Not being able to create another human being/soul?

[nwigal]

Well, first of all, I don't think a woman has to be raped to raise a child without feeling guilty to be STS...So how could it be STO...Humm This I'm not sure, my guess is "hey I'm happy to be alive", maybe my parents "wanted" to "have" me and by doing so they would be STS, but now that I'm growing adult I begin to understand little by little what Work life's left for me. SO I was raised from a STS wishfull thinking, probably, but the opportunity to be here gives me the chance to try to help people the better I can. I guess this is why we are all here in this forum, helping each other. So you see, by serving themselves, my parents could be serving others, even if it was not the initial intent. Kind of a STS's STO side effect. So to make myself clear, having a child could be for the same reason we are all here, that is making an opportunity to help the world that can be used or not by the child, because it is his choice.

If you were a child of rape, you might have a different perspective on the dynamics you are speaking of.

I'm glad Laura was born you know. Is her birth not a STO direction ?

Birth is just a start, the rest of the direction is up to the person and their choices, OSIT.

 

[Aidylsun B.]

Like the C's say everyone is important so that one child could have a positive impact on this earth and enlighten others especially someone with the guidance of a mother or father who has worked on themselves.

And so can their mother/father. Anticipating what your child will become or will do also seems narcissistic to me, and not respecting the child's free will. And sure the child "could" have a positive impact, but that's just one possibility. I think a much better bet to have a positive impact on the world is if someone chooses to do so themselves, and there is a much higher chance of success than betting that your child will do it. What you do is under your control - what your child will do, is not.

I don't know how much time we have but I don't recommend making decisions by saying "Im not going to do this because the world might end soon" Still going to remember the past, live in the now and plan for the future.

If you remember the past and live in the now - do you not see the world heading for disaster? You must not have a very good memory, or awareness of the now. What would you recommend as useful factors in the decision? If the state of the world and where it is heading is not important in terms of choosing to have a child - why not, and what is?

As for those who are unable to have children, I'd say that this is only as "bad" as they perceive it to be. If they have been conditioned to think that children is what brings meaning to their own existence, then they might feel upset by this. If they haven't, they will be fine. Some people never wanted children despite having the capability to have them, and wouldn't be upset by the news that they can't have them, so it really depends on the person. The short answer I'd give in any case is "make the best of it". Everyone is important - and no one is, since the universe is infinitely capable of taking care of itself. As Atreides says, everybody is not a beautiful and unique snowflake. Don't live through your children, don't assume things about how they will turn out or what they will choose to do with their lives - they are a separate being with their own plans, lessons, goals, desires, and ideas. You are just a vessel through which they enter this world, and who helps them stand on their own feet - they are not an extension of you. So give to the world what you yourself have to give, and let others do what they will. Children have nothing to do with what you learn and what you have to give to this world - that's entirely up to you. If anyone thinks that their child is their own "gift" to the world, they are fooling themselves, they are not "contributing" to the world by having children. It's just a way to rationalize laziness and lack of Doing anything yourself.

I really appreciate what you said here, SAO. It's a great reply!

 

[Peam]

Like the C's say everyone is important....

I can't find where the C's say that. But they did say nobody is a nobody.

Session: 941119

Q: (T) But I'm just a nobody. Why would they go to all trouble to send somebody in a Camaro to drive up on my lawn...
A: Several answers follow: Number One, Nobody is a "nobody." Number two, it is no trouble at all for aforementioned forces to give seemingly individualized attention to anybody.

So is there a difference between “everyone is important” and “nobody is a nobody”?

I think there is. Consider a field of sheep all busy munching grass. The farmer takes care of them all until it's time for the chop. None of them is a nobody because if one goes wondering off he'll bring it back. But if one or two starts to look up from the grass, look around and start to smell something fishy about the situation and start to work out what's going on and share their stuff, then they might become important ie more useful to the universe.

 

[Menna]

If nobody is a nobody then everyone is important - but there are different degrees of importance. I believe Dr. Martin Luthar King Jr was a very important man and Howard Thurman someone who influence Dr. King was also important but maybe imortaint to a lesser degree. Meaning didn't impact as many people but did impact the person who had an impact on many people so maybe he is as important as Dr. King. There are many other examples like this. So I do believe everyone has their degrees of importance some more then others but still important. Thanks for correcting the C's quote don't want to miss quote them need to work on that.

