Melatonin

Huxley said:
Gaby said:
Thought I would share my melatonin experiment... What seems to work the best is to nap after my night shifts. Then take melatonin for the night after the night shift. That will help me sleep profoundly and I can recover easier.

If I take melatonin on a consistent basis, then at some point it won't work. I would wake up every two hours or so. If I take melatonin sporadically, only when strictly needed, it works like a charm.

After listening to the Health and Wellness show on the importance of sleep ( http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottradionetwork/2015/07/17/the-health-and-wellness-show--17-july-2015--the-importance-of-sleep ), strangely enough on a night shift :scared:, i think i need to start implementing some form of supplement to get me through my week of nights.

Its becoming an option for me now to purchase some melatonin and cycle it on a 3 week cycle. So 1 week on (5 days) and two weeks off. But in all honesty, i dont want to become accustomed to the use of it given my young age, 23, and the other choices on the market.

Moving into a new property, we still havnt got blackout blinds fitted in the bed room but is on top priority. Also im purchasing some orange/red tinted glasses to wear when coming home from work to reduce my sunlight exposure so i can feel abit more tired. When im home and get in bed, i dont have trouble falling asleep - but this is due to the exhaustion itself from working a night shift.

Apart from the sleep hygiene improvements i can make, im looking for something to aid in the overall mood im in while on nights. So instead of melatonin, im thinking of cycling 5htp for the week of nights to target my mood instead of my sleep.
There was also some natural cortisol reducing supplements that can be taken along with some natural herbal tea's and essential oils that aid in sleep. Going to give the show another listen to note down the ones mentioned and check them out, unfortunately i didnt have a notepad handy.

So just looking for any advice in regards to melatonin alternatives, as im looking for things that will not help me get to sleep, but help my quality of sleep and mood when i awake.


I'm experimenting with Rhodiola rosea now and it seems to work. I take one capsule in the afternoon around 5 p.m. half an hour before my last meal.
 
I've taken melatonin once or twice a few months ago to see what would happen, but no noticeable effects. So last night I took a 6mg dose just to experiment. Result: I had the most vivid astral projection/lucid dream experience and it was awesome! ;D Like the C's said, it seems to provide a boost to your psychic abilities. I should also add that I've been diligently meditating (sitting practice during the day and also while going to bed at night) almost every day, so that may be why it is working in the first place.

Now on to my experience. It's pretty long (sorry about that), but I've started to write a dream journal with as much detail as I can remember. I wrote this out as soon as I woke up after the 'incident'. Excuse the formatting and typos please.

Here it goes:
Strangest Dream/OOBE: Night of Aug 24. Woke up from dream at 1.30am. Went to bed around 11.40pm. Took melatonin 6mg 30 minutes before going to bed. State of mind prior to sleeping was as usual.

Events (sequential order in that world)
1. Someone/something helping me to project/transition.
  • This part is the most difficult to remember. Don’t really remember how I went out of my body
    Vague recall of ‘beings’ helping me out. They felt ethereal.
    Next thing I know I’m somewhere else! The realization that I am not in my physical body made me hyper excited! I felt like an explorer in uncharted waters..

2. Old House
  • Some old house, was dark, but not scary. Was night time, house with many rooms, (probably an upper floor too?).
    Meeting my ‘mentor’, a guy who lives in this house. Gave me the impression of being an old man, don’t remember his face clearly. I ‘came into’ this house after my transition.
    I was very excited about being out I asked him a million questions. His demeanor was that of an old man trying to help but dealing with an overenthusiastic student. But he did give me a lot of tips. Also told me a little about that world and its rules, none of which I remember after awakening.
    I was following him everywhere like a puppy, and he was trying to make me sit in one place. As he walked (or floated?), I barged in with him to one of his rooms. He had a creepy daughter, sitting in the dark. But she was friendly to me and me to her. There was an adjoining room that opened to his room and it was closed shut. I wanted to go in there too, but he strictly warned me no to. I had the impression something big and dangerous (like a yeti) was behind the door, so I quickly backed away.
3. Large carnival/celebration
  • Day time, clear and pleasant weather.
    Major celebration going on, not unlike the scene from KOTR. People walking around, it was like a carnival.
    Still in my excited state, I was walking around talking to everyone I could see.
    Tried flying and a few similar things since I knew I wasn’t in my physical body. Can’t recall success or failure in this
4. Vaguely remember talking to random people. Also took part in some of their activities/missions (not sure exactly what – don’t recall) that required use of senses/faculties that were common knowledge to them, but not to me (mind reading for example). Vaguely recall being successful in some, at which point I was very proud of myself, even more so because the people thought I was a ‘local’ of that world. In some situations I had to tell them I was actually only a day old in their world. Ofcourse I knew that only a few hours had passed since I came to this ‘city’, but I somehow felt I shouldn’t tell them that. Most people I told that to were impressed I could do these things considering I didn’t have much time to learn them.

