No Cancer Link For Pot Smokers
- Thread starter Ruth
- Start date
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
I am very very sceptical about the "psychosis" link. What the mainstream media is trying to do is establish a causal link, when what is probably there is an association (if that, even). In other words, those people who are already prone to psychosis are more likely to self-medicate with things that affect the brain. But that doesn't mean that if people who have healthy brains self medicate with the same substance will become psychotic. It would be like doing a survey about depression and asking everyone what medication they took, then concluding that Prozac causes depression!
To bring this down to earth, I grew up in the 1970s and nearly everyone consumed a whole lot of that thing and I don't remember it causing psychosis. Now, there were a lot of other substances, often supplied by the friendly folks at the CIA, that DID cause psychosis.
To bring this down to earth, I grew up in the 1970s and nearly everyone consumed a whole lot of that thing and I don't remember it causing psychosis. Now, there were a lot of other substances, often supplied by the friendly folks at the CIA, that DID cause psychosis.
Ruth said:
Ruth
The Living Force
Actually, I believe that it is more likely a bunch of researchers (from the mental health field) trying to establish a causual link between marijuana and psychosis. This is probably because they have observed that sometimes heavy users end up as acute mental hospital admissions. They have been unable to discover a direct causal link because there are other factors to consider, like genetics and social environment. Genetics may play quite an important part in our psychic/soul/physical abilities.DonaldJHunt said:
You are right about the mainstream media, they do tend to jump on the most bizare bandwagons which can sometimes (I think) be meant to tell us to do something that may not be good for us. Or scare us into doing something without thinking of the positives and negative side effects. And effects can be different for each individual, they would have us believe that we are all the same.
The latest one in Australia is that we all need more sun (as if we don't get enough of it and the skin cancers to go along with it). This has to do with vitamin D.... which they think may relate to preventing Alzheimers. Vitamin D acts like a hormone needed for absorbtion of calcium. According to a researcher at my uni, its neccessary for strong bones, but we only need about 15 minutes sunlight for that to be sufficient.
I'm not saying that the research is wrong, just that the MSM tends to 'promote' new research that points in the reverse direction to where everything else is pointed sometimes. I digress..
I do believe that the amount of active ingredient contained in a certan plant (or perhaps a certain part of that plant) has increased I'm not sure how much, but significantly. How would you like it if your heart medicine was ten times as strong as it used to be? It might have an effect, perhaps not good for everyone.DonaldJHunt said:
Selective breeding of plant material will do that. This has caused some people to question whether this plant is still the 'soft drug' of the 60s and 70s, or if it now might be more dangerous to people who have increased risk of schizophrenia and other mental health problems.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/991201ap/2583.html
I have a herb growing in my garden called nepeta recemosa which was known in the 60s and 70s for its mild hallucinogenic qualities when smoked. I can always tell when my two cats have been eating it... they stare at the ceiling (must be all the pink spiders up there), one chases his tail and the other pretends to be a kitten again. I'm glad they don't eat it that often because it tends to produce some 'bug eyed' bizare behaviour from them when they come in the house. It is kind of funny though. Apparently my cats do drugs.
They must have moved on from that type of 'research'. I wonder why?DonaldJHunt said:
M
Marie
Guest
A theory en vogue that I read here and there is that the PTB wants to scare people away from pot because it apparently is a "consciousness-expanding drug". I'm not really sure wether it does expand consciousness (my bet would be that it works differently on different people), but from my observations potsmokers are usually a bit more open to the weird and subversive.
On the other hand, it's equally possible that the PTB wants us to smoke it, so as to lose our time and energy on it....
What I personally wonder about that study is: what do they call "psychosis" or "psychosis-prone"? Because seriously, I've read of some people (with the appropriate diplomas) who consider that anyone who is involved in "conspiracy theories" has a mental illness just for that, and the standards for what "psychosis" is can vary widely... Apparently if one follows the guidelines of psychiatry, there isn't one single person who cannot be diagnosed with something.
What this looks like to me is an attempt to scare people away from pot. Maybe because it expands consciousness, maybe because of the loss of money and taxes in alcohol sales...
On the other hand, it's equally possible that the PTB wants us to smoke it, so as to lose our time and energy on it....
What I personally wonder about that study is: what do they call "psychosis" or "psychosis-prone"? Because seriously, I've read of some people (with the appropriate diplomas) who consider that anyone who is involved in "conspiracy theories" has a mental illness just for that, and the standards for what "psychosis" is can vary widely... Apparently if one follows the guidelines of psychiatry, there isn't one single person who cannot be diagnosed with something.
