Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine


The Living Force
Voyageur said:
Based on the map he shows of the movement of this 170 + man brigade with BUK in tow, it is not something kept well hidden from eyes at altitude, yet the American's never produced a thing, and they would be watching - would they not produce if they had something?
I seem to remember from one of the JIT publications (or comments on those) that they devised a special procedure for when a court case is to be heard in the future. A specially sworn in (Dutch?) civil servant who has sufficient security clearance to have access to those materials would deposit a written statement about what he would have seen in the American intelligence source materials concerning the downing of MH17 and subsequently be available for questioning -- presumably anonymously and indirectly (blurred video-link, or something).

I searched for it but couldn't find it. Sorry about that.


The Living Force
The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) has announced it will hold a press conference on upcoming Wednesday. A few hours earlier the next of kin will collectively be briefed in a separate closed meeting. Bellingcat has announced a new, hundred pages report to be published on the same day. In Dutch news papers and among the surviving relatives speculation abounds that new names of perpetrators could be made public and that legal procedures could be announced or initiated.

Source: MH17 crash investigators to present new evidence next week - - Live

MH17 crash investigators to present new evidence next week

June 14, 2019

The team investigating the downing of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014 will present new findings to the public on Wednesday.

The JIT (joint investigation team) has written to the relatives of the 298 people who died to tell them that they will be briefed about the new discoveries on Wednesday ahead of a press conference.

The JIT is an alliance of investigators from the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine. The investigation has already determined that the missile which brought down the Malaysia Airlines plane came from a launching system which originated at a Russian military base.

Last May [2018] the Netherlands said it is holding Russia responsible for the disaster. Russia has consistently denied any involvement.

Dutch media are speculating that the investigators will reveal the names of the people they say may have fired the missile.

Investigative research group Bellingcat has told the AD (in Dutch) it will publish new names of people suspected of involvement next week.

Similar coverage here:
"New developments" in MH17 investigation

A couple of sources in Dutch:
Cookies op |
'Onderzoeksteam maakt woensdag bekend wie achter neerhalen MH17 zat'


The Living Force
Source: Charges to be brought against four involved in MH17 downing in Donbas in 2014 after their names made public

Charges to be brought against four involved in MH17 downing in Donbas in 2014 after their names made public

12:15 18.06.2019

Charges against the first four suspects in the downing of a Malaysia Airline Boeing plane (flight MH17) over occupied Donbas in 2014 will be brought after their names are made public by the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), Ukraine's Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (MFA) Olena Zerkal said.

"The names will be announced. Charges will be brought. After that, the Criminal Court of Schiphol (the Netherlands) will start working to consider this case. But until the court establishes their guilt, we cannot say they are guilty ... They are only the top. Naturally, then the number of people who are involved in this will be much larger than the four people who will be named," Zerkal told Interfax-Ukraine in an exclusive interview.

When asked if this concerns the Russian army's senior officers, she answered in the affirmative, explaining that the transfer of such weapons as the Buk anti-aircraft missile system, which was used to shot down the plane, "is impossible without the top brass's permission."

The deputy minister clarified that "there is already all the information about how the Buk arrived, but there is no information about who shot, who is responsible."

After that, she said, Bellingcat, an international group of researchers, who collect and analyze information from open sources, is expected to deliver their presentation.

"There will be another interesting presentation by Bellingcat. They always go further than the official investigation team," Zerkal said.

She said that the representatives of the Netherlands and Australia are jointly moving "as part of their claim against the Russians for the downing of MH17 as a state." "They have already held one round of consultations with them, and now they are moving towards the second round of consultations to bring Russia to justice as a state," she said.

"So far this is international legal responsibility. These are all complex processes, and they are treated in a very careful and balanced way, and, unlike us, they understand that international legal responsibility in international law cannot be handled in a hurry," Zerkal added.

Similar coverage here:
MH17 investigators will name names, Ukrainian minister said - - Live


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Russians, Ukrainian to face murder charges over downing of flight MH17
Russian nationals Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinskiy and Oleg Pulatov, as well as Ukrainian Leonid Kharchenko, accused of downing of flight MH17, are shown on screen as international investigators present their latest findings in the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, nearly five years after the crash that killed 298 passengers and crew, in Nieuwegein, Netherlands, June 19, 2019.  REUTERS/Eva Plevier

Three Russians and a Ukrainian will face murder charges for the 2014 downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine which killed 298 people, in a trial to start in the Netherlands next March, an investigation team said on Wednesday.

