Organic Portals: Human variation

[Guest]

I stand by my view that this topic generates cognitive dissonance for you I-Eye. In other words, it makes you very uncomfortable. That's not an accusation by the way. Now let me reply as clear as I can, because perhaps my long answers have added to your confusion.

The 'roots at the underside' in your words I interprete as the teaching that there are two distinguished groups of human beings.
My question dealt with a lexical problem (mixed indeed with a backslash).
But to elaborate the problem: May I give examples how vocabulary affects us on the 'branches' of our reality?

In general, you are concerned IMO that an idea that identifies groups of people can be easily misunderstood and misapplied. I gather you are not trying to say outright (at least not anymore) that the ideal itself should be abandoned, but that in a format of discussion it can be explored.

I cannot help getting the impression, however, that no matter how much the idea is discussed, its basis that people are different individually and as groups, it will still strike you as vulnerable to abuse. So if I am beginning on the right foot here I have the following observations to make:

1) There ARE different groups of people, just as different individuals. The Op/non-OP distinction addresses only one of many possible differences among people.

2) It is actually very difficult for this concept to be abused as physical or cultural distinctions can be abused. Identifying an OP or non-OP is a difficult task, possibly only applicable in prolonged personal relationships. You cannot sweep through a crowd and mark out the OP's to haul them to concentration camps.

3) No matter what sincere people discuss or how they organize their understanding of others, the danger of predjudice will most always come from psychopathic individuals and groups. These people and groups have an intent to be predjudiced and manipulative. It is in their direction that your concerns should be pointed.

4) ALL profound ideas are dangerous. Any truth can be distorted. It is like a scientific discovery that can benefit humanity. Chances are it can be also used for destructive purposes. Yet does this mean we must remain in the stone age? It seems to me you want guarantees that this idea cannot be distorted and misused. I do not think those guarantees can be provided. An idea that is scaled-down and "tamed" to be distortion-proof can only lose its power of benign application IMO.

In other words (at the risk of being overly simplistic): Ideas do not distort people, people distort ideas

Key words exist. They are like buttons. Semitism is a trigger, Jew is a trigger and obviously 'OP' is a trigger too.

Two points here:

First you are missing the point when you mention "Semitism" and "Jews" as examples. The words have been designed as triggers by Pathocrats using these people as scapegoats, while at the same time some of these pathocrats acted out of these groups.

On the other hand, Jews have lived peacefully for centuries in Muslim countries from Persia through the Ottoman Empire, and even in Rome and Byzantium (Roman persecutions were politically motivated, and would be the same for any other group that had revolted). For these cultures the Jew was not a trigger word. Psychopathic Pathocrats made it so. They can also do this with the OP concept, but that does not mean it is invalid.

Second, this word is a trigger for YOU, and you are generalizing your personal response to it. It can also be a trigger for others. Is this a problem of the word or the people being triggered? As one who is NOT triggered by this word I cannot help but believe that the latter possibility is what is going on. This would then shift the focus of discontent with the topic from the word itself to the personal psychology of the person(s) being triggered by it. What makes them different form those who are not triggered? I believe this is the question we should be asking. And it so happens that the discussion on "Organic Portals" addresses that question, without implying that discomfort with the topic necessitates that one is an OP, nor that if one IS an OP they are a second class citizen.

The contrversial point is:
- Is it 'the' reality and the word OP does indeed somehow designate that group?
- Or is it another trial to install or reinstall triggers.

I believe, as I mentioned, you are going down a false path with your designation of the word OP as a trigger. You are depersonalizing the personal and objectifying the subjective. We have already noted in this discussion that OP addresses an effect to which certain people can be inclined. Some people can be hardwired to this effect, and others can be soft-wired to it because they can evolve beyond it, but have not yet done so.

Before you say that my description "evolved beyond it" designates superiority, I need to note that for some people evolving beyond the OP state is part of who they are, and to them being an OP is not compatible with their true organically based being. We have made comparisons of OP's with animals, and if you forget this is an analogy you can be misled. However, I do not consider animals inferior to myself. I consider myself along a human evolutionary path. Within that path this discussion has posited that there are also sub-directions of evolution.

The point was made before that we all have the same rights and privelidges as humans, but we are not the same. What IS predjudicial, in other words, is to deny people their differences, and the right to evolve according to their inclinations.

I also believe you are not looking at the OP concept in an abstract manner, but are trying to associate definitive groups with it as if it was an obvious trait such as hair or skin color. I find it, furthermore, difficult to provide an explanation to prove to you that an abstract idea cannot be a trigger if kept at the abstract level. That is why we are having this discussion, to move into the abstract meaning behind the word, and in those meanings there is no triggering.

And I cannot explain (or maybe do not even think it would be constructive to try to explain) why abstraction does not mean that an idea cannot be observed in action and inspire applications in the real world. To me it is self-evident. So I acknowledge my limitation here.

The only thing I will say is that I believe you are literalizing the abstraction, and getting stuck on the letter of the word while neglecting its spirit.

WHAT is not real? Did you observe that it IS absolutely so but did not have a word for it? Or is it that the systems explains your observation?
we should not forget that the idea of a division is not new. Calvin thought it is predetermined who is from god and who is from the devil.

You seem to be saying once again that observing differences should be something to be avoided. I did not make my observations because I was out to prove something. Experience unavoidably led to the observations. Like you, I resisted the idea of differences at first because of this fear of separating humans into "the blessed" and the "damned". I believe the Calvinists call it the Doctrine of Predestination.

You also seem to be saying that in order to avoid the Calvinist predjudice we must avoid all observations of human difference. You are comparing apples to oranges when saying that OP/non-OP distinctions imply some kind of doctrine of Predestination (which is not an abstract idea, by the way, but very simplistic).

Yet when I fall into the same traps time and again in refusing to aknowledge human differences at some point, stupid, dense and/or stubborn as I may be, I will get the message. So if you ask me if I am sure, I can only say: absolutely.

