Laura said:
I'm not sure at all that this is true. I am pretty positive that the essential psychopath is NEVER, EVER tormented. To be "tormented," you have to have some kind of feelings, emotions.
Somehow, I do not feel we are really in disagreement here. It seems that "torment" for a healthy individual is different than "torment" for the psychopath. Certainly, a psychopath becomes seriously disturbed when "scratched", and I do not think the "tantrum" is an act. When I was in the military (for a short time thankfully), I came to experience the "how to make a psychopath" program up close and personal.
I could see in myself the push by that program to create an inner discontiuity and push my sense of self to the other side of an abyss (the best way I can describe it). The military seemed to be trying to seed within me a source of insane rage that even today I do not associate with myself. It was like an attempt to condition me not to be "human". Indeed, you cannot be a "soldier" if you empathize with the "enemy", and the programmers have to set it up so the "enemy" is whoever they say it is.
The last vestige of the sense of the sancitity of self-sovereignty left me during this period, where I had to conclude that we all have our limits. I did not cross those limits, and had to endure a lot of derision, but I got a clear view of them and what lay beyond. For example, I realize many soldiers forced to kill are in torment grasping to the last vestige of their souls on one end and trying to "follow orders" for whatever reason on the other.
This is not the same torment as that of the psychopath, OP or not. Example: Greece was poor up until about three decades ago. There were class differences and a lot of resentment. Then the EU came along and created artificial prosperity. The ones below became the ones above (while the ones at the top were secure in their perches). One would expect that those who were formerly poor would be happy in their new found middle and upper middle class state.
But no...it was all of the sudden about on-upmanship and who was better then everyone. A comfortable life in a Mediterranian country was not good enough. It was all about domination for too many people. The same people marching in the streets for egalite and fraternite, from one day to the next turned into ruthless conservatives, like children playing musical chairs and refusing to budge once grabbing a seat.
What is funny is that when these same people immigrate to the US, they work relentlessly hard to one day return to the old country and show everyone what they have become. And while in the US they kiss the ground they walk upon and complain not one bit! The motive is the assertion of "I am better than you". If they cannot fulfill this urge they are in turmoil.
I would thing an OP's primary motive is security and stability, with a few frills and thrills thrown in of course. The psychopaths motive seems to be ME uber alles, while a healthy person is interested in self betterment because it makes most sense to them.
Anyway, in this part of the world the OP portion of the population as a rule considers compassion equivalent to stupidity. "Officially" ideals about god and ancestors and sacred custom are waved around like so many flags at a parade. In any private conversation, however, the words compassionate and stupid are often interchangeable in the vernacular.
What I was trying to convey is that psychopaths are not cold fish, and the true face of the psychopath is often a rictus of rage. I do believe they are without feeling, in the sense of emotional consciousness. There was an interesting discovery in neurology in recent years, regarding a set of neurons in the prefrontal cortex of the brain called "mirror neurons". It is said that these allow a person to experience what it is like to be in another's position.
Here is an interesting link on the subject:
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=mirror%20neurons
As for Durand, I went through his site, and it was obvious to me he saw your direction as moving on his turf, and reacted like an agitated territorial animal, since his forum is empty and yours is full.
The ones without turmoil, IMO are the psychopaths or latent psychopaths who are well-adapted to their condition. To me that just means they haven't encountered their "scratch" limit yet. It does seem that they are dissociated from their emotions, but I have seen many a psychopath act against their well-layed out plans when scratched the wrong way. I believe they also do feel congnitive dissonance, but again perhaps we need to expand the terminology here. OP cognitive dissonance apparently occurs when their reality supports are threatened. Psychopaths, on the other hand, need to dominate and crush emotions (or rather true feeling), or they loose that quality of poise that makes them so seductive to the unsuspecting.
In a psychic sense, the sensitive among us have certainly felt the malignant energy of the unleashed psychopath, and its chaotic/entropic nature.
OP's, on the other hand, may be intelligent, but they utilize intelligence to organize and justify their deeper motives, and perhaps form a social structure that can maintain those motives fulfilled even in the context of social alliances (community), social compromizes (rules and law), a universal support (religion, "philosophy" and "science"), with constant ritualistic affirmations of the three former structures. And in my experience they really believe this is healthy normality.
Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there is no historically recorded example of a society based on individualized soul principles that could serve as an example for modern times (I do not think Cathar society would work out in that fashion). If there was, it was most likely short-lived. Adamics seem to be able to adapt to OP society, but I do not think the reverse is true (evident with what happened to early Christianity).
My core point in all of this is that I agree that there is obviously mature and immature empathy (mature being coherent with reality), and we should not confuse empathy with wishful thinking.
On the other hand, we should not forget that we are all born and raised in OP traditions, and have been conditioned to a large extent by the OP way, which seems to define "official normality" in society. As such we are still struggling to extricate ourselves from that bias without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
I think is important is that we recognize the turmoil of ensouled individuals, in that being raised in the OP way is traumatic to their very sense of identity. The crossing not only from psychopathy to health, but from OP to "ensouled" modes of existence is certainly a great challenge.