Little "I's, that within which "moves" - and that which does not

[Psalehesost]

Levels of functioning, focus and attention - and clarity - which I mistook for levels of consciousness.

Anart did mention brain things at the end of her first note; obviously there's some difference between 1st Density and us for the most part sleeping humans.

One could perhaps see it as analogous to the geometry of different numbers of dimensions, where something of n dimensions is as zero compared to something where another dimension has been added.

So compared to a conscious 3D lifeform, everything below (including us - for my part, at least - sleeping 3Ders) has zero consciousness, and there is no meaning in calling what something "below" has consciousness. Similarly, a conscious 3D human probably could be said to have zero consciousness compared to an evolved 4D being, and so on.

EDIT: Correction.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Can any generalizations be made about any future potentials resulting from different illusions? I've seen individuals brought to complete spiritual bankruptcy through video gaming, and begin to wake to the terror of the situation.
I've seen individuals become convinced that they are awake through esoteric studies, and become even more comfortable in their slumber.
In other words, whether these lessons lead to a possibility of waking from illusion, or a deeper trap, depends on who you are and what you see, OSIT.

True, and a good addition to this discussion. But the point I had in mind was more that it seems that even after beginning to wake up to the terror of one's situation, one is still equally mechanical and unconscious until one has gone all the way. If you picture that first machine in the example as being the second in its future, post-initial-bankruptcy, then even knowing it is asleep, they are still equal in (un)consciousness unless a real fusion has taken place.

Re:
But the point I had in mind was more that it seems that even after beginning to wake up to the terror of one's situation, one is still equally mechanical and unconscious until one has gone all the way

Not equally mechanical, the moments of presence should become more frequent, but for this to happen you have to pay with efforts/preparations.
As to what happens when 'one goes all the way' I have absolutely no idea, have you ?

 

[nwigal]

Levels of functioning, focus and attention - and clarity - which I mistook for levels of consciousness.

Anart did mention brain things at the end of her first note; obviously there's some difference between 1st Density and us for the most part sleeping humans.

One could perhaps see it as analogous to the geometry of different numbers of dimensions, where something of n dimensions is as zero compared to something where another dimension has been added.

So compared to a conscious 3D lifeform, everything below (including us - for my part, at least - sleeping 3Ders) has zero consciousness, and there is no meaning in calling what something "below" has consciousness. Similarly, a conscious 3D human probably could be said to have zero consciousness compared to an evolved 4D being, and so on.

EDIT: Correction.

Maybe not zero consciousness, but zero perception of consciousness, from a relative point of view?

 

[nwigal]

Can any generalizations be made about any future potentials resulting from different illusions? I've seen individuals brought to complete spiritual bankruptcy through video gaming, and begin to wake to the terror of the situation.
I've seen individuals become convinced that they are awake through esoteric studies, and become even more comfortable in their slumber.
In other words, whether these lessons lead to a possibility of waking from illusion, or a deeper trap, depends on who you are and what you see, OSIT.

True, and a good addition to this discussion. But the point I had in mind was more that it seems that even after beginning to wake up to the terror of one's situation, one is still equally mechanical and unconscious until one has gone all the way. If you picture that first machine in the example as being the second in its future, post-initial-bankruptcy, then even knowing it is asleep, they are still equal in (un)consciousness unless a real fusion has taken place.

Re:
But the point I had in mind was more that it seems that even after beginning to wake up to the terror of one's situation, one is still equally mechanical and unconscious until one has gone all the way

Not equally mechanical, the moments of presence should become more frequent, but for this to happen you have to pay with efforts/preparations.

That sounds like consciously working to increase frequency resonance vibration.

As to what happens when 'one goes all the way' I have absolutely no idea, have you ?

Maybe you've gone far enough when you end up where you started...

[/quote]

 

[Psalehesost]

Perhaps it would help you to re-read the Gnosis trilogy [...]