It is the discussion which gives words a meaning. Any given word has multiple connectors. But they often lay hidden and it depends completely upon how and where a word is used.
Let me give you an example. Would you use 'organic portals' in a newspaper?
That is a master trigger.

Here you are inadvertantly affirming the views on OP's, and your ideas that words have multiple connectors are valid from the standpoint of Organic Portal-like behaviour. I would not want this thread published in the mass media because the level of misunderstanding would result in persecution of the members of this forum just like it did for the early Christians.

And that would be because they respond to words as "triggers" instead of exploring the abstract concepts behind those words.

But discussing a word where conflicting aproaches may broaden or enlighten the sense is completely different. While i would not say it is a process to 'humanize' a word I'd rather think it is the process to explain it within a broader scheme where. Considering the C transcriptions the word has much more connectors as you say.

You are sticking on the word "humanize" and then expanding through definitions of the word, while missing what I was trying to say. Humanize is really nothing more than respectful of human beings as individuals, groups and humanity as a whole. Creating confusion does not necessarily mean one is addressing the complexity of the issue. And I think we are truly discussing things and explaining them within a broader scheme here.

There are two things: A concept and a word. Imagine one (me) who read Lauras material which starts using that word. The reader is left with the newspaper view. (A newspaper gives a dayly progress of political processes. It is up to the reader to collect all parts).
In this approach the word is not explained within a broader context. One is left to collect the data of the material and somehow find a way through it and he may end missunderstanding a concept. This is the danger to simplify a word and it then may function as a trigger.
But a forum is different. It helps finding the connectors within a rather complex framework. Then at least the meaning of the word might be acuratly understood.

You are essentially asking the forum to make all the predigested connections for you and give you a regurgitated meaning for the word that solves your doubts and dissonances. My comments are not the forum, and I cannot be a forum unto myself.

Everyone thinks and expresses what they think, and the task for others is to think as well. There are no guaranteed revelations made to order here. If you have trouble finding the connectors within this complex framework, either point where connectors are needed, or address the problem as rooted in your own perception and thought potential.

The fact remains that many here have observed that elements of this thread do come together toward some kind of overall meaning. Your opinion continues to be your own. If there is a gap, can you bridge it from your end, because I do not see the gap in the material itself?

I am a little confused by the rest of your comments. Do you or do you not believe that a constructive discussion is going on here? You are saying that all information is open to distortion. Yes, and it will always be that way. That is why abstraction (where associations, analogies and comparisons are taken loosly) is necessary. Abstraction means that both sides of your brain are participating in your thought process. It entails analytic logic as well as holistic intuition. Distortion occurs when we rely exclusively on the left brain functions, as you seem to be doing.

This IS a potentially confusing topic, and I would like to stick to my point that the best way to approach it is with both sides of your brain. The same holds true for the other ideas of the C's material you presented in your appendix.

 

[Saman]

I stand by my view that this topic generates cognitive dissonance for you I-Eye. In other words, it makes you very uncomfortable. That's not an accusation by the way. Now let me reply as clear as I can, because perhaps my long answers have added to your confusion.

WHAT is not real? Did you observe that it IS absolutely so but did not have a word for it? Or is it that the systems explains your observation?
we should not forget that the idea of a division is not new. Calvin thought it is predetermined who is from god and who is from the devil.

You seem to be saying once again that observing differences should be something to be avoided. I did not make my observations because I was out to prove something. Experience unavoidably led to the observations. Like you, I resisted the idea of differences at first because of this fear of separating humans into "the blessed" and the "damned". I believe the Calvinists call it the Doctrine of Predestination.

You also seem to be saying that in order to avoid the Calvinist predjudice we must avoid all observations of human difference. You are comparing apples to oranges when saying that OP/non-OP distinctions imply some kind of doctrine of Predestination (which is not an abstract idea, by the way, but very simplistic).

Hi EsoQuest, All,


I also agree with you on the point that I-Eye is comparing apples to oranges. Calvinism is defined as the "the religious doctrines of John Calvin, emphasizing the omnipotence of God and the salvation of the elect by God's grace alone." No one here who is "collinear" with the Cassiopaeans research and Work thinks of themselves of some sort of "elect", or say "elite", with such nonsensical Calvinistic ideas about being superior, or special compared to the rest of Creation/"God", and that some kind of so called God is going to only lend the hand of salvation to the so called special elect, when all there is is lessons and so called salvation does not exist. Is it salvation for one to learn and pass 'Grade 3' and move to 'Grade 4', or is it simply 'natural progression'? "God"/Creation does not bother with such things when "God" manifests in ALL things. It's like saying that "God" is thinking some part of itself as "elect" or "special" and then giving the so called "salvation" to these "elect" parts of itself. Organic Portals are part of Creation, part of "God", just as everything else that IS in Creation. The All does not blink at any part of itself because it is essentially One in a state of Perfect Balance of existence and non-existence. To simply be 'of' "God" is to simply exist; therefore, Organic Portals, the trees, the ants, the air, the atoms, etc. are all 'of' "God" because they exist, and hence they are all equally important and essential parts of the 'Whole' for Creation to be as it IS in a Perfect State of Balance, or so I think.

Just some current thoughts,




Saman

 

[The I-Eye]

I, like many, was brought up in a tradition of liberal universalism ("all men are created equal") so this was a hard concept to confront at first. But it helped explain so much and it helped conserve so much energy that I became more and more comfortable with it as I observed the world.

I also agree that the Gnostic concepts of pneumatics, psychics, and hylics is a similar mapping.

Thank you
'univeralism and equality'. It will be interesting how words appeal to us. Please read on.

Apparently, reactions to topics such as Organic Portals may have similar symptoms with different causes for different people. In some cases it seems we are conditioned to confuse differentiation with inequality, and by proxy equality with sameness. There is a phrase in the "Protocols of the Pathocrats" that drives the point home:

Protocol No.15.6 wrote:

We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM .... They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality ....

