Need assistance with interpreting the channeling transcripts

[Andrey]

You mean you don't know if the concept that human beings have the capacity to be more or less self-centered or selfless is a 'real thing'? Sounds like you might be overthinking some things.

Actually I mistyped what I meant to say. I can definitely work with the STS-STO duality as a semi-abstract concept, however as far as believing that there are entire realms of existence or societies that can only be labeled as either one or the other is something I have been a bit skeptical about lately. I look at humanity, I mostly see complex personalities who exhibit both STS as well as STO qualities. From my observations, this group has more or less come up with lists of traits and characteristics that supposedly belong to either side. Wishful thinking, Desires, Wants, Motivation, Taking energy and not giving any back, etc., is called "STS", and to participate in these things is supposedly feeding the STS dynamic and giving more power to the hypothetical STS hierarchy that take these traits to an extreme. And an STO society supposedly (we speculate) thrives on mutual exchange of energy, decentralization, balance, etc. And the idea is that you can't have a society that contains elements of both STS and STO... I have been reading the information provided by this group for awhile now, so don't get me wrong.. it definitely sorta makes sense. I'm just trying to think with a hammer contemplating this whole thing (or like you said... maybe I'm overthinking).

My only issue right now regarding the whole STO-STS thing is wondering where some of the basic elements of humanism come into the picture here. Human nature is the way it is. It is imperfect, but human nature has both good and bad in it and we have a wide spectrum of personalities that range from extremely good to extremely evil with lots of complex shades of gray here. We speculate about how it could be or should be, and have theories about how it was in some distant past, but these are all theories, and we can definitely invoke inspiration from many different areas, but what we see in front of us is what it is, and it is a very complex picture where it's not always so easy to label someone or something a certain way.

I also find it somewhat contradictory that we are using STS traits to be STO... sort of like the old buddhist paradox where you desire to have no desire. I understand that we can only ever be STO candidates as long as we are in third density, but I feel a lot of inner turmoil within myself when I have desires and wants and needs and so on and find myself going after them damn near unconsciously and simultaneously contemplating how I can be more STO, etc. Sometimes when I find myself for a few days completely lacking the desire for something that used to occupy my mind endlessly for years, it feels like a huge time wasting burden has been lifted off my shoulders and I feel relief... but slowly and surely these desires come back and I find myself in inner turmoil and full of contradiction again. Eventually, I rationalize and intellectualize the whole thing.

Well, to be completely blunt with you all, I get mad sometimes that I can't go after what I want and desire because it is considered STS, and I guess this is the root of my skepticism. I think I have a basic inborn sensibility for good and bad.. and if I feel like indulging in something as long as nobody is getting hurt, what's the big deal? I'm not saying I feel like this all the time. The idealist in me won't let me feel like that all the time, but the humanist in me thinks it's okay to indulge, but gradually work towards an ideal and facilitate the life circumstances that will help me move towards that ideal. I am well aware of vampiric feeding of energy and so I try to be mindful of stuff like that. And try not to manipulate or deceive or lie to people.

And to be even more honest with you guys, I guess it boils down to this: I've had a life with many desires and needs that have been unfulfilled (won't give examples.. use your imagination!). I see so many people in the spiritual community living a "spiritual" life but have had the chance to experience and fulfill their desires in the past. I just wonder how much spiritual integrity these same people would have if they never experienced those things. Would they still walk the walk? I am skeptical if they could. It's easy to be spiritual and talk the talk and even walk the walk if you're financially stable or in a more or less fulfilling relationship for example and all your needs are taken care of. How "spiritual" could these same people get when self-preservation is at risk and survival is the name of the game? It just seems sometimes that at our core we are actually animals... carnal beings in our essence.. and all this spiritual, intellectual and mental development that we imagine separates us from our 2nd density friends is all a big lie to hide from ourselves the fact that we would be the same as them if we were presented with circumstances that threaten our sense of self-preservation..

Well, despite my lack of desires unfulfilled, I try to be STO regardless, but I ... just ... can't!... it seems... my wants and desires torment me and I just want to leave all this spiritual stuff behind sometimes and just focus on everything I want and desire and motivate myself to go after those things (and believe me, my wants and desires are very benign.. I don't need much)... but when I do that it just seems off... i usually cringe at myself when I think like that.... but living a life of spiritual integrity is also extremely difficult for me because I feel like I've missed out on what it means to be human and what am I really doing with all this abstract spiritual stuff that goes against the very fabric of existence it seems sometimes (though I totally get that sentiment in the whole gnostic kind of way). So I feel like I'm in some kind of purgatory.

So far all I see possible is being an obyvatel (which I'm not but I'm tryin to be), getting my life organized, and eventually being in a state psychologically where I can be ready for real esoteric development, which I hope to one day be blessed with one day if I play my cards right. I admit I'm kind of selfish in that I care only about my own self development. I understand the whole STO thing and I'm totally into the whole concept, but like gurdjieff said, I think once I get to "self-mastery" level I can't do something worthwhile.

Anyways, just some stream of consciousness typing here.. I don't participate much on this forum because I have ideas like this. And I can't stand hypocrisy and I definitely feel hypocritical a lot of times when I do research on spiritual subjects but simultaneously can't stop thinking about things that are antithetical to these spiritual ideals. I'm always being pulled into a million different directions, all contradicting each other. I've read fourth way works, and I understand what is happening here, but I really don't know where to begin and who to network with (and to be totally frank I don't trust ya'll). I just want to clean my machine, get my diet and health right, do some psychology work, be an obyvatel, and hopefully after many years organizing and mastering mundane life, be in a state where I can do some real esoteric work... but I can't reach that state without also pursuing some basic wants, needs and desires, and motivating myself, and so on (which according to the C's are "STS")... so you can understand my frustration when I read in the transcripts that "want is STS" or "it is STS to desire" or "motivation is STS" and so on... I don't know what to do with that information. Am I supposed to just sit under a tree for the rest of my life and hope my desires and wants fade away?!

I do understand we are what we are (STS beings) and we can't be otherwise, but sometimes it seems we are supposed to deny our nature in favor of something ideal but unreachable, so what do we do? Doesn't it seem contradictory that we're promotng something that is antithetical to what we truly are in our core?

Not to mention it IS kind of suspect that an entire society can only be labeled STS or STO. Sounds like a scam to me at this point. consciousness is too complex to be put into one of these labels. I hear a person pouring their soul out in whichever form they feel comfortable and I don't see "STS" or "STO" at all... I see a complex personality that is trying their best to self-actualize.

