Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

Palinurus

The Living Force
After doing some research I learned that the quarrel with the BBC concerns a rather minor issue around two photographs of a smoke signal allegedly from a possible BUK-missile which were published shortly after the MH17 incident. Later on they were called fakes.

Yana Yerlashova accuses the BBC of tinkering with the video material she produced about the photographer Pavel Aleynikov and the location from where the photos were taken.

Apart of the above mentioned video an older (May 21, 2015) overview of this issue can be found here:
Eight issues with the “fake photo ” claim of Max van der Werff | What happened to flight MH17?

Their joint kickstarter fundraiser has reached over half of its target.


I also found a fairly recent interview (September 28, 2018) with Max van der Werff here:
Interview of Max van der Werff about MH17 crash | Donbass Insider

Interview of Max van der Werff about MH17 crash

28/09/2018

For all the people who follow the MH17 case, Max van der Werff is not an stranger. After spending thousands of hours of investigation on the crash of the Malaysian airline, Max has become an expert on this case.

His blog, ironically called ‘Kremlin troll‘, is really a gold mine, containing a lot of useful information about what happened to the MH17, the available information, and what are the problems with the official investigation.

Recently, he gave an interview for the Philippine television about the status of the investigation, how he works on this case, what pushed him to investigate on the MH17, his doubts about the conclusion of the JIT, and how he hopes this case will end.

Watch the full interview in English (you can skip the first three minutes which are in Filipino):

Video ca. 42 min.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source: Kabinet sluit MH17-stap tegen Oekraïne niet uit [Dutch only]

DeepLTranslator said:
Cabinet does not exclude MH17 step against Ukraine

May 2nd 14:25

The Cabinet still does not rule out action against Ukraine in the aftermath of the MH17 disaster. But there was and is no "convincing legal evidence" to successfully hold the country accountable for not completely closing its airspace before or on 17 July 2014.

Minister Stef Blok (Foreign Affairs) reports this to the Lower House of Parliament. He emphasizes that fear of limitation is not necessary, because international law does not provide for a specific limitation period.

At the request of the House of Representatives, Blok now provides insight into the Cabinet's decision not to hold Ukraine liable at this time. But the Cabinet does not want to disclose too much. After all, that would make it clear how a counter defense could successfully be conducted in the event of a possible liability claim, according to the Minister.

For a successful liability claim, it is necessary that Ukraine knew, or should have known, that the Russian BUK launcher, used to bring down flight MH17, was present on its territory. This is not clear.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
The saga continues... Previous posts here, here and here.

Source: Russian trolls blamed Ukraine for MH17 in 65,000 tweets after disaster: report

Russian trolls blamed Ukraine for MH17 in 65,000 tweets after disaster: report

By Janene Pieters on May 13, 2019 - 08:29

In the two days after flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine, a Russian troll factory posted over 65 thousand tweets blaming Ukraine for the disaster, De Groene Amsterdammer reports [Dutch only] after analyzing 9 million tweets posted by a St Petersburg based troll factory called the Internet Research Agency.

According to the magazine, an organized campaign was launched after MH17 was shot down. The Internet Research Agency played a role in this, as did pro-Russia media who circulated theories that 'proved' Russia innocent in the disaster.

Immediately after the disaster, the factory posted 40,931 tweets using hashtags like #Kievshotboeingdown and #KievProvocation, according to the magazine. The next day another 24,844 such tweets were posted. According to De Groene Amsterdammer, the campaign lasted less than 24 hours. After July 19th, 2014, the Internet Research Agency still tweeted about MH17, but much less actively and often than during the operation.

De Groene Amsterdammer reported last year that Russian trolls focussed on MH17 after the disaster, but the scale of the operation was unclear until now.

Flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17th, 2014. All 298 people on board, including 196 Dutch, were killed. Investigation by the Dutch Safety Board and the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) so far revealed that the Malaysian Airlines flight was shot down by a BUK missile system from the 53rd Anti-aircraft Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, fired from a field in Ukraine that was under the control of pro-Russian separatists at the time.

The JIT tracked a convoy of nearly 50 military vehicles, including the BUK that shot down MH17, from a 53rd Brigade parking area in Kursk to the border of Ukraine between June 23rd and 25th, 2014 - a few weeks before MH17 was shot down. Australia and the Netherlands officially held Russia accountable for its role in the MH17 disaster - providing the missile that shot down the plane - in May last year.