Equality with Collectivism does imply Synchronism.
It denies individual time / rhythm.
The essence of it is the 'working class' program.
At this point the word 'organic portal' comes again into my mind. Somehow I think that the alexandrian gnosis took the ideas of their time: the threefold scheme priesthood - warriors/administrators - slaves. It is in the bible with Sem - Japhet - Ham if you connect Ham with the slavery in egypt.
While societies tend to be rather mixed such a threefold presentation is often promoted. It is present in the greek philosophy with pneuma - psyche - hylos. Gnosis took this scheme but filled it with other meanings.

Gnosis had two primary messages.
- I know that my saviour lives...
Gnosis spread in Alexandria when the romans brought misery and dissapointement into the near east. The end of the previous social institutions and the outcome AD 70 left a lot of people in a state where they had to find a truth.
Gnosis says: wherever you live, know that you are saved in another sphere.
It meant to look through the veils of the demiurgos.
(demi-urgos - erga --> organic portals?)
When people felt punished or lost in the world they got the message that there is another truth in another plane.

The second message is often not well attested. How come there are such differences in the world. Alexandrian gnosis does explain the way of the pneumatics. But sparse are the sources speaking about those, who did not receive the gnosis. It is however in the material of the Cs where we get some prospect. The differences are the results of different 'phases' within a cosmological 'circle'. Anything has a certain place.
So while diversity is attested in the presence equality is restored in a greater picture.

Anything has its own time.

This might be a topic to study:
The conflict between time dependant global solutions (this sounds sick) 'apokalyptizism'
versus
symbolic representations of a ethereal conflict with individual solutions

In my eyes the alexandrian gnosis shows the hope of mankind to find a sense in life within greatest stress. It is (while it is often polemical against the demiurgos) a thanksgiving to the creator on a higher plane. The gnostic has accepted evil as an expression of the cosmological constant to bring the gnostic to the light. But he sacrificed body and mind to restore the heaven to where he fled.

We have 'classes' from the earliest times which portray society which blended into other classes within a esoterical framework.

priest ----- warrior ------ slave
pneumatics --- psychics --- hylians
3D STO --- 3D STS ----- OP

Because there is in the gnosis still a strong eschatological view (not the end, but cataclysmical events like the wave) this tends to deny blending groups.
Time is/is not an illusion. The teaching of the Cs warn us from anticipation. We do not now the time. But time exists because there is a certain cosmoligical moment. In that sense the material of the Cs is apokalyptik.

COLLECTIVISM: (german Versammlungswesen). Corporations do advocate the interests of the members. One has to be within a corporation in order to be free. This was the rule during the middle ages. Modern times did not change this. You still have to be an american to be free (in america).
Collectivism says: all is done through coordinated contributions of the adherents.
But the protocols say: This is a violation of a cosmic law.
I would deduce : (german: mitgefangen, mitgehangen) you are caught with the group, you are hanged with the group.

Reading this isolated statement 'individualism is a cosmic law', one could deduce that non adherence to any group is a law. But I ask: how can you escape any membership? It is not practical. So one is tempted to live his selfish needs while being a member of various groups. Individualism in this short draft suggests a wreckless egotism. I read this isolated snipet as a sophistical 'divide and conquer' speech.
But let's go on. Does there exist a cosmic law of individuality?
In-Dividual = Not separatable
A human being has one life. It is not supposed to be an actor who may flip his belief day by day. He cannot be a member of the catholic church and of a atheistic society in the same time. He is supposed to do as he says. In the same time man is not independet from society. He is born in a family and goes to school. He is indeed not free from collective institutions. So there are two ways:
- The first one tends to missunderstand the so called 'cosmic law of individualism'. The second one knows that he is an active part of a collective which can enlighten his individual place.
- The first one will suck till the collective dies. The second one will grow and contribute.
- The first one has only an idea of 'individuality'. The second one will find his individuality through experiences within a collective. He will find a sense of his life and individuality within a greater framework.

Is there a danger in collectivism? Yes there is. When you have a bunch of individuals who only suck and the members do not bear responibility. And so we should only be members of collectives where we contribute freely and bear responsibility but are ready to leave if 'the heart of the collective' and our heart do no more dance together.

So you see the crux in the protocols. For a thoughtless reader this will be the sucker's bible.

Back to Equality

We may all be equal suckers... that's the negative essence and danger of societal programs which cannot allow for diversity. We find in the world tendencies to monopolistic organisations. The larger they grow the more immovable are the laws. There is no more dancing. The suckers become functionaries. At the end there is equality but no liberty/individuality. When conformism has prevailed above creativity then there is no more...

Fraternité

Fraternité is the unified creativity.

It is neither equality nor individuality, it is the unified creativity which gives us self experience within a greater family and orchestrates the dance of duty and freedom.

Egalité Liberté Fraternité
Duty Freedom Creativity

Each one must be present. You see that I came up with duty instead of equality.
Our swiss constitution says 'Alle Schweizer Bürger sind vor dem Gesetz gleich'.
All swiss citizens are equally under the law
The gross missunderstanding is to interpret equality as conformity of being. It is not. It rather says: All are responsible. Next in the law it is examplified how the law applies for different conditions.
Now let us aply this to the cosmic law. Imagine a law that indeed applies for all human beings. It knows all different conditions. But imagine too that this law is not a despote. It rather suggests creativity. Maybe the state of the universe reflects our omissions as creative partners.

The french revolution has commonalized a principle. But when people start ritualizing such publications they often loose creativity. The suckers become dominant and one is then inclined to follow the suckers interpretation.

Protocol No.15.6 wrote:

We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM .... They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality ....

Egalité Liberté Fraternité is then a hobby-horse of COLLECTIVISM when it becomes a totalitarian institution. The critical point is then reached, when the group is larger than a single person can overwiew. So the failure of collectivism is that it is not in accordance with human dimensions.

