"Life Without Bread"

[Thor]

It will be very difficult to remain in ketosis as I will often not be preparing my own food.

I think that the emotional attachment to "not being too weird" is definitely also at play. I don't want my diet to be the main interface between me and meeting new people and I can already foresee the dialogue There is definitely also a program going on somewhere. I can feel an internal resistance - like something just won't let go. It's is not rational or presenting arguments as to why it just doesn't want to let go. Why? Because it seems as if the sacrifice is greater than the gain (from the perspective of the programed part of the identity).

Hi Thor,

Adding to the excellent input you've already been given, to avoid possible questioning of yous food choices (if it happens) you can always say that carbs make you feel physically ill. You can say that you have IBS, diabetes, celiac disease, or that your digestive system simply can't handle it. We have been so brain washed about diet that this is probably the most considerate thing you can do for the questioners. If someone shows further interest, then you can expand accordingly.
In my experience this has solved all the problems with friends and family, quickly and effectively.

In the end it comes down to, as Redfox pointed out, whether you are willing to follow the diet or not. Everything else will tend to fall into place when a decision is made :)

Gertrudes and Redfox, thanks for your comments - it often helps to have someone stating the obvious. It's as if I just don't want to acknowledge that it is so and I can semi-successfully push it to the back of my mind. Then, when someone pushes it right in front of your face, there's no way to avoid seeing it :).

You are entirely right, what it comes down to is making the decision and adapting accepting the consequences (preparing food for a day or two to bring if I'm not able to cook myself).

 

[Joe]

I'm pretty sure I went into ketosis last week when my boss offered me a piece of gum I said "Oh, am I stinky?" and she said "Yep!"

On the bad breath thing; since we're all eating more meat, one cause might be meat stuck between teeth, which causes the standard bad breath smell. Toothpicks have become 'must have' items for me.

 

[chachazoom]

I'm pretty sure I went into ketosis last week when my boss offered me a piece of gum I said "Oh, am I stinky?" and she said "Yep!"

On the bad breath thing; since we're all eating more meat, one cause might be meat stuck between teeth, which causes the standard bad breath smell. Toothpicks have become 'must have' items for me.

ketones being released through the breath can cause an unusual odour too.

 

[beetlemaniac]

I have been doing the low-carb diet for a while now, silently following the updates on the thread (I still haven't read through the whole).

The main problem I've been having is determining how much of each nutrient (mainly protein, fat, carbs kept around 20) to have each day. Sleep troubles were plaguing me for a while now, and I think it was mostly due to lack of nutrients, I cannot seem to recognise the new "fat hunger" feeling. Previously, in the old carb eating paradigm I would have hunger pangs that were strong, but I would forcibly (mentally) blunt them most of the time since I had this phobia of gaining weight again (I used to be quite plump). Thus I really screwed up my reading of hunger signals.

So on this low-carb diet I may have under-eaten more than once. It also explains why I had so much trouble sleeping. From what I read in the previous posts the adrenergic system gets working when there's not enough nutrients to keep the brain working, because it would mean risking a comatose brain if the system was to allow a person to go to sleep in that state.

But right now, after having a meal of a pork, brain and egg fry up, my goodness, I feel ALIVE! Euphoric! Spontaneous bursts of laughter! Music sounds just divine! No words for this. The timing's a little bad though, it's night time and we'll see if I can easily get to sleep later. :)

edit: I also wanted to add that I started severely limiting carbs following the Induction Phase of the New Atkins protocol 3 days ago, before that I was regularly having xylitol and buckwheat pancakes for breakfast. I have also been properly journaling my meals and feelings only very recently and this seems to be of real importance to really track and consequently understand the changes going on in my body. Besides reading and following the thread, of course, major thank you to everyone!

 

[Thor]

I have been doing the low-carb diet for a while now, silently following the updates on the thread (I still haven't read through the whole).