In September Russia held a press conference in which the country said that the BUK missile was indeed made in Russia, but was in Ukrainian hands at the time of the disaster. Russia has been pointing the finger to Ukraine since the disaster happened. In October the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it is willing to discuss MH17 liability with the Netherlands, "partly with the goal of looking professionally at the responsibility of Ukraine". The first meetings happened in March.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source: MH17 survivors shocked by Dutch nationalist’s crash conspiracy theories

MH17 survivors shocked by Dutch nationalist’s crash conspiracy theories

By Janene Pieters on May 24, 2019 - 09:34


Thierry Baudet. (Photo: DWDD/Wikimedia Commons)


The relatives of the victims killed in the MH17 disaster were shocked by statements made by FvD [Forum for Democracy] leader Thierry Baudet in his debate with VVD leader Mark Rutte on Wednesday. Baudet questioned the independence of the Joint Investigation Team's investigation into the downing of the plane. He also said that Ukraine may be behind the attack.

"I have my doubts about the investigation by the JIT. Ukraine is also one of the possible perpetrators of this attack." Baudet said. Almost every time the JIT published some of its findings, Russia quickly responded by questioning the independence of the investigation and pointing the finger to Ukraine. According to Baudet, it is up to the judge to decide who was responsible for the MH17 disaster, and not to politicians to anticipate a verdict and blame Russia.

These statements shocked Stichting Vliegramp MH17, the foundation set up to support the relatives of the MH17 victims. "To be honest, I thought they were scandalous. Mr. Baudet is a representative of the people and apparently excludes a group of many thousands of relatives", Piet Ploeg of the foundation said to RTL Nieuws. "He certainly has not supported us with his story. He said things that are incorrect, without any knowledge about the things he is saying. And what he has done with his comments about the Joint Investigation Team is that he in fact discredited the independence of the JIT."

"We also know that the results presented so far by the JIT enjoy worldwide support. What Mr. Baudet does is soiling his own nest. He makes the Netherlands unbelievable and that does not suit him a s chairman of a large party", Ploeg said.

Flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17th, 2014. All 298 people on board, including 196 Dutch, were killed. Investigation by the Dutch Safety Board and the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) so far revealed that the Malaysian Airlines flight was shot down by a BUK missile system from the 53rd Anti-aircraft Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, fired from a field in Ukraine that was under the control of pro-Russian separatists at the time.

The JIT tracked a convoy of nearly 50 military vehicles, including the BUK that shot down MH17, from a 53rd Brigade parking area in Kursk to the border of Ukraine between June 23rd and 25th, 2014 - a few weeks before MH17 was shot down. Australia and the Netherlands officially held Russia accountable for its role in the MH17 disaster - providing the missile that shot down the plane - in May last year.

In September Russia held a press conference in which the country said that the BUK missile was indeed made in Russia, but was in Ukrainian hands at the time of the disaster. Russia has been pointing the finger to Ukraine since the disaster happened. In October the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it is willing to discuss MH17 liability with the Netherlands, "partly with the goal of looking professionally at the responsibility of Ukraine". The first meetings happened in March.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Source: Malaysian PM doubts Russia's involvement in MH17; NL wants explanation

Malaysian PM doubts Russia's involvement in MH17; NL wants explanation

By Janene Pieters on May 31, 2019 - 16:10

Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammad expressed doubts about Russia's involvement in the downing of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014. The Netherlands asked Malaysia for an explanation, RTL Nieuws reports (Dutch only).

Speaking to news agency Bernama, Mohammad said that he supports the conclusions of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) up to the point in the investigation that showed that the rocket that shot down the Malaysian Airlines plane was of Russian origin. He has doubts about whether it was Russia who fired the projectile. "I do not think that such a disciplined party is responsible for launching the rocket", Mohammad said. "They accuse Russia, but where is he evidence?" he said. "We know that the rocket is of a Russian type, but it can also be made in Ukraine."

Flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17th, 2014. All 298 people on board, including 196 Dutch, were killed. Investigation by the Dutch Safety Board and the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) so far revealed that the Malaysian Airlines flight was shot down by a BUK missile system from the 53rd Anti-aircraft Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, fired from a field in Ukraine that was under the control of pro-Russian separatists at the time.

It is important to note that the JIT never actually said that it was Russia who fired the missile. The Netherlands and Australia officially held Russia accountable for its role in the disaster - providing the missile that shot down the plane, not shooting down the plane. Russia also held a press conference saying that the missile was made in Russia, but was in Ukrainian hands at the time of the disaster.

