"Life Without Bread"

[Thor]

Yeah, I'm struggling along with the sleepies half the day too! I'll be taking L-glutamine tomorrow morning before breakfast and then again, before my second meal of the day to see how that does. Also added back fish-oil.

I am really noticing all kinds of things going on with the body while I persist in moving it through these changes and I do wonder if some of it is incipient DNA changes? That's one thing that stands out for me in all the reading we've been doing: what you eat determines DNA activation or suppression. Who knows what we will discover in the course of this experiment?

I had some L-glutamine before bed last night (on an empty stomach). This morning I nearly had an attack of cramp in my legs (it seems taking it at night dehydrates me - so watch out for that).
However, despite going to bed late and being sluggish in the morning I've yet to experience the tiredness I've been having the last week or so.

As to DNA changes, you may be on to something. My body really is changing a lot (heck I feel like I can breath/get oxygen in more easily). But specifically the DNA changes, I had noticed pain in my right shoulder (and today my left). I'm sure the C's once mentioned pain in the right should as (potentially) being DNA changes.
I've also noticed a few 'shifts' in myself the last few days, almost as if reality has changed (I presume its my perception of it that's changed). Everything seems......easier?

Another thing to note (especially if some people are feeling 'stuck') is gentle exercise like a long walk (or carrying heavy object to the post office ) seems to make a difference. Exercise has always resulted in fatigue and feeling worse for days for me, and initially I get the fatigue/feeling worse/lack of muscle strength.....but then things shift and I have an apparent abundance of energy/heat in my body.
Perhaps doing warriors breath would be another way to get this going.

I don't know about DNA changes but I have experienced that over the past couple of weeks it is as if I am stronger despite feeling tired in the muscles. I do a lot of back exercises every day and I started noticing the change when I was doing slow squats one day. Three seconds to go down, three seconds hold and three seconds to go up. Normally, I could do this for maybe 7 -10 minutes and then my muscles would be trembling. However, now I feel that the muscles get tired but somehow that doesn't matter - they can just continue performing. I now stop somewhere between 15 and 18 minutes when the ligaments of the knee become sore. This is a 75%-100% increase in performance and it has been replicable as I have done it three times with the same result.

Another thing that has been going on the last couple of nights is that my body is almost producing too much heat. I find myself waking during the night with the cover pushed off my body to allow more heat to escape the body. I've always been a terrible sleeper but the last three nights have been worse than normal. A couple of weeks ago I decreased melatonin from 4-5 mg that I'd been taking for the past 6 months to 3 mg. Tonight, I'll try to go back to 4 mg to see if that helps.

Lastly, the ligaments in my knee and on the back-side of the hip/sacrum have become much more flexible. I don't know if this is a result of the bone broth (I have it 4-5 times a week), the diet itself or the increased performance of the squats described above. I have been doing yoga daily for the past 4 years and been "stuck" at the same level of stiffness the entire time why this sudden shift is quite remarkable.

 

[anart]

It is by no means a real fat. It is basically microwaved soybean oil with palm stearine, with aspartame added, plus a few toxic stuff. Yikes!!.

This is suicide: vegetable oil followed by sugar drink. Obviously this doesn't concern people on a true low carb diet.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/141/4/574

Lipid test beverage preparation.

The lipid test beverage was prepared as previously described (49). Briefly, blends of palm stearine and soybean oil (generously provided by Bunge Canada) were chemically interesterified to achieve a random distribution of fatty acids and a ratio of PUFA:SFA of 0.2. The final product was stored at −20°C until use. The FFA composition of the final product was analyzed by GC (Shimadzu) (Supplemental Table 2). On the day of the experiment, the interesterified product was warmed in a microwave oven (General Electric Canada) to reach a liquid state. Warm water (73%) and 2 emulsifiers (Acatris), Myverol (2%), and Tween 80 (0.15%), were added to the liquid fat. To ensure palatability, the drink was artificially flavored with Aspartame, a non-nutritive sweetener, and a commercially available toffee flavoring. The mixture was homogenized with an electric latte whip and served warm (~60°C).

