"Life Without Bread"

I have try to follow the VLC approach for several weeks. My only sources of carbs were salad, eggs and liver and cocoa powder (with my supplement).

I have been tired all the time and I regularly broke the rule eating nuts or almonds in big quantities in the evening.

When I don't take the nuts I replace them by eggs and/or saucisson.

I have recently read the transcript of Paul Jaminet for the Paleo Summit.

Sean: But if the ability to survive a fast means you must flourish on a 10% carb, 25%
protein diet, then why do you think that a 20%-30% carb, 15% protein diet is optimal?
Paul: Well, thatʼs basically where you draw the line between nutrients being
transformed and nutrients being consumed. On your fasting diet, youʼre pulling out 25%
protein from tissue. But then that protein is going to the liver and getting converted to
carbs. And I think itʼs better when youʼre eating food to eat the carbs and let your body
utilize those directly than to eat high protein and have your liver convert the protein to
carbs like it does during a fast because the protein to carb conversion is stressful for the
liver. It really occupies it and consumes a lot of its oxygen supply. When protein is
converted to carbs, it releases nitrogen, which becomes ammonia, which is a toxin.
And, thereʼs really no great value to going through this process. In fasting, you have to
do it. But in dieting, you donʼt. So I would recommend meeting your carb needs with
carbs and your protein needs with protein, rather than trying to meet both with protein.

Now, I will try to up the carbs (probably a half sweet potatoe at noon) and lessen the protein.

edit : add cocoa powder
 
I’ve been on a VLC (less than 10g/day – seasonal green vegetables to soak up the breakfast fat) and high fat diet for over a year now, the improvement - for me, especially after starting cold thermogensis in the last couple of months – is nothing short of astonishing, even astounding. :) I now get up with the birds singing in the morning, can work through until 10.00 at night with little or no fatigue – piling a lot into each day, and with a real joy in working on the projects I’ve set up for myself. :) Paraphrasing anart (some time in the past) ‘it’s amazing what you can fit into a day’. :)

The only downsides I can see are: stools – still not the size suggested in Fiber Menace, and that’s probably down to my age and eating too many fibrous things through life, and I’m still taking supplements for healing a leaky gut; and liver spots which seem huge on the sides of my body – so, I’ve restarted a liver cleanse to cope with the fat and protein, on top of HCL acid and Mega Enzymes.

One thing I have noticed is the ease of moving in and out of ketosis (by the tell-tale signs of urine smell, mild fungal infection in a couple of places, and slight signs of mucus in the nose and throat) merely by, say, overeating (from a 26g protein content of ‘meat’ per meal (Gedgaudas) - to keep burning fat, before going into burning carbs) - such as a 'large' chop a couple of days running, or indulging in a bowl of coconut milk custard, and, or overeating portions of chocolate with my meal. For my weight and height the suggested protein intake is between 53g and 76g per day, so I aim for 63g, tapering down from breakfast (25g) through the day. I’m still eating three meals a day, and that's to do with taking supplements with meals. I measure by eye my ‘meat’ intake (approx 100g) to arrive at these levels. Just remembered, another effect is a lack of stamina – both going out and back into ketosis.

As has been said, we are all unique in terms of what suits us individually.


Edit: for clarity (Gedgaudas)
 
Goemon_ said:
Sean: But if the ability to survive a fast means you must flourish on a 10% carb, 25%
protein diet, then why do you think that a 20%-30% carb, 15% protein diet is optimal?
Paul: Well, thatʼs basically where you draw the line between nutrients being
transformed and nutrients being consumed. On your fasting diet, youʼre pulling out 25%
protein from tissue. But then that protein is going to the liver and getting converted to
carbs. And I think itʼs better when youʼre eating food to eat the carbs and let your body
utilize those directly than to eat high protein and have your liver convert the protein to
carbs
like it does during a fast because the protein to carb conversion is stressful for the
liver. It really occupies it and consumes a lot of its oxygen supply. When protein is
converted to carbs, it releases nitrogen, which becomes ammonia, which is a toxin.
And, thereʼs really no great value to going through this process. In fasting, you have to
do it. But in dieting, you donʼt. So I would recommend meeting your carb needs with
carbs and your protein needs with protein, rather than trying to meet both with protein.

I think that process happens when you're having too much protein. When one follows a lowcarb/highfat diet having moderate amounts of protein, glucose can be made in other ways as well:

See (with images and graphs included): _http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2012/01/we-really-can-make-glucose-from-fatty.html

We Really Can Make Glucose From Fatty Acids After All! O Textbook, How Thy Biochemistry Hast Deceived Me!

Biochemistry textbooks generally tell us that we can't turn fatty acids into glucose. For example, on page 634 of the 2006 and 2008 editions of Biochemistry by Berg, Tymoczko, and Stryer, we find the following:

Animals Cannot Convert Fatty Acids to Glucose

It is important to note that animals are unable to effect the net synthesis of glucose from fatty acids. Specficially, acetyl CoA cannot be converted into pyruvate or oxaloacetate in animals.

In fact this is so important that it should be written in italics and have its own bold heading! But it's not quite right. Making glucose from fatty acids is low-paying work. It's not the type of alchemy that would allow us to build imperial palaces out of sugar cubes or offer hourly sweet sacrifices upon the altar of the glorious god of glucose (God forbid!). But it can be done, and it'll help pay the bills when times are tight.

All Aboard the Acetyl CoA!

