Non duality

[Menna]

Practically, we are not in the stage of the game where non-duality is functionally sustainable. Consciousness wants this drama and interaction we are witnessing, because we are it, and things need to stay in motion.

We aren’t in a reality where non duality is possible/allowed for any length of 3D measured Earth time. Thus not only does consciousness want the drama it facilitates it through encapsulation in the human body and this human body living in this physical matter reality.

I deduce that consciousness learns from our individual units of consciousness within our human body our decision making/intellect/logic thus this learning is more efficient with duality - duality is welcomed and part of this realm we are in

 

[truepositive]

Thanks for the Wave reference, @Wandering Star. Given that quote from the C's about Gravity, I guess I could imagine gravity being the "primal material" of existence since it is seemingly all-pervasive, and affects all things (from what I know as a definite layman). But I wonder where Consciousness comes into the picture? Is gravity itself conscious, and so gravity as the basic "stuff" of existence gifts that consciousness to all things? Or does Consciousness somehow precede it, and so gravity like everything else is imbued with it? What do you think?

This feels like a categorization question; gravity could be a fundamental property of physical existence but rather then being an active part of consciousness it could be a 'framework feature' of things instead, at least on current conceivable levels. With that in mind, i also think we can formulate frameworks for reality at large, but no theories of everything because change is permanent. For theories of everything the buck stops at 'this universe' - perhaps much closer even.

 

[Menna]

This also means that the better our self-awareness functions, the better Life/God/Universe functions, for us.

i.e., "He who knows himself, knows God"

Yes, that is a large part of “it” it is importantly to know the “rule set” of this physical matter reality so that the well known self has an operations manual so to speak knowing yourself and the rules of the reality you are in is a great combinations and for optimal being it is a combination

 

[Menna]

There’s a book about 5-6 things tuned perfectly for this reality to manifest operate and give rise to intelligent life thus there are things that can’t be disrupted changed (in any dramatic way) and are correlated to each other gravity would be such

 

[Menna]

Yeah, I would agree with your statement about meditative 'self-checking'. Non-duality teachings all have a self-inquiry component as far as I can tell, although not all of them offer self-inquiry as a way to do work upon our individual selves. In those cases it seems much more like a practice of ignoring ourselves for the sake of having a spiritual experience. The personal self is made to seem like a nuisance that isn't that important, that it should just be ignored and "gotten beyond". But I think we agree that taking that road will only lead to increased self-harm.



Yeah, the rebounding negativity has puzzled me for a time (and was very uncomfortable). It didn't discourage me from further attempts of increasing positivity altogether, but it has found me asking new questions (like in this thread) before moving forward in the practice of 'self-checking' further, since I have been kind of caught-up in a cycle of familiar, repeating negative thoughts or feelings despite consistent work towards the positive. Swimming in circles...

I found myself in the habit of thinking (wrongly it seems) that just relaxing into my positivity, basking in it for a time via inquiry so to speak, would slowly do some kind of dissolving of the negative side on its own (my own misunderstanding and 'wishful thinking'...) I think the 'basking' has helped loosen things up or dissolve them to some extent, but given my "swimming in circles" experience I knew I was missing something. So to your question "what do you believe you should do?", I believe I should continue work towards the positive, but now with more focus on doing work with the negative things that pop up, instead expecting them to disappear eventually on their own through just repeated relaxing-into my more essential, positive self.



If I'm understanding your question, my strongest motivation is to continue to do less and less harm to myself and others, and to come to better understanding of "god" and "the way god made things". Learning about life, reality, creation and its makeup is fun and has something that feels like deeply-meaningful adventure to me (at least when I'm not suffering from my own wishful-thinking lol)

Instead of thinking/feeling to increase your positivity use your physical center your actions to increase positivity. Volunteer, charity, helping doing good deeds more next month than the previous and more next year than the last. This physical act of positive will bring the thought of positive and emotion of positive instead of starting in the fleeting emotion/thought vibrations anchor the positives in actions in reality in the here and now

 

[Menna]

This feels like a categorization question; gravity could be a fundamental property of physical existence but rather then being an active part of consciousness it could be a 'framework feature' of things instead, at least on current conceivable levels. With that in mind, i also think we can formulate frameworks for reality at large, but no theories of everything because change is permanent. For theories of everything the buck stops at 'this universe' - perhaps much closer even.

