"Life Without Bread"

[SeekinTruth]

Serg, it may be that you're becoming sensitive to fiber AND the carbs/sugars in fruits and vegetables. I don't know if you had a period where you ate very little to no fiber and then ate it again. But, that's the experience for me and my family. After months of eating almost exclusively fatty meat, any of us eats just a little too much fiber (like more than a couple of tablespoons of cooked or raw plant food) we get stomach aches and it can be pretty nasty.

 

[Tomek]

4th week of very low carb (15-20g/day) & high fat diet. I'm doing fine. The first two weeks were painful, even if I was already on a low car diet for months before. I'm full of energy during the morning, I'm always eating a huge breakfast with organic eggs, butter, bacon cooked in goose fat and ham. But I'm still feeling quite tired during the afternoon. After 3 weeks, is that normal ? I'm also taking spirulina, vitamin c, vitamin b, cod liver oil (for vitamin d), magnesium and alphalipoic acid. I don't have trouble falling asleep, but I wake up during the night.

 

[melatonin]

You're welcome, webglider. Happy searching/learning and hope you find something beneficial from your readings.


melatonin, a couple of things to be aware of about canned salmon, besides mercury, is that it could be in evil oils (vegetable oils) and the can can have a PBA lining which leaches into the fish. So be careful what you buy. I think radiation and oil spill toxicity is another thing lately to be concerned about.

As far as sugar removal, it really does get easier after a few weeks of elimination. That was the first thing I eliminated (along with refined grains/flours) after a lifetime of being a sugar junkie, about six years ago, although I was still eating lots of fruits in season. After a while your cravings will subside, especially if you're reducing ALL carbs (which break down into sugars) slowly and you've eliminated casein and gluten. Just increase you're good fat intake as you lower carbs and whenever you get hungry, eat something fatty. In most cases that will keep you satiated. Good luck.

I forgot about the Nuclear Fallout, damn, theres so little that safe and healthy to eat. This is mind-blowingly hard! I think this thread needs changing to the "life without opiates" thread, since that would better describe it!

 

[Ollie]

4th week of very low carb (15-20g/day) & high fat diet. I'm doing fine. The first two weeks were painful, even if I was already on a low car diet for months before. I'm full of energy during the morning, I'm always eating a huge breakfast with organic eggs, butter, bacon cooked in goose fat and ham. But I'm still feeling quite tired during the afternoon. After 3 weeks, is that normal ? I'm also taking spirulina, vitamin c, vitamin b, cod liver oil (for vitamin d), magnesium and alphalipoic acid. I don't have trouble falling asleep, but I wake up during the night.

Yes, it is to an extent, even with having been on a low carb diet for months before. From three weeks progress to three months. :) The problem may be that you are eating too much protein (see bold above) which is then converted into carbs - this may be the cause of the tiredness.

See/read Primal Body Primal Mind thread/ book where it is suggested that a maximum of 25g of protein is consumed for any meal, and there is a corresponding total amount of protein to eat during the day, depending on your body weight (Protein Power - Eades (also discussed in the above thread)), also. many of us had this problem in the early days.

 

[liffy]

See/read Primal Body Primal Mind thread/ book where it is suggested that a maximum of 25g of protein is consumed for any meal, and there is a corresponding total amount of protein to eat during the day, depending on your body weight (Protein Power - Eades (also discussed in the above thread)), also. many of us had this problem in the early days.

Then again, Jack Kruse recommends doubling that for breakfast, at least for the so-called leptin reset.

 

[Jeremy F Kreuz]

just want to give a bit of an update on my diet -been now almost three weeks on low carb - high fat (less then 15 grams Carbs) and feel in general better than before. More aware, more present, more able to observe myself and the programs installed. I did have some mild adjustment pains - weakness in the legs was the main one. Last friday I developped a severe pain uner the right collar bone that kept hurting for about 24 hours and then dissappeared. Cravings are dimishing and have almost gone completely now. Like others have mentioned I still feel tired in the afternoon - around four o´clock. What I eat for the moment : morning or afternoon bacon and eggs - morning or afternoon Salmon or dry sausage (all organic). Evening I eat a piece of fatty pork or liver or other organ. Supplements: Potassium, Vit D, fish oil, Thistlemilk, magnesium and lots of Vitamin C.

On sunday we went to a restaurant and I had some duck with veggies in a Thai chili sauce. It did not go down well. Felt grumpy on monday - today. Is it possible that the tiniest deviation of the diet is having direct impact?

 

[truth seeker]

On sunday we went to a restaurant and I had some duck with veggies in a Thai chili sauce. It did not go down well. Felt grumpy on monday - today. Is it possible that the tiniest deviation of the diet is having direct impact?

