocol I've found so far that effectively helps to stop the night time twitches and cramps in my calves and feet. Plus it really helps me to have a good night's sleep!

This is something I have to try, because I sometimes have these night time twitches and cramps in my calves and feet too, so thank you for sharing your own experiment! ;)

Endymion said:
Carolyn Dean says that it takes about 5 – 6 weeks of daily transdermal magnesium to replenish the body's magnesium levels. I suspect that my body's magnesium stores were significantly depleted by my ill health last year, and by drinking distilled water, which I suspect actually leaches minerals out of the body. Dean says also that magnesium levels are at their lowest in the body in the early morning and late afternoon, hence there's no need to take any in the middle of the day.

I use to take 125ml/cc of magnesium chloride between 10:00 am and 11:00 am (because I use to take my Vit. C on the breakfast) with 250 mg of citrate magnesium and the same between 10:00 pm and 11:00 pm, at bedtime... So maybe it could be a good experiment to take some citrate (125mg) on the morning before the breakfast and do as usually for the others moment of the day.
 
Gawan said:
In a really short time my teeth tend to build up calculus. I was at the dentist about a month ago to remove it and check the overall health of my teeth, but after three weeks calculus is coming back. Well, I improved my cleaning technique after the visit and brushed every morning and before going to bed my teeth nonetheless dental calculus is showing up.

I also had calculus problems and my teeth got stained very easily with tea. My dentist told me to do sodium bicarbonate mouth washes as often as I can in order to change the pH in my saliva. So I've been doing that before and after I drink tea and it seems to have done the trick.

But those of you who are still having gum problems in this diet or calculus build-up regardless of more effective cleaning methods, you might want to try vitamin K2:

_http://freetheanimal.com/2012/01/vitamin-k2-menatetrenone-weston-a-price-activator-xor-whateverits-amazing.html

[...] At this point, I'm just going to point you to the number of posts I've done on Vitamin K2 that seem to signal that it's somewhat of a "miracle" nutrient. But not really. I don't buy into any of the "superfood" crap, really—unless maybe you're talking beef liver, oysters, mussels, fish roe, etc...and who does that? In point of fact, it's not a miracle at all but rather, something that was relatively plentiful in ancestral diets and is almost absent now.

So rather, let me tell a story.

To preface it, I must mention a dentist of the early 20th century, Weston A. Price, who had a clever idea. Rather than try to find out directly why he had teenager patients with rotted teeth to the tune of 1 in 3, and whom he was fitting for dentures—not to mention the corrective orthodontic work that often needed doing—he set out to find out if there were populations without either of those problems (rotten teeth and crowded teeth).

He found it in spades. You can read all about it for free with lots of photos, courtesy of Project Gutenberg: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, published in 1939, I believe. Over about 10 years in the 1920s and 30s, he and his wife travelled the world to seek out primitive populations that were out of normal contact and trade with the modern world. That is, they lived by their own means. He found what I consider to be three very important things: almost no dental cavities (about 1 tooth in 1,000 vs. 1 in 3 in the modern world), wide dental bridges (no need for "braces"), and near effortless childbirth (wide birth canals in females). To round things out, he came home and used what he found to correct tooth decay in his patients. That is, he got cavities to remineralize.

Now we're talkin' minerals, the unifying, connect-the-dots theme!

It was in the mid and late 90's when I began to have regular appointments with the dentist and his hygienist. They referred me to a periodontist, a surgeon who specializes in gum issues. Seems I had some "deep pockets," as they call them, towards the back of my molars where cleanings could not get to. (I had both corrective orthodontics—"braces"—as a kid, and had my "wisdom" teeth pulled in college—and loved the "percs".)

...Never did I stop to wonder how animals in the wild can possibly manage...without regular brushing, flossing, cleanings and...dental surgery.

Because I was still struggling along in business, several years away from hitting a stride, I just opted for the cleanings every three months over the surgery that would set me back a few thousand. I had no insurance, and wasn't interested in having any of you—or anyone else—pay my way. ...I'm so fucking weird about that shit...