Yeah, I could go even further and postulate that any outer representation of this trinité is a golden calve. It is realy only meant to be an inner truth.

Now look at the golden calf and see the decay of the principal

Body ---> egalité / duty ---> the mass without a will ---> OP
Mind ---> liberté / freedom ---> those who steel the freedom of the others ---> 3D STS
Soul ---> fraternitè / creativity --> those who take refuge ---> 3D STO

Donald, You find society as an outward projection of a failed inner principle.
And with that I ask: Is the gnostic tripartite scheme a picture of the self in its failed form? What then would be a pure inner form? Is it not the Unity of Body Mind and Soul?

When the mind insults the body
When the soul says 'me alone'
When creativity takes refuge in heaven
Decay prevails on earth

This is at the heart of the catholic versus gnostic conflict. The gnostics taught the ascending soul known only to the souled pneumatics. The catholics teach the resurrection of the body, which is the unity of body, mind and soul.
The catholics became the dominant golden calf while the gnosis lost mind and body throughout history and took refuge.

Please note this is a rather spontanious draft. I allowed my thoughts to fly where they wanted to.

 

[Yossarian]

Here's "COLLECTIVISM" used in another context about the same topic from Michael Tsarion's web site: http://www.taroscopes.com/astro-theology/astrotheology2.html

A close study of pathology and of megalomania reveals the age-old conflict between mind and nature (reality). Mind may perceive reality, but mind may not be reality. The very phrase "mind over matter" suggests a power-struggle and, indeed, that force which man takes for god does seek to exert its influence over the material world and to fashion matter into its own image. This same god, the inflation of the human Ego-Ideal (Freud), does exert and wield its influence through the minds of those men it has possessed. It will exalt those who lend themselves to its desire, and it will humiliate those who resist and seek to remain rational and independent. The collectivism that pervades the religious world, together with the penchant for believing absurdities, is but an outward symptom a psychopathic temperament. Sadly, in our world, it is not the most rational and sane who rise to the top to guide and inspire us, but the most irrational and unsane.

 

[Cyre2067]

It seems to me that we've gotten off the topic of "what is an OP" and more onto "is creating a category of people as OP dangerous". So i reread alot of the earlier posts and it seems that there's some consensus so let me state what i think and maybe ya'll can correct me if i misunderstood.

OPs start off neutral, as they cross the 2D to 3D threshold. They have a limited reference frame which makes it difficult for them to "think outside the box", and can be enhanced by interactions with STOish peeps or weakened/made to emulate psychopathy by interactions with STS types. Then depending on their actions/destiny they gain STS or STO Experience(karma). After gaining enough over the course of several life times they can become souled. This is more likely to happen if they gain STO experience as STS is typically draining.

My guess is that the universe gives us a choice on multiple levels and allows us to pick STO or STS, good or evil, 1 or 0, ying or yang. The affect of this choice isn't felt by the individual until such time as they are ready to graduate to that existence, therefore most of us being not quite there yet, are still in limbo and still have the choice open for us. To make the choice we must fully understand it and that takes multiple lifetimes. We can also choose OP or souled, OPs have an "easier" 3D existence, but cannot become 4D until the next big cycle.

Most of us here are obviously questioning reality, therefore we're souled. We may have OP traits, and specific subjects may trigger OP-like behavior (cognitive dissonance), but we retain our souls and can use it for guidance if we wish. There are also chemicals put it our food/air/water along with HAARP etc that pushes souled individuals into a more OP/sleep state. Therefore souled individuals can act just like OPs if they can't resist these influences.

STS seems to offer a quick fix, power, comfort, easy living, this comes in the form of psychopathy, where they can *skip some learning by choosing it in 5D (and get rid of that pesky guilt bit). They return to 3D and are born into that 6% or remain as OPs manipulated by 4D STS and don't really mind, its easy and comfortable. STO on the other hand is a more difficult path (requires more lifetimes/experiences), but eventually you become souled and awakened to the world around you, seeing it objectively. You start noticing things other people don't, find your intuition going up a notch and have an insatiable empathy for your fellow man.

In conclusion, Psychopathy is a prerequisite to graduating to 4D STS. You can only become one if you choose it in 5D. OPs can exhibit STO or STS traits, but cannot graduate to 4D period. That's all i got, everything above "my guess" is what i thought was consensus and below is my elaborations. Comments appreciated.

 

[Nathan]

Psychopathy is a prerequisite to graduating to 4D STS. You can only become one if you choose it in 5D.

Just a couple of questions:

Is psychopathy the only way to graduate to STS? How about characteropaths? And, don't forget, the entire human race is STS and not every human is a psychopath.

Also, is choosing 4D STS only possible in 5D? I always thought choosing in 3D was also possible and just as likely.

 

[Cyre2067]

I'm just guessing mostly, i was hoping for feedback on what you all thought. This is also kinda off topic re: what is an op, but since ya asked:

As 4D STS itself follows and influences trends of behavior that are psychopathic in nature (no guilt for inflicting suffering on billions of humans over time, relishing in it, feeding off of it) i would come to the conclusion that doing so in 3D is a prerequisite to doing it in 4D. Ya gotta learn to dribble before you can play basketball. Same is true for STO, you must be empathic for all life, and give all to those who ask. Eventhough our existence is STS it think we have a choice as to which influence we wish to follow. Example: I can kill an insect found in my lab or i can take it outside and set it free.

I also think all major destiny oriented choices are made in 5D and then realized below. 5D is evidently an existence outside of time, or in Zero time, which would make it a good spot to make those decisions. This is where it gets confusing because we are currently 3D, so i can't understand the particulars - with that said since it is in Zero Time one has the same perspective there after each lifetime below, you have the knowledge and experience of all your lifetimes, thus any decision you make there affects your 3D destinies or life plans. Allowing free will and destiny to coexist.

