Not being able to create another human being/soul?

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Like the C's say everyone is important so that one child could have a positive impact on this earth and enlighten others especially someone with the guidance of a mother or father who has worked on themselves.

And so can their mother/father. Anticipating what your child will become or will do also seems narcissistic to me, and not respecting the child's free will. And sure the child "could" have a positive impact, but that's just one possibility. I think a much better bet to have a positive impact on the world is if someone chooses to do so themselves, and there is a much higher chance of success than betting that your child will do it. What you do is under your control - what your child will do, is not.

I don't know how much time we have but I don't recommend making decisions by saying "Im not going to do this because the world might end soon" Still going to remember the past, live in the now and plan for the future.

If you remember the past and live in the now - do you not see the world heading for disaster? You must not have a very good memory, or awareness of the now. What would you recommend as useful factors in the decision? If the state of the world and where it is heading is not important in terms of choosing to have a child - why not, and what is?

As for those who are unable to have children, I'd say that this is only as "bad" as they perceive it to be. If they have been conditioned to think that children is what brings meaning to their own existence, then they might feel upset by this. If they haven't, they will be fine. Some people never wanted children despite having the capability to have them, and wouldn't be upset by the news that they can't have them, so it really depends on the person. The short answer I'd give in any case is "make the best of it". Everyone is important - and no one is, since the universe is infinitely capable of taking care of itself. As Atreides says, everybody is not a beautiful and unique snowflake. Don't live through your children, don't assume things about how they will turn out or what they will choose to do with their lives - they are a separate being with their own plans, lessons, goals, desires, and ideas. You are just a vessel through which they enter this world, and who helps them stand on their own feet - they are not an extension of you. So give to the world what you yourself have to give, and let others do what they will. Children have nothing to do with what you learn and what you have to give to this world - that's entirely up to you. If anyone thinks that their child is their own "gift" to the world, they are fooling themselves, they are not "contributing" to the world by having children. It's just a way to rationalize laziness and lack of Doing anything yourself.

 

[Psalehesost]

Anart - Very true maybe the person doesn't want to learn and the parent would be imposing on their free will, just because the paretns wants to teach doesn't mean the child wan'ts to or is ready to learn. - this is a better way to look at it

There you seem to have got that point, but then you forgot it again:

Like the C's say everyone is important so that one child could have a positive impact on this earth and enlighten others especially someone with the guidance of a mother or father who has worked on themselves.

There is no way of knowing that whoever would incarnate would be a soul with a mission to bring a "positive impact". It could just as well be the opposite. Or neither.

Also, given the present situation in the world, I doubt those with such a mission would incarnate at this time, as they would not have the possibility of growing and manifesting their abilities in time.

I wonder what's up with this wishful thinking, wanting and anticipating what you would want a child to be - as opposed to whatever the child would actually be?

 

[Menna]

"If you remember the past and live in the now - do you not see the world heading for disaster? You must not have a very good memory, or awareness of the now. What would you recommend as useful factors in a decision? If the state of the world and where it is heading not important in terms of choosing to have a child - why not?"

I agree that there will be disasters in the future and the world will end there will be a change in densities and some will graduate leaving others to stay. What I am trying to say is that I don’t want to live life making decisions based on the world ending in the future for example. If I wanted to go for my Doctorate Degree I am not going to say well that takes a number of years to complete - the world might end in 2012 so what’s the point im not going to do it.

I agree with everything you said... It is selfish to want your child to do things and live a certain way. Also you bring up a good point saying not being able to have children could be viewed as a bad thing to the people who want them but many don’t want children so the bad and good is relative.

I don’t want to create too much noise – I just thought maybe someone who can’t procreate is meant to approach the work in a different way.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I agree that there will be disasters in the future and the world will end there will be a change in densities and some will graduate leaving others to stay. What I am trying to say is that I don’t want to live life making decisions based on the world ending in the future for example. If I wanted to go for my Doctorate Degree I am not going to say well that takes a number of years to complete - the world might end in 2012 so what’s the point im not going to do it.

Well there is no guarantee what will happen, but things are "bad" in general, and getting worse. If the world ends while you're in the middle of your doctorate, that may not be a disaster - you just stop getting the doctorates and that's that. If the world ends while you're raising a toddler, the toddler won't just disappear.

I don’t want to create too much noise – I just thought maybe someone who can’t procreate is meant to approach the work in a different way.

I'm not sure why that would be the case - what does the ability to procreate have to do with the Work?

 

[Menna]

"I'm not sure why that would be the case - what does the ability to procreate have to do with the Work?"