Conciousness exists inside and outside of different realities physical and non physical gravity and non gravity there are also different physical realities with different “human” avitars that contain consciousness. One can’t assume Gravity is the same across the board in all physical realities however if there is life there is conciousness but if there is consciousness there isn’t necessarily gravity. Conciousness is fundamental gravity is not in all realms

 

[bozadi]

The personal self is made to seem like a nuisance that isn't that important, that it should just be ignored and "gotten beyond". But I think we agree that taking that road will only lead to increased self-harm.

Maharaj suggests a kind of "automation" for the personal self.

Q: Sorry. But I just do not understand. You say you are bodyless and mindless, while I see you very much alive and articulate.

M: A tremendously complex work is going on all the time in your brain and body, are you conscious of it? Not at all. Yet for an outsider all seems to be going on intelligently and purposefully. Why not admit that one’s entire personal life may sink largely below the threshold of consciousness and yet proceed sanely and smoothly?

Q: Is it normal?

M: What is normal? Is your life — obsessed by desires and fears, full of strife and struggle, meaningless and joyless — normal? To be acutely conscious of your body is it normal? To be torn by feelings, tortured by thoughts: is it normal? A healthy body, a healthy mind live largely unperceived by their owner; only occasionally, through pain or suffering they call for attention and insight. Why not extend the same to the entire personal life? One can function rightly, responding well and fully to whatever happens, without having to bring it into the focus of awareness. When self-control becomes second nature, awareness shifts its focus to deeper levels of existence and action.

Q: Don’t you become a robot?

M: What harm is there in making automatic, what is habitual and repetitive? It is automatic anyhow. But when it is also chaotic, it causes pain and suffering and calls for attention. The entire purpose of a clean and well-ordered life is to liberate man from the thraldom of chaos and the burden of sorrow.

Q: You seem to be in favour of a computerized life.

M: What is wrong with a life which is free from problems? Personality is merely a reflection of the real. Why should not the reflection be true to the original as a matter of course, automatically? Need the person have any designs of its own? The life of which it is an expression will guide it. Once you realize that the person is merely a shadow of the reality, but not reality itself, you cease to fret and worry. You agree to be guided from within and life becomes a journey into the unknown.

------------

Yeah, the rebounding negativity has puzzled me for a time (and was very uncomfortable). It didn't discourage me from further attempts of increasing positivity altogether, but it has found me asking new questions (like in this thread) before moving forward in the practice of 'self-checking' further, since I have been kind of caught-up in a cycle of familiar, repeating negative thoughts or feelings despite consistent work towards the positive. Swimming in circles...

OK, that can be a very interesting phase. Do you think it's possible to hold negativity in one hand, positivity in the other, and "choose posivitity"? I don't claim that this is such an easy task or that I can always manage to do it but I think our discussion of this query can potentially be very beneficial. The earthly life, specifically "the Matrix", imposes so much direct and indirect negativity. It's almost impossible to consistently avoid being fed and then feed negativity in a vicious cycle. But we also know that deep and persistent negative thoughts and emotions are often very destructive, degenerative for us. As I previously mentioned, I take this as a big and fair challenge / confrontation. The "opponent" says "I will make you negative and feed on you", and you say, "No, I will be positive" (it's present tense rather than future; i.e. "at the moment"). This is how I've recently begun to look at it because this seems to be the "simple, naked truth".