"We have taken note of the statements made by the Malaysian Prime Minister", the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said to RTL Nieuws. The Ministry added that "Malaysia has always fully supported the findings, both bilaterally and as part of the JIT."
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Archiving the SOTT coverage of the above (via Free Malaysia Today Sat, 01 Jun 2019 09:49 UTC)
Malaysia demands actual evidence proving Russia shot down MH17 -- Sott.net

One of the organizations of relatives has sent a letter of protest to the PM of Malaysia (Dutch only):
Nabestaanden MH17 woedend op premier Maleisië

DeepLTranslator said:
Survivors MH17 furious with Prime Minister Malaysia

By Paul Eldering one hour ago

AMSTERDAM - Dutch MH17 survivors are outraged at Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammed of Malaysia. He expressed his skepticism about the possible blame of Russia for the mass murder almost five years ago.

Then the Malaysian flight, on its way from Schiphol to Kuala Lumpur, was shot out of the sky without warning over the war zone of Eastern Ukraine. All 298 occupants were killed.

The international investigation team JIT, of which the Netherlands and Malaysia are a part, has clearly established that the BUK rocket, which shot down the Boeing 777, originated from Russia. The projectile was transported from there to the Ukrainian firing site, which was then in the hands of pro-Russian separatists. The JIT also demonstrated that the used BUK installation returned to Russia after the attack.

"It is unbelievable that a high-ranking Malaysian politician, who, like the Netherlands, has been hit hard with victims, should make such a remark, while the criminal case is still to begin. That smacks of a political conflict of interest, unworthy of a prime minister", says Sander van Luik of the truth-finding working group, to which about twenty MH17 families are affiliated. Today, this working group sent a letter of protest to the Malaysian ambassador in the Netherlands.

Speculation

According to him, Malaysia is hitting itself on the head with this kind of bad remarks. "We leave the question of guilt to the judge, while the Public Prosecutor's Office is busy identifying the perpetrators. Any speculation in this regard is inappropriate, a slap in the face for all next of kin and it's also an affront to their own victims", says Van Luik.

Again according to him, there is clear evidence that Russia is trying to cover itself on all sides and is constantly frustrating the investigation with lies and deceit. "This is a violation of the UN resolution, which calls on all nations to be fully transparent and to cooperate 100% in the criminal investigation."

Chairman Piet Ploeg of the Vliegramp MH17 foundation fully agrees with him. "We are also annoyed by Dutch politicians like Thierry Baudet, who, if necessary, want to sow doubt and confusion publicly. Scandalous. Just shut up over this very sensitive matter, if you don't know about it. We really don't need the pedantry of wiseacres," he says.

OM [Public Prosecutor]

On 17 July this year, the five-year commemoration of the mass murder of innocent air passengers and crew members will take place at the national MH17 monument in Vijfhuizen, close to Schiphol Airport. "Many went on holiday or on family visits. It remains difficult for the next of kin to digest that they were killed without pardon. The day before the commemoration we will therefore hold a symposium to review all the facts", says Ploeg.

He hopes and expects that the Public Prosecution Service will prosecute the perpetrators before the end of the year, if there is enough evidence. The trial will take place in the court at Schiphol Airport. The preparations are in full swing, possibly the case will be filed in 2020. The Public Prosecution does not want to confirm this.

The Dutch government has also requested clarification from Malaysia.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
 

Voyageur

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Archiving another SOTT piece on the PM of Malaysia (from Tyler Durden Zero Hedge Sat, 01 Jun 2019; with video clip ca. 4¾ min.):

Malaysian Prime Minister: "No Evidence" Russia Shot Down MH17 -- Sott.net
Indeed:

"...Mahathir further slammed the decision to exclude Malaysian investigators from the black box examination: "We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reason, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened," he said.

"We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it and the idea was to find out how this happened but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians.
[...]
He concluded that, "This is not a neutral kind of examination" - again questioning the basis on which suspicions of pro-Kiev forces appeared to have been superficially ruled out from the start.

"I don't think a very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile," he added, according to Australia's ABC.""
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Recent reports claim that documents from 2014 have surfaced containing evidence of Russian presence near the border with Donbass including BUK missile squad.

