"Life Without Bread"

[Bluefyre]

Oh, I forgot to mention I have been putting coconut milk in my rooibos tea but after the information I've read here and the link to the SOTT article, I've eliminated that as well. I'll see if this completely eliminates the gouty symptoms altogether.

 

[Gawan]

FWIW, Nora Gedgaudas provides on her website also many podcasts for free, only issue is maybe that it needs itunes. So in case somebody is waiting for the book, there some things to listen available. :) She has also a podcast about the vegetarian myth.

_http://itunes.apple.com/podcast/primal-body-primal-mind-radio/id385416862


Also a lecture is available from the Wise Traditions Conference 2010 of the Weston A. Price Foundation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPo3xI8Jl4

 

[mcb]

...After all these years of reading that fat and meat cause gout, I have found that exactly the opposite is true. I am not surprised after everything I have been reading on the forum and the recommended books.

Primal Body, Primal Mind has a lot to say about hormones. Gout has been associated with thyroid problems, but Gedgaudas emphasizes that the endocrine system is interconnected and that you need to consider what is going on as a whole. You can't think about individual glands and hormones, separately, and make sense of it. It all interacts to produce the effects that you ultimately see.

I am still reading, but at this point the advice seems to be to get rid of ALL gluten, as well as anything that cross-reacts with it, and see what happens. My personal guideline, which seems to agree well with the book, is to eliminate grains & flour (and things made from it), starchy foods (including beans), and sugar. Even trace amounts of gluten can potentially be a major problem. I also avoid nightshades and limit cruciferous vegetables, cooking what I do eat well. I still have "thyroid" symptoms, and probably have more adjustments to make.

 

[Stellaria_graminea]

I read "Life without bread" a few years ago, and have been eating a (moderaty) low carb diet since.

It's really different! I thought I was healthy before of that change - no way. Probably, I have an intolerance for gluten, too. After skipping bread and the other whole-grain-stuff out of the kitchen, I get reactions when occasionally eating some.

I have also been taking magnesium, omega-3 of high quality, and multivitamins.

Still, there's a lot to improve. I have a cup of coffee each morning. I will keep that one for some more time, but I know it's not optimal.

I also eat fermented milk products, cream and butter. (No sweet milk, I never drink milk.) Seems to be OK for me (bloodtype AB). However, I haven't tested it for a prolonged time.

Lentils, beans and peanuts seems to be tolerable in small amounts, but I can't eat it every day. Saturated fats are great!

The Primal mind, primal body-book sounds interesting.

 

[Gaby]

I've been having some skin rashes flare ups, which I find peculiar. When I did the Candida protocol months ago I got these skin rashes as a die off reaction. They no never really disappeared, although it did get much better with the help of coconut oil. Over the past few days it has been getting worse though. I'm still at 5g of carbs a day (no particular reason for that, I'm just really enjoying the meat diet), nothing has changed, and I've not had anything sweet since the end of February. I'm not sure whether this could this be another die-off reaction, but if anyone has any ideas I'm all ears.

There are two things that seems to increase problems with rashes when doing this diet. First, those who are histamine sensitive and who tend to have more rashes (they are allergic) because one tends to have all kinds of fatty meats with spices. I got a rash and it typically itches when I have a meat with spices or if it was cooked in spicy fat. I thought that was actually progress, before I will have "hay fever":

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-eating-meat/

Oftentimes when people shift toward a lower-carb diet and stop fearing animal fat, they avail themselves of formerly forbidden foods. Cured meats like salami, proscuitto, hot dogs, sausages, and bacon, along with artisan aged cheeses are admittedly delicious and easy to prepare, especially for someone who isn’t used to cooking regularly. They eat handfuls of walnuts and sunflower seeds, and stock up on smoked, canned seafood like tuna, sardines, herring, and salmon. They’ll start introducing new vegetables, or perhaps more of the old ones, like tomatoes, avocados, spinach, and eggplant. Some of these foods are more questionable than others, but a case could be made for each in a Primal eating plan. Each of those foods also has the potential to trigger histamine release symptoms in those who are histamine intolerant.

If you’ve been getting the bulk of your protein from processed/cured meat, canned or smoked fish, or cheeses, or if you’ve recently started eating more of the other foods I listed, you may be histamine intolerant which would explain your hay fever symptoms. For an idea of which foods to avoid, consult this list of high-histamine foods. Do some food eliminating and let me know if my suspicions are correct. I doubt protein is the problem.