Now can you make a choice in 3D that goes counter to your 5D decisions? My opinion is no. However being a free-will universe it may be possible. I have no way of knowing. Hope that answers yer questions.

 

[Guest]

All that speculation is well and good, and these things should be discussed. Personally, I like to look at the issues discussed in this thread in terms of here and now practicality. We are faced with choices, and it is often difficult to make those choices based on a preditermined standard of what is good and what is not. It's more likely that the right choice depends on a correct assessment of each and every particular circumstance.

Often who and what is "good" and what is "evil" is not always so clear cut (although it often is), and there are a lot of gray areas, especially when we deal with life day by day. So, as I see it, the premise that people are predisposed to attitudes and behaviours based on their psychic make-up can assist in these choices because we can avoid expending energy where it will come to no end (OP's), or actually end up harming us (psychopaths).

The distinctions proposed in this thread help provide sign-posts on the road of life to help avoid pot-holes, obstructions and other variables that could make our choice-making more difficult than it needs to be. On the other hand, when we know about OP's, ensouled and psychopaths of varied types, even though identification of particular subjects may not be a clear-cut thing, we can learn a lot about ourselves through being able to control interactions with those showing certain "symptoms", when those interactions are inevitable, and thus improve our ability to navigate through life and make the right choices.

It is always good to have a sense of the big picture. However, in terms of pure objectivity, that sense will always be to a large degree speculative (although it can be inspiring and beneficial). I believe we can benefit, therefore, from our big picture perceptions and ideas when we keep that in mind, as well as when we maintain the awareness that our view of the big picture can be subject to change at any time.

Just a few thoughts on the matter.

 

[Nathan]

Just a little tidbit to throw in:

Session 05-04-02

... Laura and I were talking earlier about thought packets and speech analysis. Is trying to analyze the speech pattern of psychopaths vs. non-psychopaths something that would prove fruitful?
A: It can be done. But there are easier ways.
Q: (L) What easier ways?
A: Observation coupled with instinct.

 

[ark]

Just a little tidbit to throw in:

Session 05-04-02

... Laura and I were talking earlier about thought packets and speech analysis. Is trying to analyze the speech pattern of psychopaths vs. non-psychopaths something that would prove fruitful?
A: It can be done. But there are easier ways.
Q: (L) What easier ways?
A: Observation coupled with instinct.

It is, I think, much as with the scientific discoveries. Many of the great scientific discoveries have been made with exactly the same method: Observation coupled with instinct. And yet only few were able to discover something new and valuable. There is no "manual" for making a scientific discovery. The ability to observe what is important is not evenly distributed among people. Also the right kind of an instinct is not evenly distributed among people. To have knowledge certainly helps and is important. There are manuals about how to get "knowledge". But how to develope the ability to observe, to see what others neglect, how to develope the right kind of an instinct - these are more tricky. Much of the "know how" can not be communicated through the written word, or even with a spoken word. Some essential part is often inborn, some other part often goes by "osmosis" from those who have these abilities already developed.

 

[Ruth]

I suppose the '64 dollar' question is.... Are we all OPs until we chose not to be, or are there two distinct catagories (something akin to having two sexes in the one species as an illustration. i.e. a person can be either one or the other). And if you believe the second one, then an OP cannot 'become' a non-OP within the one lifetime anymore than any of us can change our sex at will.

This seems to be me to be the two perspectives that provoke most interest in people.

 

[Guest]

Are we all OPs until we chose not to be, or are there two distinct catagories (something akin to having two sexes in the one species as an illustration. i.e. a person can be either one or the other).

Answer: Yes, we are all OP's until we choose not to be, at least phenomenally. And yes, there are two distinct categories, but the gender analogy is too rigid, in my view. There is something one might want to consider here:
The activation of OP to Individual is like the transformation from caterpillar to butterfly. This transformation is genetically based.

In my opinion ALL caterpillars/OPs can eventually become butterflies, but there seem to be two groups here and the difference is that each group is triggered into transformation by different conditions. This means the soul make-up is different in these two groups. One group transforms under the acutely turbulent conditions of this world and despite society's conditioned rigidity. The other group (the OP's proper, as it were) cannot transform under these conditions. Their transformation is far more involved in that sense, and requires a different playing field.

I belief the transformation of the first group alters the playing field and sets up the conditions for the second group to undergo the process of individuation. So although one might posit differences in soul structure the question is not IF one or another group individuates by when, how and under what conditions.

That is why OP's, in my view, resist transformative (abstract esoteric) thinking. Because it stresses their make-up, which is not adapted to the digestion of such thinking for transformative purposes. At best they will downscale it so it is stripped of the abstract esoteric stressor. So I think this perspective in a way reconciles these two perspectives.

 

[Ruth]

Answer: Yes, we are all OP's until we choose not to be, at least phenomenally. And yes, there are two distinct categories, but the gender analogy is too rigid, in my view. There is something one might want to consider here:
The activation of OP to Individual is like the transformation from caterpillar to butterfly. This transformation is genetically based.

I see your analogy as more reflective of a transition between 3d to 4d and something that has the ability to occur in one cycle. This is of far greater importance/significance than the very subtle and sometimes completely undiscernable differences between an OP and a non-OP in 3d (imo). The biological/spiritual/genetic differences between these two types of human in 3d must pale into insignificance unless, of course, there is a VERY big connection theory/idea between OPs and non-OPs. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I think the reason why some people chose the idea that we are "all OPs until we chose not to be" is based on the fact we are STS and have STS thinking and is not necessarily objective or accurate. THIS is what makes OPs a problem (the fact that we are STS), not the fact that they are OPs.

In my opinion ALL caterpillars/OPs can eventually become butterflies, but there seem to be two groups here and the difference is that each group is triggered into transformation by different conditions. This means the soul make-up is different in these two groups. One group transforms under the acutely turbulent conditions of this world and despite society's conditioned rigidity. The other group (the OP's proper, as it were) cannot transform under these conditions. Their transformation is far more involved in that sense, and requires a different playing field.