In 2001, with things looking up, I went for the dental surgery—two of them...one side top & bottom, then the other. It helped. While I still had to use the numbing mouthwash before each cleaning, it was more effective in those deep pocket areas that used to catapult me to the ceiling in pain when the hygienist would probe them with her sharp poker. This went on for years. The surgery was like a reset button. OK, now 3 cleanings per year, and while things are back to reasonable, it's still only a progression until such time that surgery is required again. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

And then in 2008 everything changed. I attribute it to both the better Paleo diet, but also the micronutrient; again, the subject of the post.

I initially went with Green Pastures Butter Oil capsules, and that was remarkable. After a couple of rounds, I went on the cheap and got the synthetic drops from Thorne. Didn't notice much difference either way and so later, I began with the K2 Complex from Life Extension Foundation—that I remained on up until a few months ago. The small gel caps were convenient. But the thing is, some of the luster went out of the whole experience. I seemed to still get calculus buildup on my teeth and they felt "rough" in a number of places. It's especially severe on the inside of the lower front teeth. I would at times stick a wooden toothpick through there and important chunks of mineralized deposits would break off.

I still had cleanings; and while things were actually improving rather than getting worse, there was really nothing to write home about. But still, I haven't had a cleaning in at least over a year. It may be approaching 2 years...and the dentist office has stopped calling to schedule.

I was kind of getting to the point of forgetting about the whole problem, comfortable in the knowledge that things weren't optimal, but at least not totally out of hand, as they were before.

But a few months ago, I ordered the original butter oil from Green Pastures—Price's original formulation. I noticed some improvement over the first several days, much like I recall from the beginning. It's in the smoothness of your teeth, particularly upon waking in the morning. And I thought...huh...why not go the distance? So, when my first two bottles ran out and I re-ordered again, this time I also got the fermented cod liver oil caps. Two caps per day of each and the measurable results have been nothing short of phenomenal.

Gobsmacking phenomenal!

But shit-hell all over the place...it goes to all that bullshit on the Internet, does't it? Yea, some berry from the rain forrest that 99% of the evolved people on Planet Earth never ate is some "superfood" you just can't do without. Well, guess what? The nutrient I've been talking about is relatively prevalent in all natural diets—so long as you eat the whole thing. At the equator. At the arctic. At sea level. At 16,000 feet. And everyplace in between. Just eat the whole animal.

...Or, as a modern person like me, find ways to supplement when you aren't regularly chowing down on bone marrow, organs, fish eggs and the like.

So to conclude the story, here I sit, about 10 years after having gum surgery with before and after experiences of several major teeth cleanings per year and I really don't even find a need to brush my teeth. I can literally go days and my teeth remain as though they were pearls in an oyster shell and my tongue is the flesh that explores them. And my gums have not the slightest hint of inflammation, swelling, or anything of the sort. It is remarkable.

Whatever.

Aside from the weight loss via Paleo that got me started on this track in the first place: this, of all things, has been the most remarkably significant and easy to verify aspect of the whole deal. ...And while supplementing vitamin D has also seemed to have a big impact, I don't really have concrete results I can point too. Yea, Beatrice and I rarely, if ever, get sick anymore, and I seem to be able to kill a cold in a day or two by upping the D sups, but it's simply not so much of a concrete and profound result confounded by variables and randomness as has been the K2, given my history of teeth and gum issues.

Update: 2 things. First, someone mentioned in comments about bleeding gums, especially during brushing. Yes, that too. I always used to bleed when brushing and haven't done so a single time in years, now.

Second, someone wanted the product links to what I use. I didn't put them in there originally because I didn't want people to assume I had any affiliate relationship. I don't. I use the capsule form of these: butter oil, and fermented cod liver oil.

Update 2: This just in, a pretty good TEEVEE video on K2, though it doesn't make any distinction between subforms. But listen for the theme, about K2 being the thing that causes calcium to go where it should (bones & teeth) and not where it shouldn't (soft tissues like coronary arteries). Been saying it since 2008.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNVK1QHegb4&feature=player_embedded

He used butter oil and fermented cod liver oil as supplements which has what Weston Price called the "Activating X" factor that is so healthy for us, but it seems that the benefits are mainly attributed mainly to the Vitamin K2 or Menatetrenone which is an isoform of Vitamin K2.

