Mehran Keshe and Keshe Foundation Game Changer or Scam?

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Timótheos said:
Richard still hasn't directly answered Joe's question.

Richard's posts are quite bizarre. When I read his last one yesterday, considering the context of the entire thread and his post after the C's said it was a scam, the main thought that was forefront in my mind was that he sounds and acts like a US State Department spokesperson; that he'd make John Kirby blush.

His deliberately avoiding all important questions he has been asked that cut to the heart of the matter is almost an act of disrespect towards the group that comes from a kind of arrogance and aloofness; as if answering such questions is beneath him. And then the C's say "it's a scam" and he gives another strange post about how he's sorry about this and that - as though he felt he had to write something, like he felt he'd been ambushed or something?

Richard, I know this is yet another personal question and so may not merit any response in your eyes, but just what is going on with you? Where's your sincerity?
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
Richard S said:
You may not be aware that I also had legitimate doubts about the Keshe technology. I continued to investigate this even so, as IF it were proven to be legitimate it might be helpful to many of us. Yes, we all have lessons to learn, and perhaps this is one I needed to learn. I never had any intent of harming anyone here in any way, including your feeling that I didn't trust you.

No, you were quick to label me as a skeptic a couple of times. You used the term as if it was some kind of negative thing.
Skeptic: a person who questions the validity or authenticity of something purporting to be factual.

What doubts you had were rare to hear. I was angry at you that one time because you kept parroting what Keshe probably says to people who doubt him- Did you watch the videos blabla. And I did, and nothing was clarified. And you said it was because I don't have that kind of level of science.

Where was your doubt then? Why even on this forum, every specific question about him was skipped?

It's not a bad thing to go, "yes I was stubborn". That I can respect. But I can't respect how you're changing your image to seem like the level headed guy. I don't care if you or anyone else saw that I got angry, because if I was wrong- I was ready to admit it. This is a run around that I get a lot of times at work... from bosses who push an idea and ignore us- later to act like we over reacted. So what if we did, they still didn't listen and we had to pay the consequences!

Is Keshe legitimate? Does he deliver? Or is it just a matter of time until people realize that the case is otherwise and take action? We will have to wait and see...

This sums up what I was doing with this case. I would always be pleased to see a legitimate technology come along but at this point there continues to be a total lack of substantive evidence that the Keshe technology and theories are one of them.

But you talked to me like the theories were logical, etc. I did not see so and neither did others. But when we expressed that you were defending him, giving him more time for example. Look, he would have deserved more time if he didn't keep upping the ante. He's like the gambler who keeps doing double or nothing to save face- except with him I feel like he will run before they catch him.
 

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Okay. As Divide by Zero did earlier in the thread, I want to declare my own identifications; my own 'conflict of interest'.

Ten years ago, when I found the group, the main way I interacted with it was through what was known as Casschat. It was an email list, and Richard was the main moderator.

Richard was my first experience of an elder; a person who understood the work and applied it to themselves; the first person I knew who could remain detached and objective in the face of heated discussion; an exemplar of the aims and principles that I had so recently discovered but which, nevertheless, resonated with me on the deepest level.

And for the last ten years, that vision and perception of Richard had remained: Richard was always that person to me; that elder who showed a different way of being; that person who demonstrated what was possible in terms of progress in self-work.

And so, for me, this thread has been difficult to keep up with, and especially Richard's most recent posts.

I won't be posting any more in this thread, due to my identification. But I got to thinking about DBZ's honest and frank self-observations on all of this, and just wanted to share my own; for the sake of the network.
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
To have an open mind and to be gullible seem to be quite close to each other. What separates the two is the power of discernment. And often we have to operate with limited data, so just looking at the data is most likely going to be incomplete. I have made it a habit in such cases to look at the person and to try to put aside the data when I do that.

Do I think that "free energy" exists? Yes, I do - of course it's not free, it's just some other form of "resource" that science currently doesn't understand. It's some material or property that can be transformed into electricity, for instance. Petrol in itself is relatively useless, but can be transformed into something that is able to power engines. The science behind that is known.

Do I think that we will see such an abundant, almost inexhaustible form of energy in our lifetime? Possibly, but I highly doubt that, as the PTB have a vested interest in the status quo. Or as the Cs said, we are not ready as a species for such technology. As nice as this would be, it would most likely end in disaster, with more greed and corruption ruling then world.

Having said that, I approached Keshe with an open mind. I was willing to give him the benefit of doubt. But there were instantly some red flags, especially when looking at the person instead of at the data. He was not only selling an energy device, he was selling you the world - from star travel, to health, to energy - the whole shebang. This smacked of snake oil salesmanship or illusions of grandeur.

But still I gave him the benefit of the doubt regarding his energy device he was trying to SELL, so I wrote them an email to ask for more data. First it was quite difficult to get contact details from the website, which was another instant red flag. If you want to sell a product, you have to go out of your way to promote your product, and answering questions from potential new customers seems to me to be a no brainer. I finally found an email address of one of his related foundations, but of course I never got any reply.

This for me closed the case. I am still open to new information or data, but until that happens and the data or info is verifiable, I won't be changing my mind.