As a note which I deem to be critical, I don't consider positivity as a beneficial "value" or "attribute", but as "me", "my real self". So, this helps me to contest more wholeheartedly. Thus, there's something much beyond the sense of being in a contest. It's not just a competition. It's about whether I really want to "be". What brought me to the same swamp (STS realm) as the "exploiter" in the first place was a corruption on my part, which meant that it was not clear whether I want to "be" or "not be". So, now, this is an opportunity to assert my will to be. This perspective or "scenario" tends to help me to consciously "say 'no' to negativity" and/or "say 'yes' to positivity". Again, I don't claim that my above description is the most ideal or objective way of putting it, and also don't claim that I've become proficient at it. But I'm having some positive results, which make me feel that I'll gradually be more proficient.

my strongest motivation is to continue to do less and less harm to myself and others

The same here, although I'm not consistent enough, yet. By the way, I think our "harm to others" is primarily caused by our "harm to ourselves".

 

[bozadi]

But I wonder where Consciousness comes into the picture? Is gravity itself conscious, and so gravity as the basic "stuff" of existence gifts that consciousness to all things? Or does Consciousness somehow precede it, and so gravity like everything else is imbued with it? What do you think?

Very good questions... I don't know but I like speculating on it, which, thanks to the input from others, sometimes helps to get me closer to knowing, I think.

I wonder where Consciousness comes into the picture?

This is a question I've been deeply wondering about. "What is the relation between being and knowing/awareness???"

Of course, it attracted my attention that consciousness (or awareness, in Maharaj terms) is the highest/absolute reality according to advaita.

Then the C's statement "Soul is consciousness" was striking to me. And this:

Q: (L) If everything is an illusion, from what does this illusion spring, and into what space does it spring?

A: Your consciousness.

Q: (L) Where did this consciousness originate?

A: Consciousness is the absolute, the center point.

So, I think nothing precedes consciousness/awareness. These statements by the C's sound very critically compatible with advaita. And I currently conclude based on these that being and knowing are the same in the highest/deepest/purest level (7D).

 

[bozadi]

And let's remember this:

A: Gravity is "God."

Gravity seems to be "all that there is". Not just matter or something. It's us and all. So, I think we can also say it's the same "thing" as knowing and being. I wish I could say "this explains all for me", though :) I'm still confused a lot.

 

[bozadi]

Instead of thinking/feeling to increase your positivity use your physical center your actions to increase positivity. Volunteer, charity, helping doing good deeds more next month than the previous and more next year than the last. This physical act of positive will bring the thought of positive and emotion of positive instead of starting in the fleeting emotion/thought vibrations anchor the positives in actions in reality in the here and now

This idea might work sometimes for some under some conditions but I think it also involves certain potential problems. I agree that any physical "action" (for trial and error, etc.) is preferable over "rumination" in certain situations. But "sowing" positive acts with the expectation of "reaping" positive thoughts and emotions can also mean putting an essentially unneeded separation between us and positivity; a "delay" (the illusion of time), if you will, resulting in egoic anticipation. I think our experience of positivity shouldn't depend on "things" or "conditions". It's essentially a matter of "awareness". Yes, undoubtedly, our interaction with other people and, eventually, with life in its entirety is a vital and indispensable part of our journey into more positivity/being/awareness but we ourselves, here and now, independently of anything, should be the starter of the "fire of life/being". Our very being is positivity itself. Therefore, a "fundamental" externalization of "positivity" would be an externalization of "being", and I think this is the essence of the "False Self" problem, which is closely related to 3D thinking, body-centricity, latent materialism, etc.

