Lost Christianity - Jacob Needleman

[Laura]

In a nutshell, I think all the above, this searching for the soul as described in the third method of attention and within those ten or so pages, is another way of thinking about the singular 'I' one is wanting to fuse?

Yes, I agree. Some of what Sylvan says is subtle, and his terminology is different, but I find it fascinating that he comes to many of the same things that the Cs have lead us to via hints and suggestions and encouragement.

I think that this is just a different way of talking about what we already understand as the normal, daily Work. It's just being presented from a traditional christian perspective. Is that right?

Yes. And more. It's as though the very things the Cs have said about religion, our ancient ancestors, our status before the "Fall," and so on, are all wrapped up in there. In a sense, it is like another line of confirmation that makes a connection that relieves a certain tension within.

If so, I am surprised that this way of talking about the Work has had the impact on me that it has. Of course, it has been awhile since my first exposure and approach to this Work and my initial reactions were all intellectual and ego-based; so a lot of 'dumping' had to be done just to get me into a more receptive frame of mind - to prepare me, so to speak, to understand the Work properly. Does that make sense? If so, no time spent in this preparation was wasted, osit, it was just a necessary prerequisite in my case.

Exactly. I had to go through years of dumping. You've moved pretty fast in comparison!

I think that the reason it has such an impact is because it brings us back full circle, in a sense, to something so ancient, so deep and real, that the heart "sings" a bit to know that the way we have been reassembling things is obviously on the right track. We know things, via the Cs, that some of the other sources do not know, and our addition of a bit of science to the "recipe" fortifies it and gives true food to the intellect so that the mind and soul can begin to work in tandem instead of in opposition.

Reading this book has been time well spent (invested) and I hope everyone here gets a chance to read it too. :)

Yes. And his additional descriptions of some praxis are very helpful. For example, he notes that we are not required to BE in a "higher state" at all times, but it is necessary to know what state we are in at any given time!

 

[Possibility of Being]

For me, Lost Christianity is one of those books that came in a very right moment; I'm reading it with passion and curiosity, and with a feeling of finding something that I have lost long ago and been seeking since then even though I wasn't aware of it most of the time. It puts so many puzzles in place, pieces that have stuck somehow to me from others' writings like for example Maurice Nicoll in his The New Man book or Madame de Salzmann, not to mention the obvious references and similarities with what we know from C's /Laura, Gurdjieff, etc... Reading and assimilating this book is this kind of journey you want to be fully present in and would wish it never ends.

 

[Buddy]

Laura, thanks for that response. I feel relieved that I'm still 'good to go', as it were.

Yes. And his additional descriptions of some praxis are very helpful. For example, he notes that we are not required to BE in a "higher state" at all times, but it is necessary to know what state we are in at any given time!

I understand. This idea is also expressed in Sufi material. The idea of knowing and attending to your actual state at a given moment reminds me of a story that was told of a Sufi and some of his followers who, responding to an invitation, traveled a very long way to a rich man's house to visit and share 'prayer and the Teaching'. Upon arrival, the Host ushered the Sufi and his companions into a separate room and began to prepare for meditations and such.

Well, one of the Sufi's disciples was a bit annoyed and said to the Host "I would rather be on the floor with your foot to my head than spend another minute in prayer. Man, give us something to eat!"

Traditional Christianity is like that today. Little or no 'food', so people are spiritually starving while sitting right there in their churches and places like that! We need to attend to all our parts and not allow any part of us to go without what is truly needed, osit. Needleman's book definitly has some substance (food for the soul) to it.

 

[theos]

I'm still making my way through this book. I find myself going back and re-reading what I just read wanting to be sure that I don't miss what it being conveyed. This makes for slower reading, but I want to make sure I grasp the information as best as I can. This method also makes me really aware of how easily my mind can wander at times.

And in my reading I right behind some of the previews that are being given. The quotes really stir my curiosity and urge me on.

 

[Bo]

I ordered this a week ago and I get a message today that they are sorry and that it isn't available anymore...

did you guys buy it from Amazon?

 

[Gawan]

I ordered this a week ago and I get a message today that they are sorry and that it isn't available anymore...

did you guys buy it from Amazon?

Yes I did, from my country selection and it is on it's way (but now on the amazon site stands also: available in 1-4 weeks). Have you checked out the used ones yet?

 

[Laura]

I have a scanned pdf for those of you who can't get it right away. Send me a PM with preferred email for receiving it.

 

[Gimpy]

I ordered this a week ago and I get a message today that they are sorry and that it isn't available anymore...

did you guys buy it from Amazon?

I ordered mine March 31st from Amazon, and it hasn't shipped yet, it says it will be shipped April 12-14. I'll keep an eye on it. I guess we all made a run on it and they ran out?

 

[Johnno]

Just a quick 2 cents.

What strikes me about the book, is a lot of it is just plain common sense. That really struck me last night when I was reading a section on the "mumbo jumbo" and "mystery" around occultism and mysticism.

Just thought of another. The Catholic priests who Needleman was extensively quoting or sourcing were just that and held no elated position in the hierarchy.

 

[Laura]

Did you mean "elevated", Johnno?

 

[Johnno]

Did you mean "elevated", Johnno?

Yes I did, it was one of those typos which was an actual word.

 

[JonnyRadar]

Fwiw, this was just posted to the GI Gurdjieff page on Facebook - Jacob Needleman's address for the bookstore "Book Passage" on his book, "What is God?"

It's 1hr 13mins long... I'm about 20 minutes into it, but even at this point it's worth sharing, just to hear the man speak of his experiences.

_http://fora.tv/2010/01/11/What_Is_God_Jacob_Needleman#fullprogram

 

[Tigersoap]

I have nearly finished reading it.
I don't know if I understand it all but for the moment, what strikes me is how it reminds me that I need to be humble and work on knowing myself at every moment without looking for special experiences that would confirm that I am on the right track because it is where we fall, believing our own lies.
That even if it's a difficult task, anyone can do it or at least try and try again.

Thanks for sharing this book !

 

[JonnyRadar]

I have nearly finished reading it.
I don't know if I understand it all but for the moment, what strikes me is how it reminds me that I need to be humble and work on knowing myself at every moment without looking for special experiences that would confirm that I am on the right track because it is where we fall, believing our own lies.
That even if it's a difficult task, anyone can do it or at least try and try again.

Thanks for sharing this book !

I second that. It's an amazing book, full of direct, clear language. One thing that strikes me as I read through it is that as we approach the state of finding ourselves, some things about the process can be spoken, and some cannot. It's like certain concepts require us to describe them as best we can, and then finish with a "well you've just gotta experience it for yourself." But Needleman's writing rings a chord deep within me, the way he speaks and approaches questioning is refreshing.

I have had many "aha!" moments with this book so far. Highly recommended for everyone.

 

[Windmill knight]

I have nearly finished reading it.
I don't know if I understand it all but for the moment, what strikes me is how it reminds me that I need to be humble and work on knowing myself at every moment without looking for special experiences that would confirm that I am on the right track because it is where we fall, believing our own lies.

On the brighter side, if we do not have special experiences, that doesn't mean we are not on the right track! Which is encouraging. Sometimes you just need to carry water and chop wood.

I am half the way through the book and I find it fascinating. I feel that if I hadn't read the esoteric books recommended by the forum I wouldn't understand much, but because all that material (mostly Gurdjieff, Mouravieff and Illion), many connections are being made in my mind. There's lots to digest so probably a second reading would be a good idea (at least for me).

I too am grateful that this was shared.