The second thing that strikes me is that it is constantly emphasized to drink enough water, not only to diminish "transition symptoms", but also to release ketone bodies through the urine, as opposed to your breath or your skin. If you make a search on google, you'll see that skin rashes are rather frequent when people get into ketosis. I think it is because the ketone bodies are being released through the skin and it irritates it in some people. I'll say that we'll just have to experiment with drinking more water and taking also the omega 3s and other supplements to see if the body gets used to it. Supplements with natural anti-histaminic properties might help: vitamin C, quercetin, bromelain, selenium, etc.

 

[Gertrudes]

Psyche and I were talking about this type of symptom yesterday and I'll defer to her to respond to it. But what I do remember is that she doesn't think it is candida die-off but rather the sluggishness of the hydrochloric acid thing in your body. I can't urge you strongly enough to read "Primal Body, Primal Mind".

Lack of hydrochloric acid could cause that? Very interesting Laura, I'll definitely look it up.
I noticed that I got Betaine Hydrochloride with pepsine instead of Hydrochloric acid. Anyone knows whether that would do it, or should I try to get hydrochloric acid? From what I have searched, some sites say that they are both the same, but I'm not sure that it is so.

I'm reading Vegetarian myth now, Primal body will surely follow!

 

[Gertrudes]

Many thanks for the info Psyche You gave me quite a few handy pointers that would have never occurred to me, they will help me dig further and study what's going on. I'll look up on histamines and skin rashes associated with ketosis.
I just thought of Candida, since they were candida related when they first appeared, and was trying to figure out what could be causing a Candida flare up.
It makes much sense though, thinking back, my rashes became worse particularly since I started eating smoked salmon.

 

[Bluefyre]

PBPM is next on my list. I will be ordering it tomorrow. I've not heard of thyroid being linked to gout before. The toe joint is quite damaged, actually almost completely frozen. I damaged that joint over 15 years ago driving with a clutch for a short time and have had occasional flare-ups since over the years. I have degenerative discs in my lower back as a result of childhood violence and was told I would just have to live with the pain, but this has also proven to be untrue. I actually have pain-free days in my lower back now. I do not eat any gluten or flour of any kind, having been vigilant for years to avoid it have even foregone buckwheat flour of late. I seem to be okay with occasional almond flour bread, but am losing my taste for that as well. I make all of my own food from scratch so that I know what I am ingesting.

 

[beetlemaniac]

Thanks Thor, I was using your handy formula, I even put it into a spreadsheet for fun. :)


I once tried supplementing salt by directly taking a half-teaspoonful (with a raw egg). Boy, did I regret that. Horrible stomach pains and profuse sweating. Felt like I was going to die. With the egg it was probably worse, the salt clumped up into one mass within the egg white, it must have triggered some kind of shock response. So now I have learned to dilute my salt in a cup of water. :P

Also, sorry if I'm just repeating, but sleep seems to be really important in letting the body become keto-adapted. Without interference from the conscious mind activity the body is probably able to start the REAL WORK of fixing up the body and setting everything back to ice-age specifications. I finally was able to get *some* sleep and that seems to have made all the difference. I think it's probably wise to sleep whenever you get the chance, during the transition period.

 

[Oxajil]

As I was searching for more info on digestion problems, I came across this:

_http://barbfeick.com/healthinformation/hcl_deficiency.htm

Hydrochloric Acid Deficiency and Eczema

In chronic eczema the severity of the condition seems to correlate with the extent of stomach hydrochloric acid ("HCl") deficiency, and decreased HCl is also associated with vitamin B group deficiency. General allergies, and specifically food allergies, are correlated with low HCl. Poor food breakdown and the "leaky gut" syndrome are associated with food allergies.

Hydrochloric Acid is a digestive acid secreted by a healthy stomach when food is eaten. It initiates the digestion of proteins, fats, and carbohydrates and aids in the absorption of several vitamins and minerals. In addition, because HCl is a strong acid, it inhibits the growth of harmful bacteria. HCl kills various bacteria from food which may pose a health hazard, inactivates the salivary amylase from the mouth, and activates pepsin, an enzyme which starts protein digestion in the stomach. HCl also denatures protein, or chemically alters the structure of protein to make protein more digestible. Acids, chemicals, heat, and radiation are various ways proteins are denatured.

