"Life Without Bread"

Yes very interesting concerning your experience with hot food, Gertrudes. Recently our family has grown very weary of our 'winter diet'(high fat/low carb) and now that we are perspiring pretty much all day, it's hard to eat any hot food, especially high fat/protein.

As an experiment, we've upped the carb intake a bit, mostly in the form of cold salads(veggy and chicken) as well as more cold fish and seafood dishes(ceviche) with positive results.

I'm guessing it does have something to do with temperature, both food and environment. I wonder if the Inuit groups could sustain on their high fat/zero carb diet if they lived in the tropics?

Also, as Foxx mentioned, beef has been a bit hard for us to eat regularly for the last couple of months. Fish, pork and chicken seem to digest much better in general.
 
Foxx said:
Megan,

I imagine you're already aware and have tried it, but in case you haven't, have you tried a FIR sauna blanket? Did it not work well for you? Obviously it's not a solution the the diet issues that you've brought up, but for your health otherwise I wonder if it would be helpful.

If one is looking for some results controlling, reducing body weight, toning mussels groups, and processing body toxins, it is going be to ones advantage to just include some sort of exercise regiment on a regular basis.
As anart had posted recent with here success as an example.

There really is no way health wise to accomplish any diet with success without some sort of routine evolving the body's ability to burn what it consumes. Food in equals heat out. To little exercise, and to much fuel is like revolving door, no matter how much time one sits in a thermal electric blanket.

Our bodies are incredibly efficient, and effective fuel burning units. With with proper hydration, the Paleo diet as the established food source, and considering optimizing what works for you (given ones level of activity and ability), you will soon find the grove as you condition your mental out look to rewire your thought process to trade the old for the new.

Time, and patience are your best friend in this endeavor.

anart said:
I have been on a very low carb, high fat diet now for a year and two months and I've never felt better in my life - no comparison. I've lost 42 pounds in that time and gained muscle mass. I don't have rashes, I don't have pain, I don't have headaches. I do occasionally have leg cramps when I'm not vigilant about keeping up with my magnesium and potassium - but that's it. By very low carb, I mean around 20 a day or less.

Paleo Diet

Paleo Nutrition Resources and Information
http://paleodiet.cz/?p=59

The Relationship Between Diet & Excerise

This is a little lesson explaining the effects that nutrition and exercise have on each other.
I. Diet modulates weight.
II. Exercise modulates body composition.

1. Nutrition quality will improve how fast you lose weight (and improve health).
2. Exercise intensity will improve how fast your body composition changes.

Everything can be derived from these sets of statements. Let’s look at a couple of common examples.


1. You are obese and want to slim down.
Losing weight depends on nutrition. This is also why six packs are said to be “made in the kitchen.”

A. If you are eating too many calories and/or junk calories, your body is not going to want to drop any weight at all.

B. Similarly, if you are eating much too few calories, your body does not want to drop weight as well because it’s going to enter starvation “energy saving” mode. This is a critical mistake that many people who want to lose weight make.

It is best to stick with an energy deficit of somewhere between about 300-500 calories below basal metabolic rate (may increase if activity increases).

In this case, exercise here is going to help modulate body composition while the pounds come off. For example, if you end up not exercising, your body will indiscriminately drop muscle mass as well as fat mass. However, exercising will help keep muscle mass and maybe even gain some while letting the body drop off fat mass which will improve body composition.

2.
You are at a “healthy weight” for your height, but want to “tone up” and gain muscle mass while losing fat.Exercise here is the most important for any significant body composition change. Depending on the different types of exercise, your body may see fit to increase muscle mass and/or burn off excess fat mass (in conjunction with proper nutrition).
Diet is still very important because quality foods will produce faster body composition changes. This depends a lot on genetics (hence why elite athletes can generally eat crap and get away with it), but even with good body composition changes with junky food may be at the expense of overall long term health.