Source (in Dutch):
MH17: documenten opgedoken over Buk-transport

Google Translate

Google Translate said:
MH17: documents surfaced about Buk transport

Today, 9:01 AM
Updated Today, 10:06 AM

MOSCOW - The Russian newspaper Novaja Gazeta holds documents that deal with the transport of the Buk rocket that took down flight MH17 in July 2014. The documents show that more than 170 troops from the anti-aircraft unit were in the Ukrainian border region.

Two days before the plane was shot from the sky on the way from Schiphol to Kuala Lumpur, the troops were given dry rations for five days.

"The documents confirm that the Buk installation was transported to the Ukrainian border in Russia, but there is no evidence of transport in Ukraine itself," says NOS correspondent David Jan Godfroid. It is therefore not yet proven with these documents that flight MH17 was shot out of the air by this installation.

As a result of the disaster, all 298 passengers were killed, including 193 Dutch people. The international research team JIT has already established that the pro-Russian separatists had access to the anti-aircraft installation, which belonged to the 53rd anti-aircraft brigade.

Source (in Russian):
«О действиях родины говорить не имею права»

Google Translate

Google Translate said:
Investigations
"I have no right to speak about the actions of the motherland"

What did the Russian anti-aircraft gunners do near the Ukrainian border on the day of the collapse of the Malaysian Boeing?


Society 18:11 June 05, 2019 Pavel Kanygin special correspondent


The Novaya Gazeta had at its disposal documents that did not have a “secret” stamp, on ensuring security on public roads when moving Russian troops in June 2014. As well as extracts from orders on the formulation of air defense troops for allowances and the allocation of dry rations to them.

From the papers it follows that more than 170 servicemen of the air defense units of the Russian Federation were near the border in the Rostov region on the day when the MH17 flight was attacked from the BUK air defense system. And on July 15, two days before the Boeing tragedy, they received dry rations for 5 days. In order to assess the accuracy of the information given in the documents, Novaya appeals to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for clarification (look for questions in the text).

Recall the tragedy occurred on July 17, 2014 in the sky over the Donbas, 35 kilometers from the border with the Russian Federation. It claimed the lives of 298 passengers, including 80 children. The civil airliner followed the flight Amsterdam - Kuala Lumpur and, flying over the Donetsk region at an altitude of 10 thousand meters, was hit by a ground-to-air missile from the BUK installation.

According to the findings of an international investigation team (JIT) investigating the tragedy, Boeing was attacked from the BUK complex, which was at the disposal of the pro-Russian separatists. The installation itself fell into their hands, according to the investigators, from the territory of Russia and belonged to the 53rd air defense brigade (military unit 32406), stationed near Kursk. JIT experts studied testimony and footage of amateur footage from June 23-25, 2014, namely, photo and video of the movement of columns of Russian military equipment on public roads near the western borders. In those shots, the BUK installation was also recorded with the partially readable board number 332.


The unique external characteristics of Kursk “BUK 332” installed by JIT - marking, traces of erased tail number, white spots, wheel without spokes

The JIT found that the “BUK” with traces of not fully erased tail number - 332 - as part of a column of military equipment arrived from the Kursk Region to the Rostov Region on June 25, 2014 (the start of the movement was the 23rd). On that day, the convoy was fixed in Millerovo, 30 km from Ukraine. Subsequently, the "BUK" with traces of not completely erased numbers 332 will be found out after three weeks already in the Donetsk region. There, he will repeatedly fall into amateur lenses which is not surprising: the appearance of military equipment on the roads in Russia and Ukraine in 2014 is not yet an everyday event.

On the records made in the Donbass, it is clear that the “BUK” is moving on a white Volvo tractor, accompanied by several civilian vehicles.


Infographics: Anna Zhavoronkova / "Novaya Gazeta"

After examining numerous photos and videos, JIT investigators established several unique external characteristics of the Kursk “BUK 332”, which also corresponded to the worn-out complex, captured in the Donbas. For example, the location and proportions of markings and spots of paint on the body, as well as the absence of spokes on one of the wheels of the air defense system. The Russian authorities, and first of all, the Ministry of Defense, called that JIT report unsubstantiated, and the video and photographic materials - falsified.

However, the findings of the JIT on the route of movement of the Kursk BUK 332, as we see, can be confirmed by the documents of the military themselves, who are at the disposal of the Novaya Gazeta. In particular, from the telephonogram of the duty officer of the 11th Regional Military Automobile Inspectorate (VAI) of Captain Belyaev dated June 22, 2014, you can learn about the order to organize the escort of military equipment on public roads on June 23 to the heads of territorial AAI. The order is sent, in particular, to the leadership of the 56th Kursk and 47th Voronezh VAI, which again confirms the established route.