I have actually never read it, unlike other recommended esoteric sources. (perhaps this explains a thing or two) Anyhow - it having been demonstrated that it would explain a lot I don't grasp - it's about time to do something about this. So I will.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

The idea I've had of consciousness before - which was, as I pointed out, not even present in the thought in the beginning of the thread - was that level of consciousness is a sliding scale, though highly nonlinear - this seems a relatively common misconception, I think. Rather, until after something Real is first fused consciousness is binary - not present at all until one gets a bit of it.

There's also this, from ISOTM:

AT ONE of the following lectures G. returned to the question of consciousness.

"Neither the psychical nor the physical functions of man can be understood," he said, "unless the fact has been grasped that they can both work in different states of consciousness.

"In all there are four states of consciousness possible for man" (he emphasized the
word "man"), "But ordinary man, that is, man number one, number two, and number
three, lives in the two lowest states of consciousness only. The two higher states of
consciousness are inaccessible to him, and although he may have flashes of these
states, he is unable to understand them and he judges them from the point of view of
those states in which it is usual for him to be.

"The two usual, that is, the lowest, states of consciousness are first, sleep, in other
words a passive state in which man spends a third and very often a half of his life. And
second, the state in which men spend the other part of their lives, in which they walk
the streets, write books, talk on lofty subjects, take part in politics, kill one another,
which they regard as active and call 'clear consciousness' or the 'waking state of
consciousness.' The term 'clear consciousness' or 'waking state of consciousness'
seems to have been given in jest, especially when you realize what clear
consciousness ought in reality to be and what the state in which man lives and acts
really is.

"The third state of consciousness is self-remembering or self-consciousness or
consciousness of one's being. It is usual to consider that we have this state of
consciousness or that we can have it if we want it. Our science and philosophy have
overlooked the fact that we do not possess this state of consciousness and that we
cannot create it in ourselves by desire or decision alone.

"The fourth state of consciousness is called the objective state of consciousness. In
this state a man can see things as they are. Flashes of this state of consciousness also
occur in man. In the religions of all nations there are indications of the possibility of a
state of consciousness of this kind which is called 'enlightenment' and various other
names but which cannot be described in words. But the only right way to objective
consciousness is through the development of self-consciousness. If an ordinary man is
artificially brought into a state of objective consciousness and afterwards brought back
to his usual state he will remember nothing and he will think that for a time he had lost
consciousness. But in the state of self-consciousness a man can have Hashes of
objective consciousness and remember them.

"The fourth state of consciousness in man means an altogether different state of
being; it is the result of inner growth and of long and difficult work on oneself.

"But the third state of consciousness constitutes the natural right of man as he is,
and if man does not possess it, it is only because of the wrong conditions of his life. It
can be said without any exaggeration that at the present time the third state of
consciousness occurs in man only in the form of very rare flashes and that it can be
made more or less permanent in him only by means of special training.

"For most people, even for educated and thinking people, the chief obstacle in the
way of acquiring self-consciousness consists in the fact that they think they possess it,
that is, that they possess self-consciousness and everything connected with it;
individuality in the sense of a permanent and unchangeable I, will, ability to do, and
so on. It is evident that a man will not be interested if you tell him that he can acquire
by long and difficult work something which, in his opinion, he already has. On the
contrary he will think either that you are mad or that you want to deceive him with a
view to personal gain.

"The two higher states of consciousness—'self-consciousness' and 'objective
consciousness'—are connected with the functioning of the higher centers in man.
"In addition to those centers of which we have so far spoken there are two other
centers in man, the 'higher emotional' and the 'higher thinking.' These centers are in
us; they are fully developed and are working all the time, but their work fails to reach
our ordinary consciousness. The cause of this lies in the special properties of our so­
called 'clear consciousness.'

{etc. the whole chapter (#8) is worth reading}

I think there are qualitatively different kinds of consciousness. E.g. the "consciousness" of matter that Lethbridge describes in the excerpt Laura quoted, animal and plant "consciousness", normal human waking "consciousness" (our mechanical nature).