3. The underweight person looking to “bulk up” with muscle.
Diet is the most important. This is a weight issue, and the person is looking to gain weight. Thus, they need to eat more.

This time around adding body mass will be variable according to the exercise (or lack thereof) because it affects body composition.

A. Lifting weights with a hypercaloric diet will tend to put on more muscle mass than fat.
B. Eating more without exercising tends to put on all fat as seen by the obesity rates in America.

Onto the details…..
I. Regarding the quality of diet

Quality of diet is highly dependent on the genetics of the individual. Some people may be allergic to foods such as gluten or dairy, and consuming such food would be detrimental to overall health.

The one thing we can say is that improvements in the quality of diet directly leads to results in weight (maintenance, gain or loss) as well as quality of health.

Since we literally are what we eat, if we take in junk food all the time our health is probably going to decline, and the body will probably gain weight as junk food has a high caloric value.

Healthy bodies operate better mentally, physically, and emotionally so it is VERY important to get high quality nutrients.

There is a simple rule you can follow. Here’s the link from the previous posts’ nutrition section.

Here’s a more detailed post by one of my friends if you’re curious beyond the above link.

I strongly advise eating Paleo. Check out Robb Wolf ( _http://robbwolf.com/ ) for more details.

II. Regarding the quality of exercise
High intensity or high power output exercise — heavy lifting, intervals, metabolic conditioning, etc. — produce the fastest body composition changes. In response to stress, your body produces a neuroendocrine response in which it releases a lot of anabolic hormones to help repair your tissues to adapt to the stressors. The stronger the stressors, the more hormones are released. Hormones will modulate your body composition through nutrient partitioning.

Damage to your muscles and their growth/adaptation require energy to repair which will be provided by through diet. If the energy need exceeds than of which the diet provides (hypocaloric diet for the obese & isocaloric diet for those who want to maintain weight), then the body tends to metabolize adipose tissue to supply the energy.

The regulation of body composition operates according to the law of diminishing returns (aka logarithmic scale). This means that the improvements will be much greater the higher the body fat percentage & with less muscle mass, but much lower as the body fat percentage drops & with more muscle mass.

One fitness myth is that you cannot add muscle and lose fat at the same time; this is wrong and occurs frequently in obese individuals who are losing weight while doing high intensity exercise. However, as the BF% drops into the teens and single digits, it does not occur as much if at all.

III.
Regarding the reliance of diet and exercise to each other
In general, we would tend to say that overall improvement of weight and body composition is 80-85% diet and 15-20% exercise. This is because we are eating almost 21 times per week (maybe more) and only working out about 3-5 times a week.

These are the times that you will be affecting your weight and body composition, so they need to be used wisely. We often taking eating and exercising for granted, but if you want to make any significant weight or body composition changes these times must be taken seriously. Both quality and quantity matter.

HAMMER NUTRITION

_http://www.hammernutrition.com/products/endurolytes.elt.html?navcat=fuels-energy-drinks
ENDUROLYTES ELECTROLYTE REPLACEMENT DONE RIGHT
Cramping is your body's final warning signal that you're on empty electrolyte-wise. When you've reached that point, the performance of many bodily systems has been severely compromised for some time. To keep your muscular, digestive, nervous, and cardiac systems firing on all cylinders, you need a consistent supply of all of the electrolytic minerals, not just sodium and potassium. Plus, in many instances, you require greater volumes of electrolytes than any sports drink or gel can provide. That is why Endurolytes fulfills such a crucial component of your fueling by supplying your body with a balanced, full-spectrum, rapidly assimilated electrolyte source, allowing you to meet your widely variable electrolyte needs with tremendous precision, hour after hour, no matter what the weather throws at you.

Extra Benefits:
Taking two or more Endurolytes before bed may help prevent night cramps and nighttime muscle twitching.
 