5. Failed in some of these activities miserably, leading them to look at me in a very strange way. “how can you not know how to do this???!!” they thought I should be like them (probably looked like them) and also probably thought I was a retard.

6. Still at the carnival, this Chinese lady approaches me, very petite wearing some kind of light green silk flowing dress up to her thighs. The impression I got from her was that of a smooth talking sales girl who is only after the next sales deal. Was urging me to buy/consider something but I wasn’t interested. Moved on talking to more people and exploring the carnival.

7. Indian girl whom I met at the carnival
  • Looking for my next victim whom I could talk to death, found this very indian looking girl wearing an expensive looking cream colored saree with broad embroidered borders, with a matching clutch in her hand, wearing matching white high heeled shoes. Looked like someone important. She gave me a glance and I did a double take, then went to her. She looked mid-30s, neatly dressed, make up.
    She said, I think I know you from somewhere, have we met? I said I am not sure, but you seem to be familiar to me too. Noticed she had a 10 year old looking girl child with her, her hair tied neatly into 2 ponytails, smiling in the background.
    We started walking together, talking and passed an archway that looked either like it was the entrance of a church or mortuary (huge grill arch gates in some kind of floral design) – I couldn’t decide what. A man passed by and I asked her is that your husband. She laughed and said no, let me take you to him. He approached ahead, a man with a white beard, looking in his 60s. We talked, he was very friendly.
    After a while, I told him I have to leave as I had a lot of exploring to do. He took me back to the main road through a back alley, quite cleanly kept. We parted ways and I was on my own again, still excited to explore!

8. As I was crossing the street in a small intersection, remember thinking if I ran into a speeding car would it hit me or not (or would it hurt?). Turned to the left to see Chinese girl who I met at the carnival, also crossing the street, leaving the carnival. It looked like the carnival was over and people were slowly drifting off. She started her sales pitch about something again, and I refused her and moved on again.

9. Remember (vaguely) talking to 2 friends having (what looks like) a beer and we strike up a conversation. At this point I ask them to tell me something interesting about this place since I am new here (and only a day old, I told them). Not sure if it was in the carnival or after I left that scene.
  • They said, everyone in this city has to go get their ‘time punched’, every day. Every punch was a reset of the time they would have left in the day. I sensed that I probably would need to go there to later in the day. The way to do that was also very specific – go to the train station, take a particular train, go through a series of travellators (down) into the basement and you’ll find him. There might be a queue and you may have to wait.
    I thought that was weird. What kind of people live like this, I thought. Anyhow I politely excused myself and thanked them for the additional information. I also had to tell them I was just a few hours old in their world.
10. Walking through the city, I looked up at the sun through the trees, shining brightly. Felt like late afternoon. Felt like new york city. Bustling, busy and full of people from different races.
  • Passed the ‘Caucasian’ quarter, through roadside shops selling stuff. Walked until I reached the ‘indian’ quarter, with indian shops and people dressed accordingly.
    As I walked, if I started into people’s faces long enough they would change into someone else. Very confusing. I remember trying to will the face to change to people I know (back in the physical world) as a game, but it never worked. Have to learn a lot about this place and its rules, I thought to myself.
    Suddenly the indian quarter ended and it seemed like I was in some seedier part of town, the color of the scene changing to bluish. A few guys from all directions suddenly encircled me, recognizing I was not a ‘local' resident of that world. At first I lied that I was, but that didn’t work. Seems they wanted what was left of the time for me in that day so they could increase theirs. I sensed that if they took it away then I would be back into my body. I tried to bargain with them but they didn’t listen. Started to beat me up, but it didn’t really hurt. In the process, I started to get furious and was about to hit them back when I realized that I had left the scene.