That is insane! This is what passes for health research these days? Making people drink what is literally poison and then checking to see how they react?

 

[seek10]

I Want to give some update on how I am doing . I am on low carb and high fat diet for a month. I see the ketone stick started showing high from medium from the last 2 /3 days. No carbs except the small carbs in herbs and eggs. Energy levels are good and even if I skip dinner, I am not feeling hungry. Hoping to eat little more for the winter. I felt physical body is much stronger than before and less mental fog.

My real problem continue to be the stress levels from early traumatic programs that gets triggered during my crazy paced Job which pushes every body to run, run and run. This is making life very stressful and vulnerable to negative interjects, narcissism, ego, disassociation and sleep attacks . This results in either sleep deprevation or end up feelings of attack and subsequent depression, ADD symptoms. I hope I can break this vicious cycle. All goes back to trauma in watching my self and not interfering to stop it or healing it in time.

 

[ytain]

After reading this long long thread, I notice that nobody mentioned the importance of physical exercise like high intensity training or quick intense sprints. These exercises triggers the production of human growth hormone that are necessary for rebuilding the tissue/muscle/organs etc. For more information about this, you can read a book called "Body by Science" by John Little. In this book, it says that you can do HIT (high intensity training) once a week for 12 minutes and you still benefit from the exercise and the reason for one week between is because the muscle fibers need a minimum of 7 to 10 days to fully recover before doing the exercise again. Just take a look at small kids playing, observe their movements and speed. The book also has a chapter for seniors who can benefit from HIT to stop osteoporosis. If you don't have access to a gym, I recommend the book called "You are your own gym" by Marc Lauren, and follow the guidelines for HIT from the other book "Body by Science". Another book that I recommend in addition to "Body by Science" is a book by Peter Ralston called "Zen Body-Being", and in this book it details getting in touch with your body by expanding your awareness of the body-feeling, which can also benefit the breathing program developed by Laura.

Also on the same topic of the thread, I read the book "Dukan Diet" that is popular in France, it outlines starting one week with just meats only and fats as well, and no carbohydrates. And then introduce slowly other carbs of choice, however the book guideline doesn't follow quite the same path as avoiding the glutens and other foods that don't benefit us.

Right now I have celiac disease so I've completely eliminated glutens and sugars and other things that affect me badly. Now I'm enjoying the primal diet. In addition to the primal diet, I'm doing intermittent fasting and I feel good about it because fasting for 2 or 3 days a week, not in a row, clears my mind and sharpens my focus as well considering that the fasting is triggering the process of detoxing. For more information about intermittent fasting, read the book called "Eat Stop Eat" by Brad Pilon. The intermittent fasting is common in eastern Europe.

Ytain

 

[Gertrudes]

Yup! Can't do much about it at the moment due to digestive enzymes giving me diarrhea. I think this will change with time, but for the moment I'm going over those quotes Laura posted and trying to work out how to assist my digestion (perhaps with the raw ingredients my body needs to make stomach acid?).
I find myself wondering about how those in concentration camps who had been starved in WW2 had to proceed slowly to eat food/drink water or it would kill them. Perhaps this tiredness and other effects are our body coming out of starvation mode? Repairs to the body happen best during sleep too.

Lately I've been having a period of feeling very sleepy after lunch/breakfast. On the on hand I think that I need to try to figure out what is going on, on the other hand it reminds me of the old tradition of having a nap after eating so common amongst certain cultures. Although who's to say that the popular nap doesn't follow a heavily loaded carbohydrate meal?...

Is anyone else experiencing this?

The simple answer to that question is yes! :)

The quotes that Laura has provided explain the fatigue during the transition (currently on day 26 (at 20g or just lower), with potentially two more weeks to go!). Increasing fat via ghee/butter is helping the process (fat is the only thing that I've not really measured to see if I'm at the recommended level).

Yeah, I'm struggling along with the sleepies half the day too! I'll be taking L-glutamine tomorrow morning before breakfast and then again, before my second meal of the day to see how that does. Also added back fish-oil.