Again, it seems to me that you are talking about two separate things (and attempting to connect them). This degree of connectedness, or similarity may not be necessary, these two things may actually be two separate things, example: 3d transition to 4d and OP transition to non OP. Both appear to be difficult, but dissimilar accept in their degree of difficulty.

I belief the transformation of the first group alters the playing field and sets up the conditions for the second group to undergo the process of individuation. So although one might posit differences in soul structure the question is not IF one or another group individuates by when, how and under what conditions.

What I think you mean is our ability to become STO will level the playing field and make it more easy for an OP to become a non-OP, like giving them the choice or maybe even the awareness necessary for them to make a decision.

That is why OP's, in my view, resist transformative (abstract esoteric) thinking. Because it stresses their make-up, which is not adapted to the digestion of such thinking for transformative purposes. At best they will downscale it so it is stripped of the abstract esoteric stressor. So I think this perspective in a way reconciles these two perspectives.

Abstract thinking can be mechanincal and should therefore within their ability (anybody's ability). What true OPs are missing out on are their 3 upper chakras. The only 'transformation' I think people are resisting is the one to STO. It is my belief that people have substituted the truth that we are all STS with the idea that we must now be all OPs. Why would they do that.... and what if it wasn't true? Would they want to know or would they want to engage in more wishful thinking in order to avoid the transformation to STO, which is probably all important.

 

[Nathan]

Answer: Yes, we are all OP's until we choose not to be, at least phenomenally. And yes, there are two distinct categories, but the gender analogy is too rigid, in my view. There is something one might want to consider here:
The activation of OP to Individual is like the transformation from caterpillar to butterfly. This transformation is genetically based.

Nice analogy :) "The transformation is genetically based", which makes sense when you consider "genetics marry with soul if present". We are limited by our genetics to a certain degree.

As I understand EsoQuest's analogy, the first group is ready to build the cocoon - to begin the transformation into a butterfly, whereas those of the second group are not yet ready.

I think the reason why some people chose the idea that we are "all OPs until we chose not to be" is based on the fact we are STS and have STS thinking and is not necessarily objective or accurate. THIS is what makes OPs a problem (the fact that we are STS), not the fact that they are OPs.

I'm not quite sure I understand what is being said here. How does STS thinking result in the idea that "we are all OPs until we choose not to be"? EsoQuest did use the word "phenomenally", so this statement should not be taken in a literal sense. And in my opinion, the problem lies less with the fact that we are STS, but more with the fact that OPs have become such handy portals of attack for use by 4D STS, which makes it even harder for those who are trying to "build the cocoon", so to speak.

Again, it seems to me that you are talking about two separate things (and attempting to connect them).

I may have missed the boat here, but what are these two separate things?

Abstract thinking can be mechanincal and should therefore within their ability (anybody's ability). What true OPs are missing out on are their 3 upper chakras.

This is precisely why I suspect OPs are incapable of abstract thinking. In my experience, abstract thinking is clearly not within everyone's ability.

The only 'transformation' I think people are resisting is the one to STO

Well, we're resisting STS aren't we? That would explain why many of us are participating in this forum. As the human race is essentially STS, most people don't need to resist STO, in fact I don't think any effort at all is necessary, because STO is scarce in our 3D reality, frankly there isn't much to resist! Although I'm sure Ruth's statement (above) will ring true when people are given the choice between STS and STO, but at this point the choice of STO/STS isn't given. We have to make the choice ourselves.

It is my belief that people have substituted the truth that we are all STS with the idea that we must now be all OPs. Why would they do that.... and what if it wasn't true? Would they want to know or would they want to engage in more wishful thinking in order to avoid the transformation to STO, which is probably all important.

I hope no one is substituting this because they are clearly not the same. I see OP/non-OP as different checkpoints along a road, whereas STS and STO are different lanes. Which lane you choose is your choice, OP or not. Having said that, everyone here on 3D is crammed in the STS lane! :P

 

[Laura]

It seems to me that we've gotten off the topic of "what is an OP" and more onto "is creating a category of people as OP dangerous".

That happens ;)

So i reread alot of the earlier posts and it seems that there's some consensus so let me state what i think and maybe ya'll can correct me if i misunderstood.

OPs start off neutral, as they cross the 2D to 3D threshold.

Not exactly. It is not that they "cross," but rather that they are a "bridge." The C's said:

They were originally part of the bridge between 2nd density and 3rd density. Review transcripts on the subject of short wave cycles and long wave cycles.

So, in order to understand this, you apparently have to have an understanding of the short wave cycles and long wave cycles. Here is that excerpt:

Electromagnetic energy, electromagnetism, is the life force that exists within all that evolves through long wave or short wave cycles. ...

Q: (L) Are human beings entrapped in physical matter?

A: By choice.

Q: (L) Why did they make this choice?

A: To experience physical sensations. It was a group mind
decision.

Q: (L) Who was in charge of the group?

A: The group.

Q: (L) Does the interaction between the spirit/soul and the
body physical produce some by-product that is desirable to
other beings?

A: Well, all things have desirable consequences as well as
undesirable consequences, but it must also be mentioned
here that everything that exists in all realms of the
universe can experience existence in one of only two ways.
That would be defined as a long wave cycle and a short
wave cycle.

Going back to your previous question about
why humans are "entrapped" in physical existence, which,
of course, is voluntary and chosen, this was due to the
desire to change from the long wave cycle experience of
completely what you would call ethereal or spiritual
existence, to the short wave cycle of what you call
physical existence. The difference is that a long wave
cycle involves only very gradual change in evolution in a
cyclical manner. Whereas a short wave cycle involves a
duality. And this is the case with souls in physical
bodies as is experienced on this earth plane because the
soul experiences an ethereal state for half the cycle and
a physical state for the other half of the cycle. While
these halves are not measured in time the way you measure
time, the totality of experience is equal in each half.
The necessity to form the short wave cycle was brought
about through nature through the natural bounds of the
universe when the group mind of souls chose to experience
physicality as opposed to a completely ethereal existence.

