Negative lyrics

Al Today said:
abstract said:
... WHY do we have to make an enemy out of heavy metal or rock n roll every single time we run out of other stuff to blame? like the judas priest trial in the early 90's (maybe late 80's) ...

Hello abstract. I was wondering if you've read the articles on Laurel Canyon. I don't have the link handy, but search the forum and you'll find the discussion. I absolutely love music, but it can be used in a negative fashion...
:cool2: :cool2: :cool2:

It is on SOTT.

Here's the first part:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/155794-Inside-The-LC-The-Strange-but-Mostly-True-Story-of-Laurel-Canyon-and-the-Birth-of-the-Hippie-Generation-Part-1

And you can do a search on SOTT with "Laurel canyon" and you will have all the links for the 16 parts.
 
Al Today said:
abstract said:
... WHY do we have to make an enemy out of heavy metal or rock n roll every single time we run out of other stuff to blame? like the judas priest trial in the early 90's (maybe late 80's) ...

Hello abstract. I was wondering if you've read the articles on Laurel Canyon. I don't have the link handy, but search the forum and you'll find the discussion. I absolutely love music, but it can be used in a negative fashion...
:cool2: :cool2: :cool2:

I'm really not convinced by anything Dave McGowan says anymore - Programmed to Kill was alright, but shows early hints of his hodge-podge accumulation of random facts/coincidences into questionable conclusions ... the Laurel Canyon articles provide no evidence at all that the popular music of the 60's was some kind of psy-ops. He bases all of his unstated allegations on the fact that a lot of these pop artists had family in the military. If you take a minute to realise that most of these 20-30 year old stars were born during/just after WWII, then it is a lot less surprising that almost everyone that age had a family member who'd been in the military.

Sorry, I just don't think it's credible to cite the Laurel Canyon articles as evidence that music is used in a negative fashion to condition groups of people.
 
Valis said:
I'm really not convinced by anything Dave McGowan says anymore - Programmed to Kill was alright, but shows early hints of his hodge-podge accumulation of random facts/coincidences into questionable conclusions ... the Laurel Canyon articles provide no evidence at all that the popular music of the 60's was some kind of psy-ops. He bases all of his unstated allegations on the fact that a lot of these pop artists had family in the military. If you take a minute to realise that most of these 20-30 year old stars were born during/just after WWII, then it is a lot less surprising that almost everyone that age had a family member who'd been in the military.

Sorry, I just don't think it's credible to cite the Laurel Canyon articles as evidence that music is used in a negative fashion to condition groups of people.

I agree that Dave wanders out into a lot of fields and is lacking on the footnotes - however - that many 'coincidences' point to something significant going on and if he's even in the general ball park - no, if he's even in the outer parking lot of the general ball park - then it's all planned manipulation of the masses. Knowing how this world works, and that it is all planned manipulation of the masses, nothing would surprise me and Dave is probably quite close to the mark with what he's written.

Again, even if he can only see the mark from where he stands and he's not quite close to it - that is more than enough to re-evaluate that time period and all the music/entertainment that came out of it. osit.
 
anart said:
I agree that Dave wanders out into a lot of fields and is lacking on the footnotes - however - that many 'coincidences' point to something significant going on and if he's even in the general ball park - no, if he's even in the outer parking lot of the general ball park - then it's all planned manipulation of the masses. Knowing how this world works, and that it is all planned manipulation of the masses, nothing would surprise me and Dave is probably quite close to the mark with what he's written.

I don't quite agree that he only needs to be in the general vicinity of a town with a ballpark in it for his "revelations" to confirm that it's all planned manipulation. We're talking about a whole decade of music rising out of a cultural explosion - sure, I agree that a lot of it would have been manufactured ... but not necessarily by the military or intelligence agencies. More like greedy record company execs.

The way McGowan works is a lot like those who subscribe to the Law of Fives:

All things happen in fives, or are divisible by or are multiples of five, or are somehow directly or indirectly appropriate to 5. The Law of Fives is never wrong.

As Lord Omar said: "I find the Law of Fives to be more and more manifest the harder I look."

No, I think if you're going to suggest that a decade of music is manufactured then you need to provide some solid evidence. Just *one* bit of evidence that isn't entirely circumstantial. To see how these coincidences can be taken out of context and used in a manipulative manner, let's take one of David's
key findings - that Jim Morrisons father was commander of the naval fleet involved in the Gulf of Tonkin incident. He uses this fact to suggest that Jim's dad is in all likelihood some sort of evil military asset used for psy-ops. He neglects to reveal, though, that George Morrison's naval career was undermined by his vocal outrage over the attack on the USS Liberty, which he believed (correctly) to be an attack by Israel designed to look like an attack from Syria. He recommended economic and military actions against Israel. Doesn't really sound like the type of guy who is into deceiving people for political/social gains ... sounds like someone who does his job and does it with integrity.