I don't know what it has to do with the work thats why I asked. (Sorry if that came across as being a smart ass but in all honesty I thought it is a unique situation was thinking about it and wanted to know how and if it fit into the work in a different way.)

I believe that there is a reason why someone is born with a disease or sickness and wanted to know if anyone had experience with this. Ways to overcome it if someone is having a hard time excepting the fact.

 

[Turgon]

I believe that there is a reason why someone is born with a disease or sickness and wanted to know if anyone had experience with this.

This could be due to karma or some aspect of certain lessons the individual needs to learn. What those lessons are, and how the disease or sickness relates to it is something the individual needs to come to understand. So many people these days may not be born with certain diseases, but with the amount of toxins and chemicals in just about everything, this is slowly changing. So at some point, everyone has to deal with disease and sickness, the severity, specific issues and onset being different for different people.

 

[Nienna]

If someone was doing the Work and making progress, the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. That in itself is STS and mechanical thinking. It is selfish.

Doing the Work is a personal thing. It doesn't matter if you are able to have children and decide not to, or you cannot have children, or if you are sick, or any other of a gazillion things. Doing the Work is basically the same, you learn about your programs, which having a child so you could teach it would be one of them, see them for what they are and learn how to get in control of the programs. One doesn't really have anything to do with the other except as something to see as narcissistic and learn about it and get it under control.

 

[Acaja]

If someone was doing the Work and making progress, the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. That in itself is STS and mechanical thinking. It is selfish.

Well, Nienna , it is again a matter of subjectivity. You think having a child is selfish while I think it could be not. So for you, your opinion may be right as well as it may be for me too. So in a sense you're right and I am too, and if so then who's wrong? who's right? My point is, having a child is perhaps just what it is : having a child. It could be STS , STO... but it only depends on what you put in it.

I used to blame my friends when they were telling me they did not want children because I really did not understand why. But now I've learned that the most important thing to understand is the acceptance that there are people who want children, and there are people who just don't. No one's right and no one's wrong: just free will and objectivity.

 

[nwigal]

If someone was doing the Work and making progress, the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. That in itself is STS and mechanical thinking. It is selfish.

Doing the Work is a personal thing. It doesn't matter if you are able to have children and decide not to, or you cannot have children, or if you are sick, or any other of a gazillion things. Doing the Work is basically the same, you learn about your programs, which having a child so you could teach it would be one of them, see them for what they are and learn how to get in control of the programs. One doesn't really have anything to do with the other except as something to see as narcissistic and learn about it and get it under control.

Very true. I think there is still a hidden genetic game being played out. I've seen people convinced they were co-creating the next Christ, only to serve up the next little monster. I've also seen completely asleep people bringing the most interesting souls into the world.

 

[Menna]

I c now… The work isn’t the right or wrong way to live it’s a personal choice I was starting to think that everyone should work on themselves in this way or else they are not living life the right way. Thanks for steering me clear of that mentality...Wanting to bring a child in the world to teach about the work would be the same as bringing a child in the world and wanting them to play sports or sing. Not letting them live life how they want to. Almost like having a child with a hidden agenda. Yes that is very STS. Wanted to know if there was a special way that someone who can't have children should approach the work and the response seems to be - approach it like everyone else experience and learn. Thanks for the help.

 

[Psalehesost]

Well, Nienna , it is again a matter of subjectivity. You think having a child is selfish while I think it could be not. So for you, your opinion may be right as well as it may be for me too. So in a sense you're right and I am too, and if so then who's wrong? who's right? My point is, having a child is perhaps just what it is : having a child. It could be STS , STO... but it only depends on what you put in it.

The discussion was not just about having a child, but about wanting to have a child to "teach". The wanting, desire, anticipation is the issue and it is STS by definition.

[...] there are people who want children, and there are people who just don't. No one's right and no one's wrong: just free will and objectivity.

That may or may not be the case. Why does someone want a child - this is a very important issue. In the reason for having a child there can be plenty of subjectivity involved, and plenty of "wrong". Stating that all is equal and "free will and objectivity" is denying reality.

 

[Acaja]

Well, Nienna , it is again a matter of subjectivity. You think having a child is selfish while I think it could be not. So for you, your opinion may be right as well as it may be for me too. So in a sense you're right and I am too, and if so then who's wrong? who's right? My point is, having a child is perhaps just what it is : having a child. It could be STS , STO... but it only depends on what you put in it.

The discussion was not just about having a child, but about wanting to have a child to "teach". The wanting, desire, anticipation is the issue and it is STS by definition.