When someone has a HCl Deficiency, their body is deficient in mineral salts that are used to produce HCl. You see, the good news is that a mineral like potassium not only stimulates the production of hydrochloric acid (which favors digestion) but it also contributes to a balanced pH level in the blood.

The most carefully planned diet fails to accomplish its purpose unless digestion and absorption are adequate and normal. Digestive enzymes and HCl must be produced in adequate amounts to facilitate normal digestion. Too little HCl inhibits protein digestion and the absorption of vitamin C causes the destruction of vitamin B-complex factors and prevents essential calcium, iron and other minerals from being assimilated to the extent that anemia and bone fragility may develop. A large variety of nutritional deficiencies may restrict the production of essential enzymes allowing putrefactive bacteria to multiply in tremendous amounts forming great quantities of stomach and intestinal gas. Further, a deficiency or absence of normal beneficial bacteria in the intestinal tract will allow propagation of gas-forming and disease and odor-forming bacteria.

Low stomach acid may be the result of heredity, extended use of drugs such as antacids, anti-ulcer medications (cimetidine, ranitidine and others), infection in the gut, or food allergies (especially to milk and dairy products). Drinking milk with meals stop the production of HCL. Having lemon with your meal is helpful. Doctors specializing in nutritional medicine can do several tests to determine the etiology. One of these is the comprehensive digestive and stool analysis ("CDSA").

Magnesium, Hydrochloric Acid and Digestion

Magnesium is needed to reduce histamine levels. In the book Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine, the authors note that food allergies are usually associated with low hydrochloric acid levels and poor digestion. The authors' rationale for this is that low stomach acid leaves food undigested and fermenting in the intestinal tract. This fermentation causes gas, bloating and stomach upset, the symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome. Undigested and fermented food causes the body to raise histamine levels, which produce allergic reactions. This is why people take antihistamines for allergies, to lower histamine levels.

Low stomach acid levels reduce levels of beneficial intestinal bacteria which is needed for absorption of magnesium. When lab rats are deprived of magnesium, a wide variety of studies have noted that they develop allergy like symptoms. Their ears turn red and they develop skin problems. Rats with magnesium deficiencies have increases in histamine levels. They also have raised levels of white blood cell counts. Mg deficiency has been implicated in allergies and allergic skin reaction in many studies on humans, too. Variations of allergies, skin allergies, and raised white blood cells have all been noted as features of many chronic disorders.

Supplements

There are digestive enzymes with HCL you can buy from the health food store, and there are many herbs that aid digestion. Sulfur also stimulates bile secretion and safflowers simulate HCL production.

Zinc also assists in the production of HCL.

[...]

"Mayo Clinic researchers... in the 1930s published an article that tabulated the statistics on stomach function in people of all ages. They found that 50 percent of all the people they tested over age sixty had less stomach acid produced in their stomachs than is necessary to completely digest their food. When we don't digest our food, we don't get the nutrition out of it."- Dr. Jonathan Wright

It also seems that stress can stop the production of HCL:

_http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.aspx?id=1863

More subtly, the emotions, stress level, and balance within the endocrine and nervous systems also affect digestive functioning.

[...]

Occasionally, people have increased HCl secretion with acute stress; however, usually over time, chronic stress causes HCl production to decrease.

Also interesting:

More than half the people with gallstones show decreased HCl secretion compared with gallstone-free patients. Diabetics have lower secretion, as do people with eczema, psoriasis, seborrheic dermatitis, vitiligo, and tooth and periodontal disease. With low stomach acid levels, there can be an increase in bacteria, yeasts, and parasites growing in the intestines.

 

[Laura]

PBPM is next on my list. I will be ordering it tomorrow. I've not heard of thyroid being linked to gout before. The toe joint is quite damaged, actually almost completely frozen. I damaged that joint over 15 years ago driving with a clutch for a short time and have had occasional flare-ups since over the years. I have degenerative discs in my lower back as a result of childhood violence and was told I would just have to live with the pain, but this has also proven to be untrue. I actually have pain-free days in my lower back now. I do not eat any gluten or flour of any kind, having been vigilant for years to avoid it have even foregone buckwheat flour of late. I seem to be okay with occasional almond flour bread, but am losing my taste for that as well. I make all of my own food from scratch so that I know what I am ingesting.