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c.a. said:
Foxx said:
Megan,

I imagine you're already aware and have tried it, but in case you haven't, have you tried a FIR sauna blanket? Did it not work well for you? Obviously it's not a solution the the diet issues that you've brought up, but for your health otherwise I wonder if it would be helpful.

If one is looking for some results controlling, reducing body weight, toning mussels groups, and processing body toxins, it is going be to ones advantage to just include some sort of exercise regiment on a regular basis.
As anart had posted recent with here success as an example.

Interesting that you would use me as an example of the value of exercise, because I didn't mention exercise. In fact, other than walking, housework and mowing the lawn, I don't really exercise. The muscle mass increase came along of its own accord with the diet and above mentioned activities - not a lick of what most people would consider 'exercise', though all of those activities do get me moving a bit... ;)
 
Foxx said:
Megan,

I imagine you're already aware and have tried it, but in case you haven't, have you tried a FIR sauna blanket? Did it not work well for you? Obviously it's not a solution the the diet issues that you've brought up, but for your health otherwise I wonder if it would be helpful.

Yes, I have a FIR sauna blanket. I also have been taking UltraBaths lately (recipe: 1 C baking soda, 2 C Epsom salts, add to bathtub Jacuzzi, fill with warm water and turn it on!).
 
c.a. said:
If one is looking for some results controlling, reducing body weight, toning mussels groups, and processing body toxins, it is going be to ones advantage to just include some sort of exercise regiment on a regular basis.
As anart had posted recent with here success as an example.

There really is no way health wise to accomplish any diet with success without some sort of routine evolving the body's ability to burn what it consumes. Food in equals heat out. To little exercise, and to much fuel is like revolving door, no matter how much time one sits in a thermal electric blanket.

Our bodies are incredibly efficient, and effective fuel burning units. With with proper hydration, the Paleo diet as the established food source, and considering optimizing what works for you (given ones level of activity and ability), you will soon find the grove as you condition your mental out look to rewire your thought process to trade the old for the new.

Time, and patience are your best friend in this endeavor.

Lately, the only exercise I've been doing is walking perhaps 1-2 miles per day between the buildings where I live (but did almost no exercise a couple of months ago with the same result). And as far as I know the calories in/calories out theory of fat gain and loss holds no water and the body fat as personal constitution and as inflammation and toxicity store-house is a much more coherent theory. I've been steady at about 140lbs for months, though gaining some muscle definition (so either fat loss or fat location change, perhaps), but within the last couple of weeks lost 5lbs without adjusting my exercise quantity, but after having re-introduced fish oil into my diet (I did consume fish irregularly before this). This isn't conclusive by any means, but worth following up on. I've also gone periods with very little exercise at all and not had any weight gain from it.

I imagine that calories play some role in the workings of the human body (though I'm honestly not exactly sure what, now), but I'm not seeing any strong evidence to support that it plays a major role in fat production or distribution--inflammation, toxicity, and glycation seem to play a much larger role from what I've read so far. There's also a lot of evidence that also supports this theory from FIR sauna usage. The quote you cited also doesn't seem to take epigenetics into account.

So I'm somewhat confused by your post c.a.

I would say knowledge would be one's best friend in a healing endeavor, rather than time and patience with something that isn't producing results and with no solid evidence or mechanism for backing up the thing being done. I think Megan's continued health issues are strong evidence that our knowledge remains incomplete on the topic of health, but I doubt an exercise regimen is simply the answer (and, I imagine, Megan has already tried such in the past, since it's currently the dominant theory in the mainstream).
 
Foxx said:
I would say knowledge would be one's best friend in a healing endeavor, rather than time and patience with something that isn't producing results and with no solid evidence or mechanism for backing up the thing being done. I think Megan's continued health issues are strong evidence that our knowledge remains incomplete on the topic of health, but I doubt an exercise regimen is simply the answer (and, I imagine, Megan has already tried such in the past, since it's currently the dominant theory in the mainstream).