In your example you talk about one sheep who tried to get free but got caught and then two other sheep who communicated and shaired their belief about whats going on. The first sheep is still important he tried to become free break free from the norm and his actions could have influenced the other sheep to approach the getting free situation differently. Now the other two sheep know that they cant just break free on their own they have to network with eachother. The two sheep who communicated may be viewed as more important because they had a bigger influence on their heard by networking but by failing to break free the first sheep is still important because it showed the other two sheep what they need to do. (I know I kind of twisted your example to prove a point - just wanted to point out that someone who fails is as important as someone who succeeds because they showed the person who succeeded that they need to take a different approach)

 

[Peam]

Hi Acaja, Could you explain your reasoning as to how wanting and having a child might not be STS. I can see how having a child from the result of a rape could be seen as not being STS, but then that doesn't seem to have the wanting aspect to it.

Yeah okay, well let's say that one day you may feel deeply inside you like having a child, not that you really want it, not that you can explain it , but that you just know it because maybe for some people it makes sense,

Sort of the feminine urge to procreate. Where would we all be without it?

as well as for some others praticing the Work probably makes sense too. But I agree with the idea that anticipating to raise a child and teach him sounds STS.

Coming to the work seems different to that feeling you describe, a passion to have children. Passion could be described as any powerful or compelling emotion or feeling. But according to the C's the work isn't passion.

#960714

A: "Passion" does not set one "free," quite the opposite!
Q: (L) But what if your passion is for knowledge?
A: That is not passion, it is soul questing.
Q: (L) What is it that gives some people this drive, this steamroller effect that they are determined to get to the absolute bottom of everything and strip away every lie until there is nothing left but the naked truth? What is the source of this desire?
A: Wrong concept. It is simply that one is at that point on the learning cycle. At that point, no drive is needed.

If nobody is a nobody then everyone is important -

Hmm, That doesn't sound right but I can't put my finger on it. Isn't it like saying if nobody is not an 'A' then they all must be a 'B' as well?

but there are different degrees of importance. I believe Dr. Martin Luthar King Jr was a very important man and Howard Thurman someone who influence Dr. King was also important but maybe imortaint to a lesser degree. Meaning didn't impact as many people but did impact the person who had an impact on many people so maybe he is as important as Dr. King. There are many other examples like this. So I do believe everyone has their degrees of importance some more then others but still important.

Yeah, everyone is impacting with each other to varying degrees, and your examples were important. What about lets say paedophile's, how important are they? Could we live without them so to speak?

(I know I kind of twisted your example to prove a point - just wanted to point out that someone who fails is as important as someone who succeeds because they showed the person who succeeded that they need to take a different approach)

I see your reasoning Menna. Though how important are the rest of the sheep who just mechanically munch grass all day? :/

 

[truth seeker]

If nobody is a nobody then everyone is important...

I'm not sure I agree with that. Perhaps we should put the phrase into context:

Q: (T) But I'm just a nobody. Why would they go to all troouble to send somebody in a Camaro to drive up on my lawn...

A: Several answers follow: Number One, Nobody is a "nobody." Number two, it is no trouble at all for aforementioned forces to give seemingly individualized attention to anybody. Number three, Terry has been targeted and so has Jan and others because you are on the right track. Number four, This area is currently a "hot bed" of activity and extremely rapidly expanding awareness. Disinformation comes from seemingly reliable sources. It is extremely important for you to not gather false knowledge as it is more damaging than no knowledge at all. Remember knowledge protects, ignorance endangers. The information you speak of, Terry, was given to you deliberately because you and Jan and others have been targeted due to your intense interest in level of density 4 through 7 subject matter. You have already been documented as a "threat." Remember, disinformation is very effective when delivered by highly trained sources because hypnotic and transdimensional techniques are used thereby causing electronic anomalies to follow suggestion causing perceived confirmation to occur.

My current understanding of the part in bold was said to emphasize how STS forces can present itself in a person's life in ways that we can't even imagine. What seems to be a lot of trouble for us really takes no effort on their part.

The phrase "nobody is a nobody" means to me that anyone can be targeted by STS. Essentially don't think you're not worth the effort. If you're deemed a threat, measures will be taken to throw you off track.

The phrase "everybody is important" seems to suggest that everyone is equal in their abilities. One could also go in the opposite direction with this and say that nobody is important. This is 3D thinking in my opinion. It's an oversimplification of an idea which we in 3D get easily caught up in - the idea of being special. The fact is that everyone is not capable (whether because of will or ability) of doing the same thing. This does not mean they are not relevant. It just means they have different abilities. Hope that makes some sense.

 

[Keit]

My current understanding of the part in bold was said to emphasize how STS forces can present itself in a person's life in ways that we can't even imagine. What seems to be a lot of trouble for us really takes no effort on their part.

