"Life Without Bread"

[mcb]

I have experienced exactly the same. I first stopped eating nuts because they simply woke up in me that type of compulsive eating that being on a carb diet used to trigger. I really didn't know what was that all about. After I stopped eating them I noticed my skin changing for the better, and that was an even clearer message to keep them away...

Compulsive eating indeed! Nuts seem to short-circuit something in me. It could be that something in the nuts (doesn't seem to much matter what kind) that targets reward centers, or maybe it is an indication of a mineral deficiency, and it might have to do with the fat content in combination with something else (carbs?), though those are just guesses. Salt makes it even worse.

This last time I couldn't believe it was happening and kept buying more, for a couple of weeks. I ended up gaining several pounds and I felt funny for a week or two after I quit eating them -- something was off balance. Omega-6's?

This is unusual behavior for me. The only other thing I remember that used to have that effect was pasta, and we know what causes that (opioids from wheat). Whatever the effect is, it's powerful.

 

[Ollie]

I have experienced exactly the same. I first stopped eating nuts because they simply woke up in me that type of compulsive eating that being on a carb diet used to trigger. I really didn't know what was that all about. After I stopped eating them I noticed my skin changing for the better, and that was an even clearer message to keep them away...

Compulsive eating indeed! Nuts seem to short-circuit something in me. It could be that something in the nuts (doesn't seem to much matter what kind) that targets reward centers, or maybe it is an indication of a mineral deficiency, and it might have to do with the fat content in combination with something else (carbs?), though those are just guesses. Salt makes it even worse.

... Whatever the effect is, it's powerful.

I can confirm this compulsion too. :) Although I've managed to avoid it at home, but when in a social situation - wow - it's a great wrench to stop eating too many, and as you say, especially when salted.

 

[Laura]

I think that the problem is that a LOT of people are totally ignorant about the word "carbohydrate" and they automatically assume that it refers to breads, pastas, sweets, or whatever. And that's another reason why they don't have success with low-carbing because they aren't applying that term to the vegetables they eat which most certainly are carbohydrates.

That could be, too. I guess not everyone here has read a carb counter book cover to cover. :) And I probably am projecting a bit. But I think all of us would like this to be simpler than it is, if not black & white.

For me, it's easy. I eat meat and seafood mainly. I have a few veggies two or three times a week (no more). The range of veggies is limited to those I know don't cause gas or bloating. The instant I feel gas or bloating, I know to not eat whatever it is again or only very rarely if I really like it. I eat fruit once a month (if that, usually once every two or three months), and I have a handful of nuts most days, but balance that with taking omega 3s. I have eggs two or three times a month (not as often as once a week, for sure) or a little home-made mayonnaise.

About once a month we have a special occasion and may make a fruit gelatin and have a small portion. Or a chocolate gelatin/mousse.

Maybe once in two months, I'll have some french fries.

Once every two weeks or so, I'll have some onions in something or mushrooms as a side dish.

With these odd bits of "treat" type things sprinkled here and there, the basic food is meat with a little vegetable, usually green beans salad (lettuce with beets and olives).

I drink black tea in the morning, and chamomile or tilluel or mint tea later in the day.

I eat bacon and pork patty sausage every morning with an occasional piece of fried ham and an egg (eggs bother me, so I'm real sparing of them).

If I'm really feeling peckish in the late afternoon, I may have some eggs and a piece of ham. But keep in mind I don't feel peckish that often because I limit my eggs severely. Many, many people are allergic or sensitive to them and they trigger autoimmune reactions.

I eat beef about three times a week. Fish/seafood about twice a week or more. Snacks are dried beef or canned oysters or clams.

Once in awhile we may make a meatloaf type dish with wild rice, onions, mushrooms, several meats.

We make our own catsup and mayonnaise which I use occasionally, but sparingly. I quit using butter/ghee entirely a couple months ago.

We've recently started making liver pate by frying the liver with onions and bacon in a pan, then running it through the processor, spreading it on dried beef jerky "crackers". Very nice for a light meal or snack.

We don't ever buy or bring into the house anything that is not within this range of foods. Ever. And when we have guests, they eat the same things we eat though we may make a little extra treats when other people are here that we wouldn't ordinarily have that often in the absence of guests.