Now I understand where you are coming from - I have been roped into scams quite a number of times, and I don't think it's totally unlikely that it won't happen ever again. So for me the way forward is to examine my psychological understructure that makes me vulnerable to such scams, and a few things I found might be related to greed or want for power, or not feeling helpless or dependent. So if and when the next proposition pops up that almost sounds too good to be true, then I will have to look hard for these psychological factors that might influence my approach to this proposition.

Another crucial point is networking. If I am able to present this proposition to the network, you will get a much wider input and assessment that you would be able to do on your own. And you might find out a few things about yourself in the process.

Richard, for me it doesn't really matter how and why you got roped into this scam. And I suspect, it might be the same for some or many others in this thread. But it may matter a whole lot for you, because if you have subscribed to do the Work - well that's exactly it: to find out, what the psychological underpinnings of our actions are, at least that's my current understanding.

So I can only encourage you for YOURSELF to have a hard look and make any sense of this whole saga.

Best of luck!
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
TC, I too see Richard as an elder to this day. He's helped me a lot and is active here.

My gut wrenches when there's a silence, like I feel bad- like we hurt his feelings.

But then I realize, wait a second- we're not here for that but to find the truth and maybe I'm a bad guy for getting angry but how else can you help?

I wouldn't have expressed it if it was someone I didn't believe in. The flat earth guys, like former member {name redacted}, they were hopeless to try to have a discussion with, that logic loop was way too convoluted.

T.C. said:
Okay. As Divide by Zero did earlier in the thread, I want to declare my own identifications; my own 'conflict of interest'.

Ten years ago, when I found the group, the main way I interacted with it was through what was known as Casschat. It was an email list, and Richard was the main moderator.

Richard was my first experience of an elder; a person who understood the work and applied it to themselves; the first person I knew who could remain detached and objective in the face of heated discussion; an exemplar of the aims and principles that I had so recently discovered but which, nevertheless, resonated with me on the deepest level.

And for the last ten years, that vision and perception of Richard had remained: Richard was always that person to me; that elder who showed a different way of being; that person who demonstrated what was possible in terms of progress in self-work.

And so, for me, this thread has been difficult to keep up with, and especially Richard's most recent posts.

I won't be posting any more in this thread, due to my identification. But I got to thinking about DBZ's honest and frank self-observations on all of this, and just wanted to share my own; for the sake of the network.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
I think that this is an example of what psychologist Carl Jung called being under the influence of an archetype. The basic theme was expressed by Ronald Schenk as

We think we have ideas, but from a more encompassing perspective, ideas have us, as if they were tents in which we found ourselves housed.

Free energy is an archetypal idea. People have a tendency to get obsessed with it. Some people go further than others. Even if it turns out to be a scam in the end, the leaders can be possessed by the idea and not necessarily be conscious con artists. To use Schenk's analogy, one gets trapped inside the tent without realizing that they are trapped. From a psychological perspective, it is less important whether the idea is realizable in practice or not - the dynamics are of more interest than the end result.

So I think Richard got trapped in the specific free energy tent named Keshe technology. If he indeed has come out of it, it is good for him. Many people do not. Justifications and narratives constructed afterwards as explanation may be of some value or not. I would say that if Richard has come out of the tent, he is likely to feel some energetic difference. Maybe not immediately but after some time, like one feels after gradually recovering from a bout of cold.
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Being emotional invested in a scam means you have to make a painful recovery. So I can imagine it isn't easy for Richard.

But true friends deliver shocks when appropriate. That is what it means to interact and respect their Higher Center. Shocks are the core of evolution. That's how you keep synergy on a soul level between people. Caring involves being honest with each other.

So for everyone's sake calling a spade a spade is necessary. This 'mirror' is also something that has to 'die' in you. So it's self-defeating to take it personal.

''All are just lessons'' And everyone has blind spots. This network exists for this reason. To help and point each other out to it and learn together. If situations like this weren't happening this Network wouldn't have been functioning properly and no progress would have been made.


So I hope that Richard understands this :flowers:
 

neema

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Hi Richard. I was thinking about it more and I like to share with you what I think happens with me when I am stubborn about something.

I think deep down it's simply an avoidance program running, preventing me from dealing with a needed lesson that I should face. It’s like a distraction. Perhaps a convenient way for me to avoid what I should deal with and instead leading me to focus on what I want to deal with. If that makes any sense.

It’s one thing to keep an open mind but as I am learning to see more every day, we are all where we need to be. Facing the challenges that are necessary in learning the “simple” lessons. I am sure that when the day comes to learn about alternative energy, it will come in a way that will seem so simple we would wonder why we never thought about it before. Not that we should stop input knowledge about theories, but not focusing on them too much.

For me it has always been if I only… then I would be able to, and so forth. It’s like an avoidance feedback loop. This always left me with an opening to become obsessive and stubbornly blind to the needed task, osit.

Imo this whole thread is an opportunity to see a possible opening for you and the rest of us, to help all move one step closer to being more objective. After all, as others have said, it’s all about the networking no?

Divide By Zero said:
snip...
The flat earth guys, like former member {name redacted}, they were hopeless to try to have a discussion with, that logic loop was way too convoluted.

Oh good god, we had a flat earth member! :shock:
 
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