Britain says Russia must cooperate fully with MH17 prosecution
Britain said Russia must cooperate fully with the murder prosecution of three Russians and a Ukrainian for downing Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in July 2014, killing 298 people including 10 Britons.

Ukraine will try to arrest Ukrainian MH17 suspect: Interfax Ukraine
Ukraine will try to arrest a Ukrainian suspect, Leonid Kharchenko, in relation to the 2014 downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine, Interfax Ukraine quoted General Prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko as saying on Wednesday.

Evidence shows Russia supplied missile used to shoot down MH17: investigator
Investigators have collected enough evidence to show that Russia provided the missile launcher used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014, they said on Wednesday.

International investigators: Four suspected of murder in MH17 downing
Four suspects will be charged with murder for their role in the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in July 2014, in a trial set to start next March in the Netherlands, international investigators said on Wednesday.

Four suspects to face murder charges for downing of MH17: relatives
Four suspects will face murder charges for the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight 17 in July 2014 in a trial set to start next March in the Netherlands, families of the victims said on Wednesday.


The Living Force
Thanks for posting, angelburst29. :clap:

Here are a couple of additions. Inevitably there's quite some overlap and redundancy:

Four names of MH17 suspects to be revealed today: report
MH17 relatives hoping for the truth
Bellingcat releases names of those allegedly involved in MH17 downing
Four suspects to be prosecuted for MH17 in Netherlands next year
Russian suspects deny involvement in MH17 downing
MH17: NL taking 'diplomatic steps' against Russia for not cooperating in investigation

Four suspects to be prosecuted for downing MH17 flight - - Live

Identifying the Separatists Linked to the Downing of MH17 - bellingcat

Propaganda alert! Russians, Ukrainian to face murder charges over downing of Flight MH17 --

MH17 Downing Investigators Name 4 Suspects, DPR Refutes Claims of Involvement
Dutch-led investigators demand arrest of 4 people allegedly involved in MH17 downing
We regret ‘baseless’ accusations by intl probe Russian military complicit in MH17 crash – Moscow

Four to Face Murder Charges in Downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17
The MH17 Charges, Explained

MH17 court case will finally put truth on record
Four charged with murder for downing flight MH17

MH17 families slam Putin as suspects named
Paul Guard's parents were killed on MH17, his response to those accused of murdering them is surprising

Russia says findings of MH17 crash investigation are groundless | Malay Mail


The Living Force
The latest (Dutch only):
JIT: MH17-onderzoek reikt tot aan topadviseur van Poetin

DeepL Translator said:
JIT: MH17 research reaches as far as Putin's top advisor

Today, 20:04 Domestic Foreign

Surkov (left) with Putin in 2012 AFP

The investigation of the JIT, the international team investigating the shooting of flight MH17, reaches into the heart of the Kremlin, it became clear today. A top advisor from the Russian president Putin helped with the delivery of the used rocket, states the Joint Investigation Team.

This is Vladislav Surkov, described by JIT as "a senior official of the Russian government who works from Moscow". According to JIT, he had direct contact with separatists in eastern Ukraine in 2014.

"We assume that he has been involved in providing the BUK and possibly other equipment needed at that time in eastern Ukraine," said Fred Westerbeke, head of JIT, after this afternoon's presentation to the NOS broadcaster.

During the presentation, JIT released a tapped phone call between Surkov and Mikhail Borodaj, leader of the separatists in the Ukrainian region of Donetsk. The conversation dates from 11 July 2014, just under a week before MH17 was shot out of the sky.

In the conversation Surkov says that there is made haste, but that he can't make any firm commitments. He says that Borodaj may need some patience.

Below is the audio of the phone call (source: JIT) (cannot be embedded) (00:54):

According to the JIT, this discussion is about strengthening the rebels in Eastern Ukraine. "They were in a fight there at the time and needed more equipment," says Westerbeke. "Surkov was approached about that."

Borodaj had already previously asked a Russian commander for anti-aircraft artillery with trained personnel. The commander called back fifteen minutes later that reinforcements were being worked on. The JIT also made this conversation public.

Deputy Prime Minister

Surkov is considered to be one of Vladimir Putin's most important advisors. He has been working in the Kremlin for about twenty years and has been Deputy Prime Minister for a number of years, says NOS correspondent Geert Groot Koerkamp.

"What is important in this situation is that he has been in charge of the Ukraine dossier since 2013. He also did a great deal at that time to get Ukraine increasingly detached from the European Union. And once the war started there, Surkov coordinated the contacts between the Kremlin and the leaders of the rebel republic."

Russia still denies any involvement in the downing of flight MH17. Research leader Westerbeke: "Whether you are very close to the Kremlin with Mr. Surkov? I do not disagree with that conclusion."

Translated with


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
June 20, 2019 - Malaysian PM says Russia being made a scapegoat for downing of flight MH17
FILE PHOTO : Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad delivers a speech at the International Conference on the Future of Asia in Tokyo, Japan June 11, 2018. REUTERS/Issei Kato
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad said on Thursday Russia is being made a scapegoat for the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and questioned the objectivity of the investigations into the 2014 disaster.

Putin rejects conclusions of investigation into downing of Flight MH17
Russian President Vladimir Putin attends a news briefing after an annual nationwide televised phone-in show in Moscow, Russia June 20, 2019. REUTERS/Shamil Zhumatov

President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday that Russia disagreed with the conclusions of an international investigation that named three Russians and a Ukrainian this week as suspects in the downing of a passenger plane over Ukraine in 2014.

Russia presented hard evidence in MH17 crash case, says security chief
Russia presented hard evidence in MH17 crash case, says security chief
© Mikhail Pochuev/TASS

UFA, June 20, 2019 - Moscow has presented hard evidence in the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 crash case, Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev said in response to a TASS question on Thursday.

"We presented information, including technical and other data, it is hard evidence but it is not being taken into account," he noted. "We would like this evidence to be considered but they have no wish to assess it," Patrushev added.

Patrushev said that the Dutch investigators have named suspects in the 2014 MH17 downing case without providing evidence.

"As soon as the event occurred, the perpetrators were immediately named and they reduced this entire investigation to confirm their first assumption," Patrushev told reporters. "We don’t see any evidence that proves what they have said. And in general, in my opinion this has been an awkward investigation."

Russian expert doubts authenticity of new info in MH17 case
Russian expert doubts authenticity of new info in MH17 case

© Mikhail Pochuyev/TASS

MOSCOW, June 19, 2019 - The new information, revealed on Wednesday by the Joint Investigative Team (JIT) looking into the 2014 Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine, demonstrates that the investigation was carried out in a very negligent manner, a senior Russian political expert told TASS.

"It is evident that the investigation into the Boeing crash was carried out in a very unprofessional manner," Director of the Center for Current Policy Alexei Chesnakov said. "They claim that there is a recorded phone conversation between [MH17 crash suspect] Igor Girkin with [Russian presidential aide] Vladislav Surkov. This is total nonsense."

"Surkov has never had any conversation with Girkin, neither in person nor by phone. His level of contacts is the heads of the [self-proclaimed] people’s republics of Donbass. Girkin is simply not his format. This record must be subjected to an independent analysis, which will prove easily that it has no Surkov’s voice on it," he went on.

"When the hostilities were in full swing, Surkov never spoke [with heads of self-proclaimed republics] by phone for security reasons. He maintained contact with [then Chairman of the DPR Council of Ministers Alexander] Borodai in a different form. And he never discussed military issues with him, just because this was beyond his sphere of duties," Chesnakov said.

"This small detail casts doubt on the entire investigation," the expert added. "It [the probe] was either inaccurate or unscrupulous."

Investigators to request interrogation of Russian suspects in MH17 case
Investigators to request interrogation of Russian suspects in MH17 case
© Mikhail Pochuev/TASS

NIEUWEGEIN /Netherlands/, June 19, 2019 - International investigators will address Russia with the request to interrogate the suspects in the MH17 crash case, Dutch prosecutor Fred Westerbeke stated during a press conference on Wednesday.

"We do not aim to pursue their extradition, as the laws of Russia and Ukraine do not suppose the handover of suspects," he noted. However, the investigators aim to request their interrogation, Westerbeke added.

Russian citizens Igor Girkin (known under an alias "Strelkov"), Sergey Dubinsky and Oleg Pulatov, as well as Ukrainian citizen Leonid Kharchenko, are among the suspects named by the Dutch investigators.

Westerbeke also informed that the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) would continue the criminal investigation of the plane crash.

Ukraine president: I hope MH17 crash suspects will stand trial
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy is seen at his desk in his office at the Presidential Administration building in Kiev, Ukraine June 19, 2019.  REUTERS/Valentyn Ogirenko

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Wednesday he welcomed murder charges brought against four suspects over the 2014 downing of the MH17 passenger jet over eastern Ukraine, and said he hoped they would stand trial.