With that being said, I adit that "STO-STS" concept is a useful concept to work with and contemplate, as well as all the characteristics associcated with them and so on, but as far as labeling EVERYTHING in "this is too STS" or this is "STO" and so on is off the mark and I hope we can transcend such things. Anyways, I'm done here.

 

[Joe]

And the idea is that you can't have a society that contains elements of both STS and STO...

I don't think that's an idea we have. I'm pretty sure 4D is meant to be a mix of both, although there probably isn't much mixing going on except at the edges that blend. I also think that on earth, almost all people are STS, but there are many degrees of that, so you could call that a kind of mixing. In fact, consider the differences in "spirituality" between any two people on this planet.

I also find it somewhat contradictory that we are using STS traits to be STO

That's not contradictory. It's the idea that, if you're primarily a self-serving person, then you can use that self-interest to try to divest yourself of the self-interest, especially the self-interest that is not in alignment with 'who you really are'. Takes some figuring out.

Well, to be completely blunt with you all, I get mad sometimes that I can't go after what I want and desire because it is considered STS, and I guess this is the root of my skepticism.

No one says you can't, and in fact, we recommend that you do precisely that, fwiw.

I think I have a basic inborn sensibility for good and bad.. and if I feel like indulging in something as long as nobody is getting hurt, what's the big deal?

Exactly, so carry on.

And to be even more honest with you guys, I guess it boils down to this: I've had a life with many desires and needs that have been unfulfilled (won't give examples.. use your imagination!). I see so many people in the spiritual community living a "spiritual" life but have had the chance to experience and fulfill their desires in the past. I just wonder how much spiritual integrity these same people would have if they never experienced those things. Would they still walk the walk? I am skeptical if they could.

Yeah, that's a good point. For someone to be truly "spiritual", they have to have seen the 'other side', to know what they are choosing, or not choosing.

It just seems sometimes that at our core we are actually animals... carnal beings in our essence.. and all this spiritual, intellectual and mental development that we imagine separates us from our 2nd density friends is all a big lie to hide from ourselves the fact that we would be the same as them if we were presented with circumstances that threaten our sense of self-preservation..

That may be. I suppose the only way to find out is to be in that kind of life or death situation to see how you act. That reminds of something I read somewhere (Peterson I think), that soldiers who get PTSD from war are often not traumatized because of what was done to them or what they saw, but what they 'saw' themselves doing in a specific war situation. They are traumatized because their own (false) self-image was shattered by what they 'saw' themselves do that was no in alignment with that false self-image.

Well, despite my lack of desires unfulfilled, I try to be STO regardless, but I ... just ... can't!... it seems... my wants and desires torment me and I just want to leave all this spiritual stuff behind sometimes and just focus on everything I want and desire and motivate myself to go after those things

Don't try to be STO, just try to be the best version of yourself that you can imagine.

So I feel like I'm in some kind of purgatory.

Time to get outta there!

I admit I'm kind of selfish in that I care only about my own self development.

I don't think that's selfish, especially if your own self development involves being a person who has gathered lots of objective knowledge about the world, has developed their 'being' to a decent level, and has an impulse to share their findings with others who are seeking.

I just want to clean my machine, get my diet and health right, do some psychology work, be an obyvatel, and hopefully after many years organizing and mastering mundane life, be in a state where I can do some real esoteric work... but I can't reach that state without also pursuing some basic wants, needs and desires, and motivating myself, and so on (which according to the C's are "STS")... so you can understand my frustration when I read in the transcripts that "want is STS" or "it is STS to desire" or "motivation is STS" and so on... I don't know what to do with that information. Am I supposed to just sit under a tree for the rest of my life and hope my desires and wants fade away?!

Those statement from the transcripts were simply statements of 'what is', they were no meant as rules that anyone here is expected to live by. That said, I'm pretty sure it was never said that "motivation is STS", desire, yes. But again, that was just stating a fact, it wasn't meant as a lecture.

I do understand we are what we are (STS beings) and we can't be otherwise, but sometimes it seems we are supposed to deny our nature in favor of something ideal but unreachable, so what do we do? Doesn't it seem contradictory that we're promotng something that is antithetical to what we truly are in our core?

I think you already noted that you are not "STS are the core", but that it is a part of who you are, along with a more STO-leaning aspect. So the question is, are these two opposing natures compatible? Or is it a process of exploring both and in that process gradually figuring out which one you want to 'go with'?

 

[Wandering Star]

Actually I mistyped what I meant to say. I can definitely work with the STS-STO duality as a semi-abstract concept, however as far as believing that there are entire realms of existence or societies that can only be labeled as either one or the other is something I have been a bit skeptical about lately. I look at humanity, I mostly see complex personalities who exhibit both STS as well as STO qualities. From my observations, this group has more or less come up with lists of traits and characteristics that supposedly belong to either side. Wishful thinking, Desires, Wants, Motivation, Taking energy and not giving any back, etc., is called "STS", and to participate in these things is supposedly feeding the STS dynamic and giving more power to the hypothetical STS hierarchy that take these traits to an extreme. And an STO society supposedly (we speculate) thrives on mutual exchange of energy, decentralization, balance, etc. And the idea is that you can't have a society that contains elements of both STS and STO... I have been reading the information provided by this group for awhile now, so don't get me wrong.. it definitely sorta makes sense. I'm just trying to think with a hammer contemplating this whole thing (or like you said... maybe I'm overthinking).

My only issue right now regarding the whole STO-STS thing is wondering where some of the basic elements of humanism come into the picture here. Human nature is the way it is. It is imperfect, but human nature has both good and bad in it and we have a wide spectrum of personalities that range from extremely good to extremely evil with lots of complex shades of gray here. We speculate about how it could be or should be, and have theories about how it was in some distant past, but these are all theories, and we can definitely invoke inspiration from many different areas, but what we see in front of us is what it is, and it is a very complex picture where it's not always so easy to label someone or something a certain way.

I also find it somewhat contradictory that we are using STS traits to be STO... sort of like the old buddhist paradox where you desire to have no desire. I understand that we can only ever be STO candidates as long as we are in third density, but I feel a lot of inner turmoil within myself when I have desires and wants and needs and so on and find myself going after them damn near unconsciously and simultaneously contemplating how I can be more STO, etc. Sometimes when I find myself for a few days completely lacking the desire for something that used to occupy my mind endlessly for years, it feels like a huge time wasting burden has been lifted off my shoulders and I feel relief... but slowly and surely these desires come back and I find myself in inner turmoil and full of contradiction again. Eventually, I rationalize and intellectualize the whole thing.