 

[Menna]

This idea might work sometimes for some under some conditions but I think it also involves certain potential problems. I agree that any physical "action" (for trial and error, etc.) is preferable over "rumination" in certain situations. But "sowing" positive acts with the expectation of "reaping" positive thoughts and emotions can also mean putting an essentially unneeded separation between us and positivity; a "delay" (the illusion of time), if you will, resulting in egoic anticipation. I think our experience of positivity shouldn't depend on "things" or "conditions". It's essentially a matter of "awareness". Yes, undoubtedly, our interaction with other people and, eventually, with life in its entirety is a vital and indispensable part of our journey into more positivity/being/awareness but we ourselves, here and now, independently of anything, should be the starter of the "fire of life/being". Our very being is positivity itself. Therefore, a "fundamental" externalization of "positivity" would be an externalization of "being", and I think this is the essence of the "False Self" problem, which is closely related to 3D thinking, body-centricity, latent materialism, etc.

What you agree with is exactly why I wrote what I wrote when rumination becomes prevalent get out and physical do - one does not always have to physically do all the time but to bring balance and reduce rumination

 

[axj]

Do you think it's possible to hold negativity in one hand, positivity in the other, and "choose posivitity"?

It is not only possible but in my experience (and that of others) the fastest way to dissolve negativity - whether emotional, mental, energetic blocks, etc. Once you bring the two together and let them "mix", it always dissolves the negative naturally on its own.

It is easier to first go deeply or at least to some degree into 'positivity' (true self, love, compassion, etc.) and then allow the 'negativity' to come up as well (eg. difficult emotions). It can feel somewhat intense to do this, though it is also soothing and healing to bring feelings of love, acceptance and approval to a hurting emotional wound.

And sometimes bringing love to a very hurting emotional place may not even feel like love at first. That is the case when you start with focusing on 'negativity' that is up and then bring in 'positivity' to it. It is sort of like going deeper than the layer of negativity and connecting to the positivity that is at our core.

 

[Haldeman]

This feels like a categorization question; gravity could be a fundamental property of physical existence but rather then being an active part of consciousness it could be a 'framework feature' of things instead, at least on current conceivable levels. With that in mind, i also think we can formulate frameworks for reality at large, but no theories of everything because change is permanent. For theories of everything the buck stops at 'this universe' - perhaps much closer even.

Gravity being a 'framework feature' of consciousness is interesting. By this do you mean something structural like a matrix, or a "fabric" weaving through an underlying matrix?

 

[Haldeman]

As a note which I deem to be critical, I don't consider positivity as a beneficial "value" or "attribute", but as "me", "my real self". So, this helps me to contest more wholeheartedly. Thus, there's something much beyond the sense of being in a contest. It's not just a competition. It's about whether I really want to "be".

Yeah, I think it's critical as well...reminds of Hamlet's wondering to himself, "To be, or not to be? That is the question."

Part of the work for me is getting in the habit of seeing it as "my real self" as you say. It can feel like a slippery fish sometimes, remembering this. I think it ties in to some of my early explorations in non-duality, where I heard the message that I am essentially "naked awareness". But somewhere along the line, or for some reason, I was treating this "naked awareness" as if it were "neutral awareness", which is a view I don't now think to be the case, but I can fall back into the habit of it, so to speak.

 

[bozadi]

What you agree with is exactly why I wrote what I wrote when rumination becomes prevalent get out and physical do - one does not always have to physically do all the time but to bring balance and reduce rumination

Yes, and there's also what the C's called a "reversal of therapy":

Q: (S) I have been having some serious problems with joint pain in my fingers and I would like to know what to do to make this better because I think that taking pain pills is something that hides the symptoms and does nothing for the cause.

A: Not true, S, sometimes pain killers cure cause as well as symptom. This is simply reversal of therapy. The symptom dies, thus cutting off the energy flow of the causative problem. Then the root cause dies if its "fuel supply" is interrupted for an adequate duration.

I'm not sure but one of its interpretations might be this: Spiritual or mental healing will probably make healing effects on our physicality as well, and I think the vice versa is also possible; i.e. physical healing can contribute to the healing of the mental or spiritual root cause, at least in some situations.

In my efforts for consciously increasing my positivity, I observe the mutual positive interaction between physical and spiritual wellness.