What this looks like to me is an attempt to scare people away from pot. Maybe because it expands consciousness, maybe because of the loss of money and taxes in alcohol sales...
G
Guest
Guest
Regarding this particular substance, the negative reactions I observed mainly involved fears regarding what the users heard about the chemical. Basically, they were stressing because they were told that any altering of percepetion leads to psychosis. And these were usually people who are used to suppressing perception with alchohol, and not used to modifying it in any other way. They were also people who felt they were in the presence of a lunatic if that other person started talking about conspiracy theories,
I observed another stress reaction, connected to the fear of being arrested. Getting inebriated this fashion and pondering on the illegality of the act at the same time makes for a nasty state of mind.
A third negative reaction was from people who were depressed already with their lives, and ended up using the stuff to drop out, channeling the altered perception into an already existent but not obvious morbidity. They basically relaxed and admitted they did not like their lives and found it hard to pick up where they left off.
I think if the stuff was socially acceptable, there would be a lot less talk of "psychosis". I do not consider drunks pounding each other's faces in or crashing into people, other cars, and trees normal behaviour myself, but since THAT drug is acceptable, the insane behaviour alcohol causes in a lot of people is considered par for the course, I guess.
I observed another stress reaction, connected to the fear of being arrested. Getting inebriated this fashion and pondering on the illegality of the act at the same time makes for a nasty state of mind.
A third negative reaction was from people who were depressed already with their lives, and ended up using the stuff to drop out, channeling the altered perception into an already existent but not obvious morbidity. They basically relaxed and admitted they did not like their lives and found it hard to pick up where they left off.
I think if the stuff was socially acceptable, there would be a lot less talk of "psychosis". I do not consider drunks pounding each other's faces in or crashing into people, other cars, and trees normal behaviour myself, but since THAT drug is acceptable, the insane behaviour alcohol causes in a lot of people is considered par for the course, I guess.
Ruth
The Living Force
There is a link between illicit drugs and psychiatric illnesses. It has not been established to be causal though because there can be other factors which could exclude it from being the cause of mental illness.
There is a high collelation between mental illness and high risk behaviours and self harm (including suicide).
Some people have a lot of difficulty dealing effectively with this state of 'altered' conciousness - not to mention the stigma associated with it. Vincent VanGough may be one good historic example. He may have been bipolar (manic-depressive, as they used to call it). Some say that his mental health have been caused by an ingredient in the drink Absinthe. The psychoactive active ingredient in Absinthe was thujone (from wormwood), which apparently is remarkably similar in structure to tetrahydrocannabinol.
It is possible that some pychoative drugs can have detrimental effects on some people.
http://ca.askmen.com/toys/special_feature_60/90b_special_feature.html
There is a high collelation between mental illness and high risk behaviours and self harm (including suicide).
Some people have a lot of difficulty dealing effectively with this state of 'altered' conciousness - not to mention the stigma associated with it. Vincent VanGough may be one good historic example. He may have been bipolar (manic-depressive, as they used to call it). Some say that his mental health have been caused by an ingredient in the drink Absinthe. The psychoactive active ingredient in Absinthe was thujone (from wormwood), which apparently is remarkably similar in structure to tetrahydrocannabinol.
It is possible that some pychoative drugs can have detrimental effects on some people.
http://ca.askmen.com/toys/special_feature_60/90b_special_feature.html
This is simply not true Ruth. Where did you get the info from ? DEA ? Just an educated guess.Ruth said:
It could be said though, that there is a certain overlap in their psycho active effects, although thujone also has a narcotic component (e.g. http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~godhead/absinthe).
Thujone
Tetra hydro Cannabinol
More on http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=2936
While thujone can be said to be a modified terpene, I would never classify THC as a terpene.
Cyre2067
The Living Force
Charles is correct, the action of the drugs is completely different as they are in different families.
Two drugs that would be similiar would be methanphetamine and Adderall, the latter having a methyl group (CH3) added hanging off the chain... wonder if i can find the image...
Found One! This shows meth along with some basic neurotransmitters. I believe Adderall is different from meth by having a CH3 on the left side of the benzene ring, @ about 10 o'clock.
It always bothered me that they were basically giving 12 year olds meth. My mother wouldn't let me drink coffee until i was a teenager b/c of the caffiene... yeesh...