Q: (L) Does this interaction produce a by-product?

A: It produces equal by-products of a positive and negative
nature.

Q: (L) And what are these by-products?

A: Which one first?

Q: (L) Positive.

A: Positive by-product is an increase in relative energy
which speeds up the learning process of the soul and all
of it's one dimensional and two dimensional interactive
partners. In other words, flora and fauna, minerals, etc.
All experience growth and movement towards reunion at a
faster rate on the cycle through this short wave cycle
physical/ethereal transfer.

Of a negative nature, it
also produces many negative experiences for these very
same entities which otherwise would not exist because
being of a first level and second level nature, flora and
fauna would ordinarily experience a long term or long wave
cycle on the physical plane as opposed to a short wave
cycle physical and ethereal, as they do now because of
their interaction with the human species in its short wave
ethereal/physical cycle.

So it seems that Organic Portals were part of the "flora and fauna" that were originally supposed to experience a long wave cycle on the physical plane of existence. That goes with our observations about "soul pools." That is, the animating force of an Organic Portal is a fragment of a soul pool that, when the OP body dies, returns to the pool and merges. It may, due to suffering or other intense interactions, achieve some degree of "differentiation, more or less like the thin membrane of a one celled organism, though I am speaking in energetic terms here and not physical.

They have a limited reference frame which makes it difficult for them to "think outside the box", and can be enhanced by interactions with STOish peeps

Right. The same as with members of the animal kingdome, though of course, the OP has a much more complex brain to work with which includes a powerful emulator, so to say.

or weakened/made to emulate psychopathy by interactions with STS types.

Here's another place where you fell off the track... A psychopath is a "defective OP," that is, a being animated by soul pool fragment energy, but lacking certain capacities which may be strictly a genetic defect (like aphasia or color blindness) or may be a result of being animated by soul pool fragment energy from the "cold blooded" soul pool selection.

In short, an OP is born, not made. The psychopath, (the ordinary kind), is a defective OP. Such is also born, not made. And so, they are not weakened or made to emulate anything. They are what they are.

Then depending on their actions/destiny they gain STS or STO Experience(karma). After gaining enough over the course of several life times they can become souled. This is more likely to happen if they gain STO experience as STS is typically draining.

It seems that the energy of creation progresses through the primal matter, to mineral, to vegetative and animal states, that animals can graduate to third density and become human, just as humans can graduate to 4th density. But, I suspect that when an animal "graduates" to 3rd density, it starts of as an OP. It still has a very long way to go. And as the C's say above, this can be accelerated by the short wave cycle, or the interaction with souled beings of the STS and STO nature. So, for a very long time such a being would not have any "karma," so to say. It would be merely a process of going from an undifferentiated energy to that which is fuzzily differentiated and still has strong ties to the soul pool group. So, this isn't even a "several lifetimes" thing, it could be several cycles, a cycle being 309,000 years (more or less) and many, many, thousands of lifetimes.

My guess is that the universe gives us a choice on multiple levels and allows us to pick STO or STS, good or evil, 1 or 0, ying or yang.

I don't think it is a question of "picking," as much as just the "nature of the thing" from it's coming into being. Infinite Potential to BE includes - by definition of the word "infinite" - the potential to not be. And so, Infinite Potential "splits" into Thought Centers of Creation and Thought Centers of non-being. It can be said that Infinite Potential is fundamentally Binary - on or off - to be or not to be. That is the first "division."

Since absolute non-being is an impossible paradox in terms of the Creative source of Infinite Potential to BE, the half of the consciousness of Infinite Potential that constitute the IDEAS of non-being - for every idea of manifestation, there is a corresponding idea for that item of creation to NOT manifest - "falls asleep" for lack of a better term. Its "self observation" is predicated upon consciousness that can only "mimic" death.

Consciousness that mimics death then "falls" and becomes Primal Matter.

What this means is that the "self observing self" at the level of the Master of the Universe is constituted of this initial division between Being and Non-being which is, again, only the initial division - the on/off, the yes/no - of creation. You could picture this as an open eye observing a closed eye. It has been represented for millennia in the yin-yang symbol, which, even on the black half that represents "sleeping consciousness that is matter," you can see the small white dot of "being" that represents to us that absolute non-existence is not possible. There is only "relative" non-existence.

These "thoughts of being and non-being" interact with one another - the observer and the observed - like a viewer looking into a mirror. Creation manifests between the viewer and the mirror. It is at once real - because it consists of matter informed by consciousness - and unreal because it is ultimately composed of only consciousness acting on consciousness.

Thus, the first Divine Command is BE! And that includes Being and Non-being instantaneously. Therefore, the second law is "follow Being or Non-being according to your inherent nature." All creation is a result of the engendering command. So, in this respect, there is no Evil. But the second, prescriptive law determines to which "Face of God" one will return: Life or Death.

The affect of this choice isn't felt by the individual until such time as they are ready to graduate to that existence, therefore most of us being not quite there yet, are still in limbo and still have the choice open for us. To make the choice we must fully understand it and that takes multiple lifetimes. We can also choose OP or souled, OPs have an "easier" 3D existence, but cannot become 4D until the next big cycle.

Another falling off the track here. It doesn't seem that one can "choose" to be OP or souled. One either is or isn't. I believe we more or less established that EFFECTIVELY, all are OPs until they choose not to act that way, but that says nothing about the essential nature. That is to say that souled beings UTILIZE Organic Portal beings for their incarnational activities.

Q: (L) How did mankind come to be here?

A: Combination of factors. Numerous souls desired physical
existence then was altered by three forces including
principally Lizards through Grays, Nephalim and Orion
union.