From the paper it follows that the transportation of equipment of the Kursk air defense brigade will be carried out by the 69th logistics brigade (military unit 11385). (It should be noted that the Belyaev telephone message confirms the version of the authors of the Bellingcat portal about the participation of personnel and trucks of the 69th brigade in moving vehicles from Kursk, expressed by them back in 2017.)

In another paper, signed this time by a lieutenant colonel from the 69th brigade of Aladyin, there is a list of several trucks with drivers who will arrive in Kursk from Belgorod to go further. In particular, there appears KAMAZ with a “black” state number 4267 AN and its driver - private Бутиков A.N. Later this particular KAMAZ will fall into the lenses of amateur shooting during the transportation of “BUK 332” in Millerovo.

Aladyin also indicates that the senior lieutenant Iskander was appointed head of the KAMAZ column. The names of two more officers “for reference and coordination” are given - Lieutenant Colonel Vitaly Ryzhov and Major Alexei Egorov.

So, from 23 to 25 June, a column of military equipment follows from Kursk to the Millerovo military base near the Ukrainian border. This is confirmed by the amateur footage and documents of the military themselves. Further events can be reconstructed according to the documents on the nutrition of personnel. In particular, the boiler content - three hot meals a day, provided both in the field and in stationary conditions.

As follows from the order, signed by Acting Commander of the unit 32406 Lieutenant Colonel Demidov and Acting Chief of Staff Major Gorlatykh, the Kursk military arrived in Millerovo on July 15, 2014. The paper lists the names of more than 170 people; the first among them is the commander of the unit, Colonel Muchkaev.

“The following names ... should be considered as those who leave for a business trip to Millerovo for combat duty since July 15, 2014. Transfer to the boiler content from July 15 and issue a dry ration for 5 days. Remove from the boiler content from July 15 ".
The basis of the telegram is the head of the Russian Air Defense Forces of July 13, 2014.



We emphasize once again the curious details: it follows from the documents that the anti-aircraft gunners arrived in Millerovo almost three weeks later than their equipment; they were credited to the boiler allowance, they were immediately removed from it, but they also received snacks for 5 days (issued when cooking is not possible). Judging by these details, the anti-aircraft gunners obviously did not intend to linger for a long time with “combat duty” 30 km from the border and, together with sukhpaykas, went from Millerovo to another place. Is it so? And how to explain that soon one of the machines of the Kursk air defense brigade was spotted on the other side of the border?

Recall that in a telephone conversation between Russian General Oleg Ivannikov and field commander of “LNR” Oleg Bugrov, held on July 14, 2014, the latter complains about the Ukrainian military aviation, which “works off the positions” of the separatists. In response, Ivannikov says that there is “a couple more days left”: “We already have“ BUK ”. On ... we will shoot down. "

According to Novaya, these and other telephone conversations at the disposal of the JIT can form the basis of the accusations to specific Russian military leaders.

The fact of the arrival of soldiers from the Kursk unit in the border Millerovo with the date July 15 aggravates suspicions and justifies the questions raised by JIT investigators last year.

For example, who carried the combat vehicle back and forth and who was in the crew? Are their names on the list of 170 soldiers from the 53rd brigade, who arrived on “combat duty” to the border? Who gave them orders?

Officially, the command of the 53rd brigade does not comment on information regarding their own involvement in the tragedy of MH17 (like any other information). For several years, the Russian Defense Ministry has been repeating the same answer that no military equipment has crossed the border. The editors of Novaya decided, without intermediaries, to talk with the former and current soldiers of the 53rd brigade.

Ivan Yevseyenko did not go on a business trip to Millerovo, but began serving under contract a few days after the tragedy at MH17 - and now he has already quit his job. We met with a young man in a shopping center on the outskirts of Kursk. At first, Yevseyenko thought that “Novaya” correspondents were collectors, and first of all he declared that he had long since settled “all credit issues”. After making sure that we arrived in another case, Yevseyenko was relieved. “Oh, this. Well, that was before me, ”said the young man.

“Nobody believed that we could do this, - we do not know how to manage KAMAZ, and here there is a whole anti-aircraft complex. I still do not believe. ”

After meeting with Yevseyenko, we went to the current officer of the 53rd brigade, Major Ilya Baibakov. According to “Novaya”, he manages the rear food service and also participated in a business trip to Millerovo. If in the middle of July 2014, the “BUK 332” was actually transferred - for reasons that have yet to be clarified - into the hands of the separatists, then the soldiers accompanying the car were supplied with rations by Baibakov.

