Osho - A psychopathic cult leader
- Thread starter daco
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What I don't get is why are there so many long-bearded enlightened guys out there? What is it about enlightenment and growing out a beard? Is it analogous to cops growing mustaches to appear more authoritative? And where are all the enlightened women, why is it always long-bearded men? And how come they never seem to network - once "enlightened", all they do is teach and obtain followers.
I wanna see some guy in a t-shirt and jeans with short hair, who is not trying to make an appearance statement, get enlightened for a change. But people don't take you seriously unless you "look the part", and therein lies the dilemma - it's so easy to just look the part!
When someone matches all the pop culture qualifications of looking the part, I get suspect. Imagine if the SOTT team all had long beards, robes, and funny hats? And sure, it's hard to find a razor in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, so someday they just might. But there's a whole section of the population that is only attracted to people who look the part, and it really doesn't help your credibility when you have a bunch of ignorant and naive followers who only hang around because they are impressed by your beard.
I wanna see some guy in a t-shirt and jeans with short hair, who is not trying to make an appearance statement, get enlightened for a change. But people don't take you seriously unless you "look the part", and therein lies the dilemma - it's so easy to just look the part!
When someone matches all the pop culture qualifications of looking the part, I get suspect. Imagine if the SOTT team all had long beards, robes, and funny hats? And sure, it's hard to find a razor in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, so someday they just might. But there's a whole section of the population that is only attracted to people who look the part, and it really doesn't help your credibility when you have a bunch of ignorant and naive followers who only hang around because they are impressed by your beard.
SAO said:
Maybe these situations are part of the learning process. They force us to make an effort to try and "see" past the appearance. If we judge based on appearance the learning process tends to stop. I can't picture Buddha in a t