The phrase "nobody is a nobody" means to me that anyone can be targeted by STS. Essentially don't think you're not worth the effort. If you're deemed a threat, measures will be taken to throw you off track.

The phrase "everybody is important" seems to suggest that everyone is equal in their abilities. One could also go in the opposite direction with this and say that nobody is important. This is 3D thinking in my opinion. It's an oversimplification of an idea which we in 3D get easily caught up in - the idea of being special. The fact is that everyone is not capable (whether because of will or ability) of doing the same thing. This does not mean they are not relevant. It just means they have different abilities. Hope that makes some sense.

Yeah, this is similar to my understanding too. Making greater or lesser impact depends on person's choice, abilities and the point they find themselves on their learning cycle. But it doesn't mean they are "nobody" and can't be given "special attention" due to their potential or their impact on those who are already capable of making a bigger difference.

Since we are all interconnected, especially in our closest circle of relationships (either in real life or online), and what we choose to do may have an impact not only on ourselves but also on other people, this kind of connection can be either utilized for the mutual benefit or can be used to interfere. See the example of parents, spouses or friends who can either assist and support their child, partner or a friend to progress on their learning cycle and be able to be of bigger influence, or they can hinder due to their emotional programs. In a similar way, since big steps constitute a series of small steps, one's personal progression or choice can be influenced to prevent one from utilizing their potential by "tweaking" step or two, leading to a different direction.

As for the "everyone is important", Sheldon Kopp has a book called "All God's children are lost, but only few can play the piano." And it's about finding a life that is truly your own. And in my opinion, this title relates to the concept Ark expressed in the following quote:

"If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it. First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself. This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think."

In this sense, and if our progression is "outside of linear time" so to say, the concept of being more or less important, talented or able is not appropriate, imo, and can only feed the ego. The idea is that we will do what we will do, and at various points on the learning cycle, what we do can have bigger or lesser influence.

 

[agni]

If someone was doing the Work and making progress, the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. That in itself is STS and mechanical thinking. It is selfish.

Well, Nienna , it is again a matter of subjectivity. You think having a child is selfish while I think it could be not.

Hi Acaja, Could you explain your reasoning as to how wanting and having a child might not be STS. I can see how having a child from the result of a rape could be seen as not being STS, but then that doesn't seem to have the wanting aspect to it.

Yeah okay, well let's say that one day you may feel deeply inside you like having a child, not that you really want it, not that you can explain it , but that you just know it because maybe for some people it makes sense, as well as for some others praticing the Work probably makes sense too. But I agree with the idea that anticipating to raise a child and teach him sounds STS.

I have slightly different perspective on it. Just because there is a deep feeling inside to do something (like having a child) does not make it valid, just like myrriad of other urges or feelings one can have, whether you really want to follow the feelings or not. I personally do not see how a choice of having a child in this STS world can be STO in any way.

Acting out of personal urge or feeling seems to me STS in nature. What a child to be has to do with these urges or deep feelings one has ?

However, I might be not seeing something and would be more than happy to find out more :)

 

[anart]

I have slightly different perspective on it. Just because there is a deep feeling inside to do something (like having a child) does not make it valid, just like myrriad of other urges or feelings one can have, whether you really want to follow the feelings or not. I personally do not see how a choice of having a child in this STS world can be STO in any way.

Acting out of personal urge or feeling seems to me STS in nature. What a child to be has to do with these urges or deep feelings one has ?

However, I might be not seeing something and would be more than happy to find out more :)

I tend to agree. When a person is a machine, all 'deep urges' are mechanical (thus entropic). It cannot be any other way.

 

[Menna]

"Quote
"If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it. First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself. This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think."

In this sense, and if our progression is "outside of linear time" so to say, the concept of being more or less important, talented or able is not appropriate, imo, and can only feed the ego. The idea is that we will do what we will do, and at various points on the learning cycle, what we do can have bigger or lesser influence."

Keit - Thanks for the quote and the statement that follows it - my stress levels just went down alot, will have to keep this in mind on a daily/weekly basis but at the same time try not to use it as a crutch.

I was looking at the original (correct) quote "nobody is a nobody" and then took a look at what I said saying "everyone is important."

I am going to use a number scale to look at this in another way...

If nobody equals the number 0 and important equals the number 10 and nobody is a nobody then no one is a 0 but that doesn't mean that everyone is a 10. So my quote is taking a giant leap saying that everyone is a 10. I should of said everyone is relevant - relevant meaning that they fit somewhere in the 0-10 scale higher than 0 wether it be a 1 or a 6 . I like to think and explain myself using random examples ;)

 

[Acaja]

If someone was doing the Work and making progress, the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. That in itself is STS and mechanical thinking. It is selfish.