I am really noticing all kinds of things going on with the body while I persist in moving it through these changes and I do wonder if some of it is incipient DNA changes? That's one thing that stands out for me in all the reading we've been doing: what you eat determines DNA activation or suppression. Who knows what we will discover in the course of this experiment?

Thanks for the input. It's helpful to know that some of you are experiencing this as well.
I have been taking L-glutamine and fish oil for about a month now (a little longer for L-glutamine) but that doesn't seem to make a difference for post meal sleepiness.
It's very weird, I've had the famous ketogenic "Zoom" and since then my energy levels have stabilized. I don't feel tired, but after certain meals I can get really sleepy and drowsy. Today I had a 1hr nap and just woke up because I had to go to work. This, for me, is unheard of, I just don't nap, apparently I didn't do it even as a toddler.

I also have been noticing changes. I sort of expected my body to reach a certain point and then fluctuate around it, but no, not this time. Things just seem to change continuously and I never can quite put my finger on what causes the changes. Some changes feel good, some not as good, but everything seems transitional.
Now that you mentioned DNA changes Laura, I realize that I was just seeing my body from a very narrow perspective, thinking of parts and not the whole. My whole system is likely changing, that's why I can't point out to anything specific.

Too often doctors (even natural doctors) assume that the body is somehow stupid and doesn't know how to function in its own best interest.

This is just so, so true! And it is this very assumption that seems to be at the root of much of the mainstream western medical approach. There is just such a tremendous lack of faith in nature and its sapience...

 

[Gertrudes]

It will be very difficult to remain in ketosis as I will often not be preparing my own food.

I think that the emotional attachment to "not being too weird" is definitely also at play. I don't want my diet to be the main interface between me and meeting new people and I can already foresee the dialogue There is definitely also a program going on somewhere. I can feel an internal resistance - like something just won't let go. It's is not rational or presenting arguments as to why it just doesn't want to let go. Why? Because it seems as if the sacrifice is greater than the gain (from the perspective of the programed part of the identity).

Hi Thor,

Adding to the excellent input you've already been given, to avoid possible questioning of yous food choices (if it happens) you can always say that carbs make you feel physically ill. You can say that you have IBS, diabetes, celiac disease, or that your digestive system simply can't handle it. We have been so brain washed about diet that this is probably the most considerate thing you can do for the questioners. If someone shows further interest, then you can expand accordingly.
In my experience this has solved all the problems with friends and family, quickly and effectively.

In the end it comes down to, as Redfox pointed out, whether you are willing to follow the diet or not. Everything else will tend to fall into place when a decision is made :)

I remember back when I was doing the USD, which was really low carb, I felt amazing and I had lost some weight. I re introduced potatoes into my diet, and I had been eating rice, quite a bit in fact.I believe that potatoes also give me inflamation, but I had been too lazy to change my eating. I have been dairy and gluten free.

Hi Angela, I just wanted to note that rice has been found to have gluten, only exception being wild rice. Unfortunately in what concerns gluten, there is no middle term, you either have it, or you don't, and even the most minute crumble seems to be enough to get you back to point zero. I know, a bit of bad news. But good news is that you'd be surprised on how you genuinely stop wanting it once you eliminate rice, plus all grains from your diet.

 

[Gertrudes]

Another thing to note (especially if some people are feeling 'stuck') is gentle exercise like a long walk (or carrying heavy object to the post office ) seems to make a difference. Exercise has always resulted in fatigue and feeling worse for days for me, and initially I get the fatigue/feeling worse/lack of muscle strength.....but then things shift and I have an apparent abundance of energy/heat in my body.
Perhaps doing warriors breath would be another way to get this going.

Good point Redfox. In fact, exercise, if the right one, for the right person, can have an extremely important role in helping conditions such as chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. So much as so as to often keep them at bay.
I have a few clients who suffer from both, and gentle exercise with emphasis on body awareness and breathing can do absolute wonders for them. I am aware that most of us grew up with the notion that after exercise you'll feel more tired. Not necessarily so, if done correctly and if chosen correctly for you, you can (or in healthy persons should) be left more energized then when you started. Even if suffering from fatigue.
So for those of you who are struggling with the transition, perhaps doing the EE warm up exercises, walk, swim, or if you're really into it even joining a class of gentle exercise (tai chi, pilates or yoga for example) may help.