Well, to be completely blunt with you all, I get mad sometimes that I can't go after what I want and desire because it is considered STS, and I guess this is the root of my skepticism. I think I have a basic inborn sensibility for good and bad.. and if I feel like indulging in something as long as nobody is getting hurt, what's the big deal? I'm not saying I feel like this all the time. The idealist in me won't let me feel like that all the time, but the humanist in me thinks it's okay to indulge, but gradually work towards an ideal and facilitate the life circumstances that will help me move towards that ideal. I am well aware of vampiric feeding of energy and so I try to be mindful of stuff like that. And try not to manipulate or deceive or lie to people.

And to be even more honest with you guys, I guess it boils down to this: I've had a life with many desires and needs that have been unfulfilled (won't give examples.. use your imagination!). I see so many people in the spiritual community living a "spiritual" life but have had the chance to experience and fulfill their desires in the past. I just wonder how much spiritual integrity these same people would have if they never experienced those things. Would they still walk the walk? I am skeptical if they could. It's easy to be spiritual and talk the talk and even walk the walk if you're financially stable or in a more or less fulfilling relationship for example and all your needs are taken care of. How "spiritual" could these same people get when self-preservation is at risk and survival is the name of the game? It just seems sometimes that at our core we are actually animals... carnal beings in our essence.. and all this spiritual, intellectual and mental development that we imagine separates us from our 2nd density friends is all a big lie to hide from ourselves the fact that we would be the same as them if we were presented with circumstances that threaten our sense of self-preservation..

Well, despite my lack of desires unfulfilled, I try to be STO regardless, but I ... just ... can't!... it seems... my wants and desires torment me and I just want to leave all this spiritual stuff behind sometimes and just focus on everything I want and desire and motivate myself to go after those things (and believe me, my wants and desires are very benign.. I don't need much)... but when I do that it just seems off... i usually cringe at myself when I think like that.... but living a life of spiritual integrity is also extremely difficult for me because I feel like I've missed out on what it means to be human and what am I really doing with all this abstract spiritual stuff that goes against the very fabric of existence it seems sometimes (though I totally get that sentiment in the whole gnostic kind of way). So I feel like I'm in some kind of purgatory.

So far all I see possible is being an obyvatel (which I'm not but I'm tryin to be), getting my life organized, and eventually being in a state psychologically where I can be ready for real esoteric development, which I hope to one day be blessed with one day if I play my cards right. I admit I'm kind of selfish in that I care only about my own self development. I understand the whole STO thing and I'm totally into the whole concept, but like gurdjieff said, I think once I get to "self-mastery" level I can't do something worthwhile.

Anyways, just some stream of consciousness typing here.. I don't participate much on this forum because I have ideas like this. And I can't stand hypocrisy and I definitely feel hypocritical a lot of times when I do research on spiritual subjects but simultaneously can't stop thinking about things that are antithetical to these spiritual ideals. I'm always being pulled into a million different directions, all contradicting each other. I've read fourth way works, and I understand what is happening here, but I really don't know where to begin and who to network with (and to be totally frank I don't trust ya'll). I just want to clean my machine, get my diet and health right, do some psychology work, be an obyvatel, and hopefully after many years organizing and mastering mundane life, be in a state where I can do some real esoteric work... but I can't reach that state without also pursuing some basic wants, needs and desires, and motivating myself, and so on (which according to the C's are "STS")... so you can understand my frustration when I read in the transcripts that "want is STS" or "it is STS to desire" or "motivation is STS" and so on... I don't know what to do with that information. Am I supposed to just sit under a tree for the rest of my life and hope my desires and wants fade away?!

I do understand we are what we are (STS beings) and we can't be otherwise, but sometimes it seems we are supposed to deny our nature in favor of something ideal but unreachable, so what do we do? Doesn't it seem contradictory that we're promotng something that is antithetical to what we truly are in our core?

Not to mention it IS kind of suspect that an entire society can only be labeled STS or STO. Sounds like a scam to me at this point. consciousness is too complex to be put into one of these labels. I hear a person pouring their soul out in whichever form they feel comfortable and I don't see "STS" or "STO" at all... I see a complex personality that is trying their best to self-actualize.

With that being said, I adit that "STO-STS" concept is a useful concept to work with and contemplate, as well as all the characteristics associcated with them and so on, but as far as labeling EVERYTHING in "this is too STS" or this is "STO" and so on is off the mark and I hope we can transcend such things. Anyways, I'm done here.

I'm going to tell you how I see it.

The fish in the dark, muddy pool does not question or think that there is a different habitat.

In the Ra (Law of One) material it is said that the third density experience is to make a choice, service to others or service to self.

In that same material, some percentages of acts carried out are given, which at certain moments enable someone to continue their learning in a fourth-density experience in one of the two ways.

The required percentage of STS acts performed is too high to graduate onto an STS path, perhaps because the environment facilitates STS activity.

The required STO percentage is lower, perhaps for the same reason. Being an STS environment, there is great resistance to overcome in order to perform genuine STO actions.

Our dark and muddy pond is what we know, so it is very difficult to imagine that there are other worlds in the universe in which the habitat is STO, that is, a world in which competition, selfishness and harm to others be something very rare.

In those worlds it may be the other way around and the environment has a greater resistance to perform STS acts, so its inhabitants would need a lower percentage of STS acts to choose that path.

Now..., if in your observation of the system that we have and of the people of the planet, you do not see the absolute exceptionality of the genuine acts STO...

In short, it's normal to think that, because there are so many good people..., right?

You'd be amazed at what really that good people do.

 

[Andrey]

Thank you for the replies, Joe and Wandering Star.

I guess I'm having errors in my thinking where I feel like I have to actualize these ideals (aka being STO, thinking selfless thoughts, being 100% selfless etc) right now, and whenever I fall short (all the time), I'm failing at this project. I have an subconscious inability to work towards something. Being a millennial with a history of problems with drugs and alcohol, I have subconsciously become very used to free lunches. Over two decades of instant gratification, not just from drugs and alcohol, but from other things like video games, sexual things, always getting whatever I wanted (as far as getting cheap thrills is concerned... having a normal life and growing up to be a mature person who can handle responsibilities etc., and being respected by my peers and family etc., is something I never accomplished and something I want to do). My mind is used to a certain standard of stimulation.