Well, Nienna , it is again a matter of subjectivity. You think having a child is selfish while I think it could be not.

Hi Acaja, Could you explain your reasoning as to how wanting and having a child might not be STS. I can see how having a child from the result of a rape could be seen as not being STS, but then that doesn't seem to have the wanting aspect to it.

Yeah okay, well let's say that one day you may feel deeply inside you like having a child, not that you really want it, not that you can explain it , but that you just know it because maybe for some people it makes sense, as well as for some others praticing the Work probably makes sense too. But I agree with the idea that anticipating to raise a child and teach him sounds STS.

I have slightly different perspective on it. Just because there is a deep feeling inside to do something (like having a child) does not make it valid, just like myrriad of other urges or feelings one can have, whether you really want to follow the feelings or not. I personally do not see how a choice of having a child in this STS world can be STO in any way.

Acting out of personal urge or feeling seems to me STS in nature. What a child to be has to do with these urges or deep feelings one has ?

However, I might be not seeing something and would be more than happy to find out more :)

Hi agni,

What does the child has to do ? Could the answer be in your question? That is, the child has to do nothing but BEing born, because of these feelings we describe.The child will DO and BE because of this opportunity of "doing" and "being". To be honest, I really wonder if, when we say " you shall want a child because it is STS", we do realise one simple thing : we, all around here and all around the world, are children. You are, I am, Jesus was...everyone. In the latter, the birth led to a man who choosed to dedicate his life to his fellow creatures.The consequences of a STS thinking mode are not automatically STS, thank God, or there would be no goal to live at all since the party is lost since the begginning. No point to even try. So imo if we are here to do something, (Work or whatever) we should never forget from were we come.Yet we seem to consider this fact (that we're all children) as an act of pure selfishness. I can't recall the exact thread, but I remember reading someone asking if having/wanting a pet was STS, and I think the Cs said something like" not always". I don't want to sound too new agey but, there may be a few people on this planet whose birth arose from an act of pure love. Do we allow ourselves to at least consider this possibility?

 

[anart]

Hi agni,

What does the child has to do ? Could the answer be in your question? That is, the child has to do nothing but BEing born, because of these feelings we describe.The child will DO and BE because of this opportunity of "doing" and "being". To be honest, I really wonder if, when we say " you shall want a child because it is STS", we do realise one simple thing : we, all around here and all around the world, are children. You are, I am, Jesus was...everyone. In the latter, the birth led to a man who choosed to dedicate his life to his fellow creatures.The consequences of a STS thinking mode are not automatically STS, thank God, or there would be no goal to live at all since the party is lost since the begginning. No point to even try. So imo if we are here to do something, (Work or whatever) we should never forget from were we come.Yet we seem to consider this fact (that we're all children) as an act of pure selfishness. I can't recall the exact thread, but I remember reading someone asking if having/wanting a pet was STS, and I think the Cs said something like" not always". I don't want to sound too new agey but, there may be a few people on this planet whose birth arose from an act of pure love. Do we allow ourselves to at least consider this possibility?

Hi Acaja, I'm not really sure what relevance what you've written here has to the topic at hand. Of course, every one was once a child - but that has nothing to do with the conversation and, especially, the discussion about 'wanting' a child for self-serving reasons. Ultimately, all 'want' is self-serving, but this thread has a very specific focus regarding 'want' and children.

 

[Acaja]

Sorry I thought there was an underlying question about procreation, since the initial topic was " is there a specific purpose for people who cannot have a child ?" . But if you see no link between the fact that we're children, the act of wanting to have child, and the Work we are trying to do, then yes, my participation has no relevance at all and I should just go.

 

[Menna]

Yes we were all children at one point and I don't think any one is saying having children is wrong. What I take away from the previous posts is that if you WANT to raise a child in a certain way or you feel you NEED a child for a certain reason then that is STS. Most parents don’t let children be or let them gravitate towards what they want, STS parents want their children to be like them or follow a certain path other than the child’s path.

Before this topic I thought that everyone should be working on themselves and participating in the work and any other way of living would be a waist but that is STS thinking.

 

[Renaissance]

Before this topic I thought that everyone should be working on themselves and participating in the work and any other way of living would be a waist but that is STS thinking.

Have you had a chance to read In Search of the Miraculous? It talks about this as well a ton of other useful stuff for those beginning the Work. If you are serious about it, it really helps clear up things and provide the tools needed. Without 'em it's much harder to navigate the obstacles unique to starting to do the Work, and it potentially can keep you from causing damage to your self and/or others.