11. Felt myself drifting back and the next thing I feel is my physical body again and a strange sensation in my lower left abdomen, approximately near my kidney. I felt that, that is where I got hit the hardest and it transferred into my physical as a strange fuzzy feeling. But it went away in a minute.

12. I woke up, fully awake and wishing I had been a little more street smart.
Sensations in the ‘other’ world.
• Physical: Physically fine, feeling great actually.
• Mental: Very sound, can reason and think clearly, know that I am not in my body. Trying my best to prolong the experience as much as I can. Can also remember the literature I had read on the subject while in my physical body. But didn’t stop to think if I could be dreaming. I knew I was not, and my body was sleeping somewhere else. Probably has to do with things I don’t remember at this moment that made me so sure.
• Emotional: Exhilarated, thrilled. Like a whole new world has opened up to me. Felt like an explorer in a strange land. In hindsight it looks like a got a little too carried away, like a kid in a candy store. Made some stupid decisions (see below).

Parting thoughts & analysis
• I astral projected into a different world, with different rules. People were generally like in the physical world, but they had additional ‘super sixth senses’ (like ESP for example) that we don’t have. The technology of the place seemed to be set somewhere in the near future of our world. Attitudes of people I met were generally friendly.
• The change of scene and how it happened – don’t remember. But I have the distinct impression it was my own choice and effort.
• That world itself had a peculiar quality. It was solid, and not at the same time. For example, a car passing by the street looks and feels just like in the physical, but if you turned your gaze somewhere else and then looked back for one second, it has now transformed into a bus.
• So things seemed to change if your mind was pre-occupied. Focus of thoughts and feelings was very important to maintain stability of the outside world.
• The passage of time was unremarkable. I had a clear sense of time passing just like in the physical world. But I also sensed that the longer I was able to prolong my stay in that world, the more I would learn. The entire experience after the ‘house’ scene felt like a training exercise. It may be I went to the subsequent scenes to learn something specific, being guided by the old man.
• Time was money in that world. The attack on me by those thugs and my previous conversations with the 2 guys proved that. The ‘distribution’ of time to the population was by some central authority, and I sensed that ‘he’ was quite powerful.
• I feel like this is not even half of what happened, rest is fuzzy. Memory recall could be better. In the transition into this reality from the other one, some of the experiences were lost.
• Looking at the my room now as I type (physically), slight bleed through effect for a short while. The things/objects in the world that we take for granted (like the coffee table in the living room that is always there) as solid suddenly look like they might ‘shift’ or morph into something else.
• Mind is unusually clear, no thoughts chatter. Ability to articulate in my mind clearly than before. This only lasted an hour or so though.
 
This came out from Univadis today (mainstream medical news service):

Migraine prevention: melatonin 3 mg better than amitriptyline 25 mg

16 May 16
Clinical Essentials from J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry
CURATED BY
Laurie Barclay, MD

Takeaway
Melatonin 3 mg is as effective as and more tolerable than amitriptyline 25 mg for migraine prevention.
Study design
After a 4-wk baseline phase, 196 participants (aged 18-65 y, with migraine with or without aura, 2-8 attacks/mo) were randomly assigned to receive placebo, amitriptyline 25 mg, or melatonin 3 mg.
178 patients took study medication and were followed for 12 wk.

Key results

Mean headache frequency reduction (primary endpoint) was 2.7 migraine headache days for melatonin, 2.2 for amitriptyline (P=.19), and 1.1 for placebo (P=.009).
Patients receiving melatonin (54.4%) vs amitriptyline (39.1%) had more than 50% reduction in migraine frequency (P<.05).
Tolerability was better for melatonin vs amitriptyline.
There were 46 adverse events (none serious) reported with amitriptyline, 16 with melatonin, and 17 with placebo.
Weight decreased with melatonin, increased slightly with placebo, and increased significantly with amitriptyline.

Encouraging to see that this is being studied and taken seriously.
 
