NSA Leaks, Edward Snowden: Genuine whistleblower or psy-op?

HowToBe

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Interesting discussion. I tend to keep quiet, but this is partly because of being asocial as a result of my schooling/childhood and partly because of fear which I must admit to. (I suppose the two must be connected.) But since I live with my parents and have few resources I am wary of drawing any negative attention. I think I'm paranoid and have a messed up sense of self/responsibility, but reading the narcissism books is starting to shed some light on this and open the hope of healing and learning to be more courageous while not opening my family to unnecessary risk. Or so I think.

At present I hardly use Facebook due to mentioned paranoia, and also because I'm not very experienced or outgoing socially. Usual social programming, I presume, which I'm trying to learn about, observe, and hopefully cast off as much as possible.

FWIW. :)
 

Minas Tirith

Jedi Council Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Thanks for your comments.

Here is the original very informative Guardian article that also gives the names of the companies involved: Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook, YouTube and many more

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data

Some snippets:

The program facilitates extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information. The law allows for the targeting of any customers of participating firms who live outside the US, or those Americans whose communications include people outside the US.

It also opens the possibility of communications made entirely within the US being collected without warrants.

Some of the world's largest internet brands are claimed to be part of the information-sharing program since its introduction in 2007. Microsoft – which is currently running an advertising campaign with the slogan "Your privacy is our priority" – was the first, with collection beginning in December 2007.

It was followed by Yahoo in 2008; Google, Facebook and PalTalk in 2009; YouTube in 2010; Skype and AOL in 2011; and finally Apple, which joined the program in 2012. The program is continuing to expand, with other providers due to come online.

Companies are legally obliged to comply with requests for users' communications under US law, but the Prism program allows the intelligence services direct access to the companies' servers. The NSA document notes the operations have "assistance of communications providers in the US".

A chart prepared by the NSA, contained within the top-secret document obtained by the Guardian, underscores the breadth of the data it is able to obtain: email, video and voice chat, videos, photos, voice-over-IP (Skype, for example) chats, file transfers, social networking details, and more.

The document is recent, dating to April 2013. Such a leak is extremely rare in the history of the NSA, which prides itself on maintaining a high level of secrecy.
How convenient that the new document with all necessary updated information leaked :halo:

NSA declassified parts of the document this morning
_http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/08/dni-declassifies-prism-data-collection-nsa-secret-program-obama/2403999/

M.T.
 

Minas Tirith

Jedi Council Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Carlise said:
As far as I'm concerned, these creeps can spy on me all they want. I think a big part of this is actually making people fearful of speaking out.

I remember as a teenager when I was first getting into this conspiracy stuff, I was really full of fear of the bad guys who control our world, and all this awful stuff they're planning. Since coming here though, I've noticed an entirely different attitude. One of just sadness and contempt for the psychos, but also humor at the ridiculousness of the whole situation. Maybe I've just become jaded, but no matter what tricks they pull out, I'm still gonna keep doing what is in me to do. That is learning, trying to develop myself, and networking with people who also want change.

Sure, stories like this should be shared and discussed, but we don't need the attitude of fear and paranoia that comes with them, which seems an inseparable part sometimes.
Thanks for this, even though I feel it's getting more and more difficult not to get paranoid. I must admit that my fear levels have risen lately and would appreciate any suggestion what to do about it ...

M.T.
 

Anthony

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

My guess is that the reason for pushing even more surveilance down our throats
is that they feel they are losing power, perhaps expecting Turkey like events.
And the more they continue, the more their plan will back fire and further speed up
what they want to prevent.
 

loreta

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Minas Tirith said:
Carlise said:
As far as I'm concerned, these creeps can spy on me all they want. I think a big part of this is actually making people fearful of speaking out.

I remember as a teenager when I was first getting into this conspiracy stuff, I was really full of fear of the bad guys who control our world, and all this awful stuff they're planning. Since coming here though, I've noticed an entirely different attitude. One of just sadness and contempt for the psychos, but also humor at the ridiculousness of the whole situation. Maybe I've just become jaded, but no matter what tricks they pull out, I'm still gonna keep doing what is in me to do. That is learning, trying to develop myself, and networking with people who also want change.

Sure, stories like this should be shared and discussed, but we don't need the attitude of fear and paranoia that comes with them, which seems an inseparable part sometimes.
Thanks for this, even though I feel it's getting more and more difficult not to get paranoid. I must admit that my fear levels have risen lately and would appreciate any suggestion what to do about it ...