Point is, I see the road I need to walk in order to accomplish my aims and it is a very long road. I understand there are prerequisites and these prerequisites have their own prerequisites and so on, but I keep reaching for the top shelf items like magical and mysterious occult and esoteric literature because those are the things that stimulate me the most mentally. But I understand how important diet and health and psychology and organizing mundane life and being responsible and paying the bills and finding a way to help my family is... but these things are not as interesting as the harry potter type of world I want to live in. I've had a lot of magical experiences in my life.. I went to disney world in orlando when I was 8 or 9 years old. I really thought those people in the costumes were the actual cartoon characters. I've played some really awesome and magical video games in my life that took me to fantasy worlds.. I've had experiences while on drugs that took me to fantasy realities. I've had high strangeness magical moments with friends and romantic partners that blew my mind. When I first came into researching into spirituality related topics about 8 or 9 years ago, my goal was to somehow bring these fantastic impressions into reality so I got into researching occultism and magick, etc., and I guess subconsciously I'm still kind of trying to do that. Eventually as I learned more and more and came across sites like these, I learned that the things I was interested in is risky business spiritually, and I think I now have a decent grasp on what I need to do in order to develop myself gradually, and if possible do some real esoteric Work on myself somewhere down the line, and it is possible that won't even be possible for me, and the best I can hope for is to be a responsible obyvatel. But I'm not giving up hope. I want to try my best.

But my brain is still wired towards trying to turn my reality into how I felt when I was in disney world as a kid, and I have a tough time doing mundane things in general and even tougher time trying to be helpful to others when in my head I'm a little angry for some reason that the person talking to me isn't speaking in rhymes to me! Like... i get depressed that my life isn't a musical or something.

It's because of over two decades of overstimulation with all kinds of entertainment I guess. How do I detox from this mentality? I think I know what I OUGHT to be doing, but like a machine I mechanically am drawn to something stimulating but ultimately unhealthy for my development. Anyways, just sort of rambling at this point. thank you for the replies. I will try my best to put it all together and do better.

Also in my earlier post, when I said I don't trust ya'll, please don't take it the wrong way. I have severe trust issues with everything, the details of which is beyond the scope of this thread. Maybe one day I will open up and share what has been happening in my life over the past 5-6 years. I still trust this place more than most other places, but there is still a LOT of paranoia. It sucks. Anyways just wanted to say that.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Candice]

We live in a time where every materialistic excess is merely a buttons push away. It’s never been easier to immerse oneself in physicality, to satiate one’s every desire, to lose oneself in illusions, delusions and indulgence to the max.

Maybe that’s why some of us chose to reincarnate during this time. To once and for all lose ourselves in the abyss or choose something else. That choice can’t be forced or coerced. It’s an innate choice, it’s a natural leaning in one direction or another.

Some need a serious shock to question their life’s path and some need lots of little shocks, and often the shocks are ignored.

But it needs to be a natural choice not forced just because a book or guru said one needs to follow certain rules or restrictions on desire. I’ve known people like that, that forced themselves to give up meat, sex, alcohol etc. to become more “spiritual”. All it did was cause them to become unbalanced in other ways, desire other things until it all unraveled.

You’ll know what it feels like to be satiated, to have had your full, to feel like something is missing, not a material need but something purer, like a melody just out of earshot.

To even hear that melody, you need to be clear, to be clear you need to not be dissociating, to not be dissociating you need to be doing the Work.

That boring mundane stuff, like cleaning your room, exercise, diet, working on relationships, observing your thoughts and emotions, EE, networking, reading, working on goals etc. ALL help to expand awareness, when awareness expands it IS a magical experience unlike any drug or material substance can reproduce.

You just being curious, asking questions, and being vulnerable enough to share very personal information is a great step on a journey. Just pick something that you’re interested in putting energy into and learning, may it be health or may it be EE or psychology. No pressure to be STO or perfect, none of us are. You’ll most likely go up some steps and tumble down some, with more networking and more learning you’ll see things from different angles.

Have you read any of the recommended psychology books? They’re great in working out why we operate the way we do, why our programs exist related to needing to dissociate. When we learn how our machines work, again awareness of not only ourselves but beyond expands.

Unfortunately there’s no magic wand short cut, and where would the fun be in that?

 

[heinrich]

Hello.

I'm currently working my way through the Wave series. Halfway through "Stripped to the Bone" currently. In the past, when I first came across the transcripts in it's raw form (and that was before I came across this forum), I went through a bit of a "true believer" syndrome, in that I believed literally everything that was explicated in the sessions. Eventually, I learned that not everything in the transcripts is true, so the natural inclination was to be more critical. This eventually lead to being a bit too rigidly skeptical to the point where potentially valid information was being doubted.

I'm at a point where I don't know how to interpret what is true. Before starting on the wave series, I scanned through a lot of threads on this forum, old and new. It has been pointed out that the older sessions are possibly more corrupted than the newer ones, yet these earlier sessions are also presented in the wave series with interpretations of the messages by Laura. While Laura's interpretations of the answers the C's give seem sound for the most part, I'm having trouble with some of the literal answers the C's give that seem to be expected to be taken as fact, but which upon further scrutiny I personally don't find factual. So it seems like I'm trying to walk a razor's edge but I keep falling over and over to the point where I get confused.

For example, there are a lot of things in the transcripts which I look at as generally good advice, but then there are things like decoding symbols and myths which I'm unsure about. Are we supposed to just blindly trust the literal explanations? Because I personally have other ideas on some of the answers. I won't bother giving examples, because some of the stuff I'm unsure about would require entire separate threads to fully explain.

The gist is I don't know enough about channeling. I am watching this phenomenon unfold throughout Laura's lifetime as I read her experiences etc., but I don't know the nuts and bolts of the channeling journey, and a lot of things are not verifiable by me. In Laura's mind it might make perfect sense due to the sum of her experiences, but to others, we are observers which puts us in both an advantage as well as a disadvantage. We are able to be more critical, and at the same time unable to experience the inner progression of knowledge that is going on within the mind of the channel.

Anyways, I'm planning to go through the entire wave series. I look through what has been going on with Laura and the group over the past 10 or 15 years along with what was going on with Laura and group in the earlier years, and there seem to be some contradictions. This is understandable, because we're always learning and no case is ever completely closed, but sometimes it gets confusing navigating through all this.

The C's say in the earlier sessions that Jesus did exist, while in the later sessions they imply he didn't. So far that session isn't mentioned in the wave series, but if that session is part of the earlier sessions, then how am I to interpret the literal answers given around the same time in the wave series?

Perhaps I need to develop a more scientific mind. Truly scientific meaning not overly rigidly skeptical but also not overly gullible either.

