Oliver Stones "The Putin Interviews": Historic Documentary about Putin

[Windmill knight]

Well, however you want to view Putin's comment -- and I can assure you, it won't help Stone's greater cause, and I'm surprised he didn't edit that segment -- Putin himself seemed to regret it. It exposed a moment of, if not insecurity, then indecision.

Well, perhaps it has to do with differences in mentality, but to me it didn't look like Putin regretted it, or was insecure or indecisive in any way. It's possible that what he said could offend some American or European women. But perhaps some people (including women) would agree with him too. Bottom line is, he is Russian president, and therefore he should know how to approach Russian people above all. And for Russians it doesn't sound as blunt or disrespectful. More like "stating the things as they really are". Sure, the film intended for the Western public, but even so - the idea was to present Putin and his position (or Russia's position for that matter) in an honest or revealing way possible. Besides, knowing Putin, there was nothing coincidental in anything he said. ;)

I laughed out loud when Putin made that comment and I am a Western woman AND in menopause. But I thought his remark was funny and spot on. Women's natural cycles are (much) more up and down, especially when they are pregnant or menopausal and perhaps unaware of their mechanical nature? I think we in the West often feel offended over nothing and we have to toughen up a little. Just look at all those social justice warriors. Sheesh.

Consider this: If that comment from Putin is the worst they can use against him out of several hours of interviews, then Putin is nothing short of a saint among politicians world wide.

People capable of appreciating the crux of the matter - probably the same people interested enough to bother watching the whole four parts - will know that was trivial compared to everything else said.

 

[987baz]

I didn't think it would be aired here in Australia considering how the media here love to demonise Putin and paint him as an evil tyrant, but it is! Parts 1 & 2 were aired on SBS at 8:30pm & 9:30pm Sunday June 18, parts 3 & 4 are being aired today Sunday 25th June for those Aussies who haven't been able to watch it online.

A quick scan of articles on the series in the Aussie media are exactly as I guessed- this time they demonise both Putin and Stone. Ugh, it disgusts me no end what passes for journalism in this country.

Thanks Arwenn, I've seen the first 2 interviews, now i can watch the other 2 on SBS on Demand :)

And yes, unfortunately journalism here seems just as "controlled" as the rest of the western world :( but it's hardly surprising.

 

[Timótheos]

I laughed out loud when Putin made that comment and I am a Western woman AND in menopause. But I thought his remark was funny and spot on. Women's natural cycles are (much) more up and down, especially when they are pregnant or menopausal and perhaps unaware of their mechanical nature? I think we in the West often feel offended over nothing and we have to toughen up a little. Just look at all those social justice warriors. Sheesh.

Yeah, I had a similar reaction as well. I laughed at first, and thought his explanation that followed was appropriate because he was pointing out something real about the different hormonal cycles of men and women. I didn't get the impression that Putin was being mean or chauvinistic, but merely making a funny, insightful observation.

It did occur to me though, that his comment would probably be pounced upon by liberal Russia-bashers in the west, and thought perhaps he said it deliberately, either to poke them a little or that he simply doesn't care if he's seen as politically incorrect.

 

[luc]

It did occur to me though, that his comment would probably be pounced upon by liberal Russia-bashers in the west, and thought perhaps he said it deliberately, either to poke them a little or that he simply doesn't care if he's seen as politically incorrect.

Yeah, and it's really shocking how brainwashed we are in the West if you think about it. When I heard that comment by Putin, I immediately thought how this might be used to bash him, probably because I could recognize something being triggered in myself as well, thanks to years of brainwashing. Isn't it crazy? He basically says 1+1=2 and people freak out in denial, accuse and attack him etc. That's how far the programming has proceeded.

 

[luc]

I laughed out loud when Putin made that comment and I am a Western woman AND in menopause. But I thought his remark was funny and spot on. Women's natural cycles are (much) more up and down, especially when they are pregnant or menopausal and perhaps unaware of their mechanical nature? I think we in the West often feel offended over nothing and we have to toughen up a little. Just look at all those social justice warriors. Sheesh.

You know, men have these things, too - just witness how men react when a desirable girl enters the room... Or a million other things where hormones and such are involved. But somehow, if a woman said "I'm glad I'm not a man because I would have mood swings whenever I see a girl", everybody would laugh. Not so if you talk about the 'oppressed' (like women), then suddenly stating the obvious becomes a crime. What an Orwellian nightmare.