Two drugs that would be similiar would be methanphetamine and Adderall, the latter having a methyl group (CH3) added hanging off the chain... wonder if i can find the image...
Found One! This shows meth along with some basic neurotransmitters. I believe Adderall is different from meth by having a CH3 on the left side of the benzene ring, @ about 10 o'clock.
It always bothered me that they were basically giving 12 year olds meth. My mother wouldn't let me drink coffee until i was a teenager b/c of the caffiene... yeesh...
Symptoms of schizotypy precede cannabis use.
http://socialsciences.people.hawaii.edu/publications_lib/Cannabis%20and%20SPD.pdf
Schiffman J, Nakamura B, Earleywine M, LaBrie J.
Department of Psychology, University of Hawaii at Manoa, 2430 Campus Road, 110 Gartley Hall, Honolulu, HI 96822, USA. schiffma@hawaii.edu
The current investigation uses a large non-clinical sample of undergraduate college students (N=189) to investigate schizotypal traits among cannabis and non-cannabis users, as well as the temporal order of the onset of these traits and cannabis use. Findings suggest that regular cannabis users are significantly more prone to cognitive and perceptual distortions as well as disorganization, but not interpersonal deficits, than non-regular users and those who have never used. Additionally, the onset of schizotypal symptoms generally precedes the onset of cannabis use. The findings do not support a causal link between cannabis use and schizotypal traits.
http://socialsciences.people.hawaii.edu/publications_lib/Cannabis%20and%20SPD.pdf
Schiffman J, Nakamura B, Earleywine M, LaBrie J.
Department of Psychology, University of Hawaii at Manoa, 2430 Campus Road, 110 Gartley Hall, Honolulu, HI 96822, USA. schiffma@hawaii.edu
The current investigation uses a large non-clinical sample of undergraduate college students (N=189) to investigate schizotypal traits among cannabis and non-cannabis users, as well as the temporal order of the onset of these traits and cannabis use. Findings suggest that regular cannabis users are significantly more prone to cognitive and perceptual distortions as well as disorganization, but not interpersonal deficits, than non-regular users and those who have never used. Additionally, the onset of schizotypal symptoms generally precedes the onset of cannabis use. The findings do not support a causal link between cannabis use and schizotypal traits.
G
Guest
Guest
I'll tell you what: All I got was positive benefits from the stuff. I noticed psychotic behaviour in others in the USA, and some other European countries, and presented my opinion on that in my post above.
What was interesting was that living in Spain for 2.5 years, I never once saw any kind of psychotic or paranoid or negative behaviour from smokers of this substance. I attribute this to the fact that the laws (at least until recently) are quite lax there. I think an interesting study would be the effect of arbitrary laws on people prone to psychosis. Laws that involve doing something that does not harm others, and harms oneself less than other legal actions, such as drinking exessive amounts of alcohol.
In fact, there was a parallel law for alcohol called Prohibition, and that led to high crime including extesive murder. Too bad nobody did a study correlating alcohol and deviant behaviour. Personally, I have to say that it is stupid laws that drive me crazy, not recreational substances where every study has failed to establish a causal link between the substance and the story they were trying to sell.
What was interesting was that living in Spain for 2.5 years, I never once saw any kind of psychotic or paranoid or negative behaviour from smokers of this substance. I attribute this to the fact that the laws (at least until recently) are quite lax there. I think an interesting study would be the effect of arbitrary laws on people prone to psychosis. Laws that involve doing something that does not harm others, and harms oneself less than other legal actions, such as drinking exessive amounts of alcohol.
In fact, there was a parallel law for alcohol called Prohibition, and that led to high crime including extesive murder. Too bad nobody did a study correlating alcohol and deviant behaviour. Personally, I have to say that it is stupid laws that drive me crazy, not recreational substances where every study has failed to establish a causal link between the substance and the story they were trying to sell.
Justin
Jedi Master
I have witnessed some negative reactions to THC. This was manifest as paranoia in certain people who would otherwise not be paranoid.
As with many substances, individuals seem to have positive/negative/neutral experiences based on their individual biochemistry and "state of mind" so to speak. Additionally, the dosage and combinations with other chemicals can certainly change the overall effects a person experiences.
Based on what I have witnessed, there is far more psychosis (although short-term) and psychological deviance as the result of alcohol use than from use of THC.