The Major lives in a military settlement to them, Marshal Zhukov near Kursk. The home address of the major can be found in the public domain in the base of court decisions of the Moscow District Military Court (in 2012, the court considered the question of depriving Baibakov of his driving license for driving in the opposite lane). The Kursk address of Baibakov can be checked with other databases available on the Internet. However, having arrived on it, the correspondents of “Novaya” Major Baibakov was not found. A female voice answered us through the intercom that she did not know Ilya Baibakov: “There are none like that and there haven’t been. Well, if only 25 years ago, so you can not search, ”said the voice and laughed. Note that 25 years ago, the village was only built.

Another person on the list of the military who went to Millerovo is the Major of the Medical Service of the 53rd Brigade, Irina Kolesnik. She now works at the Kursk Polyclinic of the Ministry of Internal Affairs on Gogol Street. We were able to make an appointment with Kolesnik by phone in advance, surprisingly she agreed immediately. The woman did not clarify our interest, but only said: "I know what question you are on."

During the meeting, Kolesnik wanted to find out how we knew about her and, in particular, about her current place of work: “They already know this,” she was surprised. Especially Kolesnik was interested in who could send journalists to her and what else “they” know. On the tragic events of July 2014, the conversation did not work out.

At the end of a short conversation the major said the phrase: “I can’t tell you anything. I have no right to speak about the actions of [the motherland]. ”

Pavel Kanygin, Kursk - Rostov - Moscow.
With the participation of Leonid Nikitinsky

Other sources in English:
The catastrophe of MH17: new data on involvement of the Russian military to the collapse of the liner | The Gal Post

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/06/russian-troops-moved-toward-ukraine-border-ahead-of-mh17-crash-new-reports-say-
a65906


Russian air defense units officially deployed at border with eastern Ukraine on day of MH17 crash - Russian media

Official records reveal that 170 Russian soldiers were deployed at the Ukrainian border on the day MH17 was shot down — Meduza

UNIAN: Russian air defense units officially deployed at border with eastern Ukraine on day of MH17 crash | KyivPost - Ukraine's Global Voice
 

Voyageur

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Recent reports claim that documents from 2014 have surfaced containing evidence of Russian presence near the border with Donbass including BUK missile squad.
Cain of custody is the usual problem with such videos and photos, which the Russians, more or less, question as being falsified.

As an aside (and perhaps not), the author of the above, "Pavel Kanygin special correspondent" seems to have been detained with others, reports the Moscow Times:


Had a further read on Mahathir's position from John Helmer as follows:



30447

By John Helmer, Moscow
@bears_with

The Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohamad, has announced in a new documentary film on the shooting-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 that the claim the Russians were responsible was invented from the start. He emphasized that Malaysian officials have been stopped from reviewing the evidence.

Forty-three Malaysian nationals were among the 298 passengers and crew who were killed on board the aircraft on July 17, 2014. One of them was Puan Sri Siti Amirah, 83, step-grandmother of Najib Razak, who was the Malaysian prime minister when the aircraft was struck by a ground-fired missile.

Speaking at his office on May 26, Mahathir said: “They never allowed us to be involved from the very beginning. This is unfair and unusual. So we can see they are not really looking at the causes of the crash and who was responsible. But already they have decided it must be Russia. So we cannot accept that kind of attitude. We are interested in the rule of law, in justice for everyone irrespective of who is involved. We have to know who actually fired the missile, and only then can we accept the report as the complete truth.”

By “they”, the Malaysian prime minister was accusing the Dutch and Australian governments, as well as the US, of faking the narrative that Russian forces under Moscow’s command fired the fatal missile.

That allegation was published as the justification for the sanctions which the US and the European Union imposed on July 29, 2014.

These measures were the first to commence economic and trade warfare against Russian banks and the Russian ship-building sector.

Late last year the Russian Defence Ministry provided evidence that the missile which had exploded to destroy the Malaysian passenger jet had been manufactured in a Russian plant in 1986, and then shipping to the Ukraine. Its last recorded location was at a Ukrainian military base; for more details, read this.

Mahathir is not the first senior Malaysian official to accuse the US, Dutch and Australians of lying about the MH17 crash.