It's absolutely possible. What we eat can definitely affect our emotional state as well as physically.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

4th week of very low carb (15-20g/day) & high fat diet. I'm doing fine. The first two weeks were painful, even if I was already on a low car diet for months before. I'm full of energy during the morning, I'm always eating a huge breakfast with organic eggs, butter, bacon cooked in goose fat and ham. But I'm still feeling quite tired during the afternoon. After 3 weeks, is that normal ?

Hi Polonel, Are you getting plenty of salt? I used to get tired in the afternoons too, but that stopped when I added more salt to my diet.

 

[SeekinTruth]

4th week of very low carb (15-20g/day) & high fat diet. I'm doing fine. The first two weeks were painful, even if I was already on a low car diet for months before. I'm full of energy during the morning, I'm always eating a huge breakfast with organic eggs, butter, bacon cooked in goose fat and ham. But I'm still feeling quite tired during the afternoon. After 3 weeks, is that normal ?

Hi Polonel, Are you getting plenty of salt? I used to get tired in the afternoons too, but that stopped when I added more salt to my diet.

Polonel, it is not unusual for three weeks into it. Different people had different experiences and time spans. Salt increase is a good idea (sea salt or rock salt) to try. It's usually quite energizing and you tend to lose more salt and other minerals through urination on this diet, especially in the beginning. Another thing is that dropping your carbs too low too fast may be an issue with many. I think you can play around with the carbs making sure you don't go over 40 to 50 grams of net carbs (not including the weight of fiber because it doesn't digest).

Increasing your fat is another very likely thing to help. Are you already in Ketosis? Everyone is different, and takes a different amount of time to switch to fat burning metabolism. Generally, the younger and healthier, the faster the switch and adaptation -- around average 4 - 6 weeks. Where older people, people with health issues -- particularly metabolic and digestive issues, etc. -- can take 3 to 6 months to get fully adjusted.

Another issue is that many people will feel great for a couple of months and THEN the tiredness sets in. Again, you need to experiment with the intake of carbs, salt, fat, etc. Generally, once adjusted pretty well, you'll see that even your total calorie intake may go down a bit. For example I've been eating about 70 to 85% of my total calories as fat (almost all of it saturated), the rest as protein, and very little carbs -- 10 to 20 grams -- for over a year. Not only do I never get hungry because fat is a much more efficient, slow burning fuel (I eat breakfast and dinner only), I seem to be able to live on a couple of hundred calories less without losing weight. I actually gained just a little bit of muscle mass (which is denser/weighs 3 times more than fat) without any type of exercise.

BUT myself and others have found that at different times, things need to be adjusted. Like I may either need to lower fat consumption a little or increase it, and same with carbs -- I sometimes feel better by increasing about 10 to 15 grams (I don't have much room to lower them). The longer you're on the diet the better you'll feel and the more you'll know what to adjust if things change and they do change sometimes. For example the fat to protein ratio is a tricky one, especially in the beginning. Not enough fat, you get constipated. Too much you can get loose stools (and it can be greasy / contain undigested fat). Hope this helps.

 

[SeekinTruth]

On sunday we went to a restaurant and I had some duck with veggies in a Thai chili sauce. It did not go down well. Felt grumpy on monday - today. Is it possible that the tiniest deviation of the diet is having direct impact?

It's absolutely possible. What we eat can definitely affect our emotional state as well as physically.

Yeah, eating out always has the risk of contamination with gluten and/or casein and other nasty stuff -- especially sauces, etc. Chili could be quite inflammatory, as well.

 

[Tomek]

How can I determine if I'm in ketosis ? With the urine test sticks, for example ? If so, during the morning ? At noon ?

I'm also eating some low-carb veggies, like sprouts, asparagus, broccolis, spinachs, cauliflowers... I don't feel inflamed after a lunch, so I guess they're OK for me.

At home, I always add a pinch of pink salt in my water, and I always use salted butter. This morning, I ate less eggs and no ham, with a lot more butter and two spoons of coconut oil. We'll see ! Thanks for your advices, I'll update my situation, if necessary, next monday.

 

[SeekinTruth]

How can I determine if I'm in ketosis ? With the urine test sticks, for example ? If so, during the morning ? At noon ?

I'm also eating some low-carb veggies, like sprouts, asparagus, broccolis, spinachs, cauliflowers... I don't feel inflamed after a lunch, so I guess they're OK for me.

At home, I always add a pinch of pink salt in my water, and I always use salted butter. This morning, I ate less eggs and no ham, with a lot more butter and two spoons of coconut oil. We'll see ! Thanks for your advices, I'll update my situation, if necessary, next monday.