I'm sure every coincidence/fact that Dave rattle off in this series can be seen in a different light than the one he pushes on us - only problem is, there is no way to check his sources.

I'm not denying that Tavistock-like synthesis for social control was a possible contribution to some of the music of the 60's, I just don't think that the Laurel Canyon articles are in any way a good investigation into this.
 
Valis said:
I don't quite agree that he only needs to be in the general vicinity of a town with a ballpark in it for his "revelations" to confirm that it's all planned manipulation. We're talking about a whole decade of music rising out of a cultural explosion - sure, I agree that a lot of it would have been manufactured ... but not necessarily by the military or intelligence agencies. More like greedy record company execs.

No, I strongly disagree with you. You seem to be missing the larger picture and straining at details. If one knows anything about the nature of this reality, mind control and the United States, then it is quite simple to put two and two together.

Nothing is not controlled, Valis - 'whole decade' or not. Not wanting to see that does not mean it is not the truth.

As I stated earlier, I agree that McGowan flies fast and easy with facts and documentation - but the crux of the matter is true and that is that all of American (and global) society is an experiment and if you think for one minute that any aspect of it is not intricately manipulated then you've missed the boat. Dave puts together clues that shine a diffuse light on that and it's valuable, despite the occasional flaws in his method.

The subject is also discussed in this thread - http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8778.msg62936#msg62936
 
anart said:
Nothing is not controlled, Valis - 'whole decade' or not. Not wanting to see that does not mean it is not the truth.

It's not that I don't want to see something - as I said, I'm not denying that there was/is likely some sort of social manipulation behind pop music, but to say all of it is controlled (if that is what you and Dave are saying) is going a bit far. If you like, I can write a piece on this to show you why ... it's something I've been planning since reading these articles. Wanting to see that a whole decade of music is manufactured does not mean it is truth, either, if you'll excuse my reverse paraphrase.

Anyway, we all agree that society is a controlled experiment run by psychopaths ... i think i'll agree to disagree about the merits of Laurel Canyon. Sorry Anart :/
 
Valis said:
I'm not denying that there was/is likely some sort of social manipulation behind pop music, but to say all of it is controlled (if that is what you and Dave are saying) is going a bit far.

Well look at movies and TV. The Cs said they inspired the "Wizard of OZ" and that both sides are involved in these hyperdimensional effects on movies and TV. I believe the Cs also said that some negative content was something people needed to know, thus something not pleasant to see or hear could be from the STO side. In movies and TV it is rather impossible not to notice all the dark mysterious imagery and there are plenty of aliens even for kids. Not every movie/show is going to be hyperdimensionally effected of course but the effect is so pervasive, it's as if every movie/show is effected.

It's less hard to see the effect with music but I'd be shocked if music was spared more than movies/TV. Music was the prime problem for the powers that be in the 60s. The Joan Baezish singers/protesters being the problem. I think McGowan made a great observation in his latest article that it wasn't just what was in the Laurel Canyon music, it's what wasn't in them, the protesting. Lots of songwriters like Dylan aren't really natural protesters, they are just very good at reading the pulse of what is going on around them. You put Dylan in Laurel Canyon and he doesn't write protest songs. Baez was quite puzzled that Dylan could write such good protest songs but not personally have much passion for the movement itself.

It really would not be that hard for the powers that be to vector folk music off into self centered or nationalistic directions. You really don't see any rallying around music to protest your own country any more. In fact they got a bunch of musicians including Dylan to play to generate passion against the ficticious 9-11 invaders. Country music and all its misguided patriotism went from its niche area to a major player all over the country. Metal and Rap created something people can argue about without ever worrying the real powers that be.

Pittsburgh should have had famous musicians singing in protest, where were they. Too bad Cindi Sheehan can't sing. I think Obama himself was a way for the powers that be to mute protests, including musical ones; hard to protest against the guy you thought was the remedy for the previous disaster in chief. Some mind control vectoring doesn't need any hyperdimensional technology.
 
It's not that I don't want to see something - as I said, I'm not denying that there was/is likely some sort of social manipulation behind pop music, but to say all of it is controlled (if that is what you and Dave are saying) is going a bit far.

After being a close observer of how the music industry works , including how artists get play time on the air I would have to say what people get to hear through the mainstream is very controlled. DJs at many radio stations these days get a play list that tells them which artists they have to play , at what time and before or after commercial breaks.

Let us not forget the letter which is said to have gone around radio stations ordering not to play any John Lennon peace stuff during the beginnings of Iraq Afghanistan invasions.

I would like to write more but have to get off right now.

Bands who dont really have anything to give text /reflection wise , usually becase they are usually young and can not see the dots and how they connect have to be seen as useful idiots ..surely?

Safe for the industries to use.

