Obsession with beauty - Plastic surgeries - Trans (Katoi from Thailand)

[Ben]

Since most of the results of these lip filling and Botox treatments are so obviously worse than the before pictures (some grotesquely so) it brought something to mind. That is, the distortions of perception associated with things like 'Body Dysmorphia', Anorexia and so on. But more interesting - distortions associated with right brain hemisphere dysfunction as documented by Iain McGilchrist. Are people focusing on details like fullness of lips and losing sight of the integrated whole? ie. their face in correct proportion and with natural appearance. Because it seems to me that things have moved from subtle enhancements like slightly fuller lips to something which has obviously gone too far (including among seemingly younger and younger women) and most men would dislike. Why isn't this obvious? Am I assuming too much there, and are men driving this process too with what they find attractive?

Maybe it's something as mundane as treatments being more widely available and affordable, because I notice more and more people with obvious and quite weird enhancements.

 

[SOTTREADER]

I think the pressure on beauty is different between the genders.

For adult men, I think the larger pressure is around being perceived as capable and secure, not so much about looks. I think looks come into play if you are failing on the being perceived as capable and secure bit. There's also pressure on having social skills which doesn't necessarily come as easy to most men as it does to most women. I'm actually of the school that some pressure on outward physical appearance on men isn't the worst thing as long as this pressure doesn't become overbearing or pathological - guys need to care about their fitness/physical health, and also not being slobs (which is easier for guys to become who spend most of their childhood locked in their rooms playing video games).

I think the pressures on women is different. I'd say it is to a large degree driven by market forces which takes advantage of vulnerabilities to push products. Don't underestimate the power of advertising, social pressure and psychological vulnerability to absolutely discombobulate you.

Ultimately I don't believe anyone can really change their appearance, what you can do is try and be healthy, including watching your diet, and not coming across as a slob. What more can anyone do beyond this?

Another thing that came to mind is beauty standards like anything else, can be latched onto by pathological people to terrorise other people. The same way the current male fitness "influencer" industry is not really about fitness but pushing things to the extreme in a pathological way. There will always be people who will latch on to normal drives and inclinations and look to absolutely invert them and then push the inversion to the masses as desirable. People are always trying to carve out niches for themselves because it's in these spaces that they feel unique and special - when all the "normal" space is taken up by the masses, some people will then start to occupy the abnormal spaces to be unique, and different.

We humans are fragile things, easy to be manipulated, especially once isolated.

 

[meadow_wind]

Why isn't this obvious? Am I assuming too much there, and are men driving this process too with what they find attractive?

Maybe it's something as mundane as treatments being more widely available and affordable, because I notice more and more people with obvious and quite weird enhancements.

Hard to tell, right?

I don't know if you looked at the bodybuilder documentaries that Bastian posted, as well as the male/female fashion trends throughout the centuries/decades. It shows that in many cases, people are following trends as a group, like sheep, and I think it's known in psychology as the herd movement, because people don't want to be rejected by the herd. This was especially true for people navigating the higher ladders of society (the rich and nobles) who spent most of their time gossiping about each other.
It also shows how individuals' perceptions are skewed (polls were made).

No matter the case, in Western societies, whether it be men's fitness or female beauty, people's expectations have become unrealistic.
In Asia, I'm not sure they have reached that point yet, but they seem to be more widely obsessed with aesthetics in general.

In any case, it seems like in Asia, even though more people seem to have recourse to interventions, they opt for a more natural look or fixing small imperfections, as opposed to the West, where we celebrate the ugly, the grotesque, being decadent, etc.

when all the "normal" space is taken up by the masses, some people will then start to occupy the abnormal spaces to be unique, and different.

You nailed it!

 

[Lucelle]

The question I still cannot answer remains: how to break free from this sick mindset? The phrases about how beauty comes from the inside, how our characters matter, not the looks—they don't really work

As the Cs have said, it is the soul that matters, not the body.

Growing up in the East, perhaps it stems from us being insecure, and being made to believe that the West is the standard, including looks, possessions and whatnots. It's like the West is our cool sibling and what my cool sibling has, I should have too.

Currently, in the Philippines, Im not sure where it came from but it seems like rhinoplasty has become an overnight trend. People would say that there is nothing wrong with enhancing our body and I think that there is also nothing wrong with not having to enhance the body if it still functions the way it has to, which makes me think that, sometimes, it is just feeding one's ego, and the notion of having to have privileges from having a pretty face.