In Washington, DC, time on the day of the crash, President Barack Obama telephoned Prime Minister Najib in Kuala Lumpur; the US and Malaysian records of their conversation indicate Obama did not make any claim about Russian responsibility. After the Obama call, Najib was more explicit in not assigning culpability. “We will find out what happened to the plane,” Najib said at a press conference on July 18. “If it was indeed shot down, we will press for the culprit to be brought to book. The Ukraine government believes the plane was shot down. However, at this stage, Malaysia has yet to identify the cause of the tragedy. If it transpires that the plane was indeed shot down, we insist that the perpetrators must swiftly be brought to justice. Emergency operations centres have been established. In the last few hours, Malaysian officials have been in constant contact with their counterparts in Ukraine and elsewhere.”

Najib told the press he had spoken to the Dutch prime minister and the Ukrainian president; he did not reveal the call from Obama.

30448
Prime Minister Najib (centre) at press conference on July 18, 2014. Source: https://says.com/ An important detail in Najib’s statement was that the Malaysian Government and Malaysia Airlines had received confirmation from international aviation authorities that the Ukrainian airspace through which MH17 was flying when it was attacked was “not subject to restrictions.” The failure of the government in Ukraine to close the airspace above the fighting in eastern Ukraine is now the target of a negligence lawsuit at the European Court of Human Rights by families of the dead passengers; read more.

Max vander Werff and Yana Yerlashova filmed their interview with Mahathir on May 26. This week they released an excerpt of the interview in a preview of their film, “MH 17 – Five Years On”. In May they created Bonanza Media TV Chanel, a start-up platform for independent journalists. Their MH17 documentary is the first to air on the platform. Watch the film by clicking here. The full film will be broadcast next month.

Vander Werff is the leading independent investigator of MH17’s destruction over eastern Ukraine; he is Dutch. Yana Yerlashova is a Russian documentary film-maker; she formerly worked with RT, the Russian media organization equivalent to the BBC and Voice of America state broadcasters.

30449
Left: Max vander Werff; right, Yana Verlashova. In this clip, they explain why Verlashova left RT, the Russian state media network, in order to make independent documentary films. The new film, “MH17 – Five Years On”, has been funded by a worldwide subscription through Kickstarter. Attempts by the BBC and by Dutch bloggers supporting their government to discredit Vander Werff and Yerlashova can be followed here. “I am unbiased and not stupid”, the pro-government Dutch blogger Marcel van den Berg claims on his website.

On March 26, the Australian and Dutch foreign ministers made a public appearance in Sydney. They said that earlier in the month they had held with Russian representatives “the first iteration of state responsibility talks between Australia, the Netherlands and Russia.”
Disclosing no details of the negotiations, the Dutch minister Stefan Blok repeated the earlier “decision to hold Russia responsible in international law for its role in the downing of Flight MH17. Following this step we entered into contact with Russia.”

The two officials did not explain why Malaysia has been excluded from “state responsibility talks” although its losses in the crash are second only to the 193 Dutch nationals, and exceed the 28 Australian casualties.
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Centre left, Dutch Foreign Minister Stefan Blok; right, Australian Foreign Minister Marise Payne. Source: https://www.nst.com.my/ Dutch and Australian officials have met regularly to put pressure on the Malaysians not to break with their version of the MH17 crash. For more details, read this.

The Dutch-Australian talks led to Mahathir’s remarks recorded in the interview with vander Werff and Yerlashova on May 26.

Four days later, on May 30, Mahathir went public with his reaction to the Dutch and Australians. At a press conference in Tokyo, Bernama, the Malaysian state media agency, reported what the prime minister said. “You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians,” Mahathir commented. “It could be by the rebels in Ukraine, it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile…We don’t know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it and the idea was not to find out how this happened but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians. This is not a neutral kind of examination.”

The Murdoch media in Australia, cribbing from the Malaysian press coverage, added this editorial line: “Dr Mahathir is known to enjoy a good conspiracy theory and it’s not the first time his opinions have raised eyebrows.”
Well there you have it as an end note by Murdoch, all a conspiracy by Mahathir, so move along.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
Thanks Voyageur for chiming in with additional info. :thup:

With the fifth anniversary of the disaster (2014-2019) coming up I get the strong impression of a growing nervousness in multiple concerned parties. This might be an indication of thus far unknown movements behind the scene... Just speculating of course!
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
The following article contains a short interview with Pavel Kanygin who has been released pretty soon after he was unjustifiably arrested.