 

[clearmiddle]

Bad news for the coffee addicts...

I think the worst news for coffee addicts, as well as for those of us using it occasionally for "medicinal purposes," comes from Primal Body, Primal Mind.

Among the most common true potentially cross-reactive compounds are:

• casein (milk protein and cheese included)
• oats (including the supposedly “gluten-free” kind)
• rye barley spelt kamut (also known as Polish wheat, Egyptian wheat, or camel’s wheat)
• yeast
• coffee (so sorry!)
• milk chocolate (don’t hit me)

Translation: When you eliminate gluten, eliminate all of these as well because your body is likely to react to them like it does to gluten.

Oh well.

 

[Angchop]

Hi Angela, I just wanted to note that rice has been found to have gluten, only exception being wild rice. Unfortunately in what concerns gluten, there is no middle term, you either have it, or you don't, and even the most minute crumble seems to be enough to get you back to point zero. I know, a bit of bad news. But good news is that you'd be surprised on how you genuinely stop wanting it once you eliminate rice, plus all grains from your diet.

I knew that rice wasn't good for us, but I was living in denial about it. I realize I haven't been completely gluten free, and I can definately tell by the way I had been feeling. After reading this thread and the book "Life without Bread", I have a new found determination to be free of the evils that gluten, dairy and a high carbohydrate diet. I was just sitting here thinking that it has easily been six hours since I had lunch, and I am still not hungry. This is amazing for me. Usually I would find myself grazing all day long!! Thanks Gertrudes for pointing this out for me. It helps to read it in black and white.

 

[clearmiddle]

I am really noticing all kinds of things going on with the body while I persist in moving it through these changes and I do wonder if some of it is incipient DNA changes? That's one thing that stands out for me in all the reading we've been doing: what you eat determines DNA activation or suppression. Who knows what we will discover in the course of this experiment?

Unless I am imagining things (possible), I have read that keto-adaptation does involve DNA changes, in the epigenome, presumably. Eades' "Tips" article (part 1) alludes to this. Some things are switched off, others are switched on. While the genome itself is (hopefully) static, it is constantly being read out by mRNA under the influence of epigenetic markers (and who knows what else). It doesn't matter if the nucleotide sequence remains unchanged because the mRNA transcript is what matters. This PDF contains an interesting chart showing a selection of foods and their epigenetic influences.

So yes, we have seen what can be unlocked by eating the wrong foods (e.g. "western diet"). Let's try some other combinations! And it wouldn't hurt to look over some of the existing research. There might be clues.

 

[clearmiddle]

I knew that rice wasn't good for us, but I was living in denial about it. I realize I haven't been completely gluten free, and I can definately tell by the way I had been feeling. After reading this thread and the book "Life without Bread", I have a new found determination to be free of the evils that gluten, dairy and a high carbohydrate diet. I was just sitting here thinking that it has easily been six hours since I had lunch, and I am still not hungry. This is amazing for me. Usually I would find myself grazing all day long!! Thanks Gertrudes for pointing this out for me. It helps to read it in black and white.

I have seen confusion in the use of the word "gluten." It doesn't really matter. A food doesn't have to "contain" gluten for the body to react as if it were gluten, once the body has been compromised by exposure to gluten. Fortunately, after being free from gluten for a long enough time, it may be possible to reintroduce some of the other cross-reacting foods, but I can see that avoiding grains in general may be important, particularly the seeds of annual grasses as highlighted in The Vegetarian Myth. Rice is such a seed, and wild rice as well.

But this is a learning process and we are discovering things all the time. Gluten, gluten cross-reactivity, prolamins, lectins. The odd thing is, what we are doing amounts, really, to rediscovering what our distant ancestors (or not-so-distant, depending on where you are) knew well about what to eat and what not to eat.