We keep the freezers stocked and package the meat ourselves in individual baggies so that anyone can, at any time, take one out, cook it quickly, and have an instant meal without a big production.

This particular regimen suits me. It's uncomplicated, and I know I can have one or two things I like once in awhile.
And that's pretty much it.

 

[truth seeker]

I think that the problem is that a LOT of people are totally ignorant about the word "carbohydrate" and they automatically assume that it refers to breads, pastas, sweets, or whatever. And that's another reason why they don't have success with low-carbing because they aren't applying that term to the vegetables they eat which most certainly are carbohydrates.

Agree. Perhaps another part of the issue also involves a bit of wishful thinking - people essentially have a difficult time letting go of the idea that there is not much variation. We've been raised to be good consumers and at least as far as the US goes, many seem to feel they have the right to eat (consume) whatever they 'like' and as much of it as possible.

For me, food for the most part falls into one of three categories (although there may be some overlap at times) - protein, fats and carbs. I came to this harsh realization in a Whole Foods market one day when I was looking for some way to cheat. It was at that point that I noticed that the entire store was essentially a carb market with some areas sectioned off for protein and fats. That was quite a realization.

I can confirm this compulsion too. :) Although I've managed to avoid it at home, but when in a social situation - wow - it's a great wrench to stop eating too many, and as you say, especially when salted.

Reluctantly raising my hand on the nut issue as well. :D

I've also had difficulties in social situations and find that it can make for a good opportunity to practice some self Work. I've not always succeeded with it, but as I continue to see just how I'm physically and mentally effected when I do go off diet, it becomes less and less worth it to do so and strengthens my resolve.

 

[dugdeep]

I had no luck with the podcast transcripts; apparently the mushroom/onion comment was in one of the few episodes that has not been transcribed. I would like to know exactly what was said. I listen to these while commuting to/from work and I catch some things and miss others.

I imagine what they're talking about is a type o fiber called inulin, or fructo-oligosaccarides (not sure if I spelled that right) which is particularly high in onions and mushrooms (as well as beans, but we'll ignore that). What feeds the good bacteria is essentially the carbohydrate that we aren't able to digest and absorb (fiber) due to the fact that we don't produce the types of enzymes needed to break the beta-bonds of the carbon chain (cellulase enzyme, among others). The real benefit of fiber is that it feeds your good bacterial populations, not that it "pushes the food through" or "scrapes impacted feces from the walls of the digestive tract", as is the popular conception. By feeding these little guys, they in-turn make important nutrients for us, including vitamin K and butyric acid (a short chain fat that the colon has actually adapted itself to use for energy since it is in the colon in abundance in a diet that includes fiber).

Hope that helps.

 

[Mountain Crown]

I've come to know on a visceral level that eating for anything other than what optimally fuels the body is evident of our immature emotional center.

It's the infant that is dependent on the outside for gratification, security, and comfort.

 

[Hesper]

Watch out for hidden carbs in supplements. They can be as much as the carbs from food, if your food carbs are very low. Not that it will necessarily hurt you, but if you want to see how your body runs on low carbs, it is something to take into account.

You know, I've been wondering about the carbs hidden in ascorbic acid since it's so sweet and tasty to me. I did a quick search and found this from PubMed. _http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/998544

Acute effect of ascorbic acid infusion on carbohydrate tolerance.

Large doses (1 to 2g/3 hr) of ascorbic acid were administered intravenously to normal weight and obese, nondiabetic subjects. Glucose tolerance and fasting plasma glucose levels were unaffected, despite a 3- to 8-fold rise in plasma concentrations of the vitamin. Infusion of ascorbic acid did not alter fasting serum insulin levels in normal subjects, but was associated with lower concentrations of hormone during an intravenous glucose tolerance test. Plasma glucose, serum insulin, growth hormone, and glucagon levels in obese subjects remained unchanged during the ascorbic acid infusion.

Are you sure your talking about ascorbic acid, Hesper? Because ascorbic acid, as all acids, is sour. You may mean a non-acidic vitamin C, i.e. a mineral ascorbate (e.g. sodium ascorbate, calcium ascorbate, zinc ascorbate, potassium ascorbate, etc). Or you may be taking vitamin C complex with added sugars/sweeteners, I'm not sure?