When we're running primarily on fatty acids, our livers break the bulk of these fatty acids down into two-carbon units called acetate. When acetate hangs out all by its lonesome like it does in a bottle of vinegar, it's called acetic acid and it gives vinegar its characteristic smell. Our livers aren't bottles of vinegar, however, and they do things a bit differently. They have a little shuttle called coenzyme A, or "CoA" for short, that carries acetate wherever it needs to go. When the acetate passenger is loaded onto the CoA shuttle, we refer to the whole shebang as acetyl CoA.

As acetyl CoA moves its caboose along the biochemical railway, it eventually reaches a crossroads where it has to decide whether to enter the Land of Ketogenesis or traverse the TCA cycle. The Land of Ketogenesis is a quite magical place to which we'll return in a few moments, but navigating the TCA cycle can be a nightmare. Traveling down this route is particularly dreadful for three reasons. First, every time the Biochemical Traffic Committee holds session it has the the cycle renamed and has the signage repainted. As a consequence, everyone is always calling it something different. Some call it the tricarboxylic acid cycle. Others call it the citric acid cycle and yet others call it the Krebs cycle. Second, the TCA cycle is a treacherous roundabout. It puts the typical town traffic circle to shame with its eight exits, all replete with incoming and outgoing traffic. Third, even our cheerful little CoA That Could has to feel a tinge of guilt gliding along a railway that's been used to mercilessly torture generations of memorization-impaired biochemistry students in universities everywhere.

If acetyl CoA navigates the TCA cycle flawlessly, completing a full turn of the circle without either getting into a traffic accident or wandering off along one of its myriad exits, it arrives at that sacred space wherein our cells make new glucose. Presuming a bit of poetic license, let's call this space the Candy Factory.

Balancing the Carbon Accounts in the TCA Cycle


But now we come to the problem that biochemistry textbooks grapple with so simplistically, and as we'll see, so wrongly: it is mathematically impossible for acetyl CoA to yield a net synthesis of glucose when it arrives at the Candy Factory by this route. In other words, it is impossible by this means for acetate to contribute to the production of more glucose than is used up just to keep the TCA cycle running. We can see this illustrated in the following flow chart, taken from a 1957 review that discussed this matter in detail (1):

This diagram is greatly simplified so that we can see just the essential points. On the left, we see the point where glucose enters or exits the cycle. When more glucose exits the cycle than enters it — that is, when more glucose is produced than consumed — we are in a state of gluconeogenesis and our Candy Factory is fully operational. On the top, we see the point where acetyl CoA enters the cycle. Acetate is a two-carbon molecule, so it naturally brings only two carbons to the table. On the bottom, we see that both of these carbons leave the cycle as carbon dioxide before the CoA train even reaches the Candy Factory station. Two minus two is zero, so there are no carbons left for making glucose.

The only way to make sure acetate carbons get stuffed into any of the delectable delights produced in the Candy Factory is for other molecules to enter the TCA cycle at any of the many entry points not shown in the above diagram and thereby provide those two carbons that need to leave the cycle as carbon dioxide during each turn. Indeed, careful experiments using radioactive tracers had already definitively shown that carbons could flow from fatty acids to glucose in this manner by the time that review had been published in 1957.

But that's not a net synthesis of glucose. For every two carbons that fatty acids could provide for glucose synthesis in that scenario, two would have to be taken either from glucose itself, or from some other molecule that could just as easily have served as a precursor to glucose, just to keep the TCA cycle going. Once again, two minus two is zero, and fatty acids cannot contribute to the net synthesis of new glucose in this manner.

Magical Things Happen In The Land of Ketogenesis

By the time the 1980s rolled around, however, it had become clear that fatty acid metabolism is more complex than this and that there are indeed ways that fatty acids can contribute to the net synthesis of new glucose.

When large quantities of fatty acids flood the liver during fasting, caloric restriction, diabetes, or the consumption of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat, ketogenic diet, our livers produce so much acetate that the TCA cycle suffers heavy traffic. Any acetyl CoA with the foresight to listen to the evening traffic report would quickly decide to head straight for the Land of Ketogenesis, where the railways are open and the paths are free. This is where our livers turn acetate into ketones, sending the ketones out into the bloodstream so our other tissues can use them for energy.

One of the ketones we make is acetone. Acetone makes an excellent paint thinner, and is responsible for the "ketone breath" that some people get on low-carbohydrate diets. It also happens to be a great raw material for making glucose.

In 1979, a group of researchers from Philadelphia studied acetone metabolism in fasting humans (2). These authors estimated that during a three-day fast acetone may constitute over a third of the ketones we produce, and that 50-70 percent of it undergoes further metabolism. They used radioactive tracers to show that acetone could be converted to glucose in these subjects, and estimated that if in fact acetone contributes to the net synthesis of new glucose, it could account for just over ten percent of such glucose newly made.

In the mid-1980s, researchers showed that rats can convert acetone to glucose through two different intermediates, methylglyoxal and 1,2-propanediol (3). These pathways were summarized graphically in a later review (4):

The pathways shown above represent several alternative methods of converting acetone to pyruvate, which can then be converted to glucose.* Since acetone is formed from acetyl CoA, this directly contradicts the claims of even the most recent biochemistry textbooks, which plainly state as a matter of fact that "acetyl CoA cannot be converted into pyruvate or oxaloacetate in animals." We would expect each of these pathways leading to pyruvate to result in the net synthesis of new glucose.

