Negative lyrics

I primarily listened to soul/r&b with some sprinklings of rock and pop while growing up. My musical tastes were highly influenced by MTV. When it first launched, along with VH1, I remember my cousins and I watching, our faces glued to the screen. The rap music I grew up listening to was so tame -- rapping about parties, the rapper's linguistic dexterity, difficult life in the ghetto -- compared to the rap music that came on the scene in the early 90's. I haven't, of my own volition, listened to rap since that time.

When NWA came out rap music took a nose dive straight into the gutter. What could've evolved into a seriously creative art form was ruined. I don't find it a coincidence that one of the members of NWA, Eazy E., actually had dinner at the white house during the Bush Sr. years. What the heck does a ganster rapper have to talk about with members of the government? Unless, of course, he was an paid agent planted or encouraged to get the ponerization rolling in the field of rap music, OSIT.

The persistent use of the n-word, content that is misogynistic, negativistic, violent and sexually perverted presented in a lot of rap music is incredibly disgusting. It's like brain poison. It's really sad to think of all the young minds tainted by listening to this junk.

***As I don't listen to rap music anymore, I don't know if there are many decent groups out there. I can only think of one, Blackalicious, who isn't totally corrupted. But that's only my experience. ***
 
gaman said:
Hey Charliebox, did Al touch a nerve with you that might indicate you are overly identified with metal music and maybe you took that post in a personal way?

I ask this because Al's post seemed to set off a quite lengthy defense of heavy metal music and also the whole industry. After reading the forums for a while (and maybe you have already) you can see that there are many instances where people get triggered by some post and respond strongly defensively, and then some of them find out by working through it that they were locked in to a certain viewpoint or overly identified with something.

So, I point this out as something you might look at. To me, Al's post seemed to be an observation of how some areas of popular music have changed over the years and pointing out a different focus "back then".

Hey gaman.

I'm not sure if my post came across as I had intended. I had already been planning on writing a post about 'negative lyrics' and was actually on my way to this thread to post one, when I came across Al's response. Al didn't touch a nerve at all (I don't think) and instead of making my post out to the group, I identified Al simply because he was the last poster and he referred to the music as 'hate music'. I just wanted to clarify the difference between hate and anger/depression. Al actually helped me figure out what I was trying to point out because I think he was the first to refer to it as 'hateful'.

Maybe I misunderstood his post and he could have been talking about all music - mainstream and non-mainstream. I figured it was about metal simply because all but one of the posts before his were directly discussing heavy music.

I have no problem fully admiting that the majority of metal is not the type of music that is educational or liberating. Most bands are in it for the shock value. But as I had said, those bands tend to fade quickly (like a 'one hit wonder'). Others are all about thier image (being dark and black). Both of the above mentioned basically spew gibberish just like the majority of today's mainstream music. There are those 'gems' though (ie Metallica, before they became mainstream, when they talked about issues with drugs, war, politics, parental relationships, religion etc) who are able to put meaningful lyrics into the heavy style of music.

I was simply talking about my experience with 'negative lyrics' and how, to me, I find them liberating. Living in North America, where apathy seems to be par for the course and growing more by the day, I think it's refreshing to be able to listen to artists who have the guts to say what they think about personal, and more importantly, global issues. While the style of music has the image of being black and agressive, the majority of the time, the lyrics are anything but. It is quite an enigma. One sees these bands with black shirts and long hair singing about injustices in the world or the hypocracy of organized religion. Simply judging by appearances, one would not assume that these topics are part of thier lyrical content. I can definetly understand the assumptions one would have just by looking at them, hearing the music itself and the style of singing.

Also, when one only looks at the surface of song or band names, it easy to assume they are hateful. A perfect example of this is a song by Slayer entitled 'God hates us all'. Just looking at the name, one would think that it's pretty brutal. But if one goes on to read the lyrics and understand the mentality of the authors, one realizes that it's a poke at the belief system of one all-powerful, seperate and most imporantly benevolent entity. They speculate, tounge in cheek, that if there really is an all-powerful, seperate entity in charge of the fate of humankind, he/she must really hate us considering the pain and suffering that has been inflicted upon our planet throughout human history.

As a quick sidenote I find the 'peace and love' lyrics almost akin to the new age motto of, 'love and light, everything will be okay if we sit in a circle holding hands'. After reading the series on Larel Canyon, it really makes me wonder. I'm not sure if I can explain this properly or not, but don't the majority of humankind (outside that 6+/-%) want these things? Aren't we all pretty much striving for that? What in that music is telling us things we don't know? Did we get any smarter or more aware because of it?