Studying Laura's journey has been interesting because it's like moving forward and backward through time. Watching where things were in the beginning and where they are now and trying to analyze things myself as an independent intelligence and trying to see where things got screwed up and where things were on point and so on.

Anyways, I'm at a point right now where I'm a materialist skeptic for the most part. Even though I've had many instances of high strangeness in my life, I feel like I have to be overly skeptical of most things considered woo-woo in the scientific and academic community as a control measure to try to reach some level of objectivity. I'm at a point now where I don't even know if the whole STO-STS concept is a real thing anymore.

I've typed enough. Any suggestions, advices or interpretations regarding everything I posted so far would be welcome and greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

hello, thank you for your views. i assume you are still young. with time i believe that it is not possible to know all with certainty and there is always room for doubt. language is also inadequate to expess a true feeling. i am collecting various texts, let them rest jointly in my memory, and from each one my intuition pics out a piece which adds to my understandig and could be a part of my vision of what might be true. and this is then how faith builds up, faith that our existence cannot be a purely random phenomenon. i wish you all the best.


one

 

[heinrich]

Actually I mistyped what I meant to say. I can definitely work with the STS-STO duality as a semi-abstract concept, however as far as believing that there are entire realms of existence or societies that can only be labeled as either one or the other is something I have been a bit skeptical about lately. I look at humanity, I mostly see complex personalities who exhibit both STS as well as STO qualities. From my observations, this group has more or less come up with lists of traits and characteristics that supposedly belong to either side. Wishful thinking, Desires, Wants, Motivation, Taking energy and not giving any back, etc., is called "STS", and to participate in these things is supposedly feeding the STS dynamic and giving more power to the hypothetical STS hierarchy that take these traits to an extreme. And an STO society supposedly (we speculate) thrives on mutual exchange of energy, decentralization, balance, etc. And the idea is that you can't have a society that contains elements of both STS and STO... I have been reading the information provided by this group for awhile now, so don't get me wrong.. it definitely sorta makes sense. I'm just trying to think with a hammer contemplating this whole thing (or like you said... maybe I'm overthinking).

My only issue right now regarding the whole STO-STS thing is wondering where some of the basic elements of humanism come into the picture here. Human nature is the way it is. It is imperfect, but human nature has both good and bad in it and we have a wide spectrum of personalities that range from extremely good to extremely evil with lots of complex shades of gray here. We speculate about how it could be or should be, and have theories about how it was in some distant past, but these are all theories, and we can definitely invoke inspiration from many different areas, but what we see in front of us is what it is, and it is a very complex picture where it's not always so easy to label someone or something a certain way.

I also find it somewhat contradictory that we are using STS traits to be STO... sort of like the old buddhist paradox where you desire to have no desire. I understand that we can only ever be STO candidates as long as we are in third density, but I feel a lot of inner turmoil within myself when I have desires and wants and needs and so on and find myself going after them damn near unconsciously and simultaneously contemplating how I can be more STO, etc. Sometimes when I find myself for a few days completely lacking the desire for something that used to occupy my mind endlessly for years, it feels like a huge time wasting burden has been lifted off my shoulders and I feel relief... but slowly and surely these desires come back and I find myself in inner turmoil and full of contradiction again. Eventually, I rationalize and intellectualize the whole thing.

Well, to be completely blunt with you all, I get mad sometimes that I can't go after what I want and desire because it is considered STS, and I guess this is the root of my skepticism. I think I have a basic inborn sensibility for good and bad.. and if I feel like indulging in something as long as nobody is getting hurt, what's the big deal? I'm not saying I feel like this all the time. The idealist in me won't let me feel like that all the time, but the humanist in me thinks it's okay to indulge, but gradually work towards an ideal and facilitate the life circumstances that will help me move towards that ideal. I am well aware of vampiric feeding of energy and so I try to be mindful of stuff like that. And try not to manipulate or deceive or lie to people.

And to be even more honest with you guys, I guess it boils down to this: I've had a life with many desires and needs that have been unfulfilled (won't give examples.. use your imagination!). I see so many people in the spiritual community living a "spiritual" life but have had the chance to experience and fulfill their desires in the past. I just wonder how much spiritual integrity these same people would have if they never experienced those things. Would they still walk the walk? I am skeptical if they could. It's easy to be spiritual and talk the talk and even walk the walk if you're financially stable or in a more or less fulfilling relationship for example and all your needs are taken care of. How "spiritual" could these same people get when self-preservation is at risk and survival is the name of the game? It just seems sometimes that at our core we are actually animals... carnal beings in our essence.. and all this spiritual, intellectual and mental development that we imagine separates us from our 2nd density friends is all a big lie to hide from ourselves the fact that we would be the same as them if we were presented with circumstances that threaten our sense of self-preservation..

Well, despite my lack of desires unfulfilled, I try to be STO regardless, but I ... just ... can't!... it seems... my wants and desires torment me and I just want to leave all this spiritual stuff behind sometimes and just focus on everything I want and desire and motivate myself to go after those things (and believe me, my wants and desires are very benign.. I don't need much)... but when I do that it just seems off... i usually cringe at myself when I think like that.... but living a life of spiritual integrity is also extremely difficult for me because I feel like I've missed out on what it means to be human and what am I really doing with all this abstract spiritual stuff that goes against the very fabric of existence it seems sometimes (though I totally get that sentiment in the whole gnostic kind of way). So I feel like I'm in some kind of purgatory.

So far all I see possible is being an obyvatel (which I'm not but I'm tryin to be), getting my life organized, and eventually being in a state psychologically where I can be ready for real esoteric development, which I hope to one day be blessed with one day if I play my cards right. I admit I'm kind of selfish in that I care only about my own self development. I understand the whole STO thing and I'm totally into the whole concept, but like gurdjieff said, I think once I get to "self-mastery" level I can't do something worthwhile.

Anyways, just some stream of consciousness typing here.. I don't participate much on this forum because I have ideas like this. And I can't stand hypocrisy and I definitely feel hypocritical a lot of times when I do research on spiritual subjects but simultaneously can't stop thinking about things that are antithetical to these spiritual ideals. I'm always being pulled into a million different directions, all contradicting each other. I've read fourth way works, and I understand what is happening here, but I really don't know where to begin and who to network with (and to be totally frank I don't trust ya'll). I just want to clean my machine, get my diet and health right, do some psychology work, be an obyvatel, and hopefully after many years organizing and mastering mundane life, be in a state where I can do some real esoteric work... but I can't reach that state without also pursuing some basic wants, needs and desires, and motivating myself, and so on (which according to the C's are "STS")... so you can understand my frustration when I read in the transcripts that "want is STS" or "it is STS to desire" or "motivation is STS" and so on... I don't know what to do with that information. Am I supposed to just sit under a tree for the rest of my life and hope my desires and wants fade away?!