In 1986, researchers administered radioactively labeled acetone to rats and examined the radioactive carbon "fingerprint" on the glucose molecules formed from it to provide additional evidence that acetone followed pathways leading to pyruvate that would indeed lead to a net synthesis of new glucose (5). That same year, the Philadelphia group used a similar approach to show that acetone was following similar pathways in humans with diabetic ketoacidosis (6). They estimated that in such patients at least ten percent of newly synthesized glucose may come from acetone.

Blood levels of acetone also rise appreciably in adults on the Atkins diet (7) and in epileptic children following a ketogenic diet (8), suggesting that it may be a normal state of affairs for humans to convert fatty acids to glucose when consuming a diet low in carbohydrate and high in fat.

For comparison, I compiled the blood levels of acetone reached in humans under various conditions in the following table:$

In July of 2011, a German research group revisited the question of converting fatty acids to carbohydrate by publishing a computational analysis of the most up-to-date information about human biochemistry available (9). These authors identified 22 pathways by which acetone could be converted to pyruvate that they considered likely to be important, and concluded that these pathways would be less cost-efficient than making glucose from amino acids or glycerol, but are nevertheless biochemically feasible and likely serve as supplementary modes of glucose production.

Lo and behold, we have three decades of evidence suggesting that the Land of Ketogenesis is graced with its own Candy Factory. Sure, the desserts conjured therein may be sold at higher prices than those made in the Candy Factory just off exit eight of the TCA cycle, but when the traffic is heavy there, what else are we to do? Such is the law of supply and demand.

Insulin Regulates Gluconeogenesis From Fatty Acids


If we really do make glucose from fatty acids when times are tight as all of this evidence so strongly suggests, there should be a way for our bodies to regulate this process so that it only kicks in when we are in need of glucose. Indeed, such a mechanism exists. Let's take a look at a figure from the recent computational analysis (9) and focus in on the part I outlined in blue:

This part of the picture represents a complicated network of reactions that provide a multitude of ways to achieve the critical event needed to convert fatty acids to glucose: the conversion of acetone to pyruvate (you know, that conversion that the biochemistry textbooks categorically state can never happen). Pyruvate is half of a glucose molecule, so once acetone has made it that far, the rest is downhill. Let's zero in on this part of the picture and pay special attention to the part I circled in red:

We can see that despite the many different paths down which acetone may travel to ultimately wind up at pyruvate, they all start with the conversion of acetone to acetol, a conversion facilitated by an enzyme called cytochrome P450 2E1, or CYP2E1 for short. Insulin suppresses the production of this enzyme, while acetone prevents its degradation (10). Thus, when insulin levels fall and ketone levels rise, as occurs when our carbohydrate intake is low, our cells increase their supply of CYP2E1 and thereby activate the conversion of fatty acids to glucose. We've found our way to the expensive Candy Factory in the magical Land of Ketogenesis.

The authors of the computational analysis (9) calculated that the most cost-efficient way of converting fatty acids to glucose is by converting acetol to methylglyoxal, facilitated again by CYP2E1, and then converting methylglyoxal directly to pyruvate, facilitated by an enzyme called aldehyde dehydrogenase. I've outlined this pathway in red here:

As Peter Dobromylskyj over at Hyperlipid has pointed out before, methylglyoxal inhibits the breakdown of glucose. In a future post, I will cover methylgyloxal's inhibition of glucose consumption in greater detail, but for now it is worth noting that when this pathway is activated, we not only convert fatty acids to glucose, but methylglyoxal concentrations rise and inhibit the breakdown of glucose. Thus, when glucose runs low and we begin subsisting primarily on fatty acids for fuel, we have a coordinated effort to both spare glucose and to make more of it. When the glucose recession hits, our cells do what any other budget-conscious cells would do and spend less.

O Textbook, Why Hast Thou Deceived Me?

In the 1980s, at least two reviews were published outlining the evidence for the conversion of fatty acids to glucose (4, 11). One of them emphasized that biochemistry students were taught that such pathways do not exist (11):

Students are often asked to describe a pathway by which a long-chain fatty acid is converted into glucose in mammalian liver. This type of question is normally a trick one which, for most biochemists, would have a simple reply: such a pathway does not exist. Nevertheless, recent studies point towards a role for acetone in the conversion of fat to carbohydrate.

It further emphasized that most textbooks wrongly classify acetone as a useless chemical that can't be metabolized at all (11):

Most biochemistry textbooks state that acetone is a non-metabolizable byproduct of lipid metabolism, which accumulates when there are insufficient glycolytic intermediates to effect the complete oxidation of the acetyl CoA generated in the degradation of fatty acids. However, studies with 14C-labeled acetone in lactating cows, rats, guinea pigs, and humans have shown that acetone is not just excreted, but that it can be metabolized further.

The other review (4) noted that the first evidence for the conversion of acetone to glucose had been generated as far back as 1951.

Another quarter century has gone by, and the textbooks haven't changed their tune one toot. At the beginning of this post, I quoted Biochemistry by Berg, Tymoczko, and Stryer, which plainly states in a boldfaced section header that "Animals Cannot Convert Fatty Acids to Glucose." Of acetone, all this book tells us is that its odor can be detected in the breath. Another biochemistry textbook I keep on hand, the 2005 edition of Lippincott's Illustrated Reviews: Biochemistry, tells us that acetone is a "non-metabolizable side product" of ketone production.

What is most striking is that these textbooks do not even alert us to any controversy about this topic, let alone to the strong evidence supporting the opposing view. This emphasizes the need to use what we learn from textbooks and academic classes as a starting point for further exploration of the primary literature. If we don't have time for that, as is usually the case, we need to seek out the best arguments from opposing viewpoints and consider them with an open mind. If we do not have even the time for that, I think it would be wise not to cling too tightly to any of our cherished beliefs. If this applies to something as mundane as whether acetone can be converted to glucose, it must hold true all the more for the myriad topics that have emotion, politics, money, or ideology lurking within them.

None of this is to say that we should blame the authors of these textbooks. Rather, we should admire them for undertaking such a gargantuan task, a task that no human or small group of humans could execute flawlessly. What is important is the recognition that any such work, no matter how authoritative, is a human work and thus necessarily subject to error.

The Good News

On the bright side, this finding is a testament to the great versatility of life. Biochemistry is enormously complex, and while activating any particular set of pathways might not necessarily be optimal, the plethora of possibilities contributes to the resiliency we possess as living beings.

And three cheers for the Little CoA That Could!

Pretty funny author!
Regarding: "Another quarter century has gone by, and the textbooks haven't changed their tune one toot." I wouldn't be surprised if that was done on purpose...

Added: It might be so that some people might not be able to activate (some of) these pathways due to, perhaps, possible damage, and may therefore need more carbs, I don't know, just a thought. I'm gonna do some experimenting myself as well, with adding a bit more fat (as in butter) and lowering my protein intake more, because I'm observing that I'm getting more sensitive (as in getting a headache) to the amount of protein that I'm eating now.
 
Megan said:
Sometimes less clarity is better. Whether you realize it or not, you sound pretty clear about what you think are the underlying issues, even though you haven't done the testing. Obviously you can tell whether or not you have insomnia, but are you really full of candida? Do you know all of the precautions and contraindications for supplementing vitamin D?

I've had the candida "itch" for decades, and I started upping the Vit. D after reading the e-book Laura posted, knowing my levels were low from recent bloodwork. The saliva testing I'd like is for cortisol (the insomnia, I've already done sleep studies at a lab), thyroid (I'm always freezing, losing hair, brittle nails, cold hands and feet, low body temperature), and hormone levels (ten years after an early menipause, I'm still suffering from symptoms that are getting worse instead of better). Conventional doctors don't even recognize saliva testing, adrenal fatigue (I was told that from iridology, plus the symptoms) or candida, which is why I haven't done any testing.

And yes, giving up gluten, dairy, and sugar do make a difference, and will make more of a difference as time goes on with the healing process, I'm sure.
 
Goemon_ said:
I have try to follow the VLC approach for several weeks. My only sources of carbs were salad, eggs and liver and cocoa powder (with my supplement).

I have been tired all the time and I regularly broke the rule eating nuts or almonds in big quantities in the evening.

When I don't take the nuts I replace them by eggs and/or saucisson.

I have recently read the transcript of Paul Jaminet for the Paleo Summit.

Sean: But if the ability to survive a fast means you must flourish on a 10% carb, 25%
protein diet, then why do you think that a 20%-30% carb, 15% protein diet is optimal?
Paul: Well, thatʼs basically where you draw the line between nutrients being
transformed and nutrients being consumed. On your fasting diet, youʼre pulling out 25%
protein from tissue. But then that protein is going to the liver and getting converted to
carbs. And I think itʼs better when youʼre eating food to eat the carbs and let your body
utilize those directly than to eat high protein and have your liver convert the protein to
carbs like it does during a fast because the protein to carb conversion is stressful for the
liver. It really occupies it and consumes a lot of its oxygen supply. When protein is
converted to carbs, it releases nitrogen, which becomes ammonia, which is a toxin.
And, thereʼs really no great value to going through this process. In fasting, you have to
do it. But in dieting, you donʼt. So I would recommend meeting your carb needs with
carbs and your protein needs with protein, rather than trying to meet both with protein.

Now, I will try to up the carbs (probably a half sweet potatoe at noon) and lessen the protein.

edit : add cocoa powder

I agree with Oxajil that perhaps it isn't so important to up your carbs, since you've been getting a lot already. I would cut down on the nuts, especially since you say you're devouring too many of them, and the liver. I've been eating liver a lot lately too and it's messed with my ketosis since it's so high in protein. It's around 32 grams of protein for one 6 ounce portion, and it's too easy for me to eat that much in a meal. Maybe just cutting back on the nuts, increasing the fat (butter in tea is my favorite way to go now), and being patient as ketosis sets in is the way to go? Being tired all the time is definitely a clue that your body may be struggling to get all the way into ketosis OSIT.
 
Edit: added relevant parts from sessions

Laura said:
dugdeep said:
Just curious, because this seems to be a slight change in what's been said up to now - are we establishing that being in ketosis may not be the best for everyone? I might be wrong, but I can't see someone being over 100g of carbs per day and still being a fat burner. A significant portion of the paleo community at large believe that fat burning is not the best for everyone all the time and that some do much better on a higher starch diet (mostly in the form of sweet potatoes and other root veggies; ie. "safe starches"). Are we echoing that position now? Or am I wrong and it is possible for some people to stay within ketosis at over 100g of carbs?

I'm noticing that there is a small segment of people who are so damaged either systemically or due to DNA damage, or DNA expression influenced by parental diets, that they simply don't seem to have the inputs and outputs to make the switch. And some of them are just needing longer to repair and require the energy from the carb burning to do it before they can even get the fat burning going.

At least that seems to be what we are seeing.

I got the feeling yesterday when reading your posts about health-conditions and reading another one of your posts now (and remembering that health-conditions were and are a constant determining factor for you and your family) about additional available ways of repairing DNA damage is being overlooked and ignored. Time and resources and being busy with other things constrain, understandable. Would be worthwhile to ask the C's about it, however.