More info:

Why Fermented Cod Liver Oil?

http://www.greenpasture.org/node/80

1. Fermented fish liver oils are extracted without heat but rather a natural lacto-fermentation

2. We select exclusively organ tissue as the source of the fermented fish oils (compared to industrial model fish oils) as this is where the nutrients are located. There is much more to fish oil nutrients than EPA and DHA. It is only because of the heavy industrialization of this industry that this field of products has nothing else to discuss but Omega 3, EPA and DHA. These nutrients will occur naturally in all fish oils including the fermented clo/skate liver oil. I think the real story is in the thousands of micro nutrients that are provided in a Fermented fish oil.

3. Fermented liver oils are a deep rich pigment. Pigments are nutrients.

4. The oils have a 8-9mg/g total quinone count. Butter oil is in the 23-25 mg/g range. These figures are very high! The complex of the quinones is completely different between the fish liver oils and the butter oil. Even the quinone complex between the different fish oils is unique (variety is complete nutrition). Quinones consist of nutrients such as vitamin K’s, vitamin E’s, CoQ enzymes and other known and unknown nutrients/components.

5.
Lacto-fermentation transforms natural vitamin A into different metabolites that are easily absorbed into our bodies (just as in your gut if your gut is working properly). I have found reference to at least 15 different natural forms of Vitamin A that nature provides. Not just the 2-3 that are commonly discussed.

6. There are over 3000 derivatives of vitamin D. Many are natural and others are produced in laboratories. Not much of the vitamin D topic is understood or discussed in mainstream science. Current discussions are just scratching the surface of the topic. Reminder, vitamin D is more accurately categorized as a hormone, not a vitamin.

7. At some point I would like to see the science on the effects of plant hormones and a variety of quinones as they relate to human health. Science is just starting to look at these questions.

8. Efficacy — there is a difference between the processed cod liver oil and the fermented CLO.

9. It takes 6 months to 1 year to make fermented cod liver oil. This is why it is no longer made.

10. Fish oils have historically been fermented for extraction; back in the Roman empire days, Viking era and all the way up to the Mid 1850′s. Rendering was introduced during the mid 1850′s as a more efficient fish liver processing method. The livers yielded a much higher total oil volume and the process could be accomplished in several hours rather than several months. What they did not understand is the effects that heat had on the nutrients (their science was not ready to address this question) . As with all industrial models, the focus was on: profitability, speed or turns and, marketability (taste).

11. Economical. Substantially more nutrients (including A/D) per ml or teaspoon compared to other brands.

Vitamin K2, menatetrenone (MK-4)

_wholehealthsource.blogspot.fr/2008/06/vitamin-k2-menatetrenone-mk-4.html

Weston Price established the importance of the MK-4 isoform of vitamin K2 (hereafter, K2) with a series of interesting experiments. He showed in chickens that blood levels of calcium and phosphorus depended both on vitamin A and K2, and that the two had synergistic effects on mineral absorption. He also showed that chickens preferred eating butter that was rich in K2 over butter low in K2, even when the investigators couldn't distinguish between them. Young turkeys fed K2-containing butter oil along with cod liver oil (A and D) also grew at a much faster rate than turkeys fed cod liver oil alone.

He hypothesized that vitamin A, vitamin D and vitamin K2 were synergistic and essential for proper growth and subsequent health. He particularly felt that the combination was important for proper mineral absorption and metabolism. He used a combination of high-vitamin cod liver oil and high-vitamin butter oil to heal cavities, reduce oral bacteria counts, and cure numerous other afflictions in his patients. He also showed that the healthy non-industrial groups he studied had a much higher intake of these fat-soluble, animal-derived vitamins than more modern cultures.

Price found an inverse correlation between the levels of K2 in butter and mortality from cardiovascular disease and pneumonia in a number of different regions. A recent study examined the relationship between K2 (MK-4 through 10) consumption and heart attack risk in 4,600 Dutch men. They found a strong inverse association between K2 consumption and heart attack mortality risk. Men with the highest K2 consumption had a whopping 51% lower risk of heart attack mortality and a 26% lower risk of death from all causes compared to men eating the least K2! Their sources of K2 MK-4 were eggs, meats and dairy. They obtained MK-5 through MK-10 from fermented foods and fish. The investigators found no association with K1, the form found in plants.