The Living Force
Thanks again angelburst29. I was just about to post this one as yours came in.

Source: Malaysian PM calls new MH17 conclusions "hearsay"

Malaysian PM calls new MH17 conclusions "hearsay"

By Janene Pieters on June 20, 2019 - 11:00

Mahathir Mohamad, the Prime Minister of Malaysia, is critical about the new findings the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) revealed in the investigation into the MH17 disaster on Wednesday, calling them "nothing but hearsay". In another statement, the Malaysian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that "the Malaysian approach is that conclusions must always be based on evidence and not politically motivated", AD reports (in Dutch).

The Foreign Ministry of the Southeast Asian country also said that Malaysia remains committed to the JIT.

On Wednesday the JIT - which consists of the countries most affected by the MH17 disaster: the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Ukraine and Malaysia - announced that three Russian and one Ukrainian suspects will be prosecuted for the downing of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine on July 17th, 2014.

Based on intercepted telephone conversations around the disaster, among other things, the JIT concluded that Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinskiy, Oleg Pulatov, and Leonid Kharchenko played crucial roles in delivering the BUK missile system that shot down MH17. They will be prosecuted for causing the crash and leading to the death of everyone on board. They are also facing charges of murdering 298 passengers of MH17.

“We now have the information, have the proof, that the Russian Federation is involved in this tragedy, in this crime, one way or another.” Dutch Prosecutor Fred Westerbeke said in the press conference.

A Malaysian member of the investigation team, Mohamad Hanafiah bin Zakaria, was present at the JIT press conference in Nieuwegein. A present journalist asked him how Malaysia views the new conclusions. "We are on the side of the law and we stand by the conclusions", he replied.

The Dutch government previously asked Malaysia for clarification after Prime Minister Mohamad raised doubts about whether Russia was responsible for the downing of the Malaysia Airlines flight.

In a letter sent to Dutch parliament after the press conference, Minister Ferdinand Grapperhaus of Justice and Security that the decision to prosecute has the full and unanimous support of all countries participating in the Joint Investigation Team, possibly also due to the previous statements made by Mohamad.


The Living Force
Source (Dutch only): Ook Maleisië ondertekent brief aan VN-Veiligheidsraad over MH17-onderzoek

DeepL Translator said:
Malaysia too signs letter to UN Security Council on MH17 investigation

Yesterday, 18:24 Adjusted Yesterday, 20:50 Domestic, Politics

In a joint letter to the UN Security Council, the five countries which are cooperating in the investigation into the collapse of flight MH17 emphasize their confidence in the investigation by the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) and its independence. Malaysia has also signed the letter.

In the JIT, the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine are conducting a joint criminal investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 with a BUK rocket. This happened on 17 July 2014 over Eastern Ukraine. Yesterday it was announced that three Russians and one Ukrainian would be charged with murder.

Malaysia's signing is remarkable, as Prime Minister Mahathir said today that there is no hard evidence that Russia is responsible for bringing down flight MH17. According to him, the criminal investigation from the outset is aimed at finding Russia to be the only guilty party.

Political issue

The Malaysian Prime Minister also argued that the disaster was immediately turned into a political issue, with the aim of slandering Russia. It is not clear whether he has changed his mind. However, the Malaysian Ministry of Foreign Affairs immediately supported the conclusions of the JIT.

A few weeks ago, Mahathir also questioned the investigation. He acknowledged that flight MH17 had been shot down with a Russian-type rocket, but he did not rule out that it had been manufactured in Ukraine.

Consultation with Malaysia

The Netherlands had intensive consultations with Malaysia today. Minister Blok of Foreign Affairs had a meeting with his Malaysian colleague about the content of the letter to the Security Council. According to a spokesman, the Malaysian minister has endorsed the contents of the letter. There was also a meeting with the Ambassador of Malaysia at a high administrative level.

Prime Minister Rutte has not yet had contact with Prime Minister Mahathir. He understands that the reaction from Malaysia could lead to disappointment and confusion among those involved. The contacts go "step by step", but if necessary he will talk to his colleague, Rutte said.

Russian aid 'insufficient'

The investigation into the culprits is supported by Resolution 2166, adopted by the UN Security Council in August 2014. This resolution calls on all countries to cooperate fully with the investigation.