 

[Heather]

As for being a Russian, it's a Russian cliche, after all -- the strong Bolshevik woman capable of doing what a man can. There's even a recent film -- I will have to look up the title -- about an extraordinary female Russian sharpshooter whom Eleanor Roosevelt befriended.

Yes, Russia is a more "conventional" society, but not one that underestimates the capabilities of its women.

Having "bad days" and having exemplary capabilities aren't mutually exclusive. And I'm pretty sure Putin would agree, since I've heard him say very nice things about Russian women (and women in general!).

Hi again. I wanted to call you "A.I.", then I thought, artificial intelligence?... (maybe not!).

Anyway, I've been meaning to return here, and now I see quite a few other posts on this topic, so maybe this addresses them as well. As I said before, I only brought this up in passing -- it wasn't I who turned this into a lengthier conversation, I've just been responding (!)

Anyway, I appreciated your post, Approaching Infinity, and I agree that having "bad days" and having exemplary capabilities aren't mutually exclusive. The problem, however, has to do with context. In the context in which it was stated -- that is, an interview with the Russian president related to his day to day handling of his job -- it's to say that women wouldn't be able -- or would be less able -- to handle the stresses related to holding the office of presidency. And so in that context the comment is not a ringing endorsement of women's capabilities (!)

Thus, the issue is not about whether women have "bad days" or not. Although, not every woman suffers pain or even discomfort when having a period, so, as usual, generalities can be problematic.

Anyway, I do see a resistance on this thread to simply saying that Putin may have made a mistake in this instance. But even Approaching Infinity's noting how Putin has endorsed women in the past might go to my impression that Putin himself seemed to regret his comment.

I will look at the interview again at some point and see how it reads the second time around, but for me this "bad day" comment stood out as an unfortunate moment -- not just because it may well misrepresent Putin's truer sentiments, but also given it needlessly feeds the Western media with something to seize on when there are obviously other matters encroaching on nuclear war, even, that should be the real focus.

I'd add that I'm not at all someone who doesn't see the hidden and not so hidden dangers associated with political correctness. But there's a caution there as well: it's not liberalism itself that's the problem -- or at least not necessarily -- it's the distortion and misuse of liberal ideas, including its use in masking dangerous criminal agendas (serious research into the Clinton Foundation would be enlightening in this regard).

In other words, I think it would be safe to say that most here believe in (as listed in Wikipedia under Liberalism): "... freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free markets [I'd add fair regulation of free markets], civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, gender equality [or equal rights for both sexes], and international cooperation."

Why even the development of this forum itself is indebted to the liberal belief in free speech.

Actually, something that's come up for me concerning Putin's comment and some of the reactions on this thread is how easy it is for a critique of political correctness related to liberalism's distortion and misuse can turn into a dismissal of liberal values in general. There is that expression, after all: "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!"

Of course, the corruption and distortion of such liberal values continues to be played out through all manner of social engineering, and just the fact that young children are now likely to be exposed to the complexities of transgenderism (which is an area that defies even being questioned and/or analyzed) would seem to be an insidious coopting and distortion and misuse of such liberal beliefs.

But there is a middle ground here. I mean, you can actually allow that Putin made a mistake with his "bad day" comment (for the various reasons I've cited) without necessarily endorsing gender reassignment therapy for five-year-olds (!)

That's sort of a joke, but hopefully I'm making a point -- in the spirit of debate.

 

[Cosmos]

[...]
I think we in the West often feel offended over nothing and we have to toughen up a little. Just look at all those social justice warriors. Sheesh.

Consider this: If that comment from Putin is the worst they can use against him out of several hours of interviews, then Putin is nothing short of a saint among politicians world wide.

People capable of appreciating the crux of the matter - probably the same people interested enough to bother watching the whole four parts - will know that was trivial compared to everything else said.

Bolded above are exactly my thoughts in regards to that comment and yes I found Putins comment also funny and laughed when he made it.

 

[Redrock12]

[...]
I think we in the West often feel offended over nothing and we have to toughen up a little. Just look at all those social justice warriors. Sheesh.

Consider this: If that comment from Putin is the worst they can use against him out of several hours of interviews, then Putin is nothing short of a saint among politicians world wide.

People capable of appreciating the crux of the matter - probably the same people interested enough to bother watching the whole four parts - will know that was trivial compared to everything else said.