Perigord, France is the world's capital of foie gras, or fatty goose liver. Good news for the bon vivants: foie gras turns out to be the richest known source of K2. Perigord also has the lowest rate of cardiovascular mortality in France, a country already noted for its low CVD mortality.

Rats fed warfarin, a drug that inhibits K2 recycling, develop arterial calcification. Feeding the rats K2 completely inhibits this effect. Mice lacking matrix Gla protein (MGP), a vitamin K-dependent protein that guards against arterial calcification, develop heavily calcified aortas and die prematurely. So the link between K2 and cardiovascular disease is a very strong one.

Mammals can synthesize K2 MK-4 from K1 to some degree, so dietary K1 and other forms of vitamin K may contribute to K2 MK-4 status.

The synergism Weston Price observed between vitamins A, D and K2 now has a solid mechanism. In a nutshell, vitamins A and D signal the production of some very important proteins, and K2 is required to activate them once they are made. Many of these proteins are involved in mineral metabolism, thus the effects Price saw in his experiments and observations in non-industrialized cultures. For example, osteocalcin is a protein that organizes calcium and phosphorus deposition in the bones and teeth. It's produced by cells in response to vitamins A and D, but requires K2 to perform its function. This suggests that the effects of vitamin D on bone health could be amplified greatly if it were administered along with K2. By itself, K2 is already highly protective against fractures in the elderly. It works out perfectly, since K2 also protects against vitamin D toxicity.

I'm not going to go through all the other data on K2 in detail, but suffice it to say it's very very important. I believe that K2 is a 'missing link' that explains many of our modern ills, just as Weston Price wrote. Here are a few more tidbits to whet your appetite: K2 may affect glucose control and insulin release (1, 2). It's concentrated in the brain, serving an as yet unknown function.

Hunter-gatherers didn't have multivitamins, they had nutrient-dense food. As long as you eat a natural diet containing some vegetables and some animal products, and lay off the processed grains, sugar and vegetable oil, the micronutrients will take care of themselves.

Vitamin K2, MK-4 is only found in animal products. The best sources known are grass-fed butter from cows eating rapidly growing grass, and foie gras. K2 tends to associate with beta-carotene in butter, so the darker the color, the more K2 it contains (also, the better it tastes). Fish eggs, other grass-fed dairy, shellfish, insects and other organ meats are also good sources. Chris Masterjohn compiled a list of food sources in his excellent article on the Weston Price foundation website. I highly recommend reading it if you want more detail. K2 MK-7 is found abundantly in natto, a type of fermented soybean, and it may be partially converted to MK-4.

Finally, you can also buy K2 supplements. The best one is butter oil, the very same stuff Price used to treat his patients. I have used this one personally, and I noticed positive effects on my skin overnight. Thorne research makes a synthetic liquid K2 MK-4 supplement that is easy to dose drop-wise to get natural amounts of it. Other K2 MK-4 supplements are much more concentrated than what you could get from food so I recommend avoiding them. I am generally against supplements, but I've ordered the Thorne product for a little self-experimentation. I want to see if it has the same effect on my skin as the butter oil (update- it does).

This last post is from 2008, but since some people already on a paleo diet saw their gum and teeth problems improve with vitamin K2 supplementation, I thought it might be worth trying. Some sources of butter and meats that people are getting are not the best ones, so supplementation might be worth trying. As the guy said: "...Or, as a modern person like me, find ways to supplement when you aren't regularly chowing down on bone marrow, organs, fish eggs and the like."

I would not eat natto nor dairy products other than butter regardless if they are considered rich in vitamin K2 though. I also have my doubts about foie gras since those birds are forced fed corn and then they have to be sacrificed before they die from fatty liver...
 
Psyche said:
Funny, because I stumble upon that blog post earlier this morning and decided to have a look. The reference that Nora gives is from those authors, but 1975. Melissa gives a paper from 1974 which sums up the science of coprolites so to speak. So I went and had a look at the listings of publications from 1975 and looking around found other articles where they quoted Bryant and Williams-Dean and the studies of coprolites in general. It seems to me that Melissa is splitting hairs...