I do understand we are what we are (STS beings) and we can't be otherwise, but sometimes it seems we are supposed to deny our nature in favor of something ideal but unreachable, so what do we do? Doesn't it seem contradictory that we're promotng something that is antithetical to what we truly are in our core?

Not to mention it IS kind of suspect that an entire society can only be labeled STS or STO. Sounds like a scam to me at this point. consciousness is too complex to be put into one of these labels. I hear a person pouring their soul out in whichever form they feel comfortable and I don't see "STS" or "STO" at all... I see a complex personality that is trying their best to self-actualize.

With that being said, I adit that "STO-STS" concept is a useful concept to work with and contemplate, as well as all the characteristics associcated with them and so on, but as far as labeling EVERYTHING in "this is too STS" or this is "STO" and so on is off the mark and I hope we can transcend such things. Anyways, I'm done here.

hi. being aware of the concepts of sts and sto is already a sign you are on a right path. there is an infinity of paths leading to more understandig. enjoy

 

[T.C.]

If you were half-way through stripped to the bone, then I'm guessing you already read the "Lucifer" chapter.

When I was talking earlier in the thread about how you seemed to be stuck in a belief-need, whether it be a belief in materialism, or a belief in mysticism or whatever, what I was really getting at, without realising it at the time, is that you were stuck in left-brained mode. And when I said maybe take a break from what you're pursuing at the moment and instead read some other stuff and think about what makes sense to you rather than what someone else tells you, what I was actually doing, again without realising it, was encouraging you to get into right-brained mode.

I think you should read the lucifer chapter again to help you with this.

Also, we really mustn't get hung up on the contradictory "I want to be STO" thing. We're humans. Humans are STS. Attempting to not be STS is no different than attempting to not be human. The lucifer chapter isn't so much about trying to become STO - at least, the chapter isn't about that directly. The chapter all boils down to one thing: if you want to change your reality, don't anticipate. Everything else in the chapter is just about why that is.

Your current personal situation and related frustrations are also a result of this left-brain-centric mode you're in (I speak from experience). Think about the below quote in relation to your last post.

Yet, it was only when Parzifal rejected ALL of... The advice, the exhortations, when he quit seeking to be a great knight on a sacred quest to save the world, only when he rejected God as the pure and good all-father that... It found him!

You should "do you", Andrey. You say you know what you should be doing, but I don't know if that's true. As Joe said, no one here is ever going to say "don't do this or that", and in fact it's the opposite: we encourage everyone to engage in a dance with the universe to find out for themselves what they should be doing. But looking at yourself as 'not right' as you are, or broken, or in need of 'making better' is that left-brain thing: imposing a belief, stuck in the abstract, projected into the future, manifesting as 'wrongness' in the now.

I hate how 'woo woo' this is going to sound, but I'm going to say it anyway: Try to live more in the now and get in touch with the creation through yourself and your own inner connection to it. TRUST YOURSELF, and in your ability to do this. You are not broken or wrong. Stop giving yourself a hard time. Do what you want to do without feeling guilty about it, because it's fine to do so. And don't worry that it's not going to make you STO. You don't have to reject the cassiopaean material just because you're STS/a human being.

 

[Oxajil]

It's because of over two decades of overstimulation with all kinds of entertainment I guess. How do I detox from this mentality?

I think one way to detox from that mentality is to enjoy accomplishments once you start taking more responsibility and become more of a mature person. And sometimes, all that's necessary to detox from that mentality is the realization or shift in perspective that that way of living has been fun but no longer serves you as you seek to have a life that you find to be more meaningful.

It could also help to pick up a hobby for your downtime, such as learning to play the guitar or learning a new language.

Also, when it comes to reading, you can switch things up. Maybe start with a book on health and once you finish that, you could read some esoteric literature, etc. My two small cents!

 

[Joe]

It's because of over two decades of overstimulation with all kinds of entertainment I guess. How do I detox from this mentality? I think I know what I OUGHT to be doing, but like a machine I mechanically am drawn to something stimulating but ultimately unhealthy for my development. Anyways, just sort of rambling at this point. thank you for the replies. I will try my best to put it all together and do better.

Basically, you have to choose. And you'll choose when you've had enough of the negative and unsatisfactory effects of that mentality. If you have a tendency to beat yourself up about indulging in that mentality/activity, I'd suggest you drop the beating yourself up part, and just engage in it *with awareness* of what you are doing rather than dissociating (which I think is likely). That might help to speed up the choice making part.

 

[Andrey]

Have you read any of the recommended psychology books? They’re great in working out why we operate the way we do, why our programs exist related to needing to dissociate. When we learn how our machines work, again awareness of not only ourselves but beyond expands.

I have not read all the psychology books as of yet except for Myth of Sanity. I want to focus on diet and physical health first before I go into the psychology material, as I feel I will be more equipped to apply the psychology material once my body is operating better. Due to my lifestyle, many things are out of whack physically, from brain chemistry to proper functioning of certain organs, etc., so I feel like I need to get these things under control first before getting into the psychological stuff. Or maybe it wouldn't hurt to know some of the psychology material either, even if the processing of the information might be blurry right now.

 

[Andrey]

If you were half-way through stripped to the bone, then I'm guessing you already read the "Lucifer" chapter.

When I was talking earlier in the thread about how you seemed to be stuck in a belief-need, whether it be a belief in materialism, or a belief in mysticism or whatever, what I was really getting at, without realising it at the time, is that you were stuck in left-brained mode. And when I said maybe take a break from what you're pursuing at the moment and instead read some other stuff and think about what makes sense to you rather than what someone else tells you, what I was actually doing, again without realising it, was encouraging you to get into right-brained mode.

I think you should read the lucifer chapter again to help you with this.

Also, we really mustn't get hung up on the contradictory "I want to be STO" thing. We're humans. Humans are STS. Attempting to not be STS is no different than attempting to not be human. The lucifer chapter isn't so much about trying to become STO - at least, the chapter isn't about that directly. The chapter all boils down to one thing: if you want to change your reality, don't anticipate. Everything else in the chapter is just about why that is.

Your current personal situation and related frustrations are also a result of this left-brain-centric mode you're in (I speak from experience). Think about the below quote in relation to your last post.