More importantly, was the music of that time actually instrumental in the demonstrations and political awareness of the Vietnam era, or did it serve to pacify people? How many 'would be' demonstrators went into the fields, dropped LSD and had sex? How many potentially politically aware individuals went and fried thier brains? Did the music enourage people to get off thier butts and become aware, or did it actually prevent people from doing? I don't know the answers to these questions. It's just something I've been thinking about when it comes to 'rainbow/ lollipop' type lyrics vs 'hard hitting/ slap you in the face with a dose of reality' lyrics.
 
Charliebox said:
Al actually helped me figure out what I was trying to point out because I think he was the first to refer to it as 'hateful'.

Hello Charlibox,
I don't think I said ALL metal is HATE. The point I didn't get across was the aspects of social engineering where the PTB are charging up the people as they plan, for this "time". I've always had a problem getting my full point across :rolleyes:, but I think if you read/search the information on "Laurel Canyon", on this forum and the SotT archives, you may get the drift of where I was leading... And this is not limited to music, it;s the whole zombied national passtimes including television... I guess I was making a social commentary that is larger than just Metal. Heck, I really like Metallica, Korn, and GodSmack. Korn loves the "F" word..
By the way, a sign of getting old is when your favorite rock star is over 50 years old... :D :D :D
 
Al Today said:
Charliebox said:
Al actually helped me figure out what I was trying to point out because I think he was the first to refer to it as 'hateful'.

Hello Charlibox,
I don't think I said ALL metal is HATE. The point I didn't get across was the aspects of social engineering where the PTB are charging up the people as they plan, for this "time". I've always had a problem getting my full point across :rolleyes:, but I think if you read/search the information on "Laurel Canyon", on this forum and the SotT archives, you may get the drift of where I was leading... And this is not limited to music, it;s the whole zombied national passtimes including television... I guess I was making a social commentary that is larger than just Metal. Heck, I really like Metallica, Korn, and GodSmack. Korn loves the "F" word..
By the way, a sign of getting old is when your favorite rock star is over 50 years old... :D :D :D

Hey Al,

You're right. You didn't say that all metal was hateful. Although, I don't think I implied that you did either. Only the very beginning of my inital post in this thread was directed at you. I was wondering if you considered music that has an element of anger in it as hateful. Basically, my question was whether it was the content or the context of the music.

As for your social commentary and your discussion of Laurel Canyon, I totally agree with where you are going. I'd like to think that some of my favourite bands wouldn't be caught up in such things (knowingly or unknowingly) but one can never be sure.

Personally, when I think of 'hate rock' I think of a band like a Limp Bizkit who were big in the late 90's and early 2000's with thier fantastic and well-thought-out hits like 'Break Stuff' (obvious sarcasm). I'll never forget how they were able to get the crowd going at Woodstock 1999. It was actually quite eerie. People were ready to destroy the place simply because the lead singer told them to.
 
Charliebox said:
People were ready to destroy the place simply because the lead singer told them to.

Yep, the PTB have many genre at their disposal to gather potential "zombies". They've been working on control for years, and somewhere in a recent session, the C's said something to the effect that they've succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. And now here we are, are few. The butterfly has been flapping it's wings and the wind is a changing...
 
Charliebox said:
Hey gaman.

I'm not sure if my post came across as I had intended. I had already been planning on writing a post about 'negative lyrics' and was actually on my way to this thread to post one, when I came across Al's response. Al didn't touch a nerve at all (I don't think) and instead of making my post out to the group, I identified Al simply because he was the last poster and he referred to the music as 'hate music'. I just wanted to clarify the difference between hate and anger/depression. Al actually helped me figure out what I was trying to point out because I think he was the first to refer to it as 'hateful'.
It didn't come across to me as ranting from emotionally triggered blindness :) It just seemed like it could be triggered defensiveness, depending on the context of what was going on in your head :)

You make some valid points about it being easy to assume hatefulness depending on their names. I have certainly been guilty of that in the past, especially during my more religion indoctrinated times.

I have wondered what (if any) the negative effects of the music/rhythms/beat of certain kinds of music would be on a person given some of the things I've read about how different kinds of music affect the growth of plants. Probably part of this is because I can't make out the words most of the time anyway.

I've still got old albums from Van Halen, etc. and then a lot of people called that heavy metal, but it seems on the lighter side compared to some of the dark stuff I've heard in the last 10 years.
 
It didn't come across to me as ranting from emotionally triggered blindness :) It just seemed like it could be triggered defensiveness, depending on the context of what was going on in your head :)

You make some valid points about it being easy to assume hatefulness depending on their names. I have certainly been guilty of that in the past, especially during my more religion indoctrinated times.

I have wondered what (if any) the negative effects of the music/rhythms/beat of certain kinds of music would be on a person given some of the things I've read about how different kinds of music affect the growth of plants. Probably part of this is because I can't make out the words most of the time anyway.