The main problem I've been having is determining how much of each nutrient (mainly protein, fat, carbs kept around 20) to have each day. Sleep troubles were plaguing me for a while now, and I think it was mostly due to lack of nutrients, I cannot seem to recognise the new "fat hunger" feeling. Previously, in the old carb eating paradigm I would have hunger pangs that were strong, but I would forcibly (mentally) blunt them most of the time since I had this phobia of gaining weight again (I used to be quite plump). Thus I really screwed up my reading of hunger signals.

Hi Beetlemaniac, here is a recommendation on the levels of nutrients that you can follow based on the amount of carbs, protein and fat you eat on a given day. Just plug in you own numbers :):

Hi All !

I'd like to check if my fat / protein ratio is reasonable. Any ideas ?

Body weight is 160lbs (or ~73kg), height 6 ft (or 180cm). Protein from meats - 130g a day, fat is about 200g a day, carbs ~ 30g a day.

Do I take enough fat & protein ? My idea is to gain some weight.

There is some discussion of this issue earlier in the thread with an equation to derive upper and lower limits on fat, protein based on your weight and carb consumption.

Wf = 1.04(Wp + Wc)

Where

Wf = weight of fat
Wp = weight of protein
Wc = weight of carbs

The limits are calculated based on the assumption that the protein you consume (in grams) should be 1.5 - 2.5 times your body weight (in kilos) as suggested in TAASFLCL. Therefore your protein intake should be between 110 g and 183 g per day based on a 73 kilo body weight.

The recommended level of carbs to move into ketosis is 20 g per day but it is highly recommended to read the entire thread and also the books to determine how to transition to the low carb diet.

As to fat, the assumption is that that at least 70% of you energy should be fat based leading to a minimum fat to protein ratio of 1.04, meaning that if you add the weight of carbs and protein and add 4% you will have the minimum weight of fat that will allow 70% of your energy to come from fat. Eating more is fine, as I understand it. In you example, you're fine, as long as your fat intake is above 164 g.

 

[anart]

My real problem continue to be the stress levels from early traumatic programs that gets triggered during my crazy paced Job which pushes every body to run, run and run. This is making life very stressful and vulnerable to negative interjects, narcissism, ego, disassociation and sleep attacks . This results in either sleep deprevation or end up feelings of attack and subsequent depression, ADD symptoms. I hope I can break this vicious cycle. All goes back to trauma in watching my self and not interfering to stop it or healing it in time.

Hi seek10,

You absolutely HAVE to sleep - lack of sleep is making everything worse - yet you seem to be afraid to sleep because you are concerned about 'attack in sleep'. I think you need to deeply - deeply - understand that sleep is a defense, it builds your reserves and is when you recharge from your higher centers. You HAVE to sleep. In fact, in your case, I would say that the danger of 'attacks' in sleep pale in comparison to the damage you are doing yourself by being hyper-vigilant and not sleeping. I cannot stress this enough. You must come to understand that you do have natural defenses against certain attacks - IF your energy reserves are full from good, healthy, prolonged sleep - and that the idea that you are being attacked in your sleep is actually a manifestation of a lack of sleep!!


Perhaps these will help you understand more:

Q: (L) Is it essential, in an evolutionary sense, for the human
body to sleep?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Why is it that carnivores need more sleep than
herbivores, and on down?
A: Physicality, my dear, physicality.
Q: (L) What is it about physicality that necessitates sleep?
What are we doing while we are sleeping?
A: Body recharge.
Q: (L) Where is the body being recharged from or what is it
being recharged by?
A: Rest.
Q: (L) What is the soul doing while the body is sleeping?
A: Same, it taxes the soul greatly to be embodied.
Q: (L) Is this why, when people suffer sleep deprivation,
they go psychotic?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Why are the results of sleep deprivation, psychosis,
delirium tremens, and psychedelic drugs and some mystical
states so similar in their expressions and manifestations?
What is being seen?
A: Openings.
Q: (L) Well, if doing without sleep provides an opening,
what is it an opening to?
A: Density levels 4 and up.