You should "do you", Andrey. You say you know what you should be doing, but I don't know if that's true. As Joe said, no one here is ever going to say "don't do this or that", and in fact it's the opposite: we encourage everyone to engage in a dance with the universe to find out for themselves what they should be doing. But looking at yourself as 'not right' as you are, or broken, or in need of 'making better' is that left-brain thing: imposing a belief, stuck in the abstract, projected into the future, manifesting as 'wrongness' in the now.

I hate how 'woo woo' this is going to sound, but I'm going to say it anyway: Try to live more in the now and get in touch with the creation through yourself and your own inner connection to it. TRUST YOURSELF, and in your ability to do this. You are not broken or wrong. Stop giving yourself a hard time. Do what you want to do without feeling guilty about it, because it's fine to do so. And don't worry that it's not going to make you STO. You don't have to reject the cassiopaean material just because you're STS/a human being.

Hi, T.C.,

You are spot on regarding the left-brain imbalance. I compare myself as I am now to an idealized version of the self all the time. Or there are certain beautiful or edifying impressions in my memory banks that I constantly try to remember in order to motivate myself to do things that will make those images as close to real as possible. I remember reading about the characteristics of the hemispheres of the brain earlier in the wave series.

I am basically stuck in my head. Without going into too much details, let's just say I have had a LOT of free time on my hands over the past several years, and I can bet you a good 90% of it has been spent in deep contemplation. Rabbit holes on rabbit holes. Heck I wouldn't even really call it contemplation really, because that would imply I'm doing something productive. I'm sure some of it has been productive, but a good portion of it has been quite the opposite. Excessive overthinking would be a better description.

I dream about getting up off my a** and getting things done, but I'm so deep in this mode of existence for so many years, this rabbit hole, that I don't see any way out except through planning a future (which never comes). I've been planning on taking action for awhile now, but in my head I keep thinking that the circumstances have to be right. I've got a whole program planned in my head.

I know all about the whole present moment awareness concept, theoretically, and I've seen many motivational videos in my life of people passionately talking about taking action TODAY, RIGHT NOW, and stuff like that, but this is such an alien concept for me (I think for many people these days). I'm numb to advice like that because I've seen or heard some variation of this concept for so long without lifting a finger that the idea doesn't do much for me when I hear it these days. Not to mention the new agers have totally taxidermized the idea into a rotted carcass.

The reason I made this thread is because I've been searching for some motivating factors, and I seem to have found some, but they involve things probably not recommended by this forum. For example, I find resonance with a particular deity (won't name which one). I read some books about this god, and maybe it was the writing by the authors or maybe it was some connection with the spirit of this deity, I don't know what, but I really resonated with the whole thing, and I finally feel really motivated and driven to start taking action and finally getting things done. I want to put a picture of this deity on my wall and find a way to commune with this spirit and even go as far to construct some kind of ritual to build the connection. I don't believe it 100% and being the way I am (paranoid, always in doubt, etc)., I have been hesitant about building this connection, especially in light of the things I've learned via this medium. But honestly, I don't see any other way to get started on taking action which is something I REALLY want to do. I feel some resonance with this energy and it's characteristics and attributes, and I basically see it as some kind "controlled fantasy" or something.

Well, I'm hesitant to do this, and I've been trying to find some motivating factors that are less subjective, but nothing else seems to motivate me more than building a connection with this energy. I've been trying to "shake it off" but it keeps coming back. Like I said earlier, this isn't some kind of blind devotion, but I'm looking at it from a more practical standpoint. And I've worked it out in a way in my head that it harmonizes with the ideas of this forum (for the most part). So there will be no asking for favors or too much praying to the god or anything like that. Just being near it's presence and meditating on what it's all about would probably do the trick to build that motivation.

Anyways, so this is my dilemma. I feel like its unnecessary and I wish I could find some other avenues, but this is what is calling to me, and I think I'm about ready to take the plunge. I hope it will ultimately be for the best.

 

[T.C.]

Well, let me first say that I can relate so much to the first few paragraphs of your post. I lived on my own in an apartment for three years, and almost the whole of that time was spent in what sounds like an identical state to what you describe.

I dream about getting up off my a** and getting things done, but I'm so deep in this mode of existence for so many years, this rabbit hole, that I don't see any way out except through planning a future (which never comes).

Yep, I get it. Truly, I was there, too. This is what I was talking about when I said, "You say you think you know what you should be doing, but I don't know if that's true." What I mean by that, is that a future, or a path to an aim (same thing), implies a direction, a series of specific choices and actions. What made my life so miserable was my vision of a particular future. I thought I had to be a certain way and do certain things that would lead me to that anticipated future... and I just COULDN'T do ANY of them. I mean, seriously, WHY? WHY couldn't I just do them?

I would do the exact opposite! So, what can we surmise from that? Something was wrong. My very vision of what it means to DO was wrong. Will power is a funny thing. Sometimes, and I'm sure you have had this happen at least a couple of times despite the situation you've been in lasting so long, doing the 'right' thing would be effortless, and it would last for a while. And then, as I always put it, "the wheels would fall off." So I would speculate, and speculate, and speculate. "How do I MAKE myself do what I SHOULD be doing?"

I had to destroy all my ideas of any future and release myself from it, and release myself from the tyrant in my mind. And the only way I could do it was to put my faith in the universe. I had no idea what I should do, but I had a very strong idea that I could do nothing. I had to put myself and my life in the hands of the universe and say, "do with me whatever you wish." I made a deal with the universe: "From now on, I'm going to do whatever I want. And I'm going to assume that whatever the outcomes are for me, that it is what I need." I decided that I was going to 'fast-track' myself through my lesson plan... through the very lesson plan that I had been preventing myself from learning due to the mental barriers I had constructed about what's right, what's wrong, what I should be doing, where I should be heading in the future.

The reason I made this thread is because I've been searching for some motivating factors, and I seem to have found some, but they involve things probably not recommended by this forum.

The only way I was able to do what I did was by 'leaving' the forum. My beliefs about the forum and this group were the very things preventing me from learning my lessons. I had to get rid of the 'external policeman' whose imaginary rules I was trying to live my life by.

I destroyed and burned all my hopes and dreams of being a useful member of this group and 'resigned' myself to the idea that I wasn't supposed to be here, I was not of the same polarity as the other members here, and whatever my future was, it wasn't the same one as the members here would be experiencing. And I learned to be absolutely and completely fine with that.

Anyways, so this is my dilemma. I feel like its unnecessary and I wish I could find some other avenues, but this is what is calling to me, and I think I'm about ready to take the plunge. I hope it will ultimately be for the best.

