Organic Portals: Human variation

[Lucy]

Another thing that I have noticed in my mental review, which I then experimented with in relation to a couple of individuals that I was curious about and it seems to be a solid "test", is "the ability to learn from a particular situation and then transfer that learning to another situation that is similar in INTERNAL dynamics, but completely different in external form.

Am I correct in thinking this is related to the example of the OP who understands physical pain, but is unable to understand unseen or emotional pain, or apply one concept of pain to another?

If so, I'm thinking OP's may have a certain way of 'processing' and using information that was understood by those "in the past." Perhaps this is one way they came to the conclusion, or came to realize, it was possible to hide, or encode, "the tradition" in plain sight in myths, legends, etc.-- because OP's are fundamentally unable to process information in the same way as a souled human. So it would be obscured from OP's, while at the same time leaving it 'available' for those with the ability to find and use it.

And I'm also thinking that the 'way' Laura's articles are written make them very difficult, perhaps impossible, for an OP to read, much less "get".

How many times have you read a novel and tried to discuss it with someone else, only to feel as though you are discussing two different books...because the other person totally missed the underlying themes; apparently unable to transfer that which is hinted at, alluded to, or portrayed, through the charactors and external situations in the book into more abstract or internal concepts that could be compared, or applied, to a different set of circumstances? I used to think it was simply a matter of differences in intelligence and experiences, and perhaps sometimes that's true, but I'm wondering now if there may sometimes be a different dynamic at work. That's not to say an OP couldn't learn to fake this ability, at least to some degree...but it wouldn't be easy for them, or so I would think. No wonder they are unable to exhibit true creativity!

Of course, not everyone who "reads" a novel in this 'incomplete' way is necessarily an OP, but perhaps if we can 'remember' the 'feeling' of such experiences with others it will give us a clue as to the 'flavor' of interacting with an OP?

Lucy

 

[Laura]

Of course, not everyone who "reads" a novel in this 'incomplete' way is necessarily an OP, but perhaps if we can 'remember' the 'feeling' of such experiences with others it will give us a clue as to the 'flavor' of interacting with an OP?

Yes, "flavor" is a good word. I often use "taste." I had two experiences of this many years ago when I was having an intense discussion with an individual who was very close to me (two individuals, two experiences) and, at some point in the conversation, when the other person had said a number of things that made it clear we weren't "communicating", I began to feel a very strange sensation as though I was in one reality and this person was in another, and our words meant completely different things in each reality. I kept trying, breaking the concepts down to be more and more simple, and finally I realized that the other person just simply could not grasp an abstract idea at all.

Since, in both cases, the individual in question had become very close to me over time, this was very disorienting and disturbing. I realized - almost with a heart-stopping thud - that I was alone. I had thought I was communicating with someone who understood everything I had ever said, someone who gave the "right feedback" to make me think that, but it was clear at that moment that they had NEVER understood what I was saying AS I intended it to be understood. There was some chasm between us that could not be crossed no matter how I tried.

Of course, the first thing you think when you experience something like that is that maybe you are seeing too much, that you are reading things into - say a book - that aren't there. But then, you might read the ideas of someone else who has read the book and realize that, yes, what you were perceiving IS perceived by others, just not the others right close to you!

And yes, I think that the whole "Green Language" thing is all about this deeper layer of communication. That's why I was SO disappointed with Bridges and Weidner's book about Fulcanelli. I realized, about 1/3 of the way through it, that they didn't have a clue. And this was after a year or more of exchanges and discussion where they gave the impression that they were going to produce the goods, the definitive analysis, and I was waiting with baited breath.

Yes, there were clues throughout the early exchange that maybe we weren't talking the same language and that was one of the reasons I started writing the Wave Series - to try to break all these ideas down into simple form and give real life examples, metaphors, allegories, and so on - in hopes that it would bridge the chasm. But no, it seems that the ones who cannot "get it" are the ones who pronounce it to be a "rant."

Back in 2004, during one of the workshops, I started thinking about all of this in a certain way. I noticed that communication between people is so difficult - you think you are understood, and an hour later the other person will say or do something that makes it clear that nothing you have said has been grokked at all - that this is the chief difficulty in human relations. So, as I observed the many people and interactions, as I listened when people came to me with their version of events, and then another person would come with a different version of the same events, I started to think about "reality bubbles."

In general, perception of the world outside us occurs through our five senses. But it is our interpretation of those signals that decides what they mean. So, everything is "translated" by the filter of the "reality bubble" into that person's definitions and internal explanations of the world. Their definitions and explanations are based on experiences, conditioning, etc. For example, if a person was scared by a clown when they were little, then all clowns are going to be perceived with a bit of a twist "clowns=bad, scary". It's like a distortion ground into a lens through which you view the world.

So it is that, as we move through our world, we are surrounded, in effect, by an energy bubble. I pictured it as a bubble of various levels of clarity and permeability that surrounds each person. This "bubble energy" seemed to act as the primary filter through which all experiences were perceived. As a filter, it strained, altered, rearranged, distorted, a person's interpretation of the world.

So, as "wave reading consciousness units," if our READER capacity is distorted by the lenses that have been "ground and polished" by experience and even fundamental nature, we have a problem.

We proceed through our lives surrounded by this bubble, this "energy lens" and it is with THIS, and not our inner self, that we interact with the world. Information coming to us has to pass through this filter first and the filter works to mold the information to conform with the belief systems, reality dictionary and
conditioning of the person. What we see or hear may be what we get, but it may not necessarily be an exact copy or even a reasonable facsimile of the original message.

So the person attempting to communicate is not even aware that what they have communicated (which may be already based on a faulty understanding because of their own "reality filter") is not at all received by the other person as they intended.

How to solve this problem?

Well, I try to deal with it when writing by using stories and metaphors and examples so that no matter how the reader's "reality filter" is configured, there will be a way to get it.

But in personal communications, how to deal with it?

We have learned in QFG that we CAN get pretty close to true understanding by a robust feedback mechanism. If enough members of a group give feedback on a subject, each in their own way, there are enough overlaps in word usage and style that a fairly accurate idea finally emerges for everyone. Yes, one, or a few, or even all, may have to make some "filter adjustments" during the process, and it's not even a calculated thing - it just happens - with the end result being that pretty much everyone finally "gets it."

It seems that, in such a process, the Primary Filter, the personal interface, or reality bubble is being "re-ground" or readjusted or calibrated to allow the reception of accurate communication.

Well, that's all fine and good for people who are aware that communication is a great difficulty and who are willinng to work and even give up beliefs, prejudices, biases; but what about OPs who don't seem to have the capacity to look at themselves at all and even see that they have any such thing as a belief, prejudice or bias?

That's where reading about psychopathy helped me to understand something important: since they do not have the "inner connection" to souled humans, they are only very complex emulators. As Meloy said about psychopaths, the OP "has no awareness of this "false self" or the "as if" quality of his phenomenal experience. He does not merely play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part."

The difference between the OP and the psychopath seems to be that the psychopath is intentionally, consciouslly, mimics a targeted person's attitudes and behavior to get something and the OP does not do this consciously.

Why?

I think it is because of what the OP has that the psychopath does not: a rudimentary emotional center.

The C's related the "chakras" to the Centers as explicated by the "Tradition" brought to the Western world by Gurdjieff through Ouspensky and later by Mouravieff. It seems that the OP has:

Lower moving center - basal chakra
Lower emotional - sexual chakra
Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Now, if a psychopath is a "failed OP," in the terms Darren has defined (which I think might be the answer) "an inability to reproduce the higher centers in effect," we can theorize that the proper balance of the above three lower centers IS able to "emulate."

The psychopath is defined as being "without conscience" and, to a certain extent, I think that OPs have a sort of rudimentary conscience that relates to their "soul pool" connection which is probably "connected" via one of the above centers, possibly the lower emotional, or sexual chakra.

And here, I come to a stop because I don't think that a psychopath could exist without being connected in some way to a "soul pool" energy and the only answer that presents itself is that such are connected - via a quirk of genetics - to a reptilian soul pool while OPs are connected to mammalian soul pools.

It seems almost as though the mammalian step of evolution was a step in the direction of conscious creation, a type of creature that cares for and nurtures it's young from it's own body, heats its own blood, etc. And, by being connected in some sense to this larger, overarching "soul type," the OP partakes of this "creative energy" and is thus not emulating in a consciously predatory fashion, but rather there IS something very real and fundamental about its tendency toward soul qualities in the same way a germinating seed moves toward the light.

So the "rudimentary emotional center" of the OP could simply be this connection to the taxon: mammalia.

I admit that it is a strange thing to think about a human looking being, a mammal by definition, with a reptilian Operating System. Anybody got a better idea?

 

[Laura]

Am I correct in thinking this is related to the example of the OP who understands physical pain, but is unable to understand unseen or emotional pain, or apply one concept of pain to another?

If so, I'm thinking OP's may have a certain way of 'processing' and using information that was understood by those "in the past." Perhaps this is one way they came to the conclusion, or came to realize, it was possible to hide, or encode, "the tradition" in plain sight in myths, legends, etc.-- because OP's are fundamentally unable to process information in the same way as a souled human. So it would be obscured from OP's, while at the same time leaving it 'available' for those with the ability to find and use it.

And I'm also thinking that the 'way' Laura's articles are written make them very difficult, perhaps impossible, for an OP to read, much less "get".

Well, speak of the Devil... In this morning's email what should arrive??? A long missive from a one-time, short time, member of casschat who did not have a very good experience there whom some of you may recall. After she had worn just about everybody on casschat out with her amazing persistance in attempting to impose her view of reality on everyone else, I thought I would give it a try. As you might guess, it was exactly as productive as trying to communicate with Durand though this person is a lot more coherent. That's why I don't think this individual is Schizoidal psychopath, but I wonder if there is such a thing as a schizoidal OP?

Anyway, if you listened to last Saturday's podcast, you will know that I was a bit exercised about the ramping up of the demonization of Muslims. Now, anybody who reads our stuff knows that this is NOT because I'm pro-Islam. I'm not. I think religions, as they are generally constituted, are just control mechanisms and Islam is no different. But it is certainly no worse than Judaism and Christianity. What I see coming is another Holocaust, another genocide, and maybe worse if something doesn't shift.

Now, of course, everybody just concentrated on the positive, thought of Hitler as a phenomenon that would come and go like any other politician, thought that all the usual diplomatic endeavors would sort things out, and so on, in the run-up to WW II. You could say that about EVERYBODY was concentrating on the positive and that's why no decisive steps were taken to DO anything.

Well, of course, there was also the evil machinations of the PTB behind the scenes, and that is also present today. The point is, no matter how positive an approach was taken, no matter how many millions of people were focusing on the positive, praying that things would sort out without violence, it happened anyway. Something like 65 million people died and vast portions of earth were unihabitable.

So, here it is, all the signs are there, people are already suffering and dying in genocides taking place RIGHT now, and what does this woman write to me?

Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:40:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mel Conrad *****
Subject: Staying positive
To: Laura ****

Hi Laura....... it's been a while.

My new year's resolution was to remain positive. For
that reason, I have steered clear of websites that
focus on the negative [you might say 'objective']
state of the world, and the Illuminati agendas,
preferring instead to read articles about gratitude,
love, freedom and DNA changes.

I feel that I have already investigated, obsessed,
ranted and raved more than enough over Illuminati
issues. What I found was that this constant focus on
how bad things were, wasn't helping in any way, either
personally, or collectively, to remedy the situation.

In other words, since she didn't get instant gratification, she decided that it was a waste of time. The Truth is not the value...

Thus, I decided to find something positive to focus
on, instead. It doesn't matter what that positive
focus is, and it doesn't matter if the positivity is
based on wishful thinking - positivity has its own
rewards. Yes, both personally and collectively.

I have to say that this last bit rendered me speechless: "It doesn't matter if positivity is based on wishful thinking" i.e. LIES, what is important is to make yourself feel better and to hell with all the genocide.

Well, as the saying goes: do not do to others what you would not want done to you. What I often think about is how I would feel if I were in the middle of a war zone, with my children dying of hunger or wounds before my eyes, to know that no one was aware of my existence, that no one cared enough to stand up and speak for me...

There were millions of Melissa Conrad's focusing on the positive while Hitler ignited a Holocaust.

This is demonstrated by the experiments
outlined below, in Gregg Braden's report.

Even though I have now resolved to remain in the space
of optimism and gratitude, I still like to touch base,
so to speak, now and again, to see how the rest of the
world is coping. When I tuned into your latest Podcast
yesterday, and was greeted by your melancholy and
entirely pessimistic commentary on the current state
of the world, I realised how much I have benefited
this year by NOT going down that road.

There are millions of people who are not benefitting from Melissa Conrad's focus on the positive while they suffer. But I guess that's the point. Melissa can't suffer for anyone else because - well, it's too darn much like suffering! What people like Melissa (and Greg Braden) don't realize is that not facing reality and taking your suffering mixed in with the good, is like living on borrowed money. Eventually the account has to be settled.

You started your commentary by saying something like:
"Another week has passed and we are now even closer to
the annihilation of humankind."

Your tone throughout this 'discussion' was mawkish,
sour, cynical, doleful and low-spirited - as exampled
by your outpouring: "are there any souls out there?!"

It seems to me, Laura, [and I say this with kindness,
not hostility], that your 'daily battle against
subjectivity' is serving neither you, nor the rest of
the world. This constant focus on the negative agendas
of the USA and Israel, and your incessant
chest-bashing and hand-wringing, only add more fuel to
this fire. You are sending out demands to the universe
that your worst fears be made manifest.

At this point, she has shifted into the schizoidal reality.

Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other people’s intentions. They easy become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature. We frequently find expressions of their characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human nature is so bad that order in human society can only be maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical expression the “schizoid declaration”.

And in the case of the "you create your own reality types, they promote the "higher idea" of "focusing on the positive" as the "higher power" that is going to save everybody.

Their tendency to see human reality in the doctrinaire and simplistic manner they consider “proper”, transforms their frequently good intentions into bad results. However, their ponerogenic role can take on macro-social proportions if their attitude toward human reality and their tendency to invent great doctrines are put to paper and duplicated in large editions.

Really and truly, how is this helping?

May I amiably suggest that you find some good in the
world, and change your focus to that. It will serve
you well, I promise.

Sincerely - Mel

The thing is, I'm not trying to serve myself. If I was, I sure the heck wouldn't be doing what I am doing. What is most disturbing, though, is her inference that I do not find some good in the world. It's as though she completely misses the subtext of everything I say.

And here is the data on which Melissa is basing her "Focus on the Positive" regime:

DNA Report -- by Gregg Braden

Below are three astonishing experiments with DNA which
prove that DNA can heal itself according to the
"feelings" of the individual as reported recently by
Gregg Braden. In his recent program entitled Healing
Hearts/Healing Nations: The Science of Peace and the
Power of Prayer, Gregg Braden discussed how in the
past we lost huge amounts of information from ancient
spiritual traditions (when the library at Alexandria
burned we lost at least 532,000 documents), and that
there may be information in those traditions which
could help us understand some of the mysteries of
science. To this end he reported on three very
interesting experiments. Gregg Braden started off as a
scientist and engineer, before he began pursuing these
larger questions.

EXPERIMENT #1

The first experiment reported was done by Dr.Vladimir
Poponin, a quantum biologist. In this experiment,
first a container was emptied (i.e. a vacuum was
created within it), and then the only thing left
photons (particles of light) they measured the
distribution (ie the location) of the photons and
found they were completely random inside the
container. This was the expected result.

Then some DNA was placed inside the container and the
distribution (location) of the photons was remeasured.
This time the photons were LINED UP in an ORDERED way
and aligned with the DNA. In other words the physical
DNA had an effect on the non- physical photons.

After that, the DNA was removed from the container,
and the distribution of the photons was measured
again. The photons REMAINED ORDERED and lined up where
the DNA had been. What are the light particles
connected to?

Gregg Braden says we are forced to accept the
possibility that some NEW field of energy, a web of
energy, is there and the DNA is communicating with the
photons through this energy.

EXPERIMENT #2

These were experiments done by the military.
Leukocytes (white blood cells) were collected for DNA
from donors and placed into chambers so they could
measure electrical changes. In this experiment, the
donor was placed in one room and subjected to
"emotional stimulation" consisting of video clips,
which generated different emotions in the donor. The
DNA was placed in a different room in the same
building. Both the donor and his DNA were monitored
and as the donor exhibited emotional peaks or valleys
(measured by electrical responses), the DNA exhibited
the IDENTICAL RESPONSES AT THE EXACT SAME TIME. There
was no lag time, no transmission time. The DNA peaks
and valleys EXACTLY MATCHED the peaks and valleys of
the donor in time.

The military wanted to see how far away they could
separate the donor from his DNA and still get this
effect. They stopped testing after they separated the
DNA and the donor by 50 miles and STILL had the SAME
result. No lag time; no transmission time.

The DNA and the donor had the same identical responses
in time. What can this mean? Gregg Braden says it
means that living cells communicate through a
previously unrecognized form of energy. This energy is
not affected by time and distance. This is a non-
local form of energy, an energy that already exists
everywhere, all the time.

EXPERIMENT #3

The third experiment was done by the Institute of
Heart Math and the paper that was written about this
was titled: Local and Non local Effects of Coherent
Heart Frequencies on Conformational Changes of DNA.
(Disregard the title! The info is incredible.)

This is the experiment that relates directly to the
anthrax situation. In this experiment, some human
placenta DNA (the most pristine form of DNA) was
placed in a container from which they could measure
changes in the DNA. Twenty-eight vials of DNA were
given (one each) to 28 trained researchers. Each
researcher had been trained how to generate and FEEL
feelings, and they each had strong emotions.

What was discovered was that the DNA CHANGED ITS SHAPE
according to the feelings of the researchers:

1. When the researchers FELT gratitude, love and
appreciation, the DNA responded by RELAXING and the
strands unwound. The length of the DNA became longer.

2. When the researchers FELT anger, fear, frustration,
or stress, the DNA responded by TIGHTENING UP. It
became shorter and SWITCHED OFF many of our DNA codes!
If you've ever felt "shut down" by negative emotions,
now you know why your body was equally shut down too.
The shut down of the DNA codes was reversed and the
codes were switched back on again when feelings of
love, joy, gratitude and appreciation were felt by the
researchers.

This experiment was later followed up by testing HIV
positive patients. They discovered that feelings of
love, gratitude and appreciation created 300,000 TIMES
the RESISTANCE they had without those feelings. So
here's the answer to what can help you stay well, no
matter what dreadful virus or bacteria may be floating
around. Stay in feelings of joy, love, gratitude and
appreciation!

These emotional changes went beyond the effects of
electro- magnetics. Individuals trained in deep love
were able to change the shape of their DNA. Gregg
Braden says this illustrates a new recognized form of
energy that connects all of creation. This energy
appears to be a TIGHTLY WOVEN WEB that connects all
matter. Essentially we're able to influence this web
of creation through our VIBRATION.

SUMMARY:

What do the results of these experiments have to do
with our present situation? This is the science behind
how we can choose a timeline to stay safe, no matter
what else is happening. As Gregg explains in The
Isaiah Effect, basically time is not just linear
(past, present and future), but it also has depth. The
depth of time consists of all the possible prayers and
timelines that could ever be prayed or exist.
Essentially, all our prayers have already been
answered. We just activate the one we're living
through our FEELINGS.

THIS is how we create our reality - by choosing it
with our feelings. Our feelings are activating the
timeline via the web of creation, which connects all
of the energy and matter of the Universe.

Remember that the law of the Universe is that we
attract what we focus on. If you are focused on
fearing whatever may come, you are sending a strong
message to the Universe to send you whatever you fear.
Instead if you can get yourself into feelings of joy,
love, appreciation or gratitude, and focus on bringing
more of that into your life, you are going to avoid
the negative stuff automatically.

You will be choosing a different TIMELINE with your
feelings.

You can prevent getting anthrax or any other flu,
virus, etc, by staying in these positive feelings,
which maintains an incredibly strong immune system.

So here's your protection for whatever comes: Find
something to be happy about every day, and every hour
if possible, moment-to- moment, even if only for a few
minutes. This is the easiest and best protection you
can have. If nothing else, be joyous that the
criminals have "already been caught" by the Universe!

Gregg Braden is the author of "The Isaiah Effect" and
"Awakening to the Zero Point"

Now, what Melissa Conrad doesn't seem to know is that all of the above is COINTELPRO. Anyone who takes the time and trouble to start checking on the organizations, the participants, their connections, will find that it's all a big scam! We've already got dozens of pages on our website that map these kinds of things, that discuss them and "who's on first" and so on, but as Lucy said:

And I'm also thinking that the 'way' Laura's articles are written make them very difficult, perhaps impossible, for an OP to read, much less "get".

Now let me add that in my exchanges with Melissa Conrad last year (went on for a couple of months and took an ENORMOUS amount of time) most of what I explained to her was stuff that was already on the site and I just copied and pasted it back to her. But it was like talking to a monkey. She never, ever got anything. At that point in time she was trying like crazy to force me to adopt David Icke's ideas as the "best explanation for everything."

I don't think she is schizoidal even if she does demonstrate that bizarre tenacity and persistance so typical of that abnormality. I mean, if she has decided that I am wrong and that she doesn't like what we think, do and say, why does she keep "checking back?"

I am aware, because of the correspondence I had with her that Lobaczewski's words describe her perfectly:

..insufficiently critical, frequently frustrated as result of downward social adjustment, culturally neglected, or characterized by some psychological deficiencies...

What struck me as I was reading this today and recalling the past exchanges was what EsoQuest said:

I would thing an OP's primary motive is security and stability, with a few frills and thrills thrown in of course. [...]

Anyway, in this part of the world the OP portion of the population as a rule considers compassion equivalent to stupidity. "Officially" ideals about god and ancestors and sacred custom are waved around like so many flags at a parade. In any private conversation, however, the words compassionate and stupid are often interchangeable in the vernacular.

[...] OP's, on the other hand, may be intelligent, but they utilize intelligence to organize and justify their deeper motives, and perhaps form a social structure that can maintain those motives fulfilled even in the context of social alliances (community), social compromizes (rules and law), a universal support (religion, "philosophy" and "science"), with constant ritualistic affirmations of the three former structures. And in my experience they really believe this is healthy normality.

That seems to describe Melissa perfectly though she has certainly fallen under the spell of the Schizoidal Psychopath type doctrinaire nonsense:

During stable times which are ostensibly happy, albeit marked by injury to individuals and nations, doctrinaire people believe they have found a simple solution to fix such a world. Such a historical period is always characterized by an impoverished psychological world-view, a schizoidally impoverished psychological world-view thus does not stand out during such times and is accepted as legal tender. These doctrinaire individuals characteristically manifest a certain contempt with regard to moralists then preaching the need to rediscover lost human values and to develop a richer, more appropriate psychological world-view.
Schizoid characters aim to impose their own conceptual world upon other people or social groups, using relatively controlled pathological egotism and the exceptional tenacity derived from their persistent nature.

 

[Lucy]

I guess I am associating turmoil with "inner discomfort" that is inevitable when things do not go the way the psychotic wants. It seems the psychotic always knows what they want, and certainly does not experience doubt about wanting it. "Turmoil" as I mention it is the discomfort the psychotic experiences when what they want falls out of reach.

I'm thinking that not only do they not experience doubt about wanting it, to them it is a normal desire. And from close personal contact and experience with two psychopaths I think they do feel discomfort and pain, just not in the way we experience it. It has to do with context.

Since everything is seen, or in this case felt, from their point of view, a predatory one of constantly needing to feed, then they do feel pain, even a certain kind of anguish, when their food, or whatever they've come to see as something they need, is taken away from them. This is very real to them, and as difficult for us to understand as it is for them to understand our pain. I think they may often even find themselves in a state of turmoil because of this, leading to those situations where they lash out at the person who is depriving them of whatever it is they desire.

Whatever it is they want, they want with a craving we can't easily identify with, making it an all consuming need in the way a junkie needs a fix, and will do whatever it takes to get it. Their Operating System is truly different, even from that of a normally functioning OP. The way they 'rationalize' is different.

I don't think that a psychopath could exist without being connected in some way to a "soul pool" energy and the only answer that presents itself is that such are connected - via a quirk of genetics - to a reptilian soul pool while OPs are connected to mammalian soul pools.

It seems almost as though the mammalian step of evolution was a step in the direction of conscious creation, a type of creature that cares for and nurtures it's young from it's own body, heats its own blood, etc. And, by being connected in some sense to this larger, overarching "soul type," the OP partakes of this "creative energy" and is thus not emulating in a consciously predatory fashion, but rather there IS something very real and fundamental about its tendency toward soul qualities in the same way a germinating seed moves toward the light.

So the "rudimentary emotional center" of the OP could simply be this connection to the taxon: mammalia.

I admit that it is a strange thing to think about a human looking being, a mammal by definition, with a reptilian Operating System. Anybody got a better idea?

This makes sense, and in fact seems to explain how psychopaths may atavistically run in families...which was a real stumbling block for me. Perhaps the original idea of keeping bloodlines pure is also connected to this idea as much, or even more so, than the idea that bloodlines should not be mixed because of OP's. Perhaps both adamics and preadamics could conceivably carry some trace of the genes responsible for a Reptilian Operating System, but when those genes are recombined with the genes of an OP the result would result in a failed OP, or a genetic psychopath. With a fully souled human, what would the effect be? Perhaps a Reptilian Operating System can take over when there is only a soul imprint available? Or, the "rudimentary emotional center" of the OP cannot withstand this particular "genetic quirk?"

How is this connected to the concept of "evil?"
I'm thinking about this exchange with the C's in a slightly different way from before:

Q: (L) But isn't the nature of a person determined by their
soul and not the physical body?
A: Partially, remember, aural profile and karmic reference
merges with physical structure.
Q: (L) So you are saying that particular genetic conditions are
a physical reflection of a spiritual orientation? That the soul
must match itself to the genetics, even if only in potential?
A: Yes, precisely.
Q: (L) So a person's potential for spiritual advancement or
unfoldment is, to a great extent, dependent upon their genes?
A: Natural process marries with systematic construct when
present.

Lucy

 

[Guest]

It's obvious that this is an important thread. We all deal with OP's and psychopaths, and understanding them can resolve a lot of problems. In fact the individualized ensouled human is designed to be able to deal with them, and activating that design is part of the realization of "Adamic" evolutionary purpose. We cannot be fulfilled otherwise, because if we do not define the playing field through greater understanding then they define it though a more limited perspective to which we are forced to adapt, and suffer because of it.

That said, I mentioned in a former comment that I do not believe that OP's have less centers than Adamics. As views are going through constant reorientation, however, what I do agree with is that the above mentioned centers of OP's are dominant, and in fact they dominate and use the other centers. I have met psychos with dominant third eyes, in fact trying to use third eye energies to control others. However, the third eye energies were manipulated by the lower intellect and in service to it.

The same individuals were usually cold and quite intellectual, very dissociated from their lower centers. Many treated their bodies like machines they simply had to keep tuned and oiled so they would not break down on them. These people had a strong visionary sense, and the ability to project thoughts, but it was all delusional. Some of these even professed to channel or be actual incarnations of dubious cosmic "entities".

Others were more connected to the lower centers, and used emotional energy as a weapon projecting anger or fear out of their bodies to get their way. They seemed to be able to generate emotion, and could experience it, but it was a means to an end. All in all it seemed not only as if it was a reptile soul in a mammilian body, but in some cases the soul of a spider, a wasp, a centipede or even a leech.

There were people were I felt the real soul was a leech embedded in the reptilian operating system manipulating the mammilian structures to pose as human. Such a state of affairs would be incompatible even with OP genetics because of the vast evolutionary gap, and if an Adamic was attacked to the extent of being infected by a centipede soul pool, for example, the individualized genetic matrix would focus the primitive pattern into a highly individualized focus so the individual would percieve itself as a centipede avatar, a scorpion avatar or what have you. There are black magicians who have tendencies of identifying with venomous vermin.

In the movie "The Fly" the character under transformation said something to the effect of what would a human be like with the morals of a fly. Pretty much insane by human standards.

Perhaps that is why 4D STS attacks Adamics so much: because it considers them a kind of prize if it can completely inhibit the original soul energy and substitute it with a condensation of its soul pool in an individualized genetic matrix. This would also be much more difficult to accomplish because of center balance and Adamic activation. On the other hand OP's are a bit closer to more evolutionarily primitive soul energies.

Even so, more often than not (especially when the soul pool corresponds to something like a leech), even a mammilian soul pool is strained when infected by energies of a more primal nature. These may be 4D, but more in resonance with forms associated with the bottom end of 2D than anything else. Any latent higher centers would probably be forced into activation, possibly by infecting latent genetics into activation and screwing with neural pathways.

Both Adamic psychotics and OP psychotics can then be pathological for different reasons. The Adamics because of individualizing in high contrast focus energies meant to be spread over a primitive soul pool, and OP's because their human/mammal structure cannot handle the enforced manipulation of centers not mature enough to vibrate according to the predatory demands of the possessing force.

When there are no incompatible evolutionary soul pools in the picture both OP's and Adamic are fine in the context of their natures. Adamics could learn to understand the disposition of OP's and live with them and even forge relations with OP communities. Intermarriage would not even be such a bad thing as some Adamics may feel fondess for a particular OP soul pool, especially in a society where the Adamic could travel and associate with other Adamics to keep a balance. In this way there could be a gentle influnece from Adamics to OP's.

The real problem is another influence coming in throwing a monkey wrench in the works of natural evolution. When this influence pushes hard and aggressively OP neurology is especially vulnerable to the psychic stresses. Psychotic collapse, in my view, occures when influences incompatible with the natural OP structure force themselves upon it doing what may amount to irreperable damage to the individual.

It may also be that these energies mutate the genetics of the psychotic over time, so that the influence is generational.

Regarding the OP soul pool, perhaps at the mammilian stage we may call it a soul pool proper, having the same energies as an individual soul diffused over a group. The lower evolutionary patterns, however, may not really be soul pools, but vestiges of fragmented soul energies or imprints as I read somewhere in the C's material.

It's true that the throat center is connected with the brain stem, and the reptilian operating system is an evolutionary elaboration of more primitive ganglia, while higher brain centers are completely new formations over it, forming the proverbial "triune brain". There is a corresponding theory about this as well.

Here is a simple and revealing link about this:

http://www.psycheducation.org/emotion/triune%20brain.htm

Neurologically speaking, therefore, center dominance may be related to brain layer dominance, with the psychopath forming dissociated layers, and the Adamic a unified structure.

 

[vinny]

Empathy is fostered in the victim through the expression of quite visible affects... The presenation of tearfulness, sadness, longing, fear, remorse, and guilt, may induce in the "helper" a strong sense of compassion, while unconsciously enhancing the "helper's" narcissistic investment in self as the embodiment of goodness.

The psychopathic expresssion of such simulated affects may be quite compelling to the observer and difficult to distinguish from deeply cathected emotion.

It can usually be identified by two events, however:

First, the clinical observer who has analyzed his/her own narcissistic roots and is aware of his/her own potential for being "emotionally hooked," will be able to remain cool and unaffected by such emotional outpourings by the psychopath. As a result of this unaffected, cool, attitude, the Second event will occur: The psychopath will recompensate much too quickly following such an affective expression leaving the clinical observer with the impression that "the play has ended, the curtain has fallen," and the imposture, for the moment, has finished.

The psychopath, in brief, has no capacity for empathy, but has an exquisite capacity for simulation and imitation of others self-concepts (narcissistic investments).

Now, regarding Meloy's description of the two events above, being cool and unaffected because you have a good idea that you are being "played," leading to the rapid recompensation, I experienced this in a rather dramatic way
<snip>
When the woman really grokked that I wasn't going to fall into this trap, she TURNED ON A DIME. Tears, sad face, misery, vanished in an INSTANT. I actually felt dizzy and disoriented by it, it was so fast! I also have to mention that, because I had been observing the individual for a period, as she played these games repeatedly with others, that while she was trying this maneuver on me, I felt only mild pity and revulsion.

Now, certainly, anyone observing this interaction from the outside would have thought that I was being cold and cruel, but I bet that if they had been paying close attention, they would have been exactly as disoriented by the "turning off" of the tears and the ending of the drama as I was. After all, I was only operating with theoretical knowledege. At the moment, I didn't see any other options because all the attempts to cure the individual by sympathy and empathy had been tried by numerous other people, some of them putting YEARS of work into the project. So far, nobody had tried just calling her on it to her face. So, I did it.

Damnedest thing I ever saw.

Sorry to hark back to earlier in the thread, but I had to comment on this, as it is oh so familiar in dealings I've had over the years with a certain person. Here's an example that happened to me over Christmas, and in this case the person switched not once, but TWICE in quick succession. it was bewildering and quite difficult to keep up with! but was VERY interesting to watch, as I was in the middle of reading Cleckley's "mask of sanity" at the time.

trying to cut out all the superfluous details, lets call the person X. I was organising a long journey to meet X, that I absolutely HAD to make, as a direct consequence of the actions of X. Rather than driving, I had decided to take the train because basically I was suffering from exhaustion, and barely coping. So, I would need a pickup from the station, which was 5 minutes drive from X's house.

So I left a message to ask for a lift from the station. I got a phone call from X, who was quite upset and emotional, because her step-daughter was giving her a hard time at the moment, and required a lot of attention, which would make it difficult for her to pick me up at the time, which corresponded to the step-daughter's bedtime. (I was ready for this!) I didn't get drawn into it, knowing that the girl's father was there and perfectly able to deal with her for the ten minutes X would be out of the house. Immediately it became clear that I wasn't going to 'volunteer' not to be picked up, the tears and upset VANISHED into thin air! Just like you said, Laura, she TURNED ON A DIME!

Then she started up (without even pausing for breath!), in a very concerned voice about how I need to be careful with my money, and that she was completely mystified as to why I would be taking the more expensive option of the train and not the car. She insisted on this point even when I told her why I wasn't able to drive.
"not really", I said, "once you take mileage into account - car wear and tear, on TOP of the petrol, the cost works out about the same".
and then AGAIN she instantly changed, lost that concern, and got very angry, that I wasn't taking her position and cut the conversation short and hung up!

Epilogue: That wasn't the end of it, she later contacted me to say, that it would be impossible to pick me up, because she would be having hydro-therapy on that day (sunday!) because the treatment was not available on any other day. (on a sunday?). Then when I sent her a detailed email back, clearly laying everything out, showing her obligations, and that in future we needed to communicate 'accountably' with emails/letters, she CANCELLED her email account, and refused to communicate with me except via a (particularly unsuitable) third party.

In the end, I got a taxi from the station

 

[Mr. Premise]

I enjoy reading her emails. Like you say, because she is so coherent, and patient, really, with those of us she thinks don't understand, she gives the perfect example of the limitations of the YCYOR (You Create Your Own Reality) point of view.

Thanks for sharing them. It's been said before, but that point of view is probably THE major way for the PTB to vector the New Age Movement into something completely harmless to the PTB's plans.

It's a shame, because the YCYOR beliefs neutralize precisely those people who question reality and are "seekers." But, as you say in Secret History, usually what people like that (and I have done my share of this on occasion) are seeking are peak experiences for their own self. They can justify it if they are well-meaning by some belief that if enough people achieve those peak experiences, the world will be "saved" somehow.

Very similar in many ways to the Christian fundamentalists and penecostalists with their focus on Jesus as their "personal" savior and developing a "personal" relationship with him.

[Well, speak of the Devil... In this morning's email what should arrive??? A long missive from a one-time, short time, member of casschat who did not have a very good experience there whom some of you may recall. After she had worn just about everybody on casschat out with her amazing persistance in attempting to impose her view of reality on everyone else, I thought I would give it a try. As you might guess, it was exactly as productive as trying to communicate with Durand though this person is a lot more coherent.

 

[anart]

I keep thinking that psychopaths are NOT failed OPs - because OPs seem to have a base emotional capacity, however small it is. It all clicked in with this:


Laura wrote: So the "rudimentary emotional center" of the OP could simply be this connection to the taxon: mammalia.

This makes perfect sense to me at the moment. There is a colder feeling or taste to a psychopath, just like there is a colder feeling from a snake than there is from a bunny (if that makes any sense at all). I kept reading, 'failed OPs' and it kept hitting me wrong, because the psychopath, the essential psychopath, is DIFFERENT from the run of the mill OP - not only in their outward behavior, but in their basic essense. It really makes sense that they could be directly connected to a reptilian soul pool as opposed to a mammalian one, or even an avian one. I think this is a simplification on some level, but it is also a very real clue to what is going on with them. Hopefully this makes some sort of sense; I'm a bit non-verbal this morning, so the right words keep hiding from me.

a

 

[Laura]

That said, I mentioned in a former comment that I do not believe that OP's have less centers than Adamics. As views are going through constant reorientation, however, what I do agree with is that the above mentioned centers of OP's are dominant, and in fact they dominate and use the other centers. I have met psychos with dominant third eyes, in fact trying to use third eye energies to control others. However, the third eye energies were manipulated by the lower intellect and in service to it.

Well, since we are trying to find a new way of talking about these things, maybe what you are thinking about could better be defined as ... well, what? If we use "psychopath" for "failed OPs" - as in only having soul pool connections and "ghost" higher centers, then what shall we use for a psychopath-like individual who clearly has the higher centers, but all "black" as Mouravieff would say.

Actually, Mouravieff has a word for this type of being: the Chimera which he says is "an impossible being possessing a motor centre and an intellectual centre, but lacking an emotional centre."

The original esoteric significance of this monster has been lost, although its symbolic meaning is known and its name has passed into current language: by chimera we mean a false idea or a vain imagining. A chimeric mind sustains itself on illusions, and a chimeric project collapses when tested against facts, being groundless or unrealizable.

Let us try to rediscover the esoteric significance of the Chimera, hidden in Myth by initiatory tradition. We know that all beings in Nature are divided into three categories depending on the number of centres in their psyche. The first category is of beings having a psyche of only one centre: obviously the motor centre. Beings belonging to the second category have two centres: motor and emotional. Lastly, as beings possessing three centres, humans alone have a motor centre, an emotional centre, and an intellectual centre.

The fabulous Chimera is an animal of a higher type; with its lion's head and the body of a goat, it incontestably ranks in the second category, that of beings possessing two centres in the psyche, If it was a living being, because of this fact it would have motor and emotional centres. It does actually have two centres in the psyche, but these are the motor and the intellectual. Thus it can only have an unreal existence, chimeric in the true meaning of that word, as no bi-centred beings exist in Nature other than those with motor and emotional centres.

For what reason was this monster introduced into the Mythology of remote Antiquity which goes back to the very sources of Initiation? ...

If we had wanted to draw this diagram in zoomorphic form, we would logically have done so by using the Chimera: the head of a lion, the body of a goat, and the tail of a dragon. This is a chimerical being, vomiting vortexes of flame and fire on every occasion, in his march towards death, a man whose psyche is formed in this way can in fact, like the Chimera, lay claim to the paternity of Typhon, the principle of evil and esoteric sterility. ...

As for the motor centre, in the case that concerns us this works at full capacity. Responsible for the natural instinctive and motor functions that ensure the life of the organism and the movements of the body, it has always been the object of special training: military, sporting, artistic etc. But in addition, because of the [lack of emotional center], for good or ill the motor centre also replaces it in its functions. The motor centre replaces the positive tenderness of affection by the passionate tenderness of sensations dominated by a spirit of possession. In this domain too, the life of [such a man] is then lowered to the level of that of an animal.

All this allows us to better understand the structure of [such a] man's Personality, which is then ... reduced to bicentrism, the very characteristic of the chimera: a lion's head to represent intelligence and an animal's body with the tail of a dragon to symbolize passions deprived of all feeling. The fire and flames vomited from its mouth are the fire of discord and the flame of intellectualized passions stimulated by usurped sexual energy.

Psychologically, this means that [such a man is] governed only by intellectual and instinctive-motor considerations. This human type - the chimeric - is often found among the cultured classes of our time. It can produce people of great intellectual ability, but since intelligence is agnostic by nature and they are not oriented by the compass of the emotional centre, such people become amoral. For them everything is permissible except what is forbidden: or rather, what is not punishable.

When man of this psychological type feels the need for relaxation-which is legitimate in itself - he falls under sway of his bodily instincts. His 'I of the body then takes the place of the "I" of the unbalanced Personality. However, the 'I' of the body only has the use of the motor centre, which is equally mutilated. Since this is reduced to four sectors instead of six it too is deprived of a compass. Man then turns towards 'small pleasures' or grand passions' in which he satisfies all his senses, driven by an inventive intellectual imagination while the two centres, motor and intellectual, are fed by energy stolen from the sexual centre. ...

If we have given this whole chapter to this analysis it is because the phenomenon it reveals is much more frequent than one would believe. True, we have discussed an extreme case so that it is more clearly impressed on the reader's mind; but there exist other cases that are less extreme and more subtle.

Mouravieff goes off on his own theorizing (where I have inserted the three dots) without having a clue that he has just described a psychopath.

Keep in mind that I'm not talking about the blatantly anti-social type at all though psychopaths do, regularly and repeatedly and predicatbly, commit anti-social acts. They aren't always illegal. Now, there is another type that Mouravieff discusses that seems to fit what you have described above exactly.

The case we are to study is that of a man I whose highly developed motor centre entirely dominates his emotional centre. In this type of man the latter is awake and even quite developed, but it is under the sway of the motor centre and as a result it is richly nourished by usurped sexual energy.

As in the fourth case, the intellectual centre is not entirely asleep: the negative part of this centre is paralysed but the positive part is completely under the domination of the motor centre. That is why this type of man
feels no doubt. This fact provides him with extraordinary strength and endows his psyche with a suggestive, hypnotic dynamism.

This type of man includes fakirs, sorcerers, magicians: volkhvy in Slavonic. Though unbalanced in its development, this Personality has lost all its anarchistic characteristics: it is subjected to an iron discipline exercised by the motor centre in the place of the magnetic centre, with the 'I' of the body predominant. This kind of man can acquire certain powers, but their nature differs from that of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which interior men acquire.

A magician's power - that of a Cagliostro, Rasputin and their like - is based, as we said, on excessive development of the motor centre, which dominates the other two. The working of the intellectual centre is reduced towhat is strictly necessary to ensure vital needs and to elaborate projects; its negative part is smothered, and this is what leads to the absence of doubt. The emotional centre is not only not smothered but is rather well developed. However, this development is unbalanced, as it is not the result of correct discernment of [creative] from [entropic] influences, but of the accumulation of those of the latter whose action, although different in quality, lies parallel to the [creative] influences.

Lastly, an overgrowth on the psyche is formed on the right side of the emotional centre of this type of man 1, which shows all the characteristics of an impure or black magnetic centre. While the magnetic centre formed of [creative] influences is a subsidiary organ enabling esoteric development, this black magnetic centre formed by [entropic] influences can clearly not be oriented towards esoteric goals.

Shaped by [entropic] influences whose action runs parallel to the [creative] influences, the orientation of this black magnetic centre is automatically directed towards objectives limited to within the perimeter of exterior life. These objectives are well known; money, women, and power in all their forms.

Evidently the black magnetic centre, instead of sending man forward towards the second Birth and so towards the union of his Personality with his [higher centers], emphasizes and crystallizes the 'I' of the Personality and inspires it with the strength it needs to impose itself on other Personalities who are in an unstable inner state.

It is important to know that this human type exists, especially for those who have an inclination for esoteric research and who begin by looking for the 'marvellous.' While awaiting an encounter with a guide, their Personality is wide open to the influences emanating from this type of man, and they may easily fall under his sway.

Besides giving birth to magicians, this type of man gives rise to false prophets, false Christs, and even the Antichrist.

It is curious to see how much these false prophets, magicians and "christs", impressed themselves on the imagination of the men - and even more of the women of the past. It is the same today.

For there is a type of human being who declines all moral responsibility for himself or for those to whom he is in duty bound. One comes across this type quite often, always trying to find someone else to shoulder his responsibilities as long as this someone else possesses some kind of authority, earned or otherwise. These people are open to any form of hypnotic suggestion and practically ask to be hypnotized. They are of good faith, but they search for the 'marvellous' because they are too weak or too lazy to undertake esoteric work successfully.

And the Wolves devour them finding justification in the fact that they are only the 'scourings of humanity.'

But this is not true; for 'scourings' who are converted can become key figures on the esoteric chess-board.

Mental apathy and emotional inertia are responsible for tipping man down the slope of least resistance even when armed with the best intentions, especially if he justifies himself for his human frailties by finding them normal, particularly on the sexual plane.

The error of conception committed in this case lies in the fact that an important esoteric rule has been overlooked: that it is imperative for the seeker to be constantly active. He must always keep the initiative, beginning with the search for and choice of a guide and later in the work he accomplishes under the latter's guidance.

In a word, when participating in this work, he must be a subject, and not an object.

This is a necessary condition for this kind of work. If it is not sufficient to provide the whole effort the neophyte must accomplish in his search on the Way, it is always enough to allow him to escape from the claws of the Wolves. Initiative, vigilance, a critical mind, observation and discernment ... these different aspects of the seeker's active state, are diametrically opposed to the passive drowsiness of one who plunges head down into the jaws of the 'wolf' full of condescending compassion towards sceptics because: thus spake Zarathustra.

Now, the distinction Mouravieff has made is that this second type DOES have the emotional center which the psychopathic type does not have. And that means that such a type is quite different - and maybe even scarier - than the garden variety psychopath.

I also think that such individuals need to constantly "feed" on creative people so as to fuel their activities.

The same individuals were usually cold and quite intellectual, very dissociated from their lower centers. Many treated their bodies like machines they simply had to keep tuned and oiled so they would not break down on them. These people had a strong visionary sense, and the ability to project thoughts, but it was all delusional. Some of these even professed to channel or be actual incarnations of dubious cosmic "entities".

Others were more connected to the lower centers, and used emotional energy as a weapon projecting anger or fear out of their bodies to get their way. They seemed to be able to generate emotion, and could experience it, but it was a means to an end. All in all it seemed not only as if it was a reptile soul in a mammilian body, but in some cases the soul of a spider, a wasp, a centipede or even a leech.

There were people were I felt the real soul was a leech embedded in the reptilian operating system manipulating the mammilian structures to pose as human. Such a state of affairs would be incompatible even with OP genetics because of the vast evolutionary gap, and if an Adamic was attacked to the extent of being infected by a centipede soul pool, for example, the individualized genetic matrix would focus the primitive pattern into a highly individualized focus so the individual would percieve itself as a centipede avatar, a scorpion avatar or what have you. There are black magicians who have tendencies of identifying with venomous vermin.

In the movie "The Fly" the character under transformation said something to the effect of what would a human be like with the morals of a fly. Pretty much insane by human standards.

Now some of this really gave me the heebie jeebies. I don't know if you listened to the podcast where I played the tape of the woman who had an experience in an "alternate dimension" or whatever where she was a "preying mantis." I later asked the C's about this and what they said made the hair on the back of my neck stand up:

10 Dec 1994
Q: (L) What or who were the beings seen by D__ M__ in her hypnotic regression the other night?

A: Her essence.

Q: (L) Were these in any way physical beings on the earth we occupy in space/time from where we are at this moment?

A: No.

Q: (L) This happened in a so-called alternate reality?

A: Is still.

Q: (L) So, in some alternate reality, D__ is a preying mantis being eating little children?

A: And so are you. And all others.

Q: (L) This is an essence of what?

A: Her being.

I guess if we are all a "smorgasbord" of DNA, we have "essence connections" to all kinds of critters. It probably depends on which ones we identify with, choose, manifest, or whatever.

 

[kenlee]

Mel said:

Remember that the law of the Universe is that we
attract what we focus on. If you are focused on
fearing whatever may come, you are sending a strong
message to the Universe to send you whatever you fear.
Instead if you can get yourself into feelings of joy,
love, appreciation or gratitude, and focus on bringing
more of that into your life, you are going to avoid
the negative stuff automatically

This is where Mel confuses wishful thinking with objective reality. She appears to be in a delusion concerning certain aspects of reality. If someone is being attacked by a crazed wolf then what should they focus on? Do they just ignore the fear and not focus on it? That won't make it go away. Suppose their fear is so overpowering and so inhibiting that it prevents them from taking the appropriate measures to protect themselves? Do they ignore this fear so as not to send a "strong message to the Universe to send you whatever you fear?"

The fact is, one is experiencing the fear NOW, because that wolf is attacking NOW. So what is to be done with the present fear now? You can't fuggedabouit!

We may be able to take a passive attitude so as to not identify with certain distractive internal thoughts and/or other internal/external distractions but if a strong fear is distracting us we cannot simply take a passive attitude. We must CONFRONT fear, face it actively, and sometimes even with brutal aggression (only if absolutely necessary).
Passivity in the face of fear will just allow the wolf to have its way. A passive attitude towards fear, especially in severe conditions, could put one's very survival at stake, including one's own family and friends. Fear must be faced and confronted while one is experiencing it and not "bypassed" with thoughts of joy and love and light.

Clearly Mel is out of touch with reality here, almost as if she is under the influence of some opiate or some self induced hypnotic drug. The reality of the SPECIFIC situation and its context appears to not be part of her personal equation. She may have, at some point, felt "in her bones" the terror of the situation but evidently she could not absorb the impact and she is running away from confronting reality by hiding within her dreams, just like the rest of the United States population.

 

[anart]

Such a state of affairs would be incompatible even with OP genetics because of the vast evolutionary gap,

Are you speaking of classic evolution here? (i.e. primate to human?). If you are, and you may not be, I think it's an assumption that there would be a vast evolutionary gap -it seems as if you are applying a linearity here that may not, in fact exist (with the unlimited number of possible universes and developments of creatures tall and small). I definitely grok what you're saying overall, and there is much there to work with, it's just that the flow of thought seemed to 'snag' for me at this evolutionary comment. There is just so much we don't know - of course, I could be out in left field on this one.

 

[Quantuum_Reality]

A few thoughts come to mind when reading this thread-

If (and that is an "if") 4D STS's plan is to attempt to lock 3D reality in the next "short cycle" into a cycle of a consistent, every ready food cycle with minimal energy expenditure, can the classifications discussed on this thread be categorized by their level of usefulness to 4D STS ?
If 4D STS is attempting to prepare the next cycle for their habitation, would not "now" be the time that we are able to distinguish levels of preparedness for soul migration from 4D to 3D? If vibrational frequency and genetics for "holding" a soul pattern are requirements for a third density reality, then it seems to me that 4D STS's focus would be to manipulate bloodlines, etc to prepare bodies for "holding" a pattern of energy that allows them to descend intact.

It seems to me that one of the most confusing aspects of all of the material presented by Laura and QFS is my lack of understanding about "why" a 4D being would work so hard toward descension. Okay- beyond confusing- I intellectually can "understand"- choice, free will, balance, creation versus entropy...and I still find myself repelled by that path and it colors all, as my perspective and perception are constantly at war with their perceived intent.

Having met and interacted with individuals, like many here, who "plug in" and drain, the level of awareness on the part of the individual "doing" draining seems to vary. Perhaps the higher the level of awareness, with the additional lack of empathetic action, are those being prepared for the upper echelons of 4D STS- the top of the pyramid, so to speak, for the next short cycle. OP's , whose level of awareness is such that they are easily manipulated, will become the foundation of the next cycle of the food chain.

It seems to me that the energy shared by STO is qualitatively different, in that it is based in Unity. Unity necessitates empathy. Empathetic action does not, however, always necessitate Unity. Deeply psychopathic individuals have the capacity to mirror the actions of empathy- if not the beingness of empathy. An individual highly skilled in those actions can, and in my experience do, undermine Unity. When this is done, it seems to me that the energy qualitatively changes to allow it to be used by STS.

It seems to me that Adamic man is drawn to those souls who are in the process of ascending, those moving from 1D to 2D and 2D to 3D, and in some cases such as with Laura and QFS among others, from 3D to 4D.

Being able to discern not only the type of non human (and their usefulness to 4D STS), but how energy can be caused to degenerate for use in feeding, as well as the level of risk presented by any given group, may assist us in strengthening a bond in Unity.

Cheryl

 

[Laura]

The fact is, one is experiencing the fear NOW, because that wolf is attacking NOW. So what is to be done with the present fear now? You can't fuggedabouit!

This is the key to why "focusing on the positive" never works. It is also why hypnosis to eliminate habits rarely works. The subconscious mind is an accurate observer. It is in charge of the "belief centers." If you hypnotize someone and tell them that they are NOT going to want to smoke, that it will repel them, that it is nasty, dirty, disgusting, etc... and give them all kinds of little doodads to work with, like affirmations and so on, it will, in the end, either not work at all, backfire by making the craving for cigarettes even stronger, or worse, initiate an even more damaging behavior.

Why? Because the subconscious mind only knows NOW. It has no concept of the future. The subconscious mind is always very obliging - giving us exactly what we think. If we think "I am going to concentrate on the positive so that the future will be better, the subconscious will read: "the NOW is terrible" and the subconscious will help that person to create situations that fulfill that reality. Because, of course, when you say "I must focus on the positive," what you are telling your subconscious (which is also observing) is that the present sucks. So as you continue to try to do this, you will move from one present that sucks to the next, to the next. All the while, you will keep hypnotizing yourself to believe, against all evidence, that you are "feeling better." In a sense, you WILL feel better, exactly like an alcoholic that goes on a binge. Eventually, he has to sober up and finds out that all the problems he drank to escape are still there, only worse.

In the same way, if confronted with a wolf, now, you decide to take care of the wolf situation, then you have assured a wolf-free future.

We try to constantly keep the attitude that the Universe is perfect and it knows what it is doing. It also "created us" as debugging units and we are perfect in doing our "debugging work."

 

[Mike]

I'm not sure that this is an accurate representation. My thought is that there needs to be two separate Bell Curve graphs, one for Potentially Souled beings and another for Organic Portals with Creation and Entropy being at either end. I don't think you can even put them on the same graph because the fundamental criteria are so different.

My opinion is that two graphs are necessary. One for souled individuals (50%) and one for non-souled (OP and psychopath - the failed OP) (50%). I would then orient the graph for Souled where the X axis represents on the positive side STO and the negative side STS and where some arbitrary point is picked on each side as the furthest possible range (graduation to 4D). Then the Y axis would represent the number of individuals at each stage to each path. The resulting graph might still be a bell curve, but the current state of affairs seems to indicate that the larger portion of individuals (main hump of the bell curve) would be in the STS area. Another thought is that the graphs image might be like this \ only flatter, but when I think about it doesn't seem right. I'm still thinking about the OP/psychopath graph - I think it might be similar to the souled graph but even more pronounced in the STS orientation.

Q: (L) There was a discussion the other day and it made me curious. It seems that some people simply do not have the capacity to understand certain concepts. Is this a function of vibrational frequency?
A: That is not quite hitting at the subject matter in the way in which you desire to answer the question. In other words, it is a parallel understanding pattern. It is not vibrational frequency that determines ability to conceive of any particular notion. Vibrational frequency involves the groove, or pattern, that one has chosen in general terms. But, to give you an example, there are those who are of very LOW, as you would measure, vibrational frequency, who are able to conceive of extremely complicated issues and have also discovered extremely precise, complicated, and intricate answers to very complex notions and problems from your standpoint in the illusion. But, the frequency vibrational level has more to do with the emotional path that leads either to Service to Self at its greatest possible expression, or Service to others at its greatest possible expression, not with intellectual capacity. So it is possible for a completely STS individual at any density level to be completely cognizant of all existence, just as it is possible for a completely STO individual to be completely cognizant of all existence. It has nothing to do with vibrational frequency because that is the emotional pathway.

The question I have is what is the difference in the path for the STO candidate and the STS candidate to transition to 4D. The group that can transition to 4D, does it have to be a souled individual? I would say yes. This seems to rule out the 50 percent of the population that is in the OP/psychopath group.

A: The question needs to be separated. What happens to a souled individual is different from an organic portal unit.
Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well defined that they only differ from one another in the way that different species of trees are different in the overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have souls, where does the energy come from that recharges Organic Portals?
A: The pool you have described.
Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?
A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center which is a higher center of creative energy. During sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the lower intellectual cener and the moving center, transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers. This respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But, more than that, the energy of the sexual center is also more available to the other higher centers.
Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?
A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.

So would an STS oriented souled individual still maintain a connection to the Higher Centers? IMO yes. Perhaps a souled person that chooses STS and is nearing the advancement to 4D STS is the controlling influence over the Psychopathic individual and the OP. They would seem to me to better understand and use the Psychopath and OP to fit whatever plans they have and be able to manipulate the OP/psychpath into creating the Ponerogenic system. Could the Ponerogenic system be the genesis of the 3D STS Powers That Be in conjunction with 4D STS. They would be able to control this process to fit their aims, since they wouldn't have any restriction from using people. Think of the think tanking of Political Ponerology.

Some quotes below that stuck out to me:

Ryan: Yes, the question of "souled" 4D STS candidates and their relation to psychopathy is still a big "grey" area (pun intended).

(Added in edit) Laura: So since C's have said that this planet was taken over by STS (and that seems pretty obvious based on observation), the likelihood of advancement for the Organic Portal is slim to none.

(Added in edit) hkoeli: I see Adamic humanity as having the potential either for STO or STS. That means that a being that advances to 4D STS has the complete potential of higher centers, but consciously chooses to pervert them, to stifle his/her conscience. The psychopath has NO choice.

hkoeli wrote: In other words, the souled-psychopath seems even MORE terrifying. It HAS a conscience and USES its energy to become more entropic.

Laura: I wonder if it might not be better to use a different term for the "souled psychopath?" Maybe part of the problem of studying such things is that the science of psychology isn't looking at it from the proper perspective so that taxonomic categories can be more fully explicated? I'm reading all these stacks of books by the "experts" on the subject, and it is pretty clear that there is some serious confusion there. If, as the C's said, a psychopath is a "failed Organic Portal," then there is no soul so we can't talk about a "souled psychopath." But I DO know what you mean here, but this point needs some thought.

Ryan: I'm not sure. I think 4D STS graduation is likely connected to a sort of "dark esotericism" (what we might colloquially call "black magic"), but I don't know the specifics. The Ra material has more information on the "harvest"..

Quantuum_Reality: Having met and interacted with individuals, like many here, who "plug in" and drain, the level of awareness on the part of the individual "doing" draining seems to vary. Perhaps the higher the level of awareness, with the additional lack of empathetic action, are those being prepared for the upper echelons of 4D STS- the top of the pyramid, so to speak, for the next short cycle.

Laura: Well, of course, there was also the evil machinations of the PTB behind the scenes, and that is also present today.

Ruth: My present feeling is that a person is either one or the other, but not both. But that both groups, OPs and those with higher chakras, can produce people who's behaviour is psychopathic. From the OP group it is simply because they simply lack the awareness and the means to realise what they are doing. From the group with higher centers must be a deliberate choice to 'go bad'.

Q: (L) I would say that the chief thing they are saying is that the really good ones - you could never tell except by long observation. The one key we discovered from studying psychopaths was that their actions do not match their words. But what if that is a symptom of just being weak and having no will? (A) How can I know if I have a soul?
A: Do you ever hurt for another?
Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.
A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are simply to retain control.

What about a souled individual that chooses entropy and STS - what do they feel? Do they retain their soul? Is this empathy only for a STO souled individual? I think of a souled STS person to be the person that believes that their intent and actions are for 'good' or they have convinced themselves of this and their actions actually serve 4D STS. They live in the illusion where they talk and think that their actions are to help others, but serve 4D and not others.

Q: (L) Okay, now we have a couple of questions we want to get to here. You said before that OP's were originally intended as a bridge between second and third densities and that they were used. Is Mouravieff right about the potential for OP's to advance being dependent upon souled beings advancement to STO at the end of this cycle?
A: Not exactly. A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.

IMO this is referring to if this planet/reality was under the direct influence of 4D STO (like before the fall). We are under the influence/control of 4D STS, so the OP's development to "grow" a soul seems to be stunted.

kenlee: I think, the OP wants to ‘do good’ but they are by nature amoral and can only seek to have good and evil defined for them since they do not have the innate moral capacity to define it for themselves. Then you have the ‘failed OP’s, who if they have the power, can and will define it for them.

Darren On a graph of Organic Portal soul development, this would put psychopathy at one end with OP's who have formed some sort of individualised soul imprint at the other. So, by virtue of an STS environment the psychopath and 4D STS candiate, although at opposite ends of the spectrum in one sense, would be essentially similiar in their "qualities".

EsoQuest An individualized human going down an entropic path would have to at least repress or deny their soul essence, but it is hard to imagine losing it completely and permanently.

I don't know if a souled person who was deeply rooted in STS would loose their soul essence. Perhaps that is their right path. So what is the difference between an 4D STS candidate and a psychopath and/or OP? Seems to me to be Choice. Psychopaths and OPs don't seem to have the choice that a souled person has. The psychopath in my mind no matter what environment (STO or STS oriented) would act the same. The OP seems to mimic whatever behavior is accepted by society be it STO or STS. In an STS world/country/community the OP would gravitate/mimic the STS orientation.

Along with the pasted quotes this transcript really brought a lot of these thoughts to mind. I don't think many people on the forumn would want to dwell on how the other half works (STS) to graduate, but this seemed to me to stand out after reading the whole thread.

Q: (L) Back to the quorum and illuminati.
A: Quorum mostly alien; illuminati mostly human.
Q: (L) Well, the quorum has been described...
A: Meet; two halves of whole.
Q: (L) Well the quorum seems to be described as being in touch with the Cassiopaeans, that is, yourselves, which you have described as beneficial beings, is this correct?
A: Close.
Q: (L) The illuminati has been described as being behind or with the brotherhood which has been described as being in connection with the Lizard beings...
A: Close. But not that simple.
Q: (L) Well, if the quorum is the good guys and the illuminati is the bad guys, and they both are at the high levels of Freemasonry, what is the story here?
A: Picture a circle or cycle first now then contemplate for a moment before follow up.
Q: (L) Okay, I am contemplating a cycling circle.
A: Now, two halves representing positive and negative. Two halves.
Q: (L) Well, what I am getting out of that is the two halves and both sides are playing with the human race. Is that it?
A: No. This is complicated but if you can learn and understand, it will be a super revelation.
Q: (L) Well, go ahead and explain.
A: Ask step by step.
Q: (L) Why do we so often have to ask things step by step?
A: In order to absorb the information.
Q: (L) The quorum is described as the good guys. The illuminati is described as bad guys. And yet, they are both
Masonic. When a person in the Masonic organization reaches the higher levels, are there individuals at the higher levels recruiting masons to one side or the other?
A: First, not exactly one side or another.
Q: (L) I am beginning to not understand something here because if the Lizzies...
A: Unblock.
Q: (L) I don't have a block here. If the brotherhood AKA illuminati AKA Lizzies AKA beast are the ones who are going to do detrimental things to this planet, how are they related or connected to the quorum which is in touch with...
A: This will take time to explain be patient it will be worth it.
Q: (L) Well, are you going to explain it right now?
A: Ask step by step.
Q: (L) Okay. What is the nature of evil?
A: Blend.
Q: (L) Are the Lizzies what we would consider to be evil?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Are the Cassiopaeans what we would consider to be good?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Yet, do the Cassiopaeans use and manipulate the Lizzies to accomplish certain things?
A: No.
Q: (L) The Lizzies work independently and in opposition to the Cassiopaeans?
A: Independently, not in opposition.
Q: (L) Well then, is there somebody over and above this whole project...
A: We serve others therefore there is no opposition. Careful now. Step by step. If you do not fully understand answer ask another.
Q: (L) Part of a whole. Part of a circle.
A: Blend.
Q: (L) Does this mean...
A: Picture a blending colored circle image.
Q: (L) Are you saying that at some levels the two halves overlap?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Are you saying that some of the Quorum are good guys and bad guys and the same for the Illuminati because the two are on opposing sides of the circle but at the point of blending one is weighted more to one side and the other to the
other side? And these organizations are where the interactions come together?
A: Closer.
Q: (L) Let's leave it for the time being.
A: No. Now please.
Q: (L) Okay. So it is a blending. Does it have something to do with ... in your case service to others means that you even serve those who serve self, is that correct?
A: Yes; we serve you and the Lizards have programmed your race to self service remember.
Q: (L) Well, I am down a notch or two. So, I am still a service to self individual to some extent, is that correct?
A: But moving slowly toward service to others. Not all humans are.
Q: (L) Does this mean that when people who are members of the quorum or illuminati call for information or help, that you, because of your service to others orientation are obliged to answer whoever calls?
A: Yes and no.
Q: (L) What is the no part.
A: If vibrational frequencies are out of pattern we do not connect.
Q: (L) Is the work of the Lizzies part of an overall grand plan or design?
A: All is.
Q: (L) Let's go on. I am depressed because you guys told me I was a bad person.
A: You are not a bad person.
Q: (L) Well, I am feeling pretty crummy right now.
A: Lizzies induced.
Q: (L) You mean my crummy feelings are Lizzie induced?
A: As always.
Q: (L) Well I am feeling crummy because you guys let me know that I am in the same sinking boat as the rest of the poor slobs on this miserable planet. I was working pretty hard to get out of the boat.
A: Silliness; you're in your own boat.
Q: (L) I would like to know where Dr. Usui got the Reiki symbols?
A: Must answer question.
Q: (L) What question? The quorum and illuminati question?
A: You will feel ecstasy once answered.
Q: (L) Okay. A blending. Yet two halves.
A: Of a circle.
Q: (L) Who designed this circle?
A: Natural frequency wave. Some near conjunction blend both service patterns and each "camp" to create perfect balance.
Q: (L) Okay, so the Illuminati are the higher level on the pathway of service to self and somehow, by reaching these higher levels may have come to realizations or frequencies which have caused their position to be modified or blended to where service to self becomes or incorporates or moves them to service to others realizations, is this correct?
A: Continue.
Q: (L) Okay, the ones in the quorum are those who are focused on service to others and they, in their pathway of service to others begin to understand that some service to self is service to others.
A: Close.
Q: (L) And the whole idea is to blend both pathways no matter which direction you come to it from?
A: Service to others provides the perfect balance of those two realities; service to self is the diametrical opposite closing the grand cycle in perfect balance.
Q: (L) So it is necessary to have a pathway of service to self in order for the pathway of service to others to exist?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And those who are in the quorum and the illuminati ...
A: Blends in middle.
Q: (L) So it is necessary to have the darkness in order to have the light...
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And it is necessary to have the Lizzies in order to have the Cassiopaeans...
A: Close.
Q: (L) And both groups evolved through the Masonic organizations..
A: Freemasonry is human reflection in physical of these processes.

 

[Ryan]

I've often associated the OP type with those who get their energy from people and the "souled" from those who gain their energy from their own energy reserves received from "great mother".

I think this looks like you've 'designated' the role of OP to STS and that of "souled" to STO. That probably explains why talking about OPs is such a 'hot' topic. Ie. They are the 'bad' guys because they're STS.

I think Johnno may be referring to this:

Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?
A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center which is a higher center of creative energy. During sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the lower intellectual cener and the moving center, transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers. This respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But, more than that, the energy of the sexual center is also more available to the other higher centers.
Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?
A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.

Something else that I was pondering starts with the previously quoted: "STS tends to drain energy for its own use". It seems to me that Adamics are afforded a sort of potential "resistance" to being drained, in a way that OPs are not. OPs seem to be completely "wide open" in energetic terms - any "soul patterning energy" they acquire from Adamics seems to flow up the "tubes" to 4D STS with no resistance. There is the comment:

Q: Is it true that being in the presence of such people, that one is under the influence of an energy, an emanation from them physically, that befuddles the mind and makes it almost impossible to think ones' way out of the situation?
A: It is the draining of energy that befuddles the mind.
Q: Where does this energy drain to?
A: 4th density STS.
Q: They drain our energy from us and 4th density STS harvests it from them?
A: "They" do nothing!!!! 4th density STS does it all through them!

Consider the reference: ""drain" of the lower centers' interaction"... does this imply that the lower centers are the "weak spots" through which 4D STS - via the OP "proxies" - drain energy from Adamic man's sexual center? And does Adamic man, by dint of being STS, drain his/her own energy in some way through the "Predator's Mind"? Gurdjieff refers to a separation in (Adamic) man of "essence" and "false personality". Does this false personality feed upon the sexual center via the lower centers, like some kind of "internalised OP"? Then there are Gurdjieff's comments on "accumulators". I wonder if what he referred to as the "large accumulator" - the main repository of energy available to the organism - has anything to do with the sexual center?