Also, it's quite likely that the PubMed mention of intravenous ascorbic acid infusion is not correct, which is quite common (there's been cases where the formula is written using sodium ascorbate solution but then repeatedly referred to it as ascorbic acid). The standard IV vitamin C is sodium ascorbate 50% solution which has a pH of 7.4 -- exactly the same as blood. However, the doctors that give IV-C would NOT consider 1 to 2 grams/3 hours "large doses," but begin at 25 grams and go up as needed. I don't know if they actually did administer the 1 to 2 grams as ascorbic acid, but even that would put huge stress on the patient, as the body would immediately have to bring the blood pH back to the range of 7.35 to 7.45 keeping the blood from becoming too acidic. The body will generally do whatever is necessary to keep the blood pH in that narrow range, including taking minerals from bones and other tissues and dumping them in the blood as a buffer if it's to acidic. I'd think that if any really large doses of IV-C were administered as ascorbic acid, like 25, 50 or more grams, it would do major harm, perhaps even killing the person. FWIW.

Sorry, when I said "sweet" I meant tasty. Yes I guess it's sour but I've always enjoyed sour. And the Vitamin C I'm taking is Vitamin C Crystals, ascorbic acid. Thanks for the info, I definitely won't be chugging the stuff then.

 

[kenlee]

My diet at the moment is some fatty meat mostly bacon strips, pork chops and or spare ribs in the morning. Sometimes sardines in the evening and not much more then that since, especially in the summer, the only way I'll lose weight is by eating only small portions of everything. If I eat too much then my weight stays the same. Each day I go to the gym and do moderate exercise with very light weights with a lotta repetitions, a little running and stretching but I'm easing into it. The exercise doesn't really make that much of a difference in the weight loss but it feels really good to have my overall muscle tone coming back and there's now a grace in my step, along with being centered and balanced when walking around. But the biggie is the weight loss since every pound lost is that much more energy that I noticeably feel throughout the day especially when getting up early in the morning to go to work.

For a while I was eating just the fatty meat but, at this moment my body feels best and my energy level is highest when I also eat, occasionally (depending when I feel like it) a very little bit of vegetables such as avocado and or green beans. I can tolerate eggs but only a small amount, otherwise my stomach will be growling and bothering me all day. A small amount is OK though. I've also gone back to taking a real good high quality multi vitamin/mineral supplement along with some high quality bee pollen granules along with added supplements such as Potassium, Magnesium, Vitamins D3 and K, NAC and the Omega 3 supplements. It's all a little expensive but it's worth every penny.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Sorry, when I said "sweet" I meant tasty. Yes I guess it's sour but I've always enjoyed sour. And the Vitamin C I'm taking is Vitamin C Crystals, ascorbic acid. Thanks for the info, I definitely won't be chugging the stuff then.

Sorry to cause confusion (and sorry I misunderstood what you meant by sweet). There's no danger in taking large doses of Vitamin C orally as ascorbic acid (though it's not the best form because only about 15% maximum of it is actually utilized by the body as vitamin C). I've taken up to 35,000 to 40,000 mg per day orally when sick. I was talking strictly about IV infusion where the pH is crucial because it's being put straight into the blood. Again sorry for the confusion.

 

[Foxx]

I imagine what they're talking about is a type o fiber called inulin, or fructo-oligosaccarides (not sure if I spelled that right) which is particularly high in onions and mushrooms (as well as beans, but we'll ignore that). What feeds the good bacteria is essentially the carbohydrate that we aren't able to digest and absorb (fiber) due to the fact that we don't produce the types of enzymes needed to break the beta-bonds of the carbon chain (cellulase enzyme, among others). The real benefit of fiber is that it feeds your good bacterial populations, not that it "pushes the food through" or "scrapes impacted feces from the walls of the digestive tract", as is the popular conception. By feeding these little guys, they in-turn make important nutrients for us, including vitamin K and butyric acid (a short chain fat that the colon has actually adapted itself to use for energy since it is in the colon in abundance in a diet that includes fiber).

Hope that helps.