Specifically:
1. Building a pool with added columns and the ancient structure that was mentioned in one of the old sessions. Geometrically shaped stone arches, shapes and metal pool parts as per instructions (asking for a blueprint) for enhanced healing effects.
Session: 000817
..[..]we still have to build this pool with the columns,
Indeed you do!

Session: 010924
Q: (L) Oh honey you did that. (A) I didn't! It's their joking. They are having fun. But in a sense. Yes, because you know there is always this mixing of what is cause and what is effect. So in this case we know there was going to be rain. (L) We did not. I didn't expect there to be rain, that's why I wanted to make rain. There was no sign of rain. (A) We in another density, we knew it and we caused it. (L) Well let me ask, does this copper spiral that we have under the pool with the little hangy-out spiral does it produce any affect at all of any interest? (A) [Choking with laughter.]
A: Yes.
Q: (L) You're playing with me. Can you tell me what this effect is?
A: Hydro-energic transposition
Q: (L) Transposition to what?
A: Physical rehabilitation.
Q: (L) You mean it just collects energy in the water and transfers it to the body if you're in the water?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And it doesn't shoot any energy up in the sky and make rain or storms or any kind of thing like that?
A: No.
Q: (A) [Laughing] So we should swim everyday, each day, even if it rains! (L) Do orgone accumulators make rain?
A: No.
Q: (L) Do orgone accumulators accumulate orgone? [Laughing.]
A: Yes.
Q: (L) What is orgone?
A: Life-force.
Q: (L) What is life-force? (A) What is the closest expression in physical terms?
A: EM substrate.
Q: (A) What is substrate?
A: Base.
Q: (L) How does EM substrate or base... (A) Vacuum point? Vacuum.
A: Close.
Q: (A) Something related to what people call zero point energy?
A: Close.
Q: (A) Something related to 1969?
A: Pronto!

Session 941109
Q: (L) If I had a large place in my yard and I arranged plants and a walkway in a coil and then I walked that spiral, would it give me power?
A: Yes. Do it. If you do it you will actually see us when 3 levels are right. Move the pool.
Q: (L) Move my pool!
A: Which is more important? We did not say get rid of it.
Q: (L) What about the area next to the pool?
A: Up to you.
Q: (L) Do you know how hard it was to put that pool in?
A: Yes.

Pool-technology could be replicated after successful debut of the prototype.

Session 960525
Q: (L) Fluted?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Does 'fluted' have anything to do with 'grooving?'
A: Columns.
Q: (L) What columns are we talking about?
A: Ionic.
Q: (L) Why are we talking about Ionic fluted columns?
A: Because they are a link to previous direct contact between humans and density 4 STO!
Q: (L) Okay, Ionic columns fluted and grooved...
A: Plastic hoses, fluted and grooved.
Q: (L) Well, you are getting more and more obscure. How do we establish this direct link between us and 4th density STO through the concept of fluting, and grooving, and columns?
A: Magnetic telemetry profile.
Q: (L) Are you suggesting that the hose with the water rushing through it can transmit something from 4th density STO to us?
A: Tranceive.
Q: (L) The original Ionic column structure was a hollow tube?
A: Not the point.
Q: (L) It is the fluting, grooving and spiraling that are important?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Okay, once you mentioned that I ought to move the pool and install a maze, or spiral. Well, I am hoping to get some money from the insurance company soon, and I was thinking about putting in an in-ground pool as part of my improvements. Couldn't I have the spiral inlaid in the bottom of the pool in tile?
A: Good. Suggest that you install a triple Ionic column with top beam and base, as the Romans and Greeks did, near the deep end. [The next part of the discussion involves drawing the plan of said structure and the design of the spiral]
A: Two sided triangle when seen from above, flat top of beam, no gables. 1.3 meters between bases of the three columns. Columns: 1.6 meters tall. Base set at 30 degree angle. Center column placed to the East of the pool. Use pure spiral, counterclockwise, corresponding to Northern hemisphere of the planet.
Q: (L) Okay, once we have set this up, what is it going to do for us?
A: Empower 4th through 6th density STO channel transceiver.
Q: (L) Well, I guess I need to make some really big bucks to do this!
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Well, will I be able to do this soon?
A: That is up to you. If you follow guidance, yes.

It's your health and your children's. I love pools and am interested in pools, despite not having one. Does anyone in the forum love swimming pools?

Session 960527
Q: (L) We would like to ask some more questions about the architectural project mentioned the other night. We were given the height and distance apart of the three column structure, would it be okay to build this on the perimeter of the existing pool?
A: No. You must wait until you have the financial resources to construct an in ground pool. The spiral must be below ground level by at least 1 meter, must be constructed of blue, gold ceramic tile perfectly cut and even. Columns cannot be purchased as prefabricated. Must be constructed onsite. Cap should be 18 centimeters in height, 2 meters in length, same dimensions for cap and base.
Q: (L) Can or should we do this with our own hands?
A: Hire a contractor... you are not adequately skilled.
Q: (L) How many grooves in each column?
A: Diameter of columns should be 10 to 14 centimeters; width of fluting should be 2 centimeters. Use illustrations of authentic ionic columns as a guide.
Q: (L) The counter-clockwise spiral of tile, how many turns?
A: Turns not important. Width should be 1.6 meters.
Q: (L) Blue tile with gold border?
A: Mixed blue and gold.
Q: (L) Blue with specks of gold?
A: Close. Translucent.
Q: (L) Is azure an appropriate blue?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Should anything be incorporated into the cement mix to pour the columns?
A: No.
Q: (L) Should the columns be hollow and used for flowing water?
A: No. Place fountain or hydrable pond in front of columns.
Q: (L) Pool shape: square on one end then rounded at one end. Rectangular with a curved end. [planchette is drawing shape of pool] (Curved end to follow guide of columns at end).
A: The fountain should be in between and the spiral in the middle of the pool.
Q: (L) Are you having fun designing a 3rd density pool?
A: 6th density is always "fun!"
Q: (L) What about the turns on the spirals at the top of the columns?
A: Up to you.
Q: (L) Is this pool meant to be built here, on this property?
A: Up to you.