M.T.
I feel the same. Some subjects, for example, I am scare to touch, in Facebook. For example: I try to control myself concerning the acts of the government (Spain). I never talk against the King, his Majesty. These two subjects I think make me feel paranoid knowing how this government is. But for the rest I feel free and without fear.

Some days I am more paranoid then other days, some times I am so angry that I say what I need to say, king or no king. Some subjects need to be criticized.
 

Scottie

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Psalehesost said:
To go silent out of fear is to sell out, to buy (an illusion of) physical security at the cost of integrity and everything that is worthwhile.

If we stop doing what matters, we might as well be dead. I'd much rather take a small risk of being killed at some point by the PTB than to die inside at this moment.
I tend to agree. Yes, one must be careful. For example, if Nazis invade and occupy your town, you really shouldn't walk outside and give them a piece of your mind, because you'll probably be shot.

On the other hand, when things are not yet that bad, it is more or less one's duty to speak out and stand up for the truth if you see it. If you don't, who will? Waiting for the "other guy" to do it is effectively compliance with the bad guys.

The trick is to know when to back down as a strategy in order to live to fight another day.

And then, there is the idea that in standing up for the truth and acquiring knowledge, we can develop a sort of protection... as in "knowledge protects". Fear and paranoia are natural, but if they are running the show, you're screwed.

We all want to know that we will be safe, and THEN we'll speak out. Well, what if that's backwards? What if the way it really works is that once we take a stand, and take action, that changes something where new opportunities arise and new help arrives in some form that would not have even existed if we had given in to our fear? If we can pay attention to objective reality, of course!

The one thing that the Dark T-shirts count on is that we will think it's all black or white, that there is no grey area, and there is no hope. In which case we will just give up, and they will get exactly what they want.
 

Windmill knight

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Mr. Scott said:
We all want to know that we will be safe, and THEN we'll speak out. Well, what if that's backwards? What if the way it really works is that once we take a stand, and take action, that changes something where new opportunities arise and new help arrives in some form that would not have even existed if we had given in to our fear? If we can pay attention to objective reality, of course!
Indeed. One simple example is that if you speak out and make yourself visible, and then something bad happens to you, people will know why that was. You will be a martyr and your message will be validated. And they don't want that.

A tyranny requires lies and secrets to keep going. If you make your life as truthful and transparent as possible (within reason), their job of lying about you, so they can later justify getting you, will be harder. Wise as serpents and gentle as doves.
 

Nicholas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Looks like the NSA whistle blower has revealed himself and explains his motive:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance
 

Scottie

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Oh wait:

Mr Obama said he welcomed debate on “balancing the need to keep the American people safe and our concerns about privacy, because they are some trade-offs involved”. But he added: “You can’t have a hundred per cent security and also then have a hundred privacy and zero inconvenience.”
Say what?!

Obama cannot provide 100% security. No one can. There is no such thing as being "100% safe".

Thus, I'll take more privacy, thank you very much.

And if his idea of keeping the American people "safe" is false flag events like 9/11 and the Boston Bombings, well, he and the whole gang of psychopaths can keep those, too.

Google and Facebook are the least of my worries.
 

Rich

The Living Force
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Mr. Scott said:
Obama cannot provide 100% security. No one can. There is no such thing as being "100% safe".

Thus, I'll take more privacy, thank you very much.

And if his idea of keeping the American people "safe" is false flag events like 9/11 and the Boston Bombings, well, he and the whole gang of psychopaths can keep those, too.

Google and Facebook are the least of my worries.
I hear ya!

The only people the $billions spent on surveillance aparatus is intended to keep 'safe' is that gang at the top who will try whatever they can to maintain their control.
 

l apprenti de forgeron

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

Pob said:
Mr. Scott said:
Obama cannot provide 100% security. No one can. There is no such thing as being "100% safe".

Thus, I'll take more privacy, thank you very much.

And if his idea of keeping the American people "safe" is false flag events like 9/11 and the Boston Bombings, well, he and the whole gang of psychopaths can keep those, too.

Google and Facebook are the least of my worries.
I hear ya!