Why are we alive, Andrey? REALLY? We're here to learn lessons, and that's it. IF you really believe that what you feel drawn to is a serious problem with regard to your membership here, then I would urge you to prioritise your lessons and go your own way. Take time away from the forum and from the Cassiopaean material and just be who you are. Take the brakes off.

 

[Ichbee]

The guidance that I attempt to follow is:
Maya: We live in an imperfect world. Nothing can ever be 100% 'right'.
The main question is: How inaccurate is the information you have now?
CointelPro: Is normal. We live in a STS environment, so expect to be misled /mis-informed /manipulated
Buddha: Take what makes sense to you and leave the rest, but always be open to changing your opinions
Seeing is not believing: Reality is variable, re-writable and not controlled /written by any of 'us'

Be a humble and wide-eyed student. But:
Believe nobody. Accept nothing. Challenge everything.
For your own sanity and growth:
Consciously and deliberately decide what you believe Now and change it based on your personal knowledge /learning /growth.
Know that what you understand /believe is imperfect, but with effort and work, it will improve.

 

[Andrey]

Well, let me first say that I can relate so much to the first few paragraphs of your post. I lived on my own in an apartment for three years, and almost the whole of that time was spent in what sounds like an identical state to what you describe.



Yep, I get it. Truly, I was there, too. This is what I was talking about when I said, "You say you think you know what you should be doing, but I don't know if that's true." What I mean by that, is that a future, or a path to an aim (same thing), implies a direction, a series of specific choices and actions. What made my life so miserable was my vision of a particular future. I thought I had to be a certain way and do certain things that would lead me to that anticipated future... and I just COULDN'T do ANY of them. I mean, seriously, WHY? WHY couldn't I just do them?

I would do the exact opposite! So, what can we surmise from that? Something was wrong. My very vision of what it means to DO was wrong. Will power is a funny thing. Sometimes, and I'm sure you have had this happen at least a couple of times despite the situation you've been in lasting so long, doing the 'right' thing would be effortless, and it would last for a while. And then, as I always put it, "the wheels would fall off." So I would speculate, and speculate, and speculate. "How do I MAKE myself do what I SHOULD be doing?"

I had to destroy all my ideas of any future and release myself from it, and release myself from the tyrant in my mind. And the only way I could do it was to put my faith in the universe. I had no idea what I should do, but I had a very strong idea that I could do nothing. I had to put myself and my life in the hands of the universe and say, "do with me whatever you wish." I made a deal with the universe: "From now on, I'm going to do whatever I want. And I'm going to assume that whatever the outcomes are for me, that it is what I need." I decided that I was going to 'fast-track' myself through my lesson plan... through the very lesson plan that I had been preventing myself from learning due to the mental barriers I had constructed about what's right, what's wrong, what I should be doing, where I should be heading in the future.



The only way I was able to do what I did was by 'leaving' the forum. My beliefs about the forum and this group were the very things preventing me from learning my lessons. I had to get rid of the 'external policeman' whose imaginary rules I was trying to live my life by.

I destroyed and burned all my hopes and dreams of being a useful member of this group and 'resigned' myself to the idea that I wasn't supposed to be here, I was not of the same polarity as the other members here, and whatever my future was, it wasn't the same one as the members here would be experiencing. And I learned to be absolutely and completely fine with that.



Why are we alive, Andrey? REALLY? We're here to learn lessons, and that's it. IF you really believe that what you feel drawn to is a serious problem with regard to your membership here, then I would urge you to prioritise your lessons and go your own way. Take time away from the forum and from the Cassiopaean material and just be who you are. Take the brakes off.

Hello again T.C.,

Thanks for the reply. Putting trust and faith in the universe is also something I have been stubborn about. Not really stubborn, but just maybe always looking at things from another perspective. When I hear "put trust in the universe," my head eventually generates some loosely put together argument of why that might not be in my best interest. This is actually a problem that I have. Generally good advice or decent axioms to live by is always put to the test. Should I really love my neighbor? Here are a bunch of reasons why that might not be true. Putting trust in the universe? Here are some gnostic ideas that may change your mind. It is the overthinking and all the free time. Idle mind, devil's workshop, etc. There are just so many perspectives out there, each fighting for attention, each having it's own merits and it's own flaws. I generally try my best to collect the best ingredients from all these different perspectives in a way that makes sense to me.

As far as leaving the forum or taking a break from the material here, well, I wouldn't really do something so drastic and generally don't feel comfortable doing something like that. If it wasn't for this place, god knows where I would be. Endlessly chasing my own tail pursuing something ridiculous for the rest of my life, most likely. As I mentioned in the earlier post, this "connection" with this specific deity... the way I have put it together in my head, it harmonizes with the ideas of this forum (for the most part). I know all about the traps of ritualism and the unconscious psychological intent behind these kinds of practices, so I've approached this resonance with this energy in an extremely cautious manner. I don't think it's a very serious issue and isn't counter to the philosophies and ideas of this forum. After making this thread and reading the replies, I am coming to realize that pursuing my wants and desires isn't something I have to feel guilty about. And this resonance with this deity is just a little something to spice things up in my subjective universe, but without the trappings associated with this kind of practice. So no elaborate rituals or asking for direct communications or anything that might invite unfriendly presences. But I figure a poster on the wall and a statue or some artwork couldn't hurt, along with just general contemplation on the powerful ideas associated with the energy. I am trying to find a way to just contemplate the powerful ideas without associating it with the deity, but I resonate with the aesthetics of the stories and symbols surrounding the mythos and feel like it complements the powerful ideas. I'm looking at it strictly from an experimental perspective, and I'm not that attached to it. If this resonance disappears (and it may very well can) I will move on without thinking much about it. But the resonance is still there, and I think it may be of practical use, so let's see what happens.

With all that being said, I do plan on taking a break from all the esoteric and spiritual ideas in relation to this place after completing the wave series and coming here to mostly scan and participate in the diet and psychology sections, because I want to focus on that before I get into any esoteric workings. Maybe start the EE program as well. I think I have absorbed enough knowledge regarding esoterica and spirituality from this place (for now) and I need to develop my being before anything else by applying what I have learned so far. Absorbing any more information right now would, as Gurdjieff said, would probably cause more problems for me. Only knowledge I really need to know right now is how to fix my mind and body through diet and psychology, and only on a "need to know" basis, which means only when I am able to apply the principles immediately after learning it.

Anyways, just thinking out loud. Thanks for the reply, T.C. I will try to have more faith in the cosmic mind and the universe and try not to overthink too much.