Session 960824
Q: (L) Why do I have this persistent, overwhelming pain in my shoulder. I am simply unable to do anything with this pain. If it were not so bad, I would not ask, but I am in such constant pain that it is difficult to even concentrate.
A: Soft calcium tissues.
Q: (V) How can she work that out?
A: Through re-energization of the body, combined with cleansing at the same time.
Q: (L) Are you talking about fasting?
A: A fast would not be good, except one day per each ten.
Q: (L) Okay, you say re-energization combined with cleansing. What is the proposed protocol to accomplish this?
A: You have been spending too much "time" being static.
Q: (L) You are saying that I need to get out and move around?
A: 1.5 hours per day. We recommend the first order of business is to clean the pool, then swim 100 circular "laps" each day. Swimming gets the entire body to move and purge, thus your cleansing.

Session 980704
Q: (L) What about the building of the pool you suggested. Is that something that is essential or useful?
A: Not essential, but very helpful.


2.
How about building an orgone-cabin (sauna-like) using Wilhelm Reich's technology? Infusing the body with life-force to assist the body repair DNA damage and awaken dormant self-repair abilities?
Surely the C's can help with the technical details if the details are not available in today's engineering literature.
 
Prodigal Son said:
I’ve been on a VLC (less than 10g/day – seasonal green vegetables to soak up the breakfast fat) and high fat diet for over a year now, the improvement - for me, especially after starting cold thermogensis in the last couple of months – is nothing short of astonishing, even astounding. :) I now get up with the birds singing in the morning, can work through until 10.00 at night with little or no fatigue – piling a lot into each day, and with a real joy in working on the projects I’ve set up for myself. :) Paraphrasing anart (some time in the past) ‘it’s amazing what you can fit into a day’. :)

Same here. I've been on a VLC/high fat diet for over an year and feel absolutely great. Having cold showers since March the main thing I notice with this addition is improved digestion, which is one thing I've struggled with here and there in trying to sort out how much fat versus protein, versus carbs to eat.

One of the interesting things I also noticed since having entered Ketosis, is that although I am still sensitive to cold, I became increasingly sensitive to heat. I can't stand heat while I'm digesting food, I'll become nauseous and the food will remain undigested. This sensitivity can also manifest when eating food that is too hot. A couple of pages back I reported having problems with food that is newly cooked, but not reheated. After further experimentation it seems to me that this may not be so much connected to the reheating process, but with the food temperature itself. After reheating I don't normally allow food to reach the temperature it reaches when newly cooked, so that in the end the reheated food I eat is colder.
Then I noticed Psalehesost's post on the Cryogenic thread reporting how drinking iced water is helping his digestion, and I've been trying the same when feeling particularly heavy after eating. I can completely attest for its positive results. So, there really seems to be something in how temperature affects digestion, at least for some of us.

Prodigal Son said:
The only downsides I can see are: stools – still not the size suggested in Fiber Menace, and that’s probably down to my age and eating too many fibrous things through life, and I’m still taking supplements for healing a leaky gut; and liver spots which seem huge on the sides of my body – so, I’ve restarted a liver cleanse to cope with the fat and protein, on top of HCL acid and Mega Enzymes.

Have you tried L-Glutamin? It may not work for you the same way it does for me, but this has been for me the number 1 supplement in digestive help. It has, on a few occasions, given me excellent results. The latest being these past weeks. I had been reintroducing butter with no apparent negative effects. Well, it seems that butter's reactions manifest in me on a long term. My skin was gradually degrading, and I was becoming more and more bloated, reaching the same plateau I reached last year before taking Glutamin, I looked like I was pregnant. Within one day of taking it the bloating disappeared completely. Not only that, but my bowel movements and stool type, which haven't been normal since the beginning of the diet, have normalized, so that may be something for you to consider as well Prodigal Son.

Right now I'm mourning the loss of my butter....darn, did I love butter.
 
Goemon_ said:
I have try to follow the VLC approach for several weeks. My only sources of carbs were salad, eggs and liver and cocoa powder (with my supplement).

I have been tired all the time and I regularly broke the rule eating nuts or almonds in big quantities in the evening.

When I don't take the nuts I replace them by eggs and/or saucisson.

Watch out for hidden carbs in supplements. They can be as much as the carbs from food, if your food carbs are very low. Not that it will necessarily hurt you, but if you want to see how your body runs on low carbs, it is something to take into account.

I have been moving toward taking very few supplements. Some of them have potential for causing harm, and I just suspect from all I have read that mostly they aren't needed if you are eating high-quality food. I do continue with a 'detox cocktail,' but that is because I have been exposed to a lot of medical radiation in the last five years, and I am not sure what else to do.

Nuts are something to consider eliminating. I was experimenting last month, overdosed on them, gained weight, and came down with a cold. The main thing I have been reading is that they drive up omega 6's. A small amount of nuts shouldn't hurt if you aren't allergic to them, but it's a good idea to soak/dehydrate/roast them and I am finding that it isn't worth the trouble for the small benefit they might offer. Commercially prepared roasted nuts are not soaked, and are often roasted using oils that you do not want to put in your mouth, ever.