FWIW, study - The Effect of Melatonin on Thrombosis, Sepsis and Mortality Rate in COVID-19 Patients

Highlights:

Melatonin may be beneficial in preventing complications in patients with COVID-19.

Melatonin can be used to reduce the mortality rate in patients with COVID-19.

Melatonin may be beneficial as an adjuvant therapy in patients with COVID-19.

Abstract:
The purpose of this study is to determine the effect of melatonin on thrombosis, sepsis, and mortality rate in adult patients with severe coronavirus infection (COVID-19).

Conclusions: Adjuvant use of Melatonin may help reduce thrombosis, sepsis, and mortality in COVID-19 patients.
 
I am using melatonine for about 8-9 years constantly. If I use it everyday for a 2-3 weeks ( 3mg before sleep) I get a opposite effect. I cant sleep and I feel so fresh during the night. That is the sign that I have to stop with Melatonin for a few days, maybe a week sometimes. Then I can take it again for some time. If I can have a deep sleep overnight and if I wake up fresh in the morning it is a sign that I don't need Melatonin in that time period.
Recently I had some gastritis issues and I did a little research about any connections between Melatonin and how it influences gastritis.
I found some interesting information that really surprised me:
Melatonin (MT) and its precursor L-tryptophan (TRP) are implicated in the protection of gastric mucosa against aspirin-induced lesions and in the acceleration of healing of idiopathic gastro-duodenal ulcers, but no information is available whether these agents are also effective in healing of gastroduodenal ulcers accompanied by Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) infection

Many patients are aware that melatonin may improve insomnia, but few are aware of its beneficial impact on the gastrointestinal tract. We think of melatonin only as the hormone produced in the brain by the pineal gland, yet far more melatonin is actually made by enteroendocrine cells that line the digestive tract.
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Bowel habits follow clear circadian rhythms, and it is melatonin that regulates this timing. Dietary L-tryptophan increases blood levels of melatonin, even in animals that have had their pineal glands removed. L-tryptophan is converted to serotonin that in turn is converted into melatonin. The nighttime surge in melatonin comes from the pineal gland, but the gastrointestinal tract maintains baseline levels. Melatonin levels in the gut are 10 to 100 times higher than in the blood.1

This is not the first study to report melatonin has benefit in treating H pylori. In 2 studies published in 2011, Celinski et al reported that either melatonin or L-tryptophan helps heal gastric and duodenal ulcers resulting from H pylori infections in humans. They gave all patients omeprazole 20 mg twice a day and then added either melatonin (5 mg 2x/d) or tryptophan (250 mg 2x/d). Both melatonin and tryptophan sped healing compared to omeprazole alone

Melatonin is used in many countries to improve sleep disorders. Melatonin is a hormone produced by the pineal gland and enterochromaffin cells which control sleep and gastrointestinal motility. Low levels of melatonin lead to gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD). Most of patients with GERD have a sleep disorder. So, low melatonin levels is the main cause of insomnia. Beyond this, it has an inhibitory action on gastric acid secretion and seems to control the lower esophageal sphincter. Proton pump inhibitors (PPIs) are a group of drugs whose main action is a pronounced and long-lasting reduction of gastric acid production. They are the most potent inhibitors of acid secretion available today. Omeprazole (one of the PPIs) and melatonin have similarities in their chemical structures. Therefore, we could consider omeprazole as a rough copy of melatonin. In this paper, we compare the advantages and disadvantages of the clinical use of melatonin and PPIs
 