Also, I forgot the title of the article and I would still have to find it where I read that we naturally gravitate into what we find attractive, depends on how the person defines the term, because it feeds our deeper psychological needs for connection, inclusion, and identity.

 

[loreta]

Also, I forgot the title of the article and I would still have to find it where I read that we naturally gravitate into what we find attractive, depends on how the person defines the term, because it feeds our deeper psychological needs for connection, inclusion, and identity.

I'm going to be very frank, what attracts me are not handsome men, on the contrary, the more handsome they are, the more they annoy me. The more perfect they are, the more imperfect I find them. It's more the energy that attracts, not the physical. Beauty is something very relative and personal. Kindness is attractive, for me. The look. The smile. The voice. That's what makes a beautiful face. And if the gentleman also likes to read and adores dogs, well, that's a plus. And if he's also chubby, that's a plus. For me, beauty is elsewhere. In the heart, in someone's spirit.

 

[Kelly]

Interesting topic altogether, It's many things in one, yet ego is obsessed with attaining a certain beauty standard. I feel one can consider beauty overlays as an implant or a filter blocking the heart for understanding what true beauty is in either another person or the self. It's actually a natural thing for us wanting to have "eternal youth" and the elixer of health, as aging is a disease, and the original human was not meant to life in such a short time span. But as many things completely twisted into unhealthy beauty standards and death dropping obsessions. And the archetypical influence of the "princess" in it's negative influence. In how she's narcissistic shallow and obsessed with beauty. It doesn't matter much what gender or body we are in. It's ok to take care of the body and to look well taken care of, these overlays/implant of the princess are both in man and woman, and can be removed

 

[Fluffy]

I'm going to be very frank, what attracts me are not handsome men, on the contrary, the more handsome they are, the more they annoy me. The more perfect they are, the more imperfect I find them. It's more the energy that attracts, not the physical. Beauty is something very relative and personal. Kindness is attractive, for me. The look. The smile. The voice. That's what makes a beautiful face. And if the gentleman also likes to read and adores dogs, well, that's a plus. And if he's also chubby, that's a plus. For me, beauty is elsewhere. In the heart, in someone's spirit.

Awesome, I like that too. I cant stand a vain man who obsesses about his looks and is always checking himself out in the mirror flexing his muscles or looking around to see who is noticing him, it’s by far worse than a woman acting the same IMO.
From my perceptive a man acting like that is a good part of the reason a woman would feel insecure in herself, how on earth would she feel like a natural beauty when her man is busy adoring and seeking approval for his own looks, how can he reassure her that she’s beautiful the way she is when he doesn’t accept himself.

 

[mkrnhr]

I think it could be useful to distinguish "hotness" from beauty. An additional category of "attractiveness" would be grace, which is almost never talked about. Most plastic surgery "enhancements" target hotness, often mistaken for beauty. Very often, in excess, it becomes grotesque, where a person becomes a caricature of a person. Maybe it's a symptom of living in a hyper-urbanized fake society.

 

[Arwenn]

I think it could be useful to distinguish "hotness" from beauty. An additional category of "attractiveness" would be grace, which is almost never talked about. Most plastic surgery "enhancements" target hotness, often mistaken for beauty. Very often, in excess, it becomes grotesque, where a person becomes a caricature of a person. Maybe it's a symptom of living in a hyper-urbanized fake society.

This, absolutely. It’s isn’t just about specific looks, it’s also about how a person comports themselves and their demeanour.

I also think that the extreme focus on cosmetic surgery enhancements targeting specific body areas, comes from being very much in the grip of the left hemisphere (LHS) mode of attention as per McGilchrist’s hypothesis. It’s like a script or algorithm is followed to achieve ‘beauty’ which turns into the current norms such as Mar-a-Lago face of the elites mentioned earlier- they all look the same, but it’s not pretty.

The LHS does not understand that the whole is so much more the sum of just its parts. Whereas the right hemisphere apprehends the Whole and is aware of its self in relation to something sacred or Other. I feel that attributes like grace and comportment, speak to the whole (perhaps inner light, inner beauty), ie it is a function more of the right hemisphere. And it is interesting looking up the many meanings and contexts of the world ‘grace’- here are some below:

1. Smoothness and elegance of movement.
2. Courteous good will, mercy; clemency.
3. A disposition to be generous or helpful; goodwill.
4. A favor rendered by one who need not do so; indulgence.
5. (In Christian belief) - the favour of God as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings
6. (In Greek mythology) -three beautiful sister goddesses, Aglaia, Euphrosyne, and Thalia, believed to personify and bestow charm, grace and beauty
7. Used as forms of address for a duke, duchess or archbishop
8. A short prayer of thanks said before a meal

Edit: spelling

 

[furryfrog]

There is also the spiritual effects of plastic surgery, gender reassignment, and implants. You need your body to develop your soul body, Imagine what's going to happen with your soul development with a bunch of inorganic matter stuffed inside of you, like breast implants or ass implants. Changing the way you are in a subjective way is STS behaviour, and surgical alterations will help one accelerate on the STS path. STS hates themselves the way they are. STO is the path of loving yourself as you are.