Bolded above are exactly my thoughts in regards to that comment and yes I found Putins comment also funny and laughed when he made it.

Ditto that Pashalis. Western civilization is really showing its cancerous tumors, when they can use such an obviously true and honest statement in an attempt to pillory President Putin.

 

[Turgon]

[...]
I think we in the West often feel offended over nothing and we have to toughen up a little. Just look at all those social justice warriors. Sheesh.

Consider this: If that comment from Putin is the worst they can use against him out of several hours of interviews, then Putin is nothing short of a saint among politicians world wide.

People capable of appreciating the crux of the matter - probably the same people interested enough to bother watching the whole four parts - will know that was trivial compared to everything else said.

Bolded above are exactly my thoughts in regards to that comment and yes I found Putins comment also funny and laughed when he made it.

Putin has a dry sense of humor sometimes, like when Stone asked him if he missed him since the last interview, and Putin responded that he spent a few nights weeping.

And sometimes when you make jokes and those listening don't have much of a sense of humor, they will find even the slightest thing to be offensive about it and take it way too seriously. But like was already said, as soon as he said that about women's menstrual cycles, I figured that will be the ONLY thing some people will take away from the documentary, and the main clip used to derail the other 4 hours of the documentary. But again, can you really get through to or please people who are like that anyways?

 

[Cosmos]

Just as a thought experiment. How would be the reaction if the tables were turned? Let's suppose, for the sake of the argument, that Putin would be a woman and Stone would have asked her:

"Do you ever have a bad day?" and then Putin would have responded with:

"No, I don't have bad days, I'm not a man after all. You know, man have these hormonal driven insecurities through which they feel not manly and strong enough compared to other males and in regards to how they are viewed by woman. They also easily have a bad day when they don't get what they want and that is especially true when it is about woman and their own status in the pack order. In that state, not many other things get done."

Now, would the reaction to that original statement from Putin, be as severe as in this second hypothetical case? My guess is that almost no one would be offended there, including man. Why is that? By the way, does that mean that "man" are the "really oppressed" here? ;)

 

[Cosmos]

[...]
I think we in the West often feel offended over nothing and we have to toughen up a little. Just look at all those social justice warriors. Sheesh.

Consider this: If that comment from Putin is the worst they can use against him out of several hours of interviews, then Putin is nothing short of a saint among politicians world wide.

People capable of appreciating the crux of the matter - probably the same people interested enough to bother watching the whole four parts - will know that was trivial compared to everything else said.

Bolded above are exactly my thoughts in regards to that comment and yes I found Putins comment also funny and laughed when he made it.

Putin has a dry sense of humor sometimes, like when Stone asked him if he missed him since the last interview, and Putin responded that he spent a few nights weeping.

A very dry, honest and to the point humor. I almost rolled on the floor when he gave that statement above, it was a truly hilarious and funny statement and I think Stone didn't get offended by it either.

And sometimes when you make jokes and those listening don't have much of a sense of humor, they will find even the slightest thing to be offensive about it and take it way too seriously. But like was already said, as soon as he said that about women's menstrual cycles, I figured that will be the ONLY thing some people will take away from the documentary, and the main clip used to derail the other 4 hours of the documentary. But again, can you really get through to or please people who are like that anyways?

I think the bottom line here might be the truly wise recommendation to prepare and work on ourselves, so that we get less offended by pretty innocent and honest statements, that we often easily view as an "attack" or "oppression" in our western societies. It seems to me that it is exactly those kind of reactions that get ourselves and others into big trouble, because they fuel resentment to be at the centre and other potentially dangerous states of mind. Maybe it is a good idea to get back to Jordan Petersons work here and try to see how we (especially in the west) can really easily get offended nowadays, by pretty much everything that is said or done by anyone, especially if it comes "from the oppressors" like "white males" or more severly "white russian males". I think the main lesson I get out of statements like these and our reactions to them, is to toughen up, or lets say, growing a thicker skin, so that we run into less risks of becoming the next Nazis.

It also smells like an unconscious need for control of all and everything that doesn't correspond with the western liberal mindset.

 

[Turgon]

Just as a thought experiment. How would be the reaction if the tables were turned? Let's suppose, for the sake of the argument, that Putin would be a woman and Stone would have asked her:

"Do you ever have a bad day?" and then Putin would have responded with:

"No, I don't have bad days, I'm not a man after all. You know, man have these hormonal driven insecurities through which they feel not manly and strong enough compared to other males and in regards to how they are viewed by woman. They also easily have a bad day when they don't get what they want and that is especially true when it is about woman and their own status in the pack order. In that state, not many other things get done."