While there is the possibility of using the urine test sticks, it doesn't necessarily mean you are in ketosis, as far as I understand. This is only measuring ketones in the urine, not whether your metabolism has switched. As the process of adaptation to ketosis metabolism progresses, there's actually supposed to be less ketones in the urine. I never used the keto-sticks. Another way to try to gauge if you're in ketosis is by your energy level and fat vs. carb intake.

If your carb intake is below about 60 grams net for several weeks, you should be in ketosis or about to be in ketosis -- the threshold for both net carbs and duration of time is different for different people. At this point, if you don't get enough fat (at least about 60 to 65% of calories), you will be very low energy, as your primary fuel will not be enough i.e you won't be getting enough fat OR carbs to burn as primary fuel. This is just my opinion, but if you lowered your carbs slowly and kept it below 60 to 65 grams for at least 3 to 6 weeks, you probably should be in ketosis.

However, some people need to be below 50 grams of net carbs (and maybe longer in duration) to switch to fat burning. At any rate 40 grams or less of net carbs should put most people into ketosis after a several weeks. The other thing to be aware of is having a large amount of carbs at one time, e.g. you have 30 grams of net carbs in one meal (especially if there isn't a lot of fat at the same time) can knock you out of ketosis even if you didn't exceed 40 grams per day. This will also be accompanied by not feeling well and being very low energy, because you're not consuming enough carbs to fuel your system and you're out of fat burning metabolism. Also, switching back and forth from sugar burning to fat burning takes its toll.

When you haven't switched to ketosis yet, or if you get knocked out of ketosis early in the process, your body will probably convert most of the protein you're eating into glucose to use as fuel. Again, you will tend to feel bad, low energy (and won't have enough protein for maintenance and repair).

All the veggies you mentioned could be problematic, as they're all cruciferous (which interfere with thyroid function) and tend to have other problems such as being high in oxalic acid, etc. So you might want to limit your veggies to green beans and yams / sweet potatoes -- small portions with lots of fat on them. And maybe very little lettuce, arugula, parsley, or cilantro for raw greens. I hope this is clear and helpful.

 

[Nienna]

At home, I always add a pinch of pink salt in my water, and I always use salted butter. This morning, I ate less eggs and no ham, with a lot more butter and two spoons of coconut oil. We'll see ! Thanks for your advices, I'll update my situation, if necessary, next monday.

If you've read this whole thread, it is noted that eating more meat/fat means that you lose a lot more salt. So much more salt is needed on the paleo diet. If what you wrote above is all the salt you are taking, it is not near enough. There are several articles on SOTT that explain that salt is not the enemy as has been proclaimed by the "diet police" - the mainstream nutritionists.

I'd up the salt and see how it goes for you. As Seekin Truth has said, everyone is different so you'll have to experiment.

I use a lot of salt when cooking my food.

 

[Tomek]

If you've read this whole thread, it is noted that eating more meat/fat means that you lose a lot more salt. So much more salt is needed on the paleo diet. If what you wrote above is all the salt you are taking, it is not near enough. There are several articles on SOTT that explain that salt is not the enemy as has been proclaimed by the "diet police" - the mainstream nutritionists.

Oh well, yes, I wasn't very clear, sorry. Adding salt to water is NOT my only salt income : I cook with a lot of salt, too ! I could add even more salt to most of my meals (I've always prefered salt over sugar since I was a child), but I keep in mind that "too much salt" could do some harm. Is this true, or should I just trust my taste buds concerning the "right" amount of salt ?

{the whole post}

Thanks for the advices. I don't get the part about sweet potatoes, they're full of carbs. If I should have some of them on a meal, that would be in a very small, symbolic quantity. I should just eat my pork chop without veggies, then.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Polonel, you can probably have half of a medium sweet potato with your pork chop (you can also load it up with fat). As long as you don't go over about 20 to 25 grams of net carbs in any meal (and more than 40 to 50 grams net carbs per day), you shouldn't be knocked out of ketosis. Are there other greens you can eat? There are a whole bunch of greens here in my country that come out right around this time (actually already about a month) and then in another month or so, most of them will no longer be in season. I don't know the English name for most of them (one is the green from beets, but the rest are just local green vegs). I eat those cooked in lots of fat and some onions and garlic (if you're sensitive, skip the onions/garlic). BUT, and this is important, I can't eat more than a couple of tablespoons a day of these, not because of the carbs, but too much fiber doesn't sit well with me now -- I and the rest of my family have become sensitive, it seems. We go long periods without eating ANY plant based food (other than onions and parsley or cilantro in the pork burgers), so you can try that if you want. It seems the more we do that, the less tolerant we become to plant based food. FWIW.

As far as the salt issue, try experimenting, but as you get adjusted to this diet, your taste WILL tell you how much salt to eat.