[...] there are people who want children, and there are people who just don't. No one's right and no one's wrong: just free will and objectivity.

That may or may not be the case. Why does someone want a child - this is a very important issue. In the reason for having a child there can be plenty of subjectivity involved, and plenty of "wrong". Stating that all is equal and "free will and objectivity" is denying reality.

Yes OK my bad I didn't get the clear distinction between wanting and having thanks. Indeed there can be some "wrong" things for wanting to have a child. Still, there can be not too. I mean, you may want to help someone who's asking for your help, but you can also may wanna help someone who's not asking you anything. In the first case you may say it is "right" and in the second that it is "wrong".In this example, the "good" wanting process is synchronized with the demand. This is where I'm getting at : wanting to have a child can be selfish but not all the time.
I totally agree with what you said about desire and anticipation, and maybe this child-wanting process is pure when it is synchronized with your true self, whenever you're ready.

 

[Peam]

If someone was doing the Work and making progress, the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. That in itself is STS and mechanical thinking. It is selfish.

Well, Nienna , it is again a matter of subjectivity. You think having a child is selfish while I think it could be not.

Hi Acaja, Could you explain your reasoning as to how wanting and having a child might not be STS. I can see how having a child from the result of a rape could be seen as not being STS, but then that doesn't seem to have the wanting aspect to it.

So for you, your opinion may be right as well as it may be for me too. So in a sense you're right and I am too, and if so then who's wrong? who's right? My point is, having a child is perhaps just what it is : having a child. It could be STS , STO... but it only depends on what you put in it.

In what situation could it be service to others (STO)?

I used to blame my friends when they were telling me they did not want children because I really did not understand why. But now I've learned that the most important thing to understand is the acceptance that there are people who want children, and there are people who just don't. No one's right and no one's wrong: just free will and objectivity.

I agree with what you say, no one's right and not one's wrong, but what's that got to do with whether an act is STS or STO?

 

[Nienna]

If someone was doing the Work and making progress, the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. That in itself is STS and mechanical thinking. It is selfish.

Well, Nienna , it is again a matter of subjectivity. You think having a child is selfish while I think it could be not. So for you, your opinion may be right as well as it may be for me too.

You did not read my full sentence, Acaja. I said "the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. It makes all the difference, or so I think. ;)

 

[Acaja]

If someone was doing the Work and making progress, the last thing they would want to do is have a child to teach. That in itself is STS and mechanical thinking. It is selfish.

Well, Nienna , it is again a matter of subjectivity. You think having a child is selfish while I think it could be not.

Hi Acaja, Could you explain your reasoning as to how wanting and having a child might not be STS. I can see how having a child from the result of a rape could be seen as not being STS, but then that doesn't seem to have the wanting aspect to it.

Yeah okay, well let's say that one day you may feel deeply inside you like having a child, not that you really want it, not that you can explain it , but that you just know it because maybe for some people it makes sense, as well as for some others praticing the Work probably makes sense too. But I agree with the idea that anticipating to raise a child and teach him sounds STS.

So for you, your opinion may be right as well as it may be for me too. So in a sense you're right and I am too, and if so then who's wrong? who's right? My point is, having a child is perhaps just what it is : having a child. It could be STS , STO... but it only depends on what you put in it.


In what situation could it be service to others (STO)?

Well, first of all, I don't think a woman has to be raped to raise a child without feeling guilty to be STS...So how could it be STO...Humm This I'm not sure, my guess is "hey I'm happy to be alive", maybe my parents "wanted" to "have" me and by doing so they would be STS, but now that I'm growing adult I begin to understand little by little what Work life's left for me. SO I was raised from a STS wishfull thinking, probably, but the opportunity to be here gives me the chance to try to help people the better I can. I guess this is why we are all here in this forum, helping each other. So you see, by serving themselves, my parents could be serving others, even if it was not the initial intent. Kind of a STS's STO side effect. So to make myself clear, having a child could be for the same reason we are all here, that is making an opportunity to help the world that can be used or not by the child, because it is his choice.

I'm glad Laura was born you know. Is her birth not a STO direction ?

I used to blame my friends when they were telling me they did not want children because I really did not understand why. But now I've learned that the most important thing to understand is the acceptance that there are people who want children, and there are people who just don't. No one's right and no one's wrong: just free will and objectivity.


I agree with what you say, no one's right and not one's wrong, but what's that got to do with whether an act is STS or STO?

Nothing. Just some garbage I sometimes make.