I actually remember watching an episode of Myth Busters where they tried this exact experiment. Their 'test' was to see if talking to plants actually had an effect on thier growth. They set up a bunch of plants with different test conditions. They had some that had total silence, others that were 'talked to' by a human being and yet others that were set up with different types of music.

Funnily enough, it was the metal that made them grow the fastest, while complete silence was the slowest. Talking to plants DID seem to increase the rate of growth.

This is not a plug for metal, but just a fun fact I figured may interest you :)
 
Diplodocus said:
a prime example would be 'Rage Against the Machine' though they did support communism

This statement strikes me as awfully dismissive. Perhaps it could use some supporting evidence? I also think there might be a logical fallacy lurking here, as rock musicians, by their very nature, tend to lean heavily towards capitalism. Rage Against the Machine, though somewhat "in your face" about things, helped me to realize at a very early age that my country and culture were oppressing REAL PEOPLE in far away places that I had never even heard of. When you're preaching to a largely adolescent-white-suburban and brain-washed population, that certainly is an amazing feat. I do question some of their views on activism and what that should entail, but I've never heard a RATM song advocating the use of guns or force to take back the government either. Just my 2 cents...

Al Today said:
Seems nowadays there are more and more music that I call HATE ROCK. Strange I like some, but nevertheless much rock nowadays is full of HATE.

I feel exactly the same way. I haven't bought a new CD since 2005 or something, for crying out loud! :P Now I just sit around and listen to old soul music. It's the only thing that seems to warm my heart up.

chachachick said:
***As I don't listen to rap music anymore, I don't know if there are many decent groups out there.***

And to chacha, yes...there certainly are some decent ones. I thoroughly enjoy the Roots. Especially Phrenology. Mos Def is good ("Beef is Iraq, the West Bank and Gaza Strip"). And if you like old school, Erik B and Rakim are the cream of the crop. I'm hearing good things about Saul Williams also. Definitely gonna check him out.
 
Charliebox said:
It didn't come across to me as ranting from emotionally triggered blindness :) It just seemed like it could be triggered defensiveness, depending on the context of what was going on in your head :)

You make some valid points about it being easy to assume hatefulness depending on their names. I have certainly been guilty of that in the past, especially during my more religion indoctrinated times.

I have wondered what (if any) the negative effects of the music/rhythms/beat of certain kinds of music would be on a person given some of the things I've read about how different kinds of music affect the growth of plants. Probably part of this is because I can't make out the words most of the time anyway.

I actually remember watching an episode of Myth Busters where they tried this exact experiment. Their 'test' was to see if talking to plants actually had an effect on thier growth. They set up a bunch of plants with different test conditions. They had some that had total silence, others that were 'talked to' by a human being and yet others that were set up with different types of music.

Funnily enough, it was the metal that made them grow the fastest, while complete silence was the slowest. Talking to plants DID seem to increase the rate of growth.

This is not a plug for metal, but just a fun fact I figured may interest you :)

An internet search reveals how the Mythbusters experiment was flawed, which I must say doesn't surprise me in the slightest (Mythbusters is not really that scientific, even though the show likes to make out otherwise) (_http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/plant-ed/2004-December/007770.html)

Some experiments have shown that classical music is more conducive to growth than heavy metal; while other experiments have shown that plants exposed to any time of music at all will have more growth. However none of these experiments seem to take into account whether such an increase in growth is really a positive thing. What happens if those plants which grow fastest end up becoming diseased more often than the control specimens?
 
i've been a metalhead since i was 16 (listening to meshuggah right now). now i feel that, when i listen to music that talks about negative subjects, such as war, murder, disease, etc. that is REFLECTION OF OUR WORLD. in order for slayer to have written "angel of death" (which is about nazi experiments) there first had to be the occurence of those events in history for someone to look at it and say "let's write about this". when you really start to explore metal in general, it's like anything else. there is junk that means nothing and there are things that are very insightful. i particularly like this meshuggah lyric "no more ifs/ no bias/ no ambiguity/ no wondering whether this is it" i feel this is a very strong statement about the concept of faith. on the other side of the coin it's about honesty and sincerity. it's about those moments of extreme clarity we experience when we have found something truly empowering.
 