I tried melatonin about ten years ago.
I have never had any problems sleeping or falling asleep.
I took 2mg the first night and it went well.
I did the same the next night but the day after that still leaves me with a bad memory. It's like walking next to my shoes.
So I didn't take any more.
Not long ago I wanted to try again because I had bought some for my daughter in spray. 6 sprays correspond to 1 dose of 1.9 mg.
I had just taken 1 spray (0.31mg) but I didn't continue.
As I have had covid since Monday night, I wanted to try it last night in addition to my supplements to fight against the virus.
I took 2 sprays (0.62). It was a disaster!
I woke up shortly afterwards completely soaked. Even the hollows of my forearms were dripping with water. I was a bit agitated and went back to sleep, but not for long.
I had a nightmare where I felt very insecure, a bit anxious, and I woke up. I had to get up for a while because this feeling of insecurity persisted.
I told myself that I would never touch melatonin again!
Then, this morning, I was hesitating between persisting in trying 0.31mg or really not taking it at all.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 
I tried melatonin about ten years ago.
I have never had any problems sleeping or falling asleep.
I took 2mg the first night and it went well.
I did the same the next night but the day after that still leaves me with a bad memory. It's like walking next to my shoes.
So I didn't take any more.
Not long ago I wanted to try again because I had bought some for my daughter in spray. 6 sprays correspond to 1 dose of 1.9 mg.
I had just taken 1 spray (0.31mg) but I didn't continue.
As I have had covid since Monday night, I wanted to try it last night in addition to my supplements to fight against the virus.
I took 2 sprays (0.62). It was a disaster!
I woke up shortly afterwards completely soaked. Even the hollows of my forearms were dripping with water. I was a bit agitated and went back to sleep, but not for long.
I had a nightmare where I felt very insecure, a bit anxious, and I woke up. I had to get up for a while because this feeling of insecurity persisted.
I told myself that I would never touch melatonin again!
Then, this morning, I was hesitating between persisting in trying 0.31mg or really not taking it at all.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
All I can say is that melatonin, according the C's, is a mild hallucinogenic. So it could explain your nightmare since you're not used to take it.

For the antiviral properties, it's more in the range of 5 mg, even 10 mg, so you're far from it.

I hope some others more knowledgeable will answer you and wish you to feel better very soon. :-)
 
I woke up shortly afterwards completely soaked. Even the hollows of my forearms were dripping with water.
I regularly take 5mg of melatonin before bed.
I have never slept much, and taking melatonin did not significantly increase my sleep duration, but I sleep more soundly and wake up more serene.
Working nights, I can usually get up whenever I want. But melatonin or not, I sleep longer at the beginning of the week (7 to 9 hours), and less and less as the days go by until the weekend, when I sleep very little (3 to 4 hours). I think it's psychological. I want to enjoy my weekend at the expense of my sleep.
I don't have a problem falling asleep in general since doing EE. My problem now is sleeping long enough and not waking up all the time. If I wake up after 3 hours of sleep, it is very difficult, if not impossible, for me to go back to sleep when it is in the middle or at the end of the week.

Recently, I increased the doses to experiment. No difference until I took 10mg. I was also completely soaked and dripping with water about two hours after. But then I fell back to sleep very soundly and slept longer than usual. (I did it for a week).
I didn't find the experience unpleasant except for excessive sweating. I feel like my sleep was more "restorative". I even wondered if the perspiration was not due to cleaning the body.

Eventually I went back to my usual 5mg.
 
All I can say is that melatonin, according the C's, is a mild hallucinogenic. So it could explain your nightmare since you're not used to take it.

For the antiviral properties, it's more in the range of 5 mg, even 10 mg, so you're far from it.

I hope some others more knowledgeable will answer you and wish you to feel better very soon. :-)
Thank you.
I had read the whole thread before posting my reply. I wanted to know if anyone had experienced similar effects with such small doses. I read about the mild hallucinations. I also saw that Laura tolerated it very little at first.
I didn't dare take a large dose. I had enough of the disease and didn't want to put up with violent side effects on top of it.😅
 
like some reported anything above physiological levels(300-500mcg) wakes me up at the middle of the night and I can sleep no longer, i wonder if one of the reasons is that by accelerating the cleaning processes and all that you are essentially "sleeping faster"? but then doesn't feel natural to me...
and weird dreams don't compensate for it xD

idk if has been posted here but at these smaller dosages timing matters:

 
like some reported anything above physiological levels(300-500mcg) wakes me up at the middle of the night and I can sleep no longer, i wonder if one of the reasons is that by accelerating the cleaning processes and all that you are essentially "sleeping faster"? but then doesn't feel natural to me...
and weird dreams don't compensate for it xD

idk if has been posted here but at these smaller dosages timing matters:

that's what I figured. Before I paid attention to the forum's research on the topic, I first heard of it from my ex (who was quite experienced with prescription psychotropics, but had settled down to basic supplements) and she swore that melatonin's effectiveness had some inverse relationship to dosage. She had a couple years of serious insomnia after a concussion (hence the experience with prescription psychotropics) and she could 'megadose' on it to no avail, even 12mg (her prescribed dosage) would not help her sleep (nor did she report any significant side-effects), but 3mg clearly did. In all likelyhood, there is a fine balance between stabilizing your day/night hormonal cycle, or peaking the cycle in a way that is no longer effective.