I have recently read the transcript of Paul Jaminet for the Paleo Summit.

One reason I like the Chris Kresser podcasts (_http://chriskresser.com/category/podcasts/) is that he has done a number of shows with others, including Paul Jaminet. Some of the podcasts are like mini Paleo summits. Currently I am about half way through the ones from 2011, listening to one he did with Chris Masterjohn. I have also ordered the DVD set from PaleoFx. I really like to listen to a variety of opinions.
 
Prodigal Son said:
I’ve been on a VLC (less than 10g/day – seasonal green vegetables to soak up the breakfast fat) and high fat diet for over a year now, the improvement - for me, especially after starting cold thermogensis in the last couple of months – is nothing short of astonishing, even astounding. :) I now get up with the birds singing in the morning, can work through until 10.00 at night with little or no fatigue – piling a lot into each day, and with a real joy in working on the projects I’ve set up for myself. :) Paraphrasing anart (some time in the past) ‘it’s amazing what you can fit into a day’. :)

The only downsides I can see are: stools – still not the size suggested in Fiber Menace, and that’s probably down to my age and eating too many fibrous things through life, and I’m still taking supplements for healing a leaky gut; and liver spots which seem huge on the sides of my body – so, I’ve restarted a liver cleanse to cope with the fat and protein, on top of HCL acid and Mega Enzymes...

This is what we hope for. Unfortunately, it's not what everybody here experiences, but the VLC paleo approach has a solid foundation and it ought to work for a lot of people. I wouldn't worry too much about the stool "form," as long as that is all you are seeing. Fiber Menace was written by someone with severe bowel disease, and is aimed at others with similar issues and those at risk for developing them. And, as I mentioned earlier, from my experience it appears that bran from grains might be more abrasive than other forms of fiber. If you have eliminated grains, you have eliminated a major source of trouble in SO many ways.
 
Mrs. Peel said:
I've had the candida "itch" for decades, and I started upping the Vit. D after reading the e-book Laura posted, knowing my levels were low from recent bloodwork. The saliva testing I'd like is for cortisol (the insomnia, I've already done sleep studies at a lab), thyroid (I'm always freezing, losing hair, brittle nails, cold hands and feet, low body temperature), and hormone levels (ten years after an early menipause, I'm still suffering from symptoms that are getting worse instead of better). Conventional doctors don't even recognize saliva testing, adrenal fatigue (I was told that from iridology, plus the symptoms) or candida, which is why I haven't done any testing.

And yes, giving up gluten, dairy, and sugar do make a difference, and will make more of a difference as time goes on with the healing process, I'm sure.

OK. I have my own set of lifetime issues to deal with -- that mainstream medicine does not acknowledge -- and I am finding that it might be better to just live with the symptoms than to try to correct it without knowing precisely what is going on. Actually, a lot of what I have going on resembles a lot of what you have going on, now that you mention it. It's pretty frustrating, and I suspect a lot of mine was actually caused by mainstream medicine in the first place. Good luck with the testing. Hopefully I will soon be able to do some of that too.
 
Megan said:
I wouldn't worry too much about the stool "form," as long as that is all you are seeing. Fiber Menace was written by someone with severe bowel disease, and is aimed at others with similar issues and those at risk for developing them. And, as I mentioned earlier, from my experience it appears that bran from grains might be more abrasive than other forms of fiber. If you have eliminated grains, you have eliminated a major source of trouble in SO many ways.

Yes, even though I mentioned L-Glutamin I have to agree with Megan. If your bowel movements are relatively normal I wouldn't worry too much about stool form, unless there is something there clearly abnormal. The author from FM did give us some good pointers, but trying to stick to every single given detail may be unrealistic.

Also, what exactly do you mean by liver spots Prodigal Son? Even though Wikipedia is not the most reliable source ever, here is a little extract:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_spot said:
Liver spots (also known as "Solar lentigo",[1] "Lentigo senilis"[1]:686, "Old age spot,"[2] "Senile freckle"[2]) are blemishes on the skin associated with aging and exposure to ultraviolet radiation from the sun. They range in color from light brown to red or black and are located in areas most often exposed to the sun, particularly the hands, face, shoulders, arms and forehead, and the scalp if bald.

The spots derive their name from the fact that they were once incorrectly believed to be caused by liver problems, but they are physiologically unrelated to the liver, save for a similar color.[3] From the age of 40 onward the skin is less able to regenerate from sun exposure, and liver spots are very common in this age group, particularly in those who spend time in the sun.

I was unfamiliar with the English expression "liver spots", and this is what came out on a quick search. I have to go to work now, otherwise I'd take a bit more time to look into it.
 
Gertrudes said:
...

Also, what exactly do you mean by liver spots Prodigal Son? Even though Wikipedia is not the most reliable source ever, here is a little extract:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_spot said:
Liver spots (also known as "Solar lentigo",[1] "Lentigo senilis"[1]:686, "Old age spot,"[2] "Senile freckle"[2]) are blemishes on the skin associated with aging and exposure to ultraviolet radiation from the sun. They range in color from light brown to red or black and are located in areas most often exposed to the sun, particularly the hands, face, shoulders, arms and forehead, and the scalp if bald.