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/194333-Horrorcore-singer-suspected-in-Virginia-killings

Interesting article today on SoTT about 'negative lyrics' ...
 
anart, i didn't read that article yet but i must point out, WHY do we have to make an enemy out of heavy metal or rock n roll every single time we run out of other stuff to blame? like the judas priest trial in the early 90's (maybe late 80's)
im so sick of metal/rock being cited as a bad influence or sending subliminal messages. i mean, shoot, i believe it was gurdjieff (maybe don juan, like many of you i constantly have different sets of info spinning around in my head) who said "are you not ultimately influenced, ALWAYS????" but of course, these situations, like many other ridiculous things, are the result of ignorance.
 
abstract said:
anart, i didn't read that article yet but i must point out, WHY do we have to make an enemy out of heavy metal or rock n roll every single time we run out of other stuff to blame? like the judas priest trial in the early 90's (maybe late 80's)
im so sick of metal/rock being cited as a bad influence or sending subliminal messages. i mean, shoot, i believe it was gurdjieff (maybe don juan, like many of you i constantly have different sets of info spinning around in my head) who said "are you not ultimately influenced, ALWAYS????" but of course, these situations, like many other ridiculous things, are the result of ignorance.

I'm not making an enemy of anything - just pointing out an article. And, you're right - we are influenced always - however, it is up to us to choose which influences whenever possible.

The C's also said this on 9/13/09

91309 said:
Q: (Joe) True. (Scott) I wonder if that's why there are certain bands where the people totally can't sing, but everyone thinks they're great - I mean, above and beyond marketing and all that kind of stuff?

A: Yes! And some of them activate "interesting" frequencies!

Q: (L) When you say "interesting", what does that mean?

A: Shall we say that it is planned and deliberate for nefarious purposes.

Q: (Joe) What music were you thinking about, Scottie? (Scottie) I was just thinking after our talk the other day about objectively and subjectively good music and everything. I was thinking about some of the popular music, like pretty much everything... Like my workout music, grunge music, electric guitar music, rap music - all these different types of popular music. And some of it is actually done by somebody who can't even sing at all and people just absolutely love it. So there are all these different genres where some bands become popular, whereas you can go to a bar and here's somebody singing a song and they're ten times better, but... (L) But they're not famous. (Scottie) So why do these people who have absolutely no talent become famous, beyond the fact that they were "discovered", or advertising, etc...

A: Laurel Canyon anyone?

Q: (laughter) (Keit) We were just talking about it today! (Joe) Yeah, they were all picked. (C**) So would Laura's voice be kind of what Gurdjieff called "objective music"?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) I've got a great name for your album: Laura Canyon! (laughter) (L) I think I'll pass on that one. Unless you want to put an echo in so it sounds like I'm singing across the canyon. (PL) So, those bands in Laurel Canyon, those singers like the Mamas and the Papas, those bands that were obviously sponsored, because, through their music, they could put a kind of spell on some listeners, manipulate them, generate some negative emotions...?

A: "Spellbinders."

Q: (Keit) Maybe you can ask about movies? (L) What about movies? (Keit) We were talking about Laurel Canyon in relation to movies, and we see this same effect. (L) Did Laurel Canyon do movies? (Keit) Because it has that lab. (Allen) Oh, it has that CIA lab at the top of Laurel Canyon. (DD) Which is the spook lab. The spook's cinema lab. (Allen) It's all part of that same thing. (PL) They did some horror movies.

A: Yes. All part of the same programs.

Q: (PL) Does it generate just general negative emotions in listeners, or is it more specific nefarious purposes?

A: More specific...

Q: (Joe) Dissociation. (PL) To trigger some kind of programmed murderers or stuff like that?

A: In some cases. Like an audible "Catcher in the Rye."

Q: (C**) What's Catcher in the Rye? (Allen) Catcher in the Rye was the book that the guy who shot John Lennon had in his hands when he shot him. (L) Yeah? (Joe) Sirhan Sirhan. (L) And also the guy that shot John Lennon. (DD) It's supposedly a kind of MKULTRA trigger thing.
 
wasn't pointing the finger at you anart, i just meant that as a general statement. maybe my writing style is too agressive...very interesting what the c's said about music in the quote, but i just don't think it makes any sense that you can hear subliminal messages just because you play a record backwards, i mean, i'm a musician and i just don't see how the average musician would be able to set up an entire song just so it would create a backwards subliminal message. i just think it's too subjective what people will consider a "subliminal message", and any old person can say their kid killed themself because of a rock and roll record because they are so materialistic they blame it on someone else to make some money or if they really do believe it without trying to figure out other possibilities then they just aren't using their brain. i'm not attacking anyone or anything, i never used to put my brain to good use til i woke up, but anyway, you know, i wouldn't rule out the possibility of a real subliminal message being put into anything because it is totally possible, it just seems like in the judas priest trial, everybody just leapt to conclusions without thinking about circumstances at all.
 
abstract said:
... WHY do we have to make an enemy out of heavy metal or rock n roll every single time we run out of other stuff to blame? like the judas priest trial in the early 90's (maybe late 80's) ...

Hello abstract. I was wondering if you've read the articles on Laurel Canyon. I don't have the link handy, but search the forum and you'll find the discussion. I absolutely love music, but it can be used in a negative fashion...
:cool2: :cool2: :cool2:
 
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