Just a few quick thoughts.
 
as a musician myself, i can confidently say that the music industry is totally backwards. there are people/bands who suck harder than a giant vacuum cleaner, have no skill, know no theory, and put no real work/soul into what they do, and get loads of attention because they're pretty and they wrote a stupid song with no other reason besides "we might get paid for this, omg we are getting paid for this!" i especially dislike rap music because quite frankly, a child can beat out a rythm with a drum machine, press a few synth keys, and throw some rhymes on top. it's totally infantile and i've never met an intelligent person who likes rap music. it's possible i'm being too hard on it but that's my subjective view. but i guess when you know about music it takes all the mystery out of it.
 
Valis said:
Anyway, we all agree that society is a controlled experiment run by psychopaths ...

Exactly. They control society through politics, economy, religion, education. Why do you think it would be different with culture -- a major means to shape people's thinking?
 
Hi Abstract,

This should give you second thoughts about rap :

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBA-xi8WuCU&feature=fvw

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfFD709OtFM&feature=related

;D
 
i like anthrax,but that song w/ public enemy i must still subjectively categorize as child's play. it's really kinda boring for me to listen to, i play guitar, bass, sing and scream, and sometimes dabble in drums if there's a kit laying around, there's not much you can show me that's gonna make me go "ooooh that's sooooo cool!" because i've been there, done that. it's great if other people like it and wanna listen to it, no problem with that. but that just ain't my ballgame. i listen to stuff like meshuggah, lamb of god, slayer, machine head, belthegor, behemoth, and meshuggah is a definite favorite since they play in the wackiest time signatures and they know how to keep a good flow from riff to riff. mainly i was talking about the garbage in the mainstream, the stuff that's all about bling bling and doing drugs and drive by shootings. i don't find any substance there.
 
abstract said:
i listen to stuff like meshuggah, lamb of god, slayer, machine head, belthegor, behemoth, and meshuggah is a definite favorite since they play in the wackiest time signatures and they know how to keep a good flow from riff to riff. mainly i was talking about the garbage in the mainstream, the stuff that's all about bling bling and doing drugs and drive by shootings. i don't find any substance there.

Hey I was just teasing you a bit ;)
I still listen to some "metal" bands (From Mastodon to Dillinger escape plan and Converge so...) as well so I can understand what you mean but in the end it does not matter because we are all part of the STS world trying to find meaning and sense in this life.
Most people into rap music would not find your tastes to be relevant either.

Maybe an interesting question for you to explore would be to find why exactly you don't like this or this music, why does it make you feel this or that way, just observe yourself as much as you can, write it down, sing about it I don't know ;)
 
okay tigersoap, since you asked...

it is not always the simplicity of rap i don't like, there's plenty of good simple music i like to listen to (rob zombie for instance) it is more the infantile reaction people have to something that is so basic (boom boom chick boom boom boom chick clap) although rythm is a musical principle that needs to be explored, people listen to something like two kicks and a snare hit and go "ooooooh i wish i could do that" when they CAN do that but have no idea due to lack of understanding, which i have learned to accept. (and yes it is true we are all STS here but we are also in the process of changing this fact though knowledge gathering and other activities) anyway, i feel like there's a lot of rap music that sends bad messages, and i might even go so far to say that some of it (because of the message) may be contributing to the dumbing down of society. that being said, there is some rap that i have heard that i feel is awesome and totally genuine, musically and lyrically. many people misunderstand heavy metal, i believe. they only scratch the surface, they won't look any deeper than that. they listen to it, and the agressiveness doesn't make sense to them, at first they percieve it as random noise. it's not pretty sounding and they can't dance to it, so they say what am i supposed to even do with this? they can't dig under the topsoil and see the true genius of the style (yes i have heard rap that is genius as well) they don't like the fact that it takes effort to figure out "the point." most people get turned off right away by the screaming because according to them anyone can scream...NOT TRUE...you can REALLY hurt yourself if you don't scream with the proper technique, which can lead either to vocal chord damage and sometimes a big headache. (i get so sick of seeing people suck up a big gulp of air in the chest, and then blow it all out, lose their voice and accomplish nothing.) and then they might say it's so fast why does it have to be so fast?...it's fast because i want my adrenaline rush and i want it NOW! then there's the complaint of "i can't understand the words", you can just read the lyrics, can't you? and then there is "why don't they ever sing about anything nice?" it's because life is not 100% rainbows and sunshine and therefore, anything relating to rainbows and sunshine WILL NOT be the lyrical subjects. and then there is my favorite: why is this song so long? it's because the band was creative enough to use more than 3 chords. so that's my opinion on the points above, i hope i don't appear cynical or anything
 
Hi abstract,

I have noticed that you rarely put paragraphs or spaces in your posts.

So, in doing so, your post are more difficult to read.

Would it be possible to help the members of this forum to read your posts in adding paragraphs or spaces.

Thanks
 
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