 

[Tuulikki]

So many people are desperate to hang onto their youth. We all had our youth and our time of looking fresh and pretty. It is a rite of passage for most but it doesn't last. The strange and obsessional culture of enhancements is worrying indeed.The women rich enough to afford it, seem to think it is completely necessary to their life and happiness to obtain a pair of hugely outsized breasts which reach the door 30 seconds before they do, and to present the world with humungously thick lips which are, quite frankly, ugly. Lauren Sanchez is a case in point. Do these women not look in the mirror and think...wow, that is not an improvement. I have lips which are on the thinner side. The women of my family have always had this shape. I wouldn't want to enhance them with dubious fillers. They do the job that lips are meant to do quite well and don't need to be interfered with. It seems that ageing gracefully is a thing of the past in many cases. We are a society of attention to the physical and let the spiritual go hang....

 

[Maya]

A year and half ago my doughter needed rhinoplastic surgery to fix very bad deviation after injury complication.
So I dived in researching private clinic to find best solution for her - a doctor who is ORL and great plastic surgeon with good recensions.

And after entered in few groups with mostly cosmetic surgeries informations, before and after photos etc I was shocked
with amount of people, mostly really beautiful women who did some kind of plastic surgery to 'improve'..
Mine thinking was always - who does that ? Celebrities and rich folks, probably.

But this is normal people who take loans and save for years just to upgrade boobs, lift brows etc..

20 years ago it was all fine, same type of beauty was gorgeous and now they all have to do 100 different kinds of fixing,
filling and lifting... and at the end they all look the same, scary barbie dools
My god, it is so sad.
But obviously if you don't have what's beautiful inside, you'll compensate from the outside.
Didn't Cas tell us programing is complete ?

 

[loreta]

Everywhere you go, you are surrounded by advertising, whether it's perfume, underwear, makeup products, etc. that's mostly it, and even ads for movies that have just come out but where the actors are like plastic mannequins. It's through the body that they sell products, and these bodies are anything but normal. They are perfection itself, no wrinkles, no dark circles, no obesity, they are made up from head to toe, the complexion is clear and fresh. And of course they are young, they represent the ideal of a nihilistic society that rejects experience, that rejects learning, that rejects death, and therefore life. As for me, I find them obscene because they are anything but real. They represent nothing, just an ideal of beauty that leaves me cold, for me, as I've already said, beauty is elsewhere. They are obscene because they are plastic dolls, and very sexualized. And I put myself in the place of young girls. And it's not funny how they must feel in front of these perfect dolls.

Fortunately, I belong to the category of senior women, with a young spirit! None of this affects me. I am protected by my experience and I am finally starting to take care of my body, with kindness and respect, but it took time. Our body, said Saint-Exupéry, is a cathedral. Our body is a miracle and beautiful. I know I'm beautiful because my dog Arturo adores me even with my dark circles and wrinkles. That's how it is.

 

[Natus Videre]

During the past few years, I have noticed the proliferation of tattoo/piercing shops. When I walk outside, I often get the impression that everyone has a tattoo! Whenever I meet new people, I try to see if their personality matches with their tattoos. Sometimes, I am blown away by the dichotomy—I remember meeting a young, joyful, smart woman who had horrific serpentine tattoos.

Q: (L) Hmm. Is it possible, as we have speculated, that tattoos can anchor attachments?

A: Yes!

If only people knew...

 

[Serendipity]

A lot of that can stem from the perception that women have it easier in life and that female gender is considered more valuable than male. And from the desire to avoid embracing conscious suffering and struggle that each man has to go through to build and have his value in life. So I'd say in the essence, in many cases the desire to become a woman stems from lazyness and avoiding responsibility (which men have to have if they are to be seen as men, and many women by nature are built to seek avoiding responsibility. it's one of the male female differences broadly speaking) from certain type of men.