In the letter, the five member states of the JIT complain about the Russian Federation. The signatories write that the information and responses to requests for legal assistance from Russia have proven to be unsatisfactory and inadequate.

Translated with


The Living Force
Source (Dutch only): Brandbrief nabestaanden MH17: 'Eis medewerking van Rusland'

DeepL Translator said:
Council of Europe

High priority letter from next of kin MH17: 'Require cooperation from Russia'.

3 hours 28 minutes ago Adjusted: 3 hours 19 minutes ago

In an urgent letter today, next of kin of the victims of the MH17 air disaster are calling on the Council of Europe not to allow Russia to return to the international human rights organization without a hitch.

The letter from Stichting Vliegramp MH17 is in the possession of RTL Nieuws. Next of kin call it 'unthinkable' that Russia will simply be given the right to vote again, without 'hard and explicit guarantees' that Moscow will be held accountable for its role in the MH17 disaster.

Precisely this week, Russia's extremely sensitive return to the Council of Europe is back on the agenda. The Russians lost their right to vote in 2014 after the annexation of the Crimea and their direct involvement in the war in Ukraine. The Council of Europe, a human rights organization of 47 countries, then imposed sanctions.

Despite the fact that Russia did not budge, did not pay contributions since 2017 and threatened to leave the Council altogether, at the beginning of this month the way was paved for an unconditional return (in Dutch).

Russia will once again have the right to vote in the Council of Ministers and in the Parliamentary Assembly, and that right cannot be taken away from it in the future (in French). Russia has flouted all recent Council resolutions. Critics say that the Council is giving in to 'blackmail' (English) of Moscow in this way, leaving victims of Russian human rights violations out in the cold.

Rigorous guarantees

The foundation Vliegramp MH17, which represents the interests of the next of kin, now calls on the Dutch parliamentary delegation (and the entire assembly) to put a stop to this. They ask for the return of Russia to be postponed 'for the time being', or at least for firm guarantees to be demanded. Next of kin believe that the Council should demand 'unconditional cooperation' from the Russian Federation in the investigation, prosecution and trial of the perpetrators behind the demolition of MH17.

The Dutch delegation reacted cautiously to the urgent letter: "I get the point", says Ria Oomen-Ruiters (CDA) in a reaction. "I'm going to make the final assessment tomorrow." She does state that talking to the large neighbor is 'better than turning your back on each other'.

Oomen emphasizes that by returning to the Council of Europe, Russian citizens will once again have more opportunities to take their own country to court.

'Not helpful'

This is also the line of Tiny Kox (SP), who worked behind the scenes to bring about the return of Russia. He calls it 'not helpful' to play up the MH17 issue now. According to Kox, Russia's return will result in that country being investigated more closely again, for example by rapporteurs on human rights. "And when you're talking, you can also put the cooperation of the Russian Federation in the MH17 investigation back on the agenda."

Next week, the parliamentary assembly will decide on Russia's return. [Dutch] Minister Blok (Foreign Affairs) earlier agreed with the return of Russia.

The urgent letter of the Stichting Vliegramp MH17 can be read here (Dutch version) and here (English version). [PDF-file, one page]

RTL Nieuws / Pieter Klein

Translated with DeepL Translator

Source (Dutch only): Stichting Vliegramp MH17: geef Rusland stem niet terug in Raad van Europa

Basically the same information, with one addition:

DeepL Translator said:

Ukraine and some other countries are also opposed to the full-fledged return of the Russians to the Council. They point out that the Council of Europe's premise is being jeopardized.

"This would be a unilateral surrender of the Council of Europe to Russian demands,' says the Ukrainian Ambassador to the Council, Dmytro Kuleba. He fears that the 47 representatives of the Member States will, at their meeting tomorrow, treat Russia's right to vote as a hammerhead forgone conclusion.

Translated with DeepL Translator


The Living Force
The Council of Europe has voted to reinstate Russian voting rights and its full membership. The vote was 118 in favor and 62 against, with 10 abstentions. Russia had said it would quit the council altogether if it was not reinstated in time for a vote for a new secretary general, scheduled for Wednesday. Most of those opposed were from countries of the former Soviet block.

Council of Europe Restores Russia’s Voting Rights
Ukraine fury as Russia gets human rights vote
Council of Europe restores Russia's voting rights | DW | 25.06.2019

In Dutch:
Nabestaanden MH17 geschoffeerd. Raad van Europa rijdt Russische BUK Assemblee binnen
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