Now, would the reaction to that original statement from Putin, be as severe as in this second hypothetical case? My guess is that almost no one would be offended there, including man. Why is that? By the way, does that mean that "man" are the "really oppressed" here? ;)

Lies! How dare Putin point out something so obvious in men that simply must be true! With the way feminism has turned pathological, it's like the Spice Girls on steroids, so a comment like that would probably be applauded and cheered. There was also a mock debate done earlier this year where the roles were reversed between Trump and Clinton during one of their debates and the reactions to it shows the double standards.

_https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/clinton-trump-gender-swap-play-her-opponent

 

[Mike]

I haven’t watched any of the documentary, but I’m about 2/3 through the book transcript. What comes to mind from reading the interviews is that Putin’s repeated use of ‘partners’ referring to the US and the West and referring to major mistakes made by the USSR, US and other countries in a non-critical way is that he is very much always extending the olive branch with knowledge of history as well as a view to the future where circumstance might change a lot. He also has no interest in judging other countries actions or telling countries what they should do based on an emotional reactions. He gives his opinion, but has respect for countries and people even for the ones who show him and Russia no respect and are outwardly hostile. He has oblivious concern for the well-being of Russia and sees open cooperation and dialogue as the only means of a sane future for the world. He can see the storm coming and is preparing even if this isn’t as obvious from reading the transcript, but always keeping the door open for change and the hope of a better world and better relations with others.

From the transcripts, you get the feel for the discipline in thought and tact Putin and Russia are taking. They are the level heads on the world stage and are not going to let emotional reactions take them away from their goals, however unstated they are besides acting towards Russia interests. Putin even refers to Stone as Anti-American and there is discussion a couple times about this point. Stone seems much more radical in thought than Putin and Putin isn’t going to be led to give away his position and probably his more truthful opinions on some subjects in order to play whatever advantage or goal he had in mind when agreeing to the interviews. Sometimes this is frustrating to read, because you know that Putin must know a lot more.

The way Putin interactions with the US and West on a personal and global scale for the betterment of Russia and the world reminds me somewhat of the control and lack of outward hate and judgement that Caesar showed toward the oligarchs and others and trying not to tear Rome apart. Also, in his mercy and many chances to the opposition in the conquering of Gaul. Putin could have very easily given into frustration and emotions, which could have torn the world apart, given the provocations of the US and the West. He sees mistakes, yet always keeps the door open for others to correct them and to change. To me he is giving the world a chance based on possible hope and trying not to tear it asunder even in the face of those who seem to care less if it is as long as their goals of domination are accomplished. We are all lucky to have a person like him as a major leader in the world.

As a side note, I found this part of the interviews interesting.

OS: Correct me if I’m wrong – I had the impression that the Russians were ahead technically in creating an anti-ballistic missile program.

VP: Not entirely like that. We have more sophisticated air defense systems. But as to anti-ballistic defense, the thing is we have to talk about protecting ourselves from ballistic missiles and ballistic missile strikes with a cosmic velocity. And another type of system is required to counter this threat. These anti-ballistic missiles are just part of a greater anti-ballistic missile system, and these missiles are usually placed on the periphery of the country […]

Wonder what kind of understanding and preparations Russia and Putin has toward cometary fragment swarms and what not and how this plays into the bolded part. Looks like there are at least systems under consideration at least ostensibly to counter human made threats. Maybe the Chelyabinsk meteor was in part a wakeup call in addition to what the US might be working.

 

[Cosmos]

Thanks Bear for that summary, it summarizes well Putins character and view of the world. One notices that there is a whole lot more behind his public statements and that excerpt you brought up is just one of those where you really wonder how much they know and for what scenarios exactly they are preparing.

 

[Heather]

One (hopefully) final note on this: I never used the word "offended." I merely said that it was an unfortunate moment in the interview (again, on the "bad day" comment), and then I analyzed the various ways in which it was unfortunate in the posts I did on this topic in response to what was being said here.

I actually think disagreements can be useful in that they help to sharpen one's own argument, or can point to weaknesses in one's argument, which opens up new things to think about. It's in that spirit that I like to discuss and analyze. But unfortunately when there is disagreement things can get polarized, and then there really is no useful debate going on since the subtler points get overlooked.