The only people the $billions spent on surveillance aparatus is intended to keep 'safe' is that gang at the top who will try whatever they can to maintain their control.
Right! The crazy thing is that with the lies of national security, the people will be dispossessed of all (and as you can see so far, with massive support). I think the people should not give authority to a security system the type of Stalin, the new state-corporate-totalitarian. I think we do not should support the arrest of criminals with methods of a fascist police because then the elite pathological used the same methods against innocent people, but people that is not afraid to talk about the global cancer, the psychopaths in power. It's like a recurring syndrome, perhaps? As the "temptation" of 4d sts? Once you allow access, they can do whatever they want. The same with the psychopaths. Once you allow them to catch criminals in a fascist (or inhuman) way, they can go much further. Or if the majority allows murder to those who have raised their voice against the terror imposed by the ptb, also another marker by the C's.
What else has to happen for the masses (including the op and his irrepressible follow the leader/s) begin to rebel and not feed the lies of the pathological? And this guy, Edward Snowden, looks like he has retired well paid.
 

HowToBe

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

l apprenti de forgeron said:
Pob said:
Mr. Scott said:
Obama cannot provide 100% security. No one can. There is no such thing as being "100% safe".

Thus, I'll take more privacy, thank you very much.

And if his idea of keeping the American people "safe" is false flag events like 9/11 and the Boston Bombings, well, he and the whole gang of psychopaths can keep those, too.

Google and Facebook are the least of my worries.
I hear ya!

The only people the $billions spent on surveillance aparatus is intended to keep 'safe' is that gang at the top who will try whatever they can to maintain their control.
Right! The crazy thing is that with the lies of national security, the people will be dispossessed of all (and as you can see so far, with massive support). I think the people should not give authority to a security system the type of Stalin, the new state-corporate-totalitarian. I think we do not should support the arrest of criminals with methods of a fascist police because then the elite pathological used the same methods against innocent people, but people that is not afraid to talk about the global cancer, the psychopaths in power. It's like a recurring syndrome, perhaps? As the "temptation" of 4d sts? Once you allow access, they can do whatever they want. The same with the psychopaths. Once you allow them to catch criminals in a fascist (or inhuman) way, they can go much further. Or if the majority allows murder to those who have raised their voice against the terror imposed by the ptb, also another marker by the C's.
What else has to happen for the masses (including the op and his irrepressible follow the leader/s) begin to rebel and not feed the lies of the pathological? And this guy, Edward Snowden, looks like he has retired well paid.
FWIW, I'm reminded of the story that a vampire cannot enter your home until you invite him in.
 

Minas Tirith

Jedi Council Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

l apprenti de forgeron said:
And this guy, Edward Snowden, looks like he has retired well paid.
Where did you get that?

M.T.
 

anart

The Living Force
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

I think it's important for people to consider the idea that nothing is leaked about the NSA (or any intelligence organization) without the knowledge and approval of said organization. We found out about the surveillance because they wanted us to find out about the surveillance - the 'outrage' by the establishment is all theater. It's always been this way and I, personally, think it always will. Try not to fall for the idea that Snowden is a 'hero' - he's almost certainly just doing his job.
 

Don Genaro

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Re: Prism - Or do you really want to keep your Google Mail and Facebook

anart said:
I think it's important for people to consider the idea that nothing is leaked about the NSA (or any intelligence organization) without the knowledge and approval of said organization. We found out about the surveillance because they wanted us to find out about the surveillance - the 'outrage' by the establishment is all theater. It's always been this way and I, personally, think it always will. Try not to fall for the idea that Snowden is a 'hero' - he's almost certainly just doing his job.
Interesting - just after I read this, I saw this article crop up on Facebook...
_http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/nsa-leaker-are-there-serious-cracks-in-ed-snowdens-story/

First, I’m not doubting the documents Ed Snowden has brought forward. I’m not doubting the illegal reach of the NSA in spying on Americans and the world.

But as to how this recent revelation happened, and whether Ed Snowden’s history holds up…I have questions.

Could Snowden have been given extraordinary access to classified info as part of a larger scheme? Could he be a) an honest man and yet b) a guy who was set up to do what he’s doing now?

If b) is true, then Snowden fits the bill perfectly. He wants to do what he’s doing. He isn’t lying about that. He means what he says.
I also think that they've been recording everything for years; nothing new there but thanks for the reminder Anart :)- it helped me deal with that nagging "something's not right" feeling I get when I see stuff like this going viral. Yep, I guess they're getting desperate and using all their tricks to instill fear :phaser:
 
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