As with many substances, individuals seem to have positive/negative/neutral experiences based on their individual biochemistry and "state of mind" so to speak. Additionally, the dosage and combinations with other chemicals can certainly change the overall effects a person experiences.
Based on what I have witnessed, there is far more psychosis (although short-term) and psychological deviance as the result of alcohol use than from use of THC.
Tigersoap
The Living Force
I wonder what is the % of mental disorders resulting of THC use in the Netherlands.
I found this link for a pdf called
THE MENTAL HEALTH STATUS OF
THE EUROPEAN POPULATION
http://www.eu.int/comm/health/ph_determinants/life_style/mental_eurobaro.pdf
This paper does not seem to look at drug usage per se but it might be an indicator I think.
It does not seem that the Netherlands have the most mental diseases of Europe, they are quite average (if I understands the paper correctly.).
I found this link for a pdf called
THE MENTAL HEALTH STATUS OF
THE EUROPEAN POPULATION
http://www.eu.int/comm/health/ph_determinants/life_style/mental_eurobaro.pdf
This paper does not seem to look at drug usage per se but it might be an indicator I think.
It does not seem that the Netherlands have the most mental diseases of Europe, they are quite average (if I understands the paper correctly.).
Bholanath
Jedi
The problem with this subject is that those with any extensive first-hand knowledge aren't free to participate openly in the discussion. Many Americans have 40+ years knowledge of physical and psychological effects of various levels of usage, but now with NSA geeks (hi-FU) checkin up on everyone, silence of the truly informed is assured, or if it is discussed it is in abstract scientific or legal-advocacy contexts. Since the 60's two subsequent generations of Americans have remained ignorant and purposefully ill-informed, (can you say COINTELPRO?) while millions inhale anyway. Most of the 60's icons (PTB-tools), those not suicided, who celebrated usage had zero first-hand knowledge of the context of 1000s of years of responsible, respectful, entheogenic use in spiritual traditions of Asia, Africa and elsewhere. Of course there was no cancer, and with proper initiation and sacred protocol, rarely psychosis.
I think the "consciousness-expansion" confusion is a result of the disinfo program (the Gr.Dead/Leary-RamDass/Cheech-Chong "stoner"-cartoon images burned into kids' brains). Generally in the Asian traditions you weren't permitted (by guru/teacher) to use in your practice without the discipline and maturity to overcome the fear or potential-loss-of-focus of an altered state. It definitely never was traditionally used for the purpose of getting f---ed-up and stupid (but there's always abuse). The unitiated, undisciplined Western young folks in the 60s were immediately subjected to big-time psy-ops which effectively set users on the path of ignoring, or not investigating, the crucial political/social/spiritual veiled realities to just go to work, breed, get the goodies, and zone out in front of the box. So, maybe the PTBs DO want us to smoke it, because certainly many will merely "lose [their] time and energy" and be more compliant and receptive to friendly fascism. Not something to trifle with or take lightly.
I think the "consciousness-expansion" confusion is a result of the disinfo program (the Gr.Dead/Leary-RamDass/Cheech-Chong "stoner"-cartoon images burned into kids' brains). Generally in the Asian traditions you weren't permitted (by guru/teacher) to use in your practice without the discipline and maturity to overcome the fear or potential-loss-of-focus of an altered state. It definitely never was traditionally used for the purpose of getting f---ed-up and stupid (but there's always abuse). The unitiated, undisciplined Western young folks in the 60s were immediately subjected to big-time psy-ops which effectively set users on the path of ignoring, or not investigating, the crucial political/social/spiritual veiled realities to just go to work, breed, get the goodies, and zone out in front of the box. So, maybe the PTBs DO want us to smoke it, because certainly many will merely "lose [their] time and energy" and be more compliant and receptive to friendly fascism. Not something to trifle with or take lightly.
C
censoredbysott
Guest
Paranoia is not a effect of marijuana rather a effect of breaking the law.
Someone that robs a bank would be paranoid about getting caught, just as a marijuana smoker would be paranoid of getting caught, it has nothing to do with the effects of the substance but rather to do with the action which could result in incarceration.
Someone that robs a bank would be paranoid about getting caught, just as a marijuana smoker would be paranoid of getting caught, it has nothing to do with the effects of the substance but rather to do with the action which could result in incarceration.
I'm pretty sure, from past experiences, that the weed amplifies paranoia. It is my guess that a bank robber would be even more paranoid while stoned.censoredbysott said:
