Organic Portals: Human variation

[Guest]

Wow! There's a lot of complexity in this thread.

Now, the distinction Mouravieff has made is that this second type DOES have the emotional center which the psychopathic type does not have. And that means that such a type is quite different - and maybe even scarier - than the garden variety psychopath.

In the workplace, and formerly in school, I recognized the cold psychopath and the OP. However, in esoteric exploratitons with others (and in my own extended family environment) the above type as well as the Chimeric type were the predominant contacts, and where I did sense emotion.

These types started popping up left and right through the new age movement, and out of the psychedelic drug culture. The following story is not exaggerated. About fifteen years ago, a friend of mine and myself would have meditation sessions with others. Most of these started off as normal college buddies and degenerated into the above type.

There were usually two categories, the "earthly" type (falling into traditional types of black magic, dark shamanism etc) and the "cosmic" type (channeling ET's and strange cosmic entities). Both these types had a Lovecraftian flavour to them expressing a common theme of "gates" opening and some kind of takeover.

At some point my friend and I held a session with a character named "Alan". My friend was into three dimensional sound and had set up a system, where he would play a slow rhythm on the stereo, since he was more shamanically oriented. I would get into a state by focusing on my sense of "I", and then removing all concepts so that what was left was a sense of presence.

Alan (who in everyday life was a nice guy loved by all as it were), get up holding a particular crystal, which he never let go, and started doing a strange Tai Chi type of dance. All three of us would get impressions and share them in this meditative state, which connected us to deeper layers of our individual predispositions.

At some point we got into a common visionary experience that we were describing to each other in a spontaneous dialogue, regarding a prehistoric tribe where Alan was born as a kind of genius who discovered and promoted new weaponry to send that tribe to attack others and start waves of conquest. From there (as my friend and I were observers at this point), Alan took the temporal thread through the ages, always appearing as some genius pushing societies into warfare through the promise of power with new weaponry.

In this meditative state you can basically feel someone's energy field pretty strongly, and my friend and I were feeling that Alan was trying to pressure us into affirming his "superiority", so we anchored ourselves (without really talking about it, and through a kind of synchronistic feeling sense) and stood our ground.

Now Alan had told us that in a previous meditation he had a vision of a vast space full of pillars, and on these pillars were faces of people. He tried to beat around the bush about why he was doing this, but essentially he said he could reach out and put his hand over a face and control the whole pillar. He only had this experience when meditating with my friend and myself, and kept trying to guide the meditation back to this experience. He also told us he extends his third eye like a snake and tries to enter the heads of other people (which is partly what we were feeling in this session).

Anyway, my friend who was shamanically oriented mentioned about the original prehistoric persona and started telling a story of incarnations of myself and him thwarting the weapon-maker right at the onset. Alan got up agitated and started doing his strange Tai Chi movements which became all the more insect-like along with the strange angles to which he was rotating his head.

In the dim lights both of us saw Alan turn into a praying mantis. At the time of these sessions the only thing we took in chemical terms was 5mg melatonin each (interestingly, you mention it in some threads). When this "transformation" happened he started talking with the same voice, but it was modulated really strangely, like a kind of ventriloquism that made it gravelly and seem to come from outside of his head.

He said something about interfering, and then he looked at me and said: "who are you?", "we do not recognize your presence in the plan", and other such vagueness, while he was speaking in the first person plural.

So I just told him that whatever he thought he was doing it was over. He looked at me and groaned (still with a faint praying mantis outline in the dimness), and at that moment a really bright light shone in the room and sirens started going off. This apparently broke the session and we turned on the lights in the room and looked outside. It turns out the police were making somekind of raid accross the street and shining lights into the windows of surrounding apatments (why I do not know), but the "coincidence" was surely strange.

Alan was just one case of individuals (usually in their 20's) who were triggered in the 1990's into these kinds of identity manifestations. All of them had this quality of "feeding" on others, seeming normal in their day to day lives and having an anit-christ complex related to these arthropod and invertebrate life-form templates on some kind of archtypal scale.

The spectrum of psycho-strangeness is certainly complex! I did not see the podcasts, but I read a few things about them, and it certainly sounds similar.

I definitely grok what you're saying overall, and there is much there to work with, it's just that the flow of thought seemed to 'snag' for me at this evolutionary comment.

I was referring to the similarity certain "demonic" manifestations as well as extraterrestial ones have with the more primitive forms of 2D. It seems they resonate with the DNA pools of these primitive species as they superimpose on the human matrix. I am suggesting that if you take the tree of classic evolution such a presence resonant with a primal gene pool would be incompatible with the consciousness of a gene pool higher up the tree, like a square peg trying to be forced in a round hole.

If the presences resonant with the more primal gene pools are 4D STS, they may be like the "higher selves" or direct evolutionary future selves (without the development and change of terrestrial evolution) of the more primitive forms. Kind of like the "spirit" of the predatory insect, leech, scorpion or what have you trying to dominate life in 3D.

If we think "I am going to concentrate on the positive so that the future will be better, the subconscious will read: "the NOW is terrible" and the subconscious will help that person to create situations that fulfill that reality. Because, of course, when you say "I must focus on the positive," what you are telling your subconscious (which is also observing) is that the present sucks.

And this assertion that the present sucks is just what many "positive thinkers" claim is just what they have overcome. I guess another way of saying the above is that what the subconscious is getting from this attitude is that its very nature is being rejected/denied. Such extended denial leads to inner fragmentation and eventual loss of the ability to participate in what is going on around you.

What strikes me about Mel is that being positive and believing she creates her own reality, she should feel secure in that (at least in principle). Instead, she is threatened by the beliefs of others. In other words she tends to act like a fundamentalist who is driven to make others believe as they do. In her case she actually believes that we cannot have a good world unless we all fly to Care Bear heaven with fluffy pillows and pastel pajamas. There is a difference between addressing an issue head on, and reinforcing it through fatalism and denial. In asserting Laura as a fatalist, she actually reveals that she (Mel) is the perpetrator of denial.

Q: (L) Okay, the ones in the quorum are those who are focused on service to others and they, in their pathway of service to others begin to understand that some service to self is service to others.
A: Close.
Q: (L) And the whole idea is to blend both pathways no matter which direction you come to it from?
A: Service to others provides the perfect balance of those two realities; service to self is the diametrical opposite closing the grand cycle in perfect balance.
Q: (L) So it is necessary to have a pathway of service to self in order for the pathway of service to others to exist?
A: Yes.

The way I understand this is that absolute service to others would end up negating the self, that STO supplies the balance in the path, but it needs STS to define it. Another way of saying this is that learning to give is also dependent on learning to receive. Ultimately, STO and STS grow into each other like yang and yin in the Tai Chi symbol of Taoism. STS provides an extreme and polarized example for learning to recieve because its polarization turns it into "learning to take".

It is like a circle where life flows, and a pump to keep the flow going. When the pump is at the STO end, life flows and all selves are serviced, including the personal self. When the pump is at STS the flow stops because, as Quantum-Reality mentioned, the principle of Unity or rather Continuity (as far as differentiated selves are concerned) is not preserved. STS, on the other hand, rather promotes discontinuity, and has even distorted the understanding of STO in many people (especially OP's who cannot even relate to the concept except in very limited terms) into self denial and often martyrdom. It is also true that psychopaths of all types are driven to distort one's conception of STO, making one feel guilty for not rejecting Grace and falling into abject suffering to prove "goodness".

Balanced STO affirms continuity so that one can receive Grace and be "blessed". The one thing individualized psychopaths seem to have in common is the promotion of selfishness as an esoteric ideal, claiming they are simply more sincere than STO "hypocrites". This rationalization is easily accepted by the OP, especially one under STS-induced psychic stresses. The OP, in my view, is another breed altogether and can only be confused with STO/STS distinctions. The phrase "throwing pearls before swine", comes to mind here.

I remember the book and movies of H G Well's "The Island of Dr. Moreau", where animals were engineered toward humanity, and the good doctor tried to force civilization, religion and laws upon them, whereupon it all backfired and the mutants reverted to an animal state. OP's are not animals, of course, but to try to pump them full of higher truths and the deeper meanings of the relationship between STS and STO is futile and leads to degeneration into STS imbalance.

OP's need their structured societies and rituals, but when these are "polluted" with attempts to imbibe meanings with which they are not compatible disaster always results. Much of this is instigated by STS puppets who are individualized, and act as primary agents of psychopathic infection, which OP's cannot resist.

Once again, it seems karmic responsibility falls on those with individualized souls whether allied with STS or STO. I wonder how rare individualized STS psychopaths are, or if they are simply much more clever at concealing themselves than the OP versions.

A 'souled' human is sts hence they live in a parasitic environment. We (a presumption that I/we am part of this group) are programmed to react emotionally for a reason. This is to provide usually negative energy in the form of emotions for the 'next higher ups'. These emotions are not usually expressed as 'need' as an OP would experience, but as pain, anguish etc. This is food for the Lizzies.

It is true that the energies of OP's do not seem to feed 4D STS as much as ensouled energies do, or rather 4D STS gets more of a "rush" from an individualized soul than from a diffuse soul pool. This may also be because 4D STS seeks not just to ground into 3D, but to direct a 3D transition of Adamics into its singular way of things (straight into the mouth of the beast, as it were).

Those who I perceived to be more individualized versions of STS extremism indeed seemed to view themselves as "channels", priests/priestesses and/or avatars of some kind of 4D STS influence.

And she will try and 'help' me by trying to make me more like an OP (they always question individuality like its some sort of disease, simply because they don't understand it. Individuality is the opposite of herding instrinct and is completely incomprehensible to them).

Individuality is another concept that is over the heads of OP's, and has done more harm than good to them. It starts out as an ideal and usually degenderates to some form of selfishness, followed by reactions to STS provoked damage that lead to denial of self and martyrdom (usually the martyrs are the guiltridden ensouled who did not realize that their version of individuality is different than the OP version).

And it is consistent with my observations that OP's try to convert Adamics to their ways, presumably "for their own good", but really because they the ensouled individuality is alien and abnormal to them.

I guess there may be different types of OP's (depending on the size and genetic association of the corresponding soul pool), just as Adamics are unique individuals. Perhaps then the spectrum or Bell curve is not continuous at all at the OP level, with the widest gap between OP's and Adamics at the peak of the Gaussian. The Adamic portion of the graph would seem continuous because the individual "points" have a continuous distribution, which each point at its unique position.

I am beginning to believe that at least for starters we would need a graph for the healthy OP/Adamic distribution, and another graph for psychopathological effects, since all aspects of the healthy graph would have their own psychopathological potential properties.

 

[Guest]

And there is the consideration that we need to learn to tell the difference between OP's and those who are individualized, but struggling with it. My parents are both ensouled, but their parents are (except for my paternal grandfather) OP's. They grew up in an OP environment and their whole basis for acceptence by their parents rested on conforming as their parents (siblings and other relatives) wanted them to conform. I realized they are ensouled but constantly trying to affirm the OP way, the way of tradition and other OP values. Because of this they were really conflicted about me (I do not consider myself an OP).

They told me that they also feel compassion, but you cannot survive in this society with that attitude. Even so, trying to live the OP way took its toll on them. On the other hand, they were comfortable with my brother who is OP, while he was never comfortable with them. It's easy to confuse an OP with an ensouled person in inner conflict.

Another thing:

Perhaps we can understand 4D STS behaviour if we compare it to what would happen on this planet if all of the sudden humanity discovered that another species was right on the verge of human-like sentience and intelligence. I would gather that humanity would harvest and experiment upon members of the species, and would probably make slaves out of them if not outright trophies.

 

[Mike]

In the dim lights both of us saw Alan turn into a praying mantis. At the time of these sessions the only thing we took in chemical terms was 5mg melatonin each (interestingly, you mention it in some threads). When this "transformation" happened he started talking with the same voice, but it was modulated really strangely, like a kind of ventriloquism that made it gravelly and seem to come from outside of his head.

He said something about interfering, and then he looked at me and said: "who are you?", "we do not recognize your presence in the plan", and other such vagueness, while he was speaking in the first person plural.

So I just told him that whatever he thought he was doing it was over. He looked at me and groaned (still with a faint praying mantis outline in the dimness), and at that moment a really bright light shone in the room and sirens started going off. This apparently broke the session and we turned on the lights in the room and looked outside. It turns out the police were making somekind of raid accross the street and shining lights into the windows of surrounding apatments (why I do not know), but the "coincidence" was surely strange.

This praying/preying mantis experience must have been strange, reading it definitely stopped me in my tracks. I think I might have lost it in this situation since it seems to be such a strange form or some kind reference to an alternate reality. Like some kind of mirror.

On another note: You might want to check out what was said at this thread. http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=237

When I was in the military (for a short time thankfully), I came to experience the "how to make a psychopath" program up close and personal.
I could see in myself the push by that program to create an inner discontiuity and push my sense of self to the other side of an abyss (the best way I can describe it). The military seemed to be trying to seed within me a source of insane rage that even today I do not associate with myself. It was like an attempt to condition me not to be "human". Indeed, you cannot be a "soldier" if you empathize with the "enemy", and the programmers have to set it up so the "enemy" is whoever they say it is.
The last vestige of the sense of the sancitity of self-sovereignty left me during this period, where I had to conclude that we all have our limits. I did not cross those limits, and had to endure a lot of derision, but I got a clear view of them and what lay beyond. For example, I realize many soldiers forced to kill are in torment grasping to the last vestige of their souls on one end and trying to "follow orders" for whatever reason on the other.

 

[Mike]

Think, for example, of an Organic Portal emerging from a "wolf soul pool." Or how about one emerging from a "cat soul pool." Or a "dog soul pool." Or a "rabbit soul pool." Gives an all new meaning to "Playboy Bunnies," eh?

I recently watched a documentary called 'Grizzly Man' about a person that lived with bears in Alaska for 13 straight summers before being killed by a bear. He had a lot of problems in his life before going to live with the bears each year and seemed to be lost with normal life. The issues may have still been there during the years of the visits, but he seemed to have found a purpose and place that he felt comfortable with. He even thought he was a bear at times. The video is video he shot when he was there mostly alone and gives an interesting view into his personality and life. Perhaps he emerged from the "bear soul pool."

 

[Johnno]

Ryan:

I think Johnno may be referring to this:

Session 020713 wrote:

Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?
A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center which is a higher center of creative energy. During sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the lower intellectual cener and the moving center, transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers. This respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But, more than that, the energy of the sexual center is also more available to the other higher centers.
Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?
A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.

Yes that is it. I actually took a photo of a 700 year old freize at Mossaic Cathedral which describes this very idea. The feminine 7d or "great mother', "the virgin" etc is seen to be pointing her exposed breast to the initiates exposed solar plexus (site of the sexual centre).

Note the exposed knees, we've never worked out what they are about. But it's also a symbol used in Freemasory and esoteric art.

Image here

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/264/2992/640/France20041%20081.jpg

Ryan:

Then there are Gurdjieff's comments on "accumulators". I wonder if what he referred to as the "large accumulator" - the main repository of energy available to the organism - has anything to do with the sexual center?

Yep I'd say the two were one and the same.

 

[Laura]

I've often associated the OP type with those who get their energy from people and the "souled" from those who gain their energy from their own energy reserves received from "great mother".

That seems to be fairly accurate though we can't necessarily blame it on the OP. The problem is, even the most good-intentioned one can be used at the drop of a hat as a "portal of attack" since there is no "master of the coach." And this is possible because the "group choice" of this planetary realm happens to be STS.

Remember these clues from C's:

They were originally part of the bridge between 2nd density and 3rd density.

This leads to the problem:

A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.

Which highlights the problem for the Organic Portal.

Regarding the problem for the souled, the C's said about sleep:

It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers.

At an earlier point in time, another question had been asked about sleep and the answer dovetails:

it taxes the soul greatly to be embodied.

There seem to be two issues of energy draining, that of their susceptibility to being used as "portals" and this:

In an individual of the organic variety, the so-called higher chakras are "produced in effect" by stealing that energy from souled beings. This is what gives them the ability to emulate souled beings. The souled being is, in effect, perceiving a mirror of their own soul when they ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings.

Which, of course, is a manifestation of Wishful Thinking. I think that interacting with OPs is quite possible, can be healthy and fruitful on both sides, if it is undertaken with full knowledge and awareness.

I think this looks like you've 'designated' the role of OP to STS and that of "souled" to STO. That probably explains why talking about OPs is such a 'hot' topic. Ie. They are the 'bad' guys because they're STS.

Have I finally found what cross-conceptualisation means? Lol. That would be a first for me. Imo, OPs and non-OPs are a completely different thing from STS and STO. But of course not everybody would agree with this.

If all things were equal, this would be accurate, but if, as we suspect, all things are NOT equal on the BBM, then it is not accurate. See above clues for deeper understanding.

It seems that, as a general rule, it is probably more helpful to think of OPs as being very susceptible to STS influences which equates to being STS.

And it is a "hot topic" because gaining understanding of this issue may very well mean the difference between growth and soul evolution and stagnation and entropy. You can't make much progress if you are continually being a) drained without you knowing the reason; b) attacked without understanding the mechanics.

Of course, just as the Pathocracy seeks to avoid exposure of its deviance, so might the "cunning" of the Organic Portal soul pools seek to divert and/or co-opt awareness of its true nature by either the "add so much nonsense that the train runs off the track" method, or by trying repeatedly to declare that it is a "non-issue" and not worth discussion.

 

[Guest]

This leads to the problem:

A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.

Which highlights the problem for the Organic Portal.

Regarding the problem for the souled, the C's said about sleep:

It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers.

At an earlier point in time, another question had been asked about sleep and the answer dovetails:

it taxes the soul greatly to be embodied.

There seem to be two issues of energy draining, that of their susceptibility to being used as "portals" and this:

In an individual of the organic variety, the so-called higher chakras are "produced in effect" by stealing that energy from souled beings. This is what gives them the ability to emulate souled beings. The souled being is, in effect, perceiving a mirror of their own soul when they ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings.

Which, of course, is a manifestation of Wishful Thinking. I think that interacting with OPs is quite possible, can be healthy and fruitful on both sides, if it is undertaken with full knowledge and awareness.

I think this looks like you've 'designated' the role of OP to STS and that of "souled" to STO. That probably explains why talking about OPs is such a 'hot' topic. Ie. They are the 'bad' guys because they're STS.

Have I finally found what cross-conceptualisation means? Lol. That would be a first for me. Imo, OPs and non-OPs are a completely different thing from STS and STO. But of course not everybody would agree with this.

If all things were equal, this would be accurate, but if, as we suspect, all things are NOT equal on the BBM, then it is not accurate. See above clues for deeper understanding.

It seems that, as a general rule, it is probably more helpful to think of OPs as being very susceptible to STS influences which equates to being STS.

And it is a "hot topic" because gaining understanding of this issue may very well mean the difference between growth and soul evolution and stagnation and entropy. You can't make much progress if you are continually being a) drained without you knowing the reason; b) attacked without understanding the mechanics.

Of course, just as the Pathocracy seeks to avoid exposure of its deviance, so might the "cunning" of the Organic Portal soul pools seek to divert and/or co-opt awareness of its true nature by either the "add so much nonsense that the train runs off the track" method, or by trying repeatedly to declare that it is a "non-issue" and not worth discussion.

A soul is more likely to grow through contact with 4D STO. An OP, however, is susceptible to infiltration from 4D STS. I noticed that OP groups are usually fine on their own, and within the context of their structure. They have a certain balance in their interactions regardless of their lack of real empathy in the individualized sense. After all, they are intelligent mammals for the most part.

When OP groups, however, come into contact with an individualized soul they tend to get triggered into STS polarization, i.e. "Mr. Smith" comes through. This does not seem to be a pleasant experience for them, and instead of being able to see that it is something invading them that is causing the discomfort (which causes psychopathy when the stress is too high for them to handle), they blame the ensouled individual (usually OP's rationalize this according to STS "inspiration").

This seems to form a paradox. To make the transition from soul pool to individualized soul, OP's spontaneously seek some kind of interaction with individualized souls. If all the Adamics were to disappear, the OP's would probably revert into a barbaric soul-pool state. They may not be able to connect with 4D STO themselves, but perhaps they can benefit from its influence through the Adamic intermediary.

On the one hand they gain a template of coherence to act as individuals through Adamic influence, and on the other their tendency to STS orientation pulls them in the other direction. Since the STS influence is essencially invisible to them and acting from within, and since the Adamic influence is external, being promted by STS, they naturally blame the Adamics for the stress and are hostile to their ways, often trying to convert them.

I do not believe OP's are the "bad guys", but they are the unwitting vehicles of the them. I think that when attempting to understand the situation, we should first and foremost be vigilant against the temptation to overly simplify this obviously complex state of affairs. On their own OP's can approach the ideal of the "noble savage" with all the trappings of civilization. They can live in peaceful societies, they can be creative, and form family and social bonds of mammilian harmony in a civilized human context.

Many ensouled individuals in ancient times approached OP societies, and successfully imparted social structures of civilization to assist them to live in greater harmony. The OP's not only benefited, but ended up putting the "lawgivers" on a pedestal. Of course, STS influence would always end up coming in and sabotaging this. Aside from OP leaders being possessed, there were probably individualized souls that went down the STS path, and were given a "mission" to create chaos where the former Adamic benefactor inspired order.

This state of affairs seems to be unavoidable. In another post a C session was quoted regarding the "circle" formed between STS and STO. Although there does seem to be a discontinuity between OP's and Adamics, it may be that this discontinuity serves STS. Adamics in ancient times clearly made it a point to enter OP societies, and try to make a difference, and it seemed to be an organized effort throughout humanity.

As Laura said, if all things were equal, what Ruth expressed would be true. It would be nice if OP's could be "protected" from STS influence and allowed to evolve independently from Adamics. Yet it seems that this is not only not the case, but should not be the case, given the continuity of the circle made of STS and STO aspects.

I believe that the whole point of the varying grades of soul evolution is that those who have charted a certain territory have it in their power to make the path clearer for those that follow. And we must not forget that there is a grand shift in progress that should ultimately change the current conditions of soul evolution over the whole spectrum of existence.

OP's are in a position where their soul pools seem drawn to energies of individuation, but act like animals in a zoo where if you feed them a little they go wild and try to eat you whole. At the same time, they seem to get indigestion from too much individualized soul energy.

If all things were equal, there may ideally be a balance of energy circulation between ensouled and OP groups. The soul pool may not be individualized, but it is still a soul dynamic that seeks to express coherently in individual bodies. The fact that it is distributed, as it were, among many bodies seems to make it fuzzier in terms of presence and leave a lot of room in the OP genetic matrix for STS influence to fill that space. Since OP's are a transitory evolution state, all things are not equal. Nevertheless, just as the darkness defines the light, OP's and Adamics have an interlocking relationship that has yet to find its true center.

I can imagine this discussion can be a headache for many participants given the complexity of the issue. There may be a temptation to just define things and get it over with already; call a spade a spade and get on with it. Yet, I agree that it is a "hot topic" along similar lines that the C's insisted that understanding the circlular relationship between STS and STO held a deep and valuable revelation.

And it is important to remember that the primary element that does not want the deeper understandings and applications hidden in this topic to be available is 4D STS. This element may easily pop out of OP's, but can still put some pressure upon souled humans, especially when they tend to think along lines it considers taboo for its sheep.

Ultimately, Adamics have genetics that can give them an avenue of being able to pilot, guide or calibrate the situation regarding their relationship with OP's as well as Psychopaths (I do not want to use the term "control" due to its STS connotations). I believe Adamics have the potential to master their energy bodies to choose if OP's and/or psychopaths of any category can even perceive them, to choose what these elements do perceive and to choose the "how" and the "how much" of energy interactions between these elements and themselves.

This is a great lesson in my view, and this topic is aligned with the learning of it.

 

[Laura]

It seems that, as a general rule, it is probably more helpful to think of OPs as being very susceptible to STS influences which equates to being STS.

I just want to add that, as a general rule, ALL humans are very susceptible to STS influences and are, in fact, STS until they learn the difference and can then choose to be otherwise. In short, until we begin to make efforts in the direction of "seating the soul," we are all effectively Organic Portals. Some of us, though, can be a portal for an individuate, STO soul.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I propose the name "entropath" for those polarized STS souled beings.

As for reptilian/insect soul pools, here's an excerpt from Jim Keith that I posted in another thread:

I now see that any number of insect metaphors reside in the lore of governments and secret societies, with an emphasis on bees, according to OTO head Ken Grant a symbolic representation of a group mind proceeding from the Queen goddess Isis. Recalling the name of Illuminist Adam Weishaupt's secret society, the Beenan Orden (Order of the Bees), recalling the beehinve emblem of the Freemasons and the Masonic offshoot Mormon Church's hive symbolism, I have to think that this must be a clue to the philosophy of these mystic Machiavellians.

A native/German sect in Columbia uses a swastika as icon and calls their compound Hormiga, in honor of the ant, while the Sarmoung sect of the Sufis calls themselves the "brotherhood of the bee." This sect, interestingly enough, avows that their purpose is to halt the evolution of mankind, reserving the emergence of higher spiritual faculties and powers for an elect few.

Ernst Haekel thought that each cell of a living creature, "though autonomous, is subordinated to the body as a whole; in the same way in the societies of bees, antss, and termites, in the vertebrate herds, and in the human state, each individual is subordinate to the social body of which he is a member.

[Gerald Heard's bee theory of UFOs: outward manifestation of an impersonal insectoid order run by a greater Overmind.]

 

[Guest]

In short, until we begin to make efforts in the direction of "seating the soul," we are all effectively Organic Portals.

Then the distinction between Adamics and OP's is even less pronounced, and for all practical purposes perhaps we should not assume a "you are or you aren't" stance. Rather, no matter what your potential OP is the default state for everyone, and the ensouled influence provides the inner motive to make the choices to realize what is initially a potential.

This would fit with the bell-curve scheme, where the peak would include those of soul potential who are still in the OP default state, even though their genetics do not necessarily support soul pool status, yet they still travel with the herd, as it were.

The ensouled may identify themselves as different from OP's, but lack of understanding can easily lead to confusion, and possibly self-recrimination and guilt when the same ensouled find engrained OP habits in themselves. These STS residues have a habit of leaping out at you out from dark corners just when you thought you had it all covered, and the real danger is a harsh reaction against one's self because it does not live up to idealized standards. It is true that whipping one's self to perfection is rather counterproductive, but unfortunately it is not a rare occurence among those who strive for STO.

The interesting thing is that such an intolerant attitude against oneself (and/or others) is really STS (placing the "idea" of self as "evolved" in a more important position than the learning, which is a dynamic process that "will be what it will be" as the C's say).

 

[noise]

In trying to come up with a chart I created this: http://dickeatsbush.com/dnsmtrx2.htm density matrix which of course is as yet making no reference to deeper psychological make-up of the individual. In an attempt to grasp at the information obtained in this weekends podcast I came up with a more simple idea (osit) in understanding this (series of) topic(s).

OP (Organic Portal) - Soul Shards of a Soul.
N-OP (Non-Organic Portal) – Individual (capacity to be) souls.
Psychopaths – Failed N-OP’s or OP’s

I think I grasp the statement of no reason to be against or opposed to any of the soul types (as in the podcast) including psychopaths. A person would only need to arm/protect themselves against certain beings on an internal level and not be on the offensive i.e. paranoid, fearful.. and let things be simply as they are. It is difficult to word this but I am 'supposing' that if/when one can identify opposing (poor wording) soul types a person could simply then choose the type they would consider to be around or how to protect themselves and conserve their energy.

If failed OP's/N-OP's are capable of identifying one another more easily than a regular OP or N-OP then they would seem to have an advantage. Would this help them to gain more power, financially and politically since they can more easily help one another if they identify with one another more easily? It seems so in the current political trend.

I am certain I am not fully grasping some of the depth of this discussion as I am having to turn to the disctionary in almost every post to try and get my head wrapped around some of the deeper topics in this discussion.

I would add that in my statement above "..and let things be simply as they are." I do not mean it in the form of not resisting tyranny etc.. but being accepting of ones plight and move forward toward a better world where hope is more a growing light than (what seems to me) a dimming one. Not only that but also being able to identify failed OP's/N-OP's and accept them as part of nature and yet be able to protect oneself there from.
Just some thoughts.

 

[anart]

I think we are either Ops or not, with half the worlds population being OPs and half being non-OPs. And I don't think that 'growing a soul' or 'becoming individuated' or gaining access to ones higher chakras automatically enables a person to become STO. That seems more like a choice to me. A choice that could go either way.

Definately an interesting discussion.

I think I see what you are saying, Ruth, and I think that we are all circling around the same idea in some way. 94% of earth's 'human' population is fairly evenly devided into OP and non-OP. Those who are non-OP do have the ability to grow a soul, and to grow their 'glowing coating' above the level of their toes, as don Juan was trying to explain. The issue you seem to be bringing up is whether the growth or development of a soul necessarily means that the soul would choose an STO orientation, and I think that this is a valid issue. The planet earth at this point in 'time' is an STS realm, so the most a soul who consciously chooses to move toward an STO orientation can achieve on this planet, in this dimension, at this 'time', is the intention to be STO, or to be an STO candidate. Naturally, a soul could also consciously choose an STS orientation. I use the word 'naturally' because the universe, ultimately, is always moving toward balance. In so much as a soul can begin to become aware of what it is and can choose to be in service to others, a soul must also be capable of becoming aware of what it is and then choosing to be in service to self. Perhaps this latter choice is, in fact, what we concieve of as evil? Of course, I have no answers, but it is a possibility that should be considered.

 

[anart]

6% psychopaths using a psychiatrists idea of diagnosis seems a bit high.

That's funny, because to me it seems low! There's that subjectivity, I suppose. =)

What happened to the Jack Russell?

Aha! So that must be the terrier part of the mix. The rescue place I got her from said that she is a chihuahua/terrier mix, but they said that it might be a rat terrier, or a jack russell. I'm clueless on terriers, so I've wondered about it. If you could see her in person, you'd see how small she is and her chihuahua-like characteristics as well. I rescued her when she was around 5 years old, so she's full of emotional dents and bruises, but she's so smart and funny that even after only living with her for seven months or so, I don't know what I'd do without her around. =)

 

[Laura]

Psychopaths as a psychiatrist would see them, I think, only make up 1-2% of the population (I'm sorry, but I can't quote the source of this number - maybe it was Checkley?) The other 4-5% who make up our planets pathocrats may probably be half and half.

That figure comes, I believe, from the fact that it is the percentage of the population that actually comes to the attention of the psychiatrist or psychologist. As Hare wrote, after he published his book he was deluged with letters asking him "what about the ones that never come to the attention of the authorities because they are so slick?" He acknowledged that he thought the figure was higher and that research needed to be done.

Martha Stout, based on the stories of her patients who were victims of psychopaths, raised the ante a bit and said as much as 4 % of the population was psychopathic.

If you are born at the right time, with some access to family fortune, and you have a special talent for whipping up other people's hatred and sense of deprivation, you can arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people. With enough money, you can accomplish this from far away, and you can sit back safely and watch in satisfaction. [...]

Crazy and frightening - and real, in about 4 percent of the population....

The prevalence rate for anorexic eating disorders is estimated a 3.43 percent, deemed to be nearly epidemic, and yet this figure is a fraction lower than the rate for antisocial personality. The high-profile disorders classed as schizophrenia occur in only about 1 percent of [the population] - a mere quarter of the rate of antisocial personality - and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say that the rate of colon cancer in the United States, considered "alarmingly high," is about 40 per 100,000 - one hundred times lower than the rate of antisocial personality.

In a recent paper, "Construct VAlidity of Psychopathy in a Community Sample: A Nomological Net Approach, Salekin, Trobst, Krioukova, Journal of Personality Disorders, 15(5), 425-441, 2001), the authors state:

"Psychopathy, as originally conceived by Cleckley (1941), is not limited to engagement in illegal activities, but rather encompasses such personality characteristics as manipulativeness, insincerity, egocentricity, and lack of guilt - characteristics clearly present in criminals but also in spouses, parents, bosses, attorneys, politicians, and CEOs, to name but a few. (Bursten, 1973; Stewart, 1991). Our own examination of the prevalence of psychopathy within a university population suggested that perhaps 5% or more of this sample might be deemed psychopathic, although the vast majority of those will be male (more than 1/10 males versus approximately 1?100 females).

"As such, psychopathy may be characterized ... as involving a tendency towards both dominance and coldness. Wiggins (1995) in summarizing numerous previous findings... indicates that such individuals are prone to anger and irritation and are willing to exploit others. They are arrogant, manipulative, cynical, exhibitionistic, sensation -seeking, Machiavellian, vindictive, and out for their own gain. With respect to their patterns of social exchange (Foa & Foa, 1974), they attribute love and status to themselves, seeing themselves as highly worthy and important, but prescribe neither love nor status to others, seeing them as unworthy and insignificant. This characterization is clearly consistent with the essence of psychopathy as commonly described.

"The present investigation sought to answer some basic questions regarding the construct of psychopathy in non forensic settings... In so doing we have returned to Cleckley's (1941) original emphasis on psychopathy as a personality style not only among criminals, but also among successful individuals within the community.

"What is clear from our findings is that (a) psychopathy measures have converged on a prototype of psychopathy that involves a combination of dominant and cold interpersonal characteristics; (b) psychopathy does occur in the community and at what might be a higher than expected rate; and (c) psychopathy appears to have little overlap with personality disorders aside from Antisocial Personality Disorder. ...

"Clearly, where much more work is needed is in understanding what factors differentiate the abiding (although perhaps not moral-abiding) psychopath from the law-breaking psychopath; such research surely needs to make greater use of non forensic samples than has been customary in the past."

The entire paper is on our site and linked from the main psychopathy page: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

Lobaczewski kept stumbling over the figure 6 % though he did not designate them psychopathic because, at the time (and even still for many psychologists and psychiatrists, though this is changing), it was thought that in order for there to be a diagnosis of psychopathy, the individual had to also be "anti-social" in a criminal sense.

It was relatively easy to determine the environments and origin of the people who succumbed to this process, which I then called “transpersonification”. They came from all social groups, including aristocratic and fervently religious families, and caused a break in our student solidarity in the order of some 6 %. The remaining majority suffered varying degrees of personality disintegration which gave rise to individual efforts in searching for the values necessary to find ourselves again; the results were varied and sometimes creative.

As Robert Hare said, all anti-socials are not psychopaths and all psychopaths are not anti-social in the DSM IV-R definition.

I think that it is safe to estimate the outside limit of true psychopathy at 6% though, of course, many people who have been raised in a psychopath dominated society may very well manifest many of the traits and not be truly psychopathic. If you count them, and Lobaczewski does, coming up with a figure of 12% for that group, then added to the 6 %, that makes 18% total that may as well be psychopathic.

 

[Mike]

That seems to be fairly accurate though we can't necessarily blame it on the OP. The problem is, even the most good-intentioned one can be used at the drop of a hat as a "portal of attack" since there is no "master of the coach."

In an individual of the organic variety, the so-called higher chakras are "produced in effect" by stealing that energy from souled beings. This is what gives them the ability to emulate souled beings. The souled being is, in effect, perceiving a mirror of their own soul when they ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings.

Which, of course, is a manifestation of Wishful Thinking. I think that interacting with OPs is quite possible, can be healthy and fruitful on both sides, if it is undertaken with full knowledge and awareness.