There are a number of people here in that sort of situation. I find that light exercise such as walking can make me feel better (though not at the time) if I can stay cool. I used it to good effect when I lost weight through calorie counting some years ago. The fact that it was light exercise probably helped, since heavier exercise tends to stimulate appetite. I don't do heavy exercise -- it makes me feel ill; always has.

Catherine Shanahan presents some interesting ideas about exercise in Deep Nutrition but I have never encountered any other confirming source and I am reluctant to believe it. She says fat cells act like a kind of stem cell and can convert into other tissue types under the influence of exercise, or something to that effect. ("Dr. Cate's" office is not that far from where I live, and she has just started doing some consulting in addition to her primary care practice. Another possibility for finding answers.)
 
Hesper said:
Megan said:
Watch out for hidden carbs in supplements. They can be as much as the carbs from food, if your food carbs are very low. Not that it will necessarily hurt you, but if you want to see how your body runs on low carbs, it is something to take into account.

You know, I've been wondering about the carbs hidden in ascorbic acid since it's so sweet and tasty to me. I did a quick search and found this from PubMed. _http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/998544


Acute effect of ascorbic acid infusion on carbohydrate tolerance.


Large doses (1 to 2g/3 hr) of ascorbic acid were administered intravenously to normal weight and obese, nondiabetic subjects. Glucose tolerance and fasting plasma glucose levels were unaffected, despite a 3- to 8-fold rise in plasma concentrations of the vitamin. Infusion of ascorbic acid did not alter fasting serum insulin levels in normal subjects, but was associated with lower concentrations of hormone during an intravenous glucose tolerance test. Plasma glucose, serum insulin, growth hormone, and glucagon levels in obese subjects remained unchanged during the ascorbic acid infusion.

Are you sure your talking about ascorbic acid, Hesper? Because ascorbic acid, as all acids, is sour. You may mean a non-acidic vitamin C, i.e. a mineral ascorbate (e.g. sodium ascorbate, calcium ascorbate, zinc ascorbate, potassium ascorbate, etc). Or you may be taking vitamin C complex with added sugars/sweeteners, I'm not sure?

Also, it's quite likely that the PubMed mention of intravenous ascorbic acid infusion is not correct, which is quite common (there's been cases where the formula is written using sodium ascorbate solution but then repeatedly referred to it as ascorbic acid). The standard IV vitamin C is sodium ascorbate 50% solution which has a pH of 7.4 -- exactly the same as blood. However, the doctors that give IV-C would NOT consider 1 to 2 grams/3 hours "large doses," but begin at 25 grams and go up as needed. I don't know if they actually did administer the 1 to 2 grams as ascorbic acid, but even that would put huge stress on the patient, as the body would immediately have to bring the blood pH back to the range of 7.35 to 7.45 keeping the blood from becoming too acidic. The body will generally do whatever is necessary to keep the blood pH in that narrow range, including taking minerals from bones and other tissues and dumping them in the blood as a buffer if it's to acidic. I'd think that if any really large doses of IV-C were administered as ascorbic acid, like 25, 50 or more grams, it would do major harm, perhaps even killing the person. FWIW.
 
« Reply of Laura #3294 on: June 07, 2012,

But, up the carbs just a bit and I'm fine.

Hi, Laura. Does that means that you can allow yourself to eat some crusty pie or an spaghetti, once in a while?
 
caballero reyes said:
Hi, Laura. Does that means that you can allow yourself to eat some crusty pie or an spaghetti, once in a while?

I'm pretty sure not, because those would likely also include gluten (and probably other evil things) along with the carbs. Note what Laura said at the end of the same post:

Laura said:
We continue with low carbs but I know that if I feel a bit wonky, I can have a bit of green beans, a half a beet or sweet potato, or a small salad and I'll be fine.
 
caballero reyes said:
« Reply of Laura #3294 on: June 07, 2012,

But, up the carbs just a bit and I'm fine.