The spots derive their name from the fact that they were once incorrectly believed to be caused by liver problems, but they are physiologically unrelated to the liver, save for a similar color.[3] From the age of 40 onward the skin is less able to regenerate from sun exposure, and liver spots are very common in this age group, particularly in those who spend time in the sun.

I was unfamiliar with the English expression "liver spots", and this is what came out on a quick search. I have to go to work now, otherwise I'd take a bit more time to look into it.
That is what I have, large brown blemishes, usually circular, located on the sides of my body - well away from the sun. :) And yes it could be just a function of my age. It's good to know that it's nothing to do with the liver - I can stop taking those supplements! :) It would appear from a quick search that they are benign, unless they change size.

Regarding stools, this was merely an observation rather than a concern.
 
Megan said:
Laura said:
What I have noticed is this: when I do zero carbs, I can hardly function at all. My legs feel like jello and no matter how many minerals or supplements I take, I am so exhausted I can barely move. I get dizzy and vertigo. And I did it for months with no change. But, up the carbs just a bit and I'm fine...

One possibility that has been raised is that zero carbs could starve the "good" gut flora. These flora can vary a lot from one person to another, so perhaps that is why individual results are so different. Clearly, whole populations have done well on zero carbs. But then, as pointed out in (I think) Deep Nutrition, they didn't necessarily share their secrets (or their epigenomes) with others.
I think the Inuits are one of those who haven't shared their Epigenomes, ;)

But yeah for most of us who descend from people who've been eating grains for a couple of generations, still getting carbs in is probably a necessity because we are quite literally repairing the past, ie our genome into a state before the introduction of such substances into our organism. As to the carbs and starving gut flora, I don't think glucose is selective in which bacteria it enters, but I think that lowering carbs would have an effect on the bacterial population in the gut, and since the paleo diet reduces all kinds of immune problems, the immune system would be better able to handle pathogenic microorganisms, the microorganisms in the gut having less fuel, they would be more susceptible to the onslaught of the immune system so their proliferation would be better checked on the Low Carb High Fat (LCHF) diet.

That was a fascinating read Oxajil, and I too have to eat cool food Gertrudes, warm fat is preferable to hot.
 
Hesper said:
I agree with Oxajil that perhaps it isn't so important to up your carbs, since you've been getting a lot already. I would cut down on the nuts, especially since you say you're devouring too many of them, and the liver. I've been eating liver a lot lately too and it's messed with my ketosis since it's so high in protein. It's around 32 grams of protein for one 6 ounce portion, and it's too easy for me to eat that much in a meal. Maybe just cutting back on the nuts, increasing the fat (butter in tea is my favorite way to go now), and being patient as ketosis sets in is the way to go? Being tired all the time is definitely a clue that your body may be struggling to get all the way into ketosis OSIT.

I don't think the liver is the issue here. In PBPM, Nora says that the mTor pathyway doesn't get activated until after 25g of protein, so if you're eating 32g of protein, even if it strictly converted to sugar after 25g, that should still only translate into 7g carbs/sugar units in your body, or so I think. Liver is also not as high in protein as muscle meat (Nora cites it at 23g per 3oz [though not sure what animal liver she's referring to--I'm betting cow] compared to 28g/3oz roast beef at the upper end and ham at 18g on the lower end of just meat).

I also felt tired for a while without identifying the cause and now I'm pretty sure that it was beef. I've cut out beef for at least a couple of weeks and have been feeling pretty good (though my experiments aren't over yet). I'm currently on pork (primarily bacon and liver), pastured butter (will probably experiment cutting out for a while soon), some canned herring from the gulf of Maine (35g protein per can), and occasionally I drink coconut water (11g carbs/drink). I just tried some chocolate again yesterday and haven't had any major issues, but find it to be less appealing now than in the past. I also had some macadamia nuts recently which didn't seem terrible, but also not great. And I had some cashews recently--roasted seemed mildly unpleasant but tasty and raw organic made me feel pretty terrible--so cashews are pretty much out for me except perhaps in very small quantities and roasted. I'm going to try another experiment with beef sometime soon to confirm if that was the cause of my issues.

Many days I'm very close to zero carbs and doubt that I ever exceed 30g on any given day (and I think that's the rare extreme, probably closer to 20g max). My bacon is cured with sugar and brown sugar and I'm not exactly sure how much (I'll probably ask tomorrow at the market, actually), but I think it's pretty low and I usually only eat a few slices at a meal along with a few slices of butter. I eat probably a half an onion when I eat liver (and usually with bacon), so there's my other main source of carbs, along with the infrequent coconut water.

So I'd say if you're still feeling sluggish, try changing out your preferred animal--maybe going with just pork?
 
Megan said:
Watch out for hidden carbs in supplements. They can be as much as the carbs from food, if your food carbs are very low. Not that it will necessarily hurt you, but if you want to see how your body runs on low carbs, it is something to take into account.

You know, I've been wondering about the carbs hidden in ascorbic acid since it's so sweet and tasty to me. I did a quick search and found this from PubMed. _http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/998544


Acute effect of ascorbic acid infusion on carbohydrate tolerance.


Large doses (1 to 2g/3 hr) of ascorbic acid were administered intravenously to normal weight and obese, nondiabetic subjects. Glucose tolerance and fasting plasma glucose levels were unaffected, despite a 3- to 8-fold rise in plasma concentrations of the vitamin. Infusion of ascorbic acid did not alter fasting serum insulin levels in normal subjects, but was associated with lower concentrations of hormone during an intravenous glucose tolerance test. Plasma glucose, serum insulin, growth hormone, and glucagon levels in obese subjects remained unchanged during the ascorbic acid infusion.
 

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