I wouldn't know though, considering her experience I only ever took 3mg at a time, and even that not often enough to establish the effects from my own experience. But you're right, melatonin timing and minimal dosage might be the most important factors in its effectiveness.
 
that's what I figured. Before I paid attention to the forum's research on the topic, I first heard of it from my ex (who was quite experienced with prescription psychotropics, but had settled down to basic supplements) and she swore that melatonin's effectiveness had some inverse relationship to dosage. She had a couple years of serious insomnia after a concussion (hence the experience with prescription psychotropics) and she could 'megadose' on it to no avail, even 12mg (her prescribed dosage) would not help her sleep (nor did she report any significant side-effects), but 3mg clearly did. In all likelyhood, there is a fine balance between stabilizing your day/night hormonal cycle, or peaking the cycle in a way that is no longer effective.

I wouldn't know though, considering her experience I only ever took 3mg at a time, and even that not often enough to establish the effects from my own experience. But you're right, melatonin timing and minimal dosage might be the most important factors in its effectiveness.
mine comes in 10mg pills and i find ridiculous, used to dissolve it in a dropper/water bottle and take 1/30 of that

another overlooked issue I've heard from my pharmacist about the tonic/phasic effect is the interaction with oxytocin receptors and desensitization/emotional blunting at superphysiological doses
 
I tried melatonin about ten years ago.
I have never had any problems sleeping or falling asleep.
I took 2mg the first night and it went well.
I did the same the next night but the day after that still leaves me with a bad memory. It's like walking next to my shoes.
So I didn't take any more.
Not long ago I wanted to try again because I had bought some for my daughter in spray. 6 sprays correspond to 1 dose of 1.9 mg.
I had just taken 1 spray (0.31mg) but I didn't continue.
As I have had covid since Monday night, I wanted to try it last night in addition to my supplements to fight against the virus.
I took 2 sprays (0.62). It was a disaster!
I woke up shortly afterwards completely soaked. Even the hollows of my forearms were dripping with water. I was a bit agitated and went back to sleep, but not for long.
I had a nightmare where I felt very insecure, a bit anxious, and I woke up. I had to get up for a while because this feeling of insecurity persisted.
I told myself that I would never touch melatonin again!
Then, this morning, I was hesitating between persisting in trying 0.31mg or really not taking it at all.

I've never heard of anyone reacting like this, especially to such small doses. Have you ever had a similar reaction to another substance? And do you normally experience reactions to foods, meds or supplements?

You said that you never had any sleeping issues, maybe the reaction was a result of your body not needing more than it produces itself, thus reacting to the amount you took as if it was an overdose? It's really hard to say.

I used to take 2.5mg of melatonin for a few years until last summer I started to feel really tired during the day, I couldn't fall asleep in the evening, I felt agitated and my thinking was scattered. I would also wake up groggy and struggle to get out of bed in the morning. Then in August, after well over a month of trying to figure out what the trigger for the fatigue was, I decided to lower the melatonin dose to 1mg. It solved the problem almost immediately. I guess my body decided it didn't need a higher dose anymore. Maybe your body just doesn't need any dose and it overreacts in such a spectacular manner?

Other root causes could be taking other supplements or medications that don't agree with melatonin. Were you taking any when you experience the symptoms you described? This would be quite strange since melatonin is naturally produced in our bodies so it's a super safe substance to take. But maybe there were other ingredients in your melatonin that didn't agree with your body?

And did you try different brands of melatonin? I have my favourite ones that seem to do more for me than others. Did you also try taking different forms?

All in all, since you don't need melatonin to sleep I'd say it would be best to just ditch it. As for the virus, there are other antivirals that will help you much quicker, if you'd like me to point you to where they were discussed just let me know.
 
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