 

[Gawan]

FWIW I found some information in Dr. Bernsteins book, regarding calcium. Well, and he recommends also lots of fiber in his diet (especially for diabetics), just to note it:

p.124

Phosphate, a by-product of protein digestion, requires calcium in order to be eliminated from the body—about 1gram of calcium for every 10ounces of protein foods. If you don't eat much cheese, cream,milk (too high in carbohydrate), yogurt, or bones, all good sources of calcium, it would be wise to take a calcium supplement. This will prevent slow loss of calcium from your bones. I recommend calcium in formulations supplemented with magnesium and vitamin D.

p.166

CHANGES IN BOWEL MOVEMENTS

A new diet often brings about changes in frequency and consistency of bowel movements. This is perfectly natural and should not cause concern unless you experience discomfort. Increasing the fiber content of meals, as with salads, bran crackers, and soybean products, can cause softer and more frequent stools. More dietary protein can cause less frequent and harder stools. Calcium tablets can cause hard stools and constipation, but this is usually offset if they contain magnesium. Normal frequency of bowel movements can range from 3 times per day to 3times per week. If you notice any changes in your bowel habits more or less than these frequencies, discuss them with your physician.

p.179

Calcium Concerns

… The phosphorus present in proteins also may bind calcium slightly. Since I discourage the use of milk and certain milk products (except cheese, yogurt, and cream), which are good sources of dietary calcium, the potential for bone mineral depletion may indeed be real. This is a special problem for women, who tend to lose bone mass at an increased rate after menopause. I recommend a calcium supplement to anyone who follows our diet and doesn't use cheese, yogurt, or cream, especially women. Since some women rapidly lose calcium from their bones after menopause, it makes sense to build up calcium stores earlier in life, and to offset high-fiber and high-protein diets with extra calcium.

{skipped the part about the importance of calcium for teens and growing}

I recommend calcium citrate because it is well absorbed in the gut and inhibits the formation of kidney stones. One study of calcium supplementation suggests the equivalent of at least 1,000 mg for every 10 ounces of protein consumed. Calcium supplements are best taken with each meal. Calcium tablets taken at bedtime are often effective in reducing the frequency of nocturnal muscle cramps in the legs. Sedentary and thin people lose more bone calcium over a lifetime than do physically active people. Exercise builds bone just as it builds muscle.

p.454

A study of older individuals who were rotated between low-, moderate-, and high-salt diets demonstrated that those on low-salt diets experienced significantly more sleep disturbances, and had more rapid heart rates and higher serum epinephrine (adrenaline) levels. An international study called Inter salt, covering 10,079 people in 32 countries, reported in 1988 that "salt has only small importance in hypertension."More recently, another study showed that salt restriction increases insulin resistance and thus can indirectly increase blood pressure.

Large amounts of dietary salt can facilitate loss of calcium from bones of post-menopausal women, who are already at high risk for osteoporosis (bone weakening).

 

[clearmiddle]

FWIW I found some information in Dr. Bernsteins book, regarding calcium. Well, and he recommends also lots of fiber in his diet (especially for diabetics), just to note it:

You can increase fiber intake temporarily; just don't overdo it. If it produces abrasive stool (you will know) then I think you might be overdoing it. If you use "supplemental" fiber then you may be heading for trouble--I would say get it from eating veggies, not from a box or bin.

It can take 15-20 years for high fiber intake to do serious and potentially permanent damage, though there is no guarantee that it couldn't happen faster. I don't think it is going to hurt to experiment with additional fiber for a limited period of time. I have increased my fiber intake slightly to try to get things working smoothly again. You don't want to become dependent on it.

The type of fiber matters too. Soluble fiber can have a laxative effect as I recall. But I don't think you would want to consume a lot of it.

 

[Laura]

Those with stomach bloating, check out this article!!!

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/233057-What-s-causing-this-lady-s-stomach-to-bloat-after-eating-

 

[Ellipse]

Those with stomach bloating, check out this article!!!

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/233057-What-s-causing-this-lady-s-stomach-to-bloat-after-eating-

You know, what we are lacking on the forum, is a TCM (Traditional Chines Medicine) expert. The TCM know all these things for long, but better, know to diagnose why a particular person is lacking of acidity for example. There's certainly errors and corruption in TCM but based on 3000 years study of the human body, it's incredibly advanced.