An OP seems to be nuetral. They can be used as a portal of attack by STS. Can they be used as a portal as STO? I think no since this would go against free will, but that doesn't say that they can't be influenced by 4D STO through interaction. I've been reading the transcripts and came across this a couple nights ago. The word image is intriguing to me since it seems to relate to reflection, mirror and projection:

Q: (L) Is it possible that one area of the cosmos has more of the balance seeking energy while another has more of that
which is seeking imbalance?
A: Oh yes!
Q: (L) Is the Earth one of those areas that is more imbalanced than balanced at the present time?
A: Yes, but rapidly moving back toward balance.
Q: (L) Is the Realm Border part of this balancing?
A: Yes.
Q: (V) A few weeks ago several of us began to suffer from internal heat, insomnia, and other things. What was this?
A: Image. Deep conjunction of fibrous linkage in DNA structure.
Q: (V) Well, I want to know if it is in my mind that I get so hot, or does my body temperature actually elevate?
A: Only on 4th.
Q: (V) I don't understand.
A: Bleedthrough, get used to those!
Q: (L) Does this mean we are actually experiencing a bleedthrough of 4th density?
A: Image.
Q: (V) Are the little flashes of light I see also a manifestation of this?
A: Maybe so, but try to concentrate on the ethereal significance, rather than the physical.
Q: (L) When you say "deep conjunction of fibrous linkage," does this mean that we are conjoining with a linkage to a 4th
density body that is growing, developing?
A: Slowly, but surely. Now, get ready for a message: We have told you before that the upcoming "changes" relate to the
spiritual and awareness factors rather than the much publicized physical. Symbolism is always a necessary tool in
teaching. But, the trick is to read the hidden lessons represented by the symbology, not to get hung up on the literal
meanings of the symbols!
Q: (L) You say that the symbology has to do with hidden meanings. The symbology that you used was "image" and
"deep fibrous linkage" of DNA. Now, is that a physical, symbolic image?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) What is your definition of "image?" We have many.
A: Learning is fun, Laura, as you have repeatedly found!
Q: (L) Well, I am so hot now that I really want to know! And, how come I am always the one who gets assigned the job
of figuring everything out?
A: Because you have asked for the "power" to figure out the most important issues in all of reality. And, we have been
assisting you in your empowerment.
Q: (L) Image. DNA linkage. (V) "Power" was in quotes.
A: Leave that alone for now, you will know soon enough.
Q: (V) Is this 4th density body something that already exists so that we could communicate with it?
A: Habeas Corpus?
Q: (V) Well, they just said... (L) Well, what they must mean is that you ARE it - you are transforming little by little and all
of the unpleasant little side-effects are just part of it.
A: Yes.

And a mention of reflection.

Q: (L) If gravity is collected and dispersed, and planets and stars are windows, and you say that human beings "have"
gravity, does that mean that the human beings, or the life forms on a given planet or in a given solar system, are the
collectors of this gravity?
A: No. Gravity is the collector of human beings and all else! Make "collector" singular.
Q: (L) Is STO the equivalent of dispersing gravity?
A: No, STO is a REFLECTION of the existence of gravity dispersal.
Q: (L) Is STS also dispersal of gravity?
A: No. Collection is reflected. STS is reflection or reflected by collection of gravity.

A way to describe an OP might be that they can be used as "projection" by STS for an attack and to control souled individuals and if they are not being used as such they are "reflecting" those souled beings around them be it STS or an STO candidate. Blame can't be placed on an OP. Using an analogy of the Matrix, this would be like blaming a person that turns into Mr. Smith for letting it happen when they have no choice. But what a souled individual has is choice. They can choose to be aware and have knowledge of what is possible and if they have enough knowledge they in affect minimize or totally negate the attack. Perhaps if individuals are moving slowly into 4D and those working to be STO candidates will be an influence or reflection of this for those around them, helping to move "back toward balance." Maybe drastic change, such as the arrival of the comet cluster and bombardment, will help to awaken people to what they have chosen to be and value. Could be wishful thinking though.

I just want to add that, as a general rule, ALL humans are very susceptible to STS influences and are, in fact, STS until they learn the difference and can then choose to be otherwise. In short, until we begin to make efforts in the direction of "seating the soul," we are all effectively Organic Portals.

If a souled person uses this knowledge and understands what an OP is and "make(s) efforts in the direction of "seating the soul," then the relationship seems as Laura stated doesn't have to necessarily be negative. If a souled individual doesn't let an OP steal their energy because they do not "ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings," what does the relationship turn into? Is some kind of positive feedback loop started or does the OP just get recharged from their soul pool and no other interaction take place? Is this relationship with an OP different for a person that is working toward STO orientation and a person on the path to becoming further STS? Seems that a person working on becoming an STO candidate that sees the OP drainage and stops it from happening may show a "reflection" of this change in the OPs around them and that an STS individual would be drained by the OP if they were not aware of them.

A: Not exactly. A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.

The issue you seem to be bringing up is whether the growth or development of a soul necessarily means that the soul would choose an STO orientation, and I think that this is a valid issue.

"more likely" seems to point out that a soul can grow by interacting with 4D STS. I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around how it could happen though. I also consistently fall back to the notion that a souled individual is something positive; instead of it is what it is and can be STO or STS by choice.