Q: (A) Now, I was reading in the transcripts that
sleep is necessary for human beings because it was a
period of rest and recharging. You also said that the
SOUL rests while the body is sleeping. So, the
question is: what source of energy is tapped to
recharge both the body and the soul?
A: The question needs to be separated. What
happens to a souled individual is different from an
organic portal unit.
Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy
that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like
the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and
fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and
inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well
defined that they only differ from one another in the
way that different species of trees are different in the
overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have
souls, where does the energy come from that
recharges Organic Portals?
A: The pool you have described.
Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from
a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?
A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center
which is a higher center of creative energy. During
sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the
lower intellectual cener and the moving center,
transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is
also the time during which the higher emotional and
intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the
lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic
portals so much loved by the lower centers. This
respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But,
more than that, the energy of the sexual center is
also more available to the other higher centers.

It sounds like you're surrounded by petty tyrant organic portals at work, so you must understand that sleeping is essential - it is your protection. There is nothing that can happen to you in a 'sleep attack' that is, or will be, worse than your own self-imposed sleep deprivation. I can assure you of that. If you've not yet tried taking melatonin for sleep, please do, GABA is also effective - since you may be waking up 'automatically' so you need some assistance in sleeping the entire night. I can't stress strongly enough the importance of you getting a full, deep, night's sleep every night. I hope this helps.

 

[Gertrudes]

Those with stomach bloating, check out this article!!!

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/233057-What-s-causing-this-lady-s-stomach-to-bloat-after-eating-

Thanks for mentioning this article Laura. Coincidentally, I've included hydrochloric acid on my supplement order recently. Will see how that helps with my bloating.

 

[Infiniteness]

My real problem continue to be the stress levels from early traumatic programs that gets triggered during my crazy paced Job which pushes every body to run, run and run. This is making life very stressful and vulnerable to negative interjects, narcissism, ego, disassociation and sleep attacks . This results in either sleep deprevation or end up feelings of attack and subsequent depression, ADD symptoms. I hope I can break this vicious cycle. All goes back to trauma in watching my self and not interfering to stop it or healing it in time.

Hi seek10,

I agree with anart. Lately I also had a nasty experience with sleep deprivation, though it was because I was offered a grave yard job (working 11pm to 7am). After a couple of weeks of working this security job at night, I was toast. I would come home and only get about a couple of hours of sleep because my body was still use to sleeping at night. Through out the rest of the evening and night I would feel just sick, increased brain fog, fatigued, and with a whole other host of symptoms. It could so bad one morning after I got off of work, that I was falling asleep on the wheel on the freeway! I tried turning up the radio and even slapped myself trying to keep myself up, but my body demanded sleep. So I got off the freeway and slept in a Target parking lot for an hour and then went home. So after a couple of weeks of working night shifts I decided to quit, even my parents said that it was taking too much of a toll on me. So most definitely try to get your sleep, you can also try 5HTP, I have heard that it really helps some folks go to sleep.

Here are some SOTT articles about the topic.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/180577-The-Stunning-Consequences-of-Sleep-Deprivation
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/193781-Alzheimer-s-Linked-to-Lack-of-Sleep
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/202813-Impact-of-Sleep-Deprivation-on-Brain-Functioning-Different-than-Previously-Thought
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/165074-Loss-of-sleep-even-for-a-single-night-increases-inflammation-in-the-body

All the best.

 

[dugdeep]

Also on the same topic of the thread, I read the book "Dukan Diet" that is popular in France, it outlines starting one week with just meats only and fats as well, and no carbohydrates. And then introduce slowly other carbs of choice, however the book guideline doesn't follow quite the same path as avoiding the glutens and other foods that don't benefit us.

The "Dukan Diet" is not a good recommendation. The fact that it was the diet of choice for the Royal Wedding should be a hint here ;). It's a weight loss diet, for one thing, which isn't in line with the goals of this forum. Weight loss, for those who are overweight, is a nice byproduct, but it is not the goal, here.

The Dukan Diet involves dropping both carbs and fats and maintaining a diet based mainly on lean protein for a period of time. It's similar to the HCG diet that's all the rage right now (only the HCG diet involves hormone injections - hooray!). If you read this entire thread you will come across the listed dangers of excessive protein consumption (search for "rabbit starvation").

