Well-said, SAO. I agree and it's good and healthy to discuss all this in an open and sincere way, and not to let emotions run away or take a "holier than thou" / black and white attitude. We all DO need each other to calibrate our reading instruments in all kinds of situations. That's what this network is all about, and that's its essential value.
And, as said, we're ALL ponerized in some ways to one degree or another, and need to figure out/see in which ways and work on them with the help of a NETWORK of sincere people with the same AIMS, going in the same direction. Also, giving each thing its due is VERY important. As so many good points have been made in such good and clear ways, I'll just give some more personal examples, for what they're worth, in hopes that it will help others and the discussion in looking at things from many different angles and the widest perspective possible with the greatest context.
But first, Miss.K, you seem to be consistently missing very important points and the crux of the matter. Nature is very old and very wise. Volumes of books can be written about these matters (and I'm going to try very hard from doing so here :P). The Life System is so astonishingly remarkable that it's quite hard to put my points into a concise post, but I'll try. The cosmos is about balance, and will always balance all things at all levels. We can only observe, learn from, and try to align with this process as participants in the whole the best we can.
This is a really tricky thing, obviously, because the whole system is VAST and very complex. BUT, it works (almost) perfectly. Everything at all levels is always coming into balance, but it's not ever reaching a perfect balance or equilibrium, because if it did, everything would probably cease - all flow of energies and information - would become static instead of the extremely complex and dynamic ways the cosmos makes everything possible. Or so I think, as what I'm saying is very abstract, theoretical/philosophical, in a certain sense.
Reread this thread, if you are so inclined, and see if you can find where you keep missing the important points/crux of the matter (as I feel you can potentially really benefit from doing so). Forget about "being right" - set that aside if you can - and see if you can understand what's being pointed out, emotionally AND intellectually/rationally. We've gone back and forth over some of the same points in different ways in different posts, and I'm getting the feeling that you're manifesting somewhat of a "right man syndrome" - being right is uppermost and clouding your ability to see things clearly and from the highest perspective and largest context, I think. Even if I'm wrong, and I very well may be, it's worth going through such exercises to get closer to understanding and truth for all of us participating in this discussion.
Again, try, for the time being, considering that what is being pointed out to you (and generally) may be true (or closer to objective truth). You keep missing the point about the "contract" aspect that was brought up, as one example, which is very important. We are part of the Life System and the Cosmos, and we are given opportunities for life, experiences, and learning that we ought to deeply appreciate and contribute to the whole system in the best ways possible from our level of being, understanding, and appreciation for being part of it all and having the opportunity to learn and participate in it all.
At our BEST, and we are far from it usually, we humans will never be able to understand/comprehend everything on the level of the Cosmos/the whole. So we can't make as good decisions as the Universe does FOR the whole in the "long term," so to speak. Therefore we should be very humble and open to learn what we really CAN do to "help" the overall system in our own small ways that may contribute to the growth, development and well-being of the whole, and ourselves (obviously, part of the whole). Try, if you may, to take this all in and reconsider if what this zoo and the decision makers did was proper in these circumstances, all things considered.
On the point of being traumatized by this (and other similar situations), I have some personal recollections from a very young age. I went on a fishing trip when I was around 4 or 5, if I remember correctly, with my older brother (one and a half years older), father, and some of his "work friends." A couple of these men, one that particularly proved to have many pathological traits over time, brought hunting rifles with them. On our way to the fishing location, they started shooting at birds. My brother and I were very traumatized by the loud noises, and not being prepared for the possibility of killing the birds. I still have problems remembering clearly the whole thing. What I remember is the traumatizing effect on us and our crying.
Another personal anecdotal piece of data is that, although I love animals a whole lot, I've never owned a pet. I've listened to my mother's touching experiences about a couple of pet dogs when she was a child, and my father's with a couple of birds (one being a pigeon nursed back to health when it flew into their balcony and becoming a pet for years), and a turtle. They've conveyed the love, affection, and connection they had with these diverse animals. Obviously, I've also seen many different people with various types of pets in a variety of situations.
There are many different dynamics and attitudes between people and their pets. Some very uplifting and inspiring, others not so much, but all presenting opportunities to learn about humans, animals, and life in general. For whatever reason, I've never owned a pet, but I DO appreciate some of the very special relationships between pets and their owners. There's no "one size fits all," "right/wrong" solution to ANYTHING in life. Neither pet owners, nor non-pet-owners can be said to "hold a higher ethical ground." The devil, as they say, is in the details. Each circumstance is different, and the specifics are very important to say what's "right or wrong." As is said so often on this forum, there's good, there's evil, and there's the circumstances that decide which is which - the Third Force.
Same with the idea of zoos. I can't say categorically that it's wrong or sick or whatever. There's a large spectrum of how zoos can be operated - most importantly with what values and attitudes. Same with raising animals for food, having pets, or anything else - including hunting. Let's try our hardest, as difficult as it is at times (like this), not to fall into black-and-white thinking and get to the crux of the matter as best we can.
Pet owners, zoo operators, animal husbandry operators, all have responsibilities that come with these roles - socio-moral contracts, if you will. Putting down your pet when they're in much pain/very ill health, for instance, is another good way to illustrate that there are many details and nuances to be taken into consideration for what is the right thing to do in a given situation. These are excruciatingly difficult decision for the pet owner, the MORE they love the animal, the BIGGER the responsibility to do what's best in any situation. Again, no fast and easy rules in life - understanding with our whole being should be what's strived for.
Similarly, I don't have children of my own, and don't want or plan to have any, but I LOVE children. One can love and appreciate others' children (almost) as much as one's own. There's no reason to reserve this kind of love for our biological children only. If the world was in a different state, AND there was no overpopulation problem with ponerized humanity, I'd love to have my own kids, hopefully living up to my parental responsibilities to raise healthy, caring and intelligent, happy/fulifilled kids with flying colors (another BIG consideration for NOT having kids, what if I can't meet that responsibility?). But that's not the reality we live in. So, I'll have to "make do" with the satisfaction of seeing others' children grow and develop, and contribute however and whenever appropriate.
In the same way, I interact with and appreciate others' pets, stray animals, etc. I've nursed some wounded birds, dogs, and cats back to health in my life and missed them afterwards and been very much beneficially affected for doing so. That's one of the beauties of life, there are many different ways to experience similar or the same things.
Coming back around, from a certain perspective, The Life System can be very "cruel." It doesn't really care about individuals or even entire species, including humans, but only in preserving and perpetuating the whole system that makes any life possible at all. If we have the right attitude/approach, respect and appreciation, we can easily see that it cares for the whole AS the whole and provides everything necessary for all species and even individuals (almost all) at any given instant/moment under consideration. BUT, again, it's set up to serve the whole - the vast symbiotic, mutually-sustaining system - and no individual or species is or can be so important as to jeopardize the Life/Life Sustaining System.
To come back to more of the main subject, these zoo decision makers seem to be using paramoralisms and paralogical arguments for doing what they want, period. And now doing it again (ironically to another giraffe named Marius at the same zoo), they also seem to be rubbing everyone's noses in it. It's very symbolic that they have a chance of a do-over, and are bent on making the same decisions. Truly humble and caring people know that, no matter how much knowledge they may possess, there's a MUCH vaster amount of knowledge they do not possess. And under every circumstance, they can take all things into consideration and do the best they are able at that time. But these types just want and relish control (and domination) for its own sake, and however they try to spin it, all else is just obfuscation and manipulation.
Sorry for the length of the post.
ADDED: Just saw your post, obyvatel.