Source (Dutch only): Cookies op AD.nl | AD.nl

DeepL Translator said:
New MH17 documents are important for the trial.

Joost Bosman 09-06-19, 19:16 Last update: 21:35

Russian investigative journalist Pavel Kanygin has been following the proceedings around the attack on flight MH17 with passion for five years. Last week he published new documents in his newspaper Novaja Gazeta about Russian involvement in the disaster.

According to 'Novaja', two days before the shooting of the Boeing over Eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014, a unit of 170 Russian anti-aircraft soldiers was reported to have arrived at the Ukrainian border.

The documents also show that the military traffic police had the task of accompanying the convoy of the 69th logistics brigade. They carried anti-aircraft equipment from the 53rd brigade, which supplied the BUK. They additionally show trucks, license plates and the name of a driver that are also mentioned in the JIT-report, and in the documents there are names of officers who were in charge of the convoy.


Pavel Kanygin © RV

Also noteworthy: the 170 soldiers were given combat rations for five days. They normally use them in war zones. It indicates that the Russian troops (with BUK) were ready to enter the Ukrainian Donbass.

Where did you get the documents?

"I cannot say that. I have to protect my sources. But I can assure you that the sources are reliable and the documents are genuine. The documents are not classified as 'secret' either."

Is there anything new in the documents that we didn't know yet?

"Not really, but its meaning is that everything the JIT already knew is now also confirmed on the basis of Russian documents. This is very important for the legal procedure and soon in the courtroom. It is circumstantial evidence, but that combined with the information from the JIT, can make clear a lot about what happened that day."

You have been writing about MH17 for five years. Why this commitment?

"I followed the war in Eastern Ukraine from the moment it broke out in the summer of 2014. When MH17 was shot down, I didn't care at first whether the rebels of the People's Republic of Donetsk (DNR), Ukrainians, Russians or Americans had done it. I just wanted to know the truth and went looking for it. I started to analyze and step by step discover that the Russian authorities were withholding things, twisting them and selling lies about the case. That is why I want not only to show the victims and their families what has happened, but also to reveal to the Russian public how their own rulers operate. The population does not read documents on the Internet or has no access to it, not even partly."

Your colleague from Medusa, Ivan Golunov, was arrested last Friday on suspicion of drug possession and sale. You are at least as critical of the Russian authorities. Are you in danger of being arrested?

"Of course. Indeed, last Friday I and two others were arrested and detained at a picket demonstration on behalf of Golunov, while we were fully respecting the law. They also released us again almost immediately, indicating that the police had no real reason for it. But I am always afraid that the authorities will trick me one day. In the DNR I have been arrested, molested and evicted for alleged drug use. And in Russia as well you never know what can happen to you if you oppose the powers. In other, pro-Kremlin media my name is constantly being dragged through the mud and that's very unpleasant."

What are you going to do on 17 July?

"I don't know if there is a commemorative event in the Netherlands. But maybe I'll fly to the Netherlands anyway to be with the next of kin. Many of them I know personally. Maybe I wouldn't even go as a journalist, but more as a human being. To assist the families of the deceased."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
 

Voyageur

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The following article contains a short interview with Pavel Kanygin who has been released pretty soon after he was unjustifiably arrested.
I can't say if it was unjustifiable or not (he was released) and he is known in Russia as a bit of an agitator (which Pavel himself makes indirect reference). He is making claims, no doubt, and yet he is not really presenting anything substantial, and his sources, he says, are protected. In his scenario, Pavel follows the lead set by JIT building on Bellingcat and those old telephone messages "It should be noted that the Belyaev telephone message confirms the version of the authors of the Bellingcat portal about the participation of personnel and trucks of the 69th brigade in moving vehicles from Kursk, expressed by them back in 2017," he says.

He seems like a clapper for Bellingcat?

Anyway, this seems like old ground and is why I mentioned that "Chain of custody is the usual problem with such videos and photos, which the Russians, more or less, question as being falsified."

Also, I see that possible friends from Bellingcat picked up the story of Pavel's arrest only to Tweet (and he has a few more comments):


There may be more to this Pavel than meets the eye, yet don't know, only that there are a few flags, osit.

Based on the map he shows of the movement of this 170 + man brigade with BUK in tow, it is not something kept well hidden from eyes at altitude, yet the American's never produced a thing, and they would be watching - would they not produce if they had something?

Edit: spell
 
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