You should look into the medical taping technique we've talked about on the forum and using some DMSO cream. I actually think that my low back deterioration that existed for many years has begun to reverse.

 

[Laura]

As I was searching for more info on digestion problems, I came across this:

_http://barbfeick.com/healthinformation/hcl_deficiency.htm

Hydrochloric Acid Deficiency and Eczema

In chronic eczema the severity of the condition seems to correlate with the extent of stomach hydrochloric acid ("HCl") deficiency, and decreased HCl is also associated with vitamin B group deficiency. General allergies, and specifically food allergies, are correlated with low HCl. Poor food breakdown and the "leaky gut" syndrome are associated with food allergies.

Yes, that was what I was thinking of. I think it is mentioned in PBPM too. As she points out, everybody who eats gluten has zonulin causing leaky gut. EVERYBODY. But people's reactions and symptoms differ. It can be reactive and noticeable in some way, or silent, but deadly.

Healing the gut takes at least a year if you concentrate on it and I'm thinking that we have not given this step enough emphasis and that is why some of you are having such unpleasant problems.

 

[Infiniteness]

Well I have decided to cut down to the 72g carb mark, after eliminating all the cereals from my diet. I am steadily increasing the meat and fat consumption. Most definitely something is happening, I feel even more lethargic, fuzzy, and spacey after eating a high fat meal. Though I have also noticed that my brain fog and anxiety have increased even more. Another thing that I noted is that Ive been having some minor joint pain and muscle cramping. It also could be possible that I am having a candida die off, I wouldn't be surprised after eating a high carb diet for most of my life.

The only thing that had me a little concerned was that today, after eating pork chops cooked in ghee. It felt like I had some very minor facial numbness. After about two hours it went away, I am not sure whether the transition is the cause, it could be caused by my existing nerve damage or even by my anxiety.

Other then that I am OK, I have also noticed that I am no longer really craving carbs, but fat. Then again maybe I am mistaking the urge for fats as for carbs.

I have started reading "Life Without Bread".

 

[Gertrudes]

I am steadily increasing the meat and fat consumption. Most definitely something is happening, I feel even more lethargic, fuzzy, and spacey after eating a high fat meal. Though I have also noticed that my brain fog and anxiety have increased even more. Another thing that I noted is that Ive been having some minor joint pain and muscle cramping. It also could be possible that I am having a candida die off, I wouldn't be surprised after eating a high carb diet for most of my life.

You may need to start taking digestive enzymes with hydrochloric acid, preferably soon if you're having such symptoms. Also cleaning your liver is important to break down the fat. The suggish liver thread will have more information. After a lifetime of eating carbs and gluten and god knows what else our digestive systems are slow, damaged, and need some help and time to heal and adapt.
I would take it slowly, include the digestive enzymes and keep monitoring my reactions to what I eat. If too overwhelmed, you may need to up the carbs, and then gradually lower them once again. Perhaps others will have more input.

The fatigue and muscle cramps seem to be part of the adaptation to the low carb diet. While you're switching fuel from carbs to fat, you are still burning carbs although not getting enough of them, which causes so much fatigue. It can take a couple of weeks to make a transition. You can relieve muscle cramps by taking L-carnitine and/or magnesium (you may need to take calcium with that as well if the condition doesn't improve).

 

[Laura]

Well I have decided to cut down to the 72g carb mark, after eliminating all the cereals from my diet. I am steadily increasing the meat and fat consumption. Most definitely something is happening, I feel even more lethargic, fuzzy, and spacey after eating a high fat meal. Though I have also noticed that my brain fog and anxiety have increased even more. Another thing that I noted is that Ive been having some minor joint pain and muscle cramping. It also could be possible that I am having a candida die off, I wouldn't be surprised after eating a high carb diet for most of my life.

As we have said, the first things to eliminate are gluten containing foods and then dairy. This should be accompanied by supplementing to heal the gut: L-glutamine mainly, and fish oils. That is step one and you should do that over a month or so before attempting to start cutting down on carbs globally.

I have started reading "Life Without Bread".

This should have been done even while you were cutting out gluten and dairy to prepare you for an intelligent and informed transition.