Q: (L) You said numerous souls desired physical existence.
When the numerous souls did this, how did physical existence
come to be?

A: First was apelike.

Q: (L) And then what happened? Did these apelike being just
pop into the air? What did the souls do with these
apelike beings?

A: Souls altered them by transfer.

Q: (L) Transfer of what?

A: Souls into seeded bodies. Orion Union was first into
Neanderthal.

Q: (L) The Orion souls came into Neanderthal bodies?

A: No. Put humans there for incubation process.

Q: (L) Were altered ape embryos put back into ape females for
gestation?

A: No. Souls only.

Q: (L) They put the souls into the ape bodies?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Did the soul's presence in the ape body cause its
genetics and DNA to change?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) They entered into living creatures on this planet to
experience 3 d reality and by entering in caused mutation?

A: Yes. Then were altered by Orion Union first. They resemble
you.

So here you have the difference between the long wave cycle and the short wave cycle. Left alone, OPs - as bridges between densities - would progress at a very slow rate. But adding souls accelerates things...

And then, there is this:

Q: (L) So, you are saying that the original creators or
genetic engineers were Orions?

A: Close. The original engineers but not inhabitants.

Q: (L) Where did the souls come from that entered into the
bodies on the planet earth? Were they in bodies on other
planets before they came here?

A: Not this group.

Q: (L) Were they just floating around in the universe
somewhere?

A: In union with the One. Have you heard the
Super ancient legend of Lucifer, the Fallen Angel?

Q: (L) Who is Lucifer?

A: You. The human race.

Q: (L) Are the souls of individual humans the parts of a
larger soul?

A: Yes. Close. The One. All who have fallen must learn "the
hard way."

Q: (L) Are you saying that the act of wanting to experience
physical reality is the act of falling?

A: You are members of a fragmented soul unit.

Q: (L) What is it about wanting to be physical is a "fall"?

A: Pleasure for the self.

But notice that here we are talking about "falling" into matter as opposed to "ascending" through matter as the OP apparently does.

The activities of this "fragmented soul unit" that came directly from "The One" at 7th density has been described in the New Testament as follows:

A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold.

Most of us here are obviously questioning reality, therefore we're souled. We may have OP traits, and specific subjects may trigger OP-like behavior (cognitive dissonance), but we retain our souls and can use it for guidance if we wish. There are also chemicals put it our food/air/water along with HAARP etc that pushes souled individuals into a more OP/sleep state. Therefore souled individuals can act just like OPs if they can't resist these influences.

This seems to be a reasonable short run-down.

STS seems to offer a quick fix, power, comfort, easy living, this comes in the form of psychopathy, where they can *skip some learning by choosing it in 5D (and get rid of that pesky guilt bit). They return to 3D and are born into that 6% or remain as OPs manipulated by 4D STS and don't really mind, its easy and comfortable.

Fell off the track again here due to having fallen off the track on the subject of OPs/Psychopaths earlier.

STO on the other hand is a more difficult path (requires more lifetimes/experiences), but eventually you become souled and awakened to the world around you, seeing it objectively. You start noticing things other people don't, find your intuition going up a notch and have an insatiable empathy for your fellow man.

Actually, souled individuals may require many fewer lifetimes than OP types as described above: long cycle vs. short cycle. I do find your term "insatiable empathy" to be quite alarming.

In conclusion, Psychopathy is a prerequisite to graduating to 4D STS.

No, not in the general terms we have been discussing it. But we have also looked at a most mysterious creature, the so-called "Essential psychopath," as Lobaczewski calls him, speculating that this may be a souled being that has consciously chosen STS and thus has opened the self to "perfect possession."

Here are a couple of excerpts on the subject of Hitler that may give an indication:

Q: (L) Was Adolf Hitler possessed by demons or evil spirits?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Was Adolf Hitler under the control of the negatively oriented aliens?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Where is Adolf Hitler now?

A: Sleeping.

Q: (L) How long will he sleep?

A: Indefinite.

Q: (L) Will Adolf Hitler return to incarnation at some point in the future?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Can you predict what kind of life he will lead in his future incarnation?

A: No.
...
Q: (L) What influence was Adolf Hitler under when he
undertook to do the things he did. Who was guiding him?

A: Lizards. Indirectly.

Q: (L) What connection did they use to influence him?

A: Projected beings of human type, inspired forms of great
Aryan spirits.
...
Q: (L) Now you say there are 36 million Nephilim heading this
way, are they 4th density beings?

A: No. They live in 4 d but are 3 d. They are as physical as
you. Behave like gestapo. Gestapo was inspired by
Nephilim through Lizard beings' influence over Hitler.
It was a practice run.
...
Q: (L) Why was Hitler so determined, beyond all reason, even
to his own self-destruction, to annihilate the Jews?

A: Many reasons and very complex. But, remember, while still
a child, Hitler made a conscious choice to align himself
with the "forces of darkness," in order to fulfill his
desires for conquest and to unite the Germanic peoples.
Henceforth, he was totally controlled, mind, body, and
soul, by STS forces.

Psychopathy is a prerequisite to graduating to 4D STS. You can only become one if you choose it in 5D.

No and yes: see all of the above. Ordinary Psychopathy is genetic. It is a "defective OP" or an OP connected to reptilian soul pools. But then we have the speculated Essential Psychopath such as Hitler above. It seems that the Essential Psychopath, as a "souled" being is necessary because it has the possibility of subliminal connection to the souls of other normal humans not to mention the soul quality that is emulated by OPs, and which they seek with some kind of "heat seeking radar."

OPs can exhibit STO or STS traits, but cannot graduate to 4D period.

Right. And because most ordinary psychopaths are just OPs that lack something, they also cannot graduate to 4 D.

This is not a simple subject by any stretch of the imagination and we have to keep in mind that we are working with a hypothesis... and testing it to see if it explains the phenomena we observe and experience.