Dukan has found a way to induce extreme caloric restriction, essentially starvation, while sparing mucle through high protein consumption, which also staves off hunger due to protein's natural satiating quality. There is nothing desirable about that scenario unless you're following the caloric model and believe food is something that needs to be restricted in order to lose weight and be healthy. Gary Taubes' "Why We Get Fat" disposes of that hypothesis quite well, if you're interested.

Bottom line: The human body needs fat! None of the benefits mentioned in this thread are going to happen without high consumption of animal fats. Any diet that recommends restriction of dietary fat from natural sources (animal and some tropical sources, not seed oils) is simply not in line with truth.

 

[Bluefyre]

Hi everyone and thanks for a great, informative thread. I've put off posting as I've wanted to catch up, but I can't seem to at this point. I've been reducing the carbs gradually for about 3 months as I'm 56 and wanted to be gentle with myself. I've read the VM, LWB and Art of CL. I am incredulous at how my body is responding. I think I am totally carb intolerant. I've struggled with extreme fatigue/exhaustion for so many years, even with improved sleep in a dark room that I can't tell you how wonderful it is to wake up in the morning, get out of bed and not long to crawl back in, going through the day by will mostly. Also chronic long-standing intestinal issues are finally resolving. A couple of people at work have made comments to the effect that I'm a "different woman", calmer, no more hyperness under pressure, stress seems to roll off of my back as well. And I'm doing EE more often, not every day but 3 or 4 times a week. I've lost a little weight and although I don't weigh myself, my clothes are definitely looser. I've had the round middle for so many years I was resigned to struggling to bend over to pull my shoes on! Thank you to everyone who has been posting their experiences and suggestions! It is SO helpful with this process. :D

 

[Laura]

I'm almost done with "Primal Body, Primal Mind" and it's almost perfect. She explains her position on veggies a bit more and it seems that they are just there to carry fat into the body mainly, though she does think that fiber is good for the colon. A couple of bad things: she references the "heartmath" people positively (the Dan Winter clones) and references "Blessed Herbs" colon cleansing products which nearly killed a few of us here... So she is clearly not on top of colon issues.

But, having said that, those are minor things. Her references are great, her explanations and style are excellent, and she brings some new things to the table that are not covered in the plethora of other books we have read. The main thing is "calorie restriction" which she explains rather differently than the folks that starve themselves. According to her, the best diet is about zero carbs, restricted protein, all the fat you want and veggies according to taste.

She's really down on vegetarians and vegans saying that they are the most messed up people she's ever had to work with in her biofeedback practice. She points out that if you want to "juice", then toss the juice out and eat the pulp since the juice is mostly sugar and water and you are throwing away all the good stuff.

Bottom line is this: the book is a MUST read so that you can know all the details of what supplements you MIGHT need for what reasons based on what experiences you have with the diet. VERY PRACTICAL stuff.

She does say that just the diet will sort you out, but some things do need a bit of supplementation for awhile to undo some serious damage.

Again: a MUST READ!!!

 

[Gawan]

Bottom line is this: the book is a MUST read so that you can know all the details of what supplements you MIGHT need for what reasons based on what experiences you have with the diet. VERY PRACTICAL stuff.

She does say that just the diet will sort you out, but some things do need a bit of supplementation for awhile to undo some serious damage.

Again: a MUST READ!!!

I skimmed today through the book and read here and there snippets, she has indeed a great style, also the formatting of the book is very good, filled wit lots of (humorous) illustrations. And at the end of the books she gives also lots of references to websites and books for different topics (i.e. digestion, paleo diet) and categorised them well (in books, articles and studies).

 

[seek10]

I'm pretty sure I went into ketosis last week when my boss offered me a piece of gum I said "Oh, am I stinky?" and she said "Yep!"

On the bad breath thing; since we're all eating more meat, one cause might be meat stuck between teeth, which causes the standard bad breath smell. Toothpicks have become 'must have' items for me.