From the Cass Glossary:

So everything is really a form of consciousness, from its formless higher transcendental aspects to its lower derivatives that take an innumerable number of different forms. Thus all is consciousness, from the unconditioned to the conditioned, from the infinite to the finite, from the whole to the part, from the macro to the micro, from Bohm's explicate order (actuality--- derivatives of consciousness) to his implicate order (potentiality--- integration of consciousness). Thus consciousness is that which connects All. All is connected with consciousness. All is consciousness.

The problem with how consciousness is ordinarily viewed is that those who study consciousness fail to see that there are different LEVELS of consciousness. [i.e. qualitatively different types of consciousness.] This failure to see this important point, the assumption that we already "possess" consciousness and that it is "free," allows for much cointelpro disinformation relating to this subject resulting in a mixing of levels which generates endless noise and "gnashing of teeth" (also see "food for the moon" and Michael Toppers views on "light eaters" and 'Negative Consciousness").

Mouravieff states in his book GNOSIS Vol. I p.13:

"We do not possess Consciousness. What we call consciousness is only one of its derivatives, but it is all that is accessible to man as he is born of woman.

"All in all there are four levels of consciousness. Consciousness called----'Absolute'-----and it's three DERIVATIVES:

1) Absolute Consciousness
2) Consciousness of the real 'I'
3) Waking consciousness
4) Subconsciousness

"Starting from the bottom we have in the first instance subconsciousness. This is the twilight consciousness which we have for example during sleep, where it controls the organism without being interrupted. This subconscious direction of certain functions of our bodies continues during the waking state.

"The domain of subconsciousness is vast and very little about it has been studied. We sometimes treat it as if everything that does not enter waking consciousness is in the subconscious. We not only attribute the reflexes and the general functions of instinctive life to it, which is correct, but also the lightning ideas which come from higher spheres and which we call by vague terms such as: intuition, sixth sense, etc., which is erroneous. The reason is that we consider waking consciousness, clear consciousness as it is sometimes called, to be the peak of consciousness.

"Esoteric science however distinguishes two levels of consciousness higher than waking consciousness. We do not have these by right of birth, nor do we acquire them by normal education or instruction. But they can be reached as a result of special efforts properly directed.

"The first higher level is that of SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS: alternatively called the 'consciousness of the real 'I'. Above that, there is the level of CONSCIOUSNESS---in the full sense of the word.

"From bottom to top we can define the four levels in other terms, as follows:

4) Subconsciousness is the twilight of the body. It's force does not depend on the cultural level of the individual. We often find that elementary or primitive beings have a much stronger consciousness of their bodies then intellectuals.

3) Waking consciousness is the daytime consciousness of the personality. Putting pathological cases aside, its scope and its amplitude develop with the cultural development of the individual. It is the SUBJECTIVE consciousness of 'I.'

2) Consciousness of the real 'I' is the consciousness of the INDIVIDUALITY, otherwise described as objective consciousness of the individual 'I'.

1) TRUE Consciousness is absolute consciousness: consciousness of the Absolute.

 

[Psalehesost]

I'm seeing that there are huge gaps in my knowledge; I don't really know any more than others from whom "There's a lot of speculation that goes on and a lot of misunderstanding". So after this post, I'll quit posting on things regarding the theory of the system of knowledge here for a while and dedicate myself to reading and digging deeper into my messy machine - then perhaps I'll be able to improve my accuracy a bit.

Having now spent a week doing this, I think it's time to post. First, thanks to anart (also others for their input) for starting this process.

Don't know how to express well what has been seen in myself having felt my mechanicality with more of my "whole mass". Lots of garbage, in short, and many, many lies to the "self" - many left, no doubt some presently active. "I" is the worst "plausible lie" of them all!

All that can be hoped for, though there is nothing Real active in "me" to hope for anything, is that whatever influences are acting through "me" will direct "me" to make further efforts toward evolution. Sadly, this is not really felt - only very brief and toned-down flashes of "the horror of the situation". Buffering still too thick.

There is more that has been realized, though this will go in the appropriate thread.