This is really interesting, dugdeep, and I'd like to read more. Do you remember where you read this?

 

[ScarletBegonias]

I have also noticed this with my nut intake, but did not observe it until recently. I had two servings of almonds in the morning and by evening was having carb cravings that I hadn't experienced for quite a while. After reading others' comments I think I must have been going nuts for carbs because of the nuts! :P Last week I think I had too many vegetables from eating out with friends and got thrown out of ketosis for the first time since I transitioned.

Right now my diet is virtually the same food every day, but for some reason I like to eat the same things over and over. I eat bacon, homemade pemmican, eggs, broccoli and a homemade organic and gluten-free buckwheat/flax seed waffle for dinner. My daily carb intake totals under about 30 carbs and when I reach about 40 carbs is about when I seem to get knocked out of ketosis, I think.

So, I just found some cocoa tea (Mayan Cocoa Spice by Yogi Tea) and want to share that with the cocoa drinkers of this thread. I was never able to find the carb-free cocoa powder that Gandalf mentioned earlier in the thread so I have been still having my regular 2 carbs worth of cocoa in the mornings. Finding this tea knocks off 2 carbs for me a day and that is great!

 

[mcb]

I've come to know on a visceral level that eating for anything other than what optimally fuels the body is evident of our immature emotional center.

It's the infant that is dependent on the outside for gratification, security, and comfort.

That certainly seems to fit with what I have been experiencing. The "nut binge" episode may have shed a little more light on it for me, but the biggest problem for me over the years has been that work-related stress stimulates my appetite. I can believe that there is an underlying cause related to the emotional center.

It seems clear to me now that part of the Work is going to be eliminating inflammation, strange as that might sound. There can a vicious circle -- gut inflammation leads to brain inflammation causes further gut inflammation. When your brain is inflamed, all sorts of things may be out of whack, and trying to deal with the higher-level issues, emotional center or otherwise, without addressing the inflammation may be futile. This won't necessarily apply to everyone here, but it can be terribly important where it does apply.

I have strong symptoms of such a vicious cycle, and nothing I have done so far has broken it. So I keep trying new things. A ketogenic diet seems to be indicated (I prefer not to go into details in the public forum), but it hasn't worked very well so far (although it HAS worked in certain important aspects), and the next thing to explore may be higher-carb ketogenic diets (~50 grams/day), as well as considering a moderate-carb, non-ketogenic paleo diet if that doesn't work out. I am also starting to find practitioners and MDs with which I might be able to work cooperatively, though not within my HMO so far (I am also considering once again changing my health insurance plan).

Right now this IS my esoteric work, until my brain works better. The part of my brain that I use for my professional work (database/web development) works quite well, and has improved on the ketogenic diet, but my esoteric department is very sluggish. Considering that I have been pursuing esoteric-related work most of my life, and database/web work for only the last 14 years, that is odd. I could conclude that I am just not cut out for esoteric work, but it makes more sense to say that pursuing better health is where my lessons are to be found.

 

[bngenoh]

Well, regarding the nut thing,

I was reading on the blood type diet and under type B, which is my blood type it has this, "Most nuts and seeds are not advisable for Type Bs. They contain lectins that interfere with Type B insulin production," but then we have this from pubmed:

The beneficial effects of nut consumption on cardiovascular disease (CVD) have been widely documented. These protective effects are mainly attributed to the role of nuts in the metabolism of lipids and lipoproteins. As chronic inflammation is a key early stage in the atherosclerotic process that predicts future CVD events and is closely related to the pathogenesis of insulin resistance, many recent studies have focused on the potential effect of nut consumption on inflammation and insulin resistance. Through different mechanisms, some components of nuts such as magnesium, fiber, alpha-linolenic acid, L-arginine, antioxidants and MUFA may protect against inflammation and insulin resistance. This review evaluates the epidemiologic and experimental evidence in humans demonstrating an association between nut consumption and these two emergent cardio-protective mechanisms.

And this under insulin:

Insulin is a hormone, produced by the pancreas, which is central to regulating carbohydrate and fat metabolism in the body. Insulin causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen inside these tissues.

Insulin stops the use of fat as an energy source by inhibiting the release of glucagon.