Hi, Laura. Does that means that you can allow yourself to eat some crusty pie or an spaghetti, once in a while?

Absolutely NOT! Are you NUTS?

Carbs are what you get in a few veggies and/or a handful of nuts.
 
Laura said:
caballero reyes said:
« Reply of Laura #3294 on: June 07, 2012,

But, up the carbs just a bit and I'm fine.

Hi, Laura. Does that means that you can allow yourself to eat some crusty pie or an spaghetti, once in a while?

Absolutely NOT! Are you NUTS?

Carbs are what you get in a few veggies and/or a handful of nuts.

Yeah, that was a weird question. Might there be a bit of black & white thinking going on among some of the followers of this topic, or am I projecting again?

One of the Kresser podcasts I listened to recently mentioned something to the effect that some carby foods might help support "good" gut flora. Maybe I can locate it in a transcript, if that particular podcast has a transcript. Examples were mushrooms and onions.

My recent experiences with nuts (not NUTS) have me avoiding them totally, because I go NUTS on them (bingeing). I don't know what that is about. At least I have established that I am not acutely allergic to them (or I would be dead). A regular small handful should be OK, for those with the necessary self control, especially if soaked. I don't know if soaking reduces the omega-6's, but it is a form of sprouting, reducing (not eliminating) anti-nutrients that would otherwise harm the plant.
 
I think that the problem is that a LOT of people are totally ignorant about the word "carbohydrate" and they automatically assume that it refers to breads, pastas, sweets, or whatever. And that's another reason why they don't have success with low-carbing because they aren't applying that term to the vegetables they eat which most certainly are carbohydrates.
 
On the issue of nuts, soaking reduces the anti-nutrients, as Megan mentioned, and I'm not sure if it does anything in the way of reducing omega-6's either. But, what about the roasting? Shouldn't it be done at a very low heat because of the high amounts of unsaturated fats in nuts? The issue of high amounts omega-6 in nuts may be OK if not too much is eaten (probably not a good idea to eat too much in any case) as those who are on this diet are getting plenty of omega-3's from the properly fed animal fats, even if they're not supplementing omega-3's, which many ARE supplementing, as well.

One other thing. As far as I remember, cashews have the lowest essential fatty acids out of all the nuts. But I don't know the mix of EFA's in them.
 
Megan said:
My recent experiences with nuts (not NUTS) have me avoiding them totally, because I go NUTS on them (bingeing). I don't know what that is about. At least I have established that I am not acutely allergic to them (or I would be dead). A regular small handful should be OK, for those with the necessary self control, especially if soaked. I don't know if soaking reduces the omega-6's, but it is a form of sprouting, reducing (not eliminating) anti-nutrients that would otherwise harm the plant.

I have experienced exactly the same. I first stopped eating nuts because they simply woke up in me that type of compulsive eating that being on a carb diet used to trigger. I really didn't know what was that all about. After I stopped eating them I noticed my skin changing for the better, and that was an even clearer message to keep them away.

I'm a bit dense in noticing food sensitivities, fortunately my skin is generally an indicator. When I do eliminate something because of skin changes, I'll often notice that other symptoms I hadn't been aware of until then, have also began to fade. With nuts it was the other way around though.

Edit: Added sentence
 
Laura said:
I think that the problem is that a LOT of people are totally ignorant about the word "carbohydrate" and they automatically assume that it refers to breads, pastas, sweets, or whatever. And that's another reason why they don't have success with low-carbing because they aren't applying that term to the vegetables they eat which most certainly are carbohydrates.

That could be, too. I guess not everyone here has read a carb counter book cover to cover. :) And I probably am projecting a bit. But I think all of us would like this to be simpler than it is, if not black & white.

I had no luck with the podcast transcripts; apparently the mushroom/onion comment was in one of the few episodes that has not been transcribed. I would like to know exactly what was said. I listen to these while commuting to/from work and I catch some things and miss others.
 

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