Particularly after I eat beef, it became a must for me to brush after that to avoid smell .

 

[Meager1]

I still have the "smell" I think, even after all this time.
I know I still have a bad taste in my mouth almost constantly after a meat meal, so I`m not feeling like this is something that is gonna go away any time soon.

Drinking a little seltzer water and swishing it, seems to help, though not much.
I still feel wonderful, and have noticed that any added carbs brings on a body weakness feeling, particularly in the shoulders and the arms, so no carbs or only a few is best for me.

Otherwise all the little aches and pains I have suffered for years are gone!

I can make a fist with both hands and there is no finger pain, which is simply amazing after having that for so many years. What I have noticed though is that some things seem to be packing a bigger punch then they used to, for instance the other night I wanted to try to go to bed a little earlier so I did the EE and then took a 3 mg tab of Melatonin around 10 pm and by 10:30 I was feeling kinda nauseous and queasy in the stomach.
The Melatonin was even making me feel a little dizzy and light headed.

Then I had an odd sensation as if there was a magnet on the top of my head and it was drawing "particle's" up and out of my body, even with my eyes closed I could see these "particles" zipping up and around and being drawn to this area of pressure on the top of head.
That`s never happened after taking just 3 mg of Melatonin before..

And then while tossing and turning, I thought about what would happen if we were to become really "clean" and then lost access to healthy meat and were forced to go back to the old sort of trash again just to survive and it occurred to me that if that happened, we would all probably get very sick and might not survive it if we couldn`t adjust back to that again..and at this point I really doubt that I could, which was a scary thought.



.

 

[mcb]

Then I had an odd sensation as if there was a magnet on the top of my head and it was drawing "particle's" up and out of my body, even with my eyes closed I could see these "particles" zipping up and around and being drawn to this area of pressure on the top of head.
That`s never happened after taking just 3 mg of Melatonin before..

I think I know that sensation. :)

The more I read about the endocrine system, the less I want to experiment with hormone supplements. I am not taking any currently. Primal Body, Primal Mind and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living are, I think, the only books I have that even mention leptin. This master hormone was "overlooked" by researchers apparently because of its lack of commercial potential, and even some of the best sources we have been reading don't seem to know about it. You really should consider fixing your diet first, and try to leave the hormones to do their dance the way they want to do it, if possible.

There is not a single endocrinologist in the world, no matter how brilliant or talented, who could possibly replicate the intricate and delicate balance that is orchestrated by the interrelationships of your own innate endocrine symphony, nor is there a single “bioidentical hormone” that can be prescribed that can truly replace what the body does naturally. Anything you do to micromanage a single hormone in the body affects them all—and often in unpredictable and unanticipated ways. This is not to say that bioidentical hormone replacement is never necessary or useful, but care must be taken not to reach blindly for this option instinctively without first seeking to comprehend the underlying mechanisms and foundational interrelationships.

And then while tossing and turning, I thought about what would happen if we were to become really "clean" and then lost access to healthy meat and were forced to go back to the old sort of trash again just to survive and it occurred to me that if that happened, we would all probably get very sick and might not survive it if we couldn`t adjust back to that again..and at this point I really doubt that I could, which was a scary thought.

The thing that worries me most about eating conventionally-fattened meat is the question of what ends up in the fat? If you occasionally eat it in a restaurant, that is one thing, but if you are eating a lot of this fat then this is an important question. PBPM recommends trimming the fat when eating conventional meat, and that is the approach I have been taking. It could be dangerous to pursue a high-fat diet using fat that is heavily contaminated because it came from diseased (caused by the unnatural grain diet) animals, whether now or later.

Another point that PBPM makes is that "natural" meat is grain-fattened unless it specifically says it is not. While there might be fewer toxins in the fat (but that's not clear), the grain-feeding destroys the omega-3 fatty acids you would otherwise be getting from the meat. Just because you bought it at a "good" store and paid more for it, that doesn't mean it is truly "natural diet." The labeling must be clear that it is exclusively natural diet. I know (and have known) that not everything I buy is, but I need to eat something.