Contradiction? It's probably due to the fact that we each have a unique biochemical environment, osit.

 

[mcb]

...I imagine what they're talking about is a type o fiber called inulin, or fructo-oligosaccarides...

I think that might be it. Sooner or later I will find the reference, or the topic will come up again in another podcast or blog. Thanks!

 

[mcb]

Here is some interesting information about magnesium (and nuts too!) that relates to this discussion. From _http://chriskresser.com/the-healthy-skeptic-podcast-episode-12 (scroll down to the "Magnesium & potassium for constipation" question; it's not too far down). Note the highlight. I have been taking magnesium glycinate for much of the last year, which The Magnesium Miracle says has less tendency to cause loose stools (my copy has gone missing--can't confirm), and I have found that it works well at night to help me sleep without having any laxative effect at all.

The question right after that one, "Hair thinning and decreased libido in men" is interesting too. If you are doing VLC (very low carb) and have rapid hair thinning, please read! (possible negative impact of VLC on thyroid function)

Magnesium & potassium for constipation

DANNY RODDY: This next question, a completely different question, this is from Kara De Leon, my question is regarding magnesium and potassium for those who suffer with constipation. How much of both of these supplements should one take to help the situation? I already eat paleo and I’m currently pulling nightshades and eggs out of my diet. What do you think Chris?

CHRIS KRESSER: It depends? No it’s a good question and of course the answer is not the same for everybody, it depends. I test people’s magnesium levels and even though that’s not a super accurate test, if someone comes back below 2.0, in 99% of cases they’re gonna really benefit from magnesium supplementation.

DANNY RODDY: Do you just do serum magnesium?

CHRIS KRESSER: I do serum, red blood cell magnesium is more accurate, and there’s one lab in the country that does intra-cellular magnesium and claims that that’s more accurate than red blood cell magnesium. Those tests are pretty expensive, they’re more expensive, and I’ve just found that magnesium is one of the nutrients that I think many people should be supplementing with because it’s hard to find in the diet, even a healthy diet. Nuts are the biggest source, and dark chocolate I think is a pretty good source but nuts and chocolate have phytates and in the case of nuts a significant amounts of omega 6. So I don’t necessarily like to see people gobble down a huge amount of nuts to get their magnesium and I definitely wouldn’t want to see someone gobbling huge huge amounts of chocolate for that reason either. Although they might enjoy that. So typically if somebody is magnesium deficient I’ll put them on 600-800 mg of magnesium glycinate. The form is important. Most supplements have magnesium citrate or magnesium oxide and those are not really well absorbed. They have some effect for constipation but they tend to bring a lot of water into the bowel and cause loose stools or what I sometimes call contsorrhea, which I’m sure you can figure out for yourself what that is. The chelated forms of magnesium, magnesium glycinate and malate tend to be much better absorbed and I have a lot more success with them so I would say 600-800 mg of magnesium glycinate. Potassium I don’t use as much for constipation, there is a product called ageless Hydro-C, which I sometimes give to my patients. It’s got a blend of a highly absorbable form of vitamin C, calcium, magnesium, and potassium. The amount of potassium is pretty small, it’s 40 mg which is like 1% of the RDA, and then the vitamin C can also have an effect on bowel regularity so you can take a gram or 2 grams or up to 3 grams of vitamin C per day, really up to bowel tolerance but if you take too much vitamin C that will also create often diarrhea or loose stools so you gotta be careful there.

DANNY RODDY: Do you think the constipation is a result of a magnesium deficiency or is this another thing that you kind of have to do some investigative work on finding the root cause of the constipation?

CHRIS KRESSER: Ding ding ding…Yeah. Well certainly a magnesium deficiency can cause constipation, and magnesium can help even if there’s another cause. But, you’re right, you definitely have to look and see what the underlying cause is and in my experience, constipation is 99% of the time due to gut dysbiosis. Because something like 70-80% of the dry weight of stool is dead bacteria, and so if you’re not producing a lot of good healthy gut flora you’re gonna have problems forming bulky stool and you’re gonna have problems with intestinal motility. So the long term solution to constipation is almost always addressing the gut flora, but magnesium can be really helpful in the short term, especially if there’s a deficiency.