Psyche,

I agree about the splitting hairs. I do sometimes like to check references, though. Melissa was indeed responding to the paper referenced and paraphrased by Nora in Primal Body, Primal Mind. There is no other paper in Scientific American from 1975 that I was able locate, but the article in question was written, copyrighted, and published in 1974, as the January 1975 issue.

It doesn't change my use of Nora's book as a primary guide, or my recommendation of it, and I have been picking up other information from her podcast archive and other sources. I will be more a little more careful, though, about fact checking when I pass on information from this book or any of my other sources.
 
This is something I have been meaning to ask for months and last night's experience just prompted me to do so now.

I have never had problems with extreme heat prior to the paleo diet, however, since having started, whenever I get too close to a source of heat I get bouts of nausea that have led to throwing up a couple of times. It took me a while to track down what was causing it until I realized, a few months ago, that whenever I slept with a hot water bottle I would wake up in the middle of the night to vomit.

Also, having been extremely sensitive to cold since a teenager I always liked to be near a radiator, sometimes even seating on top of one. In fact, my spot at work is just next (as in almost glued) to the radiator. Over the past year, however, I have been moving place or keeping the radiator off because of the nausea.

I thought I had this heat issue controlled until last night. I woke up at 4am feeling very nauseous again, and the only thing that brought relief was to lie down on the floor almost naked until my body cooled down enough for me to start shivering. Once cold, the nausea was gone. It has been getting warmer in London with the Spring but I have been sleeping with the same amount of layers I did throughout the Winter, so my body got too hot which, once again, caused nausea.

Prior to the diet I had never before experienced this, which is what has made me establish the connection. However, I can't really be sure whether they are indeed related, so I'm very curious to know whether anyone else has been experiencing anything similar.
 
Psyche said:
Gawan said:
In a really short time my teeth tend to build up calculus. I was at the dentist about a month ago to remove it and check the overall health of my teeth, but after three weeks calculus is coming back. Well, I improved my cleaning technique after the visit and brushed every morning and before going to bed my teeth nonetheless dental calculus is showing up.

I also had calculus problems and my teeth got stained very easily with tea. My dentist told me to do sodium bicarbonate mouth washes as often as I can in order to change the pH in my saliva. So I've been doing that before and after I drink tea and it seems to have done the trick.

Ah cool thanks… I was planning opening a topic about it, cause also when I brush diligently my teeth in the morning right after breakfast and before going to bed with salt, baking powder, baking soda and xylotol I built up again calculus and teeth are beginning to get a bit yellow again (after professional tooth cleaning) and kind of plaque. But eventually I'm eventually a little bit prone for 'coloring' that means nicotine takes it's toll too, also when I only smoke maximum of ten cigarettes a day.

And I give it a go with mouthwashes and reading the suggested articles.

SeekinTruth said:
Just a note, Gawan. You are a special case with "type 1" diabetes, so you might not necessarily need to fall into the general guidelines of Dr. Kruse. Anyway, everyone will have different experiences and take different amount of time to get to the goal: eating breakfast and not getting hungry until dinner is great if and when you get there. And NO snacking. But as I said, it's different in your case and other things are driving your physiological processes that need to be taken into consideration (e.g. blood sugar, insulin, etc.). So you should proceed carefully and snack if you have to or eat more often, etc.

Thanks for your concern, since snacking would mainly be meat or buttered tea it doesn't has an effect on the blood sugar, since it low/to no energy speaking of carbs. Anyway I'm correcting the main BG with the basal rate I can set lower, it takes a while but seems to be the best way. And if there are really emergencies I go for cane sugar cubes. As I wrote on the Cry-Chamber topic it's now possible to last much longer without snacking (5-6hrs after breakfast or even longer when I'm really busy)


Gertrudes said:
Prior to the diet I had never before experienced this, which is what has made me establish the connection. However, I can't really be sure whether they are indeed related, so I'm very curious to know whether anyone else has been experiencing anything similar.

One question I would have, when do you normally eat supper and at which time do you go to bed? Cause my experience with nausea is, that food/(especially) buttered tea can take up to 6 hrs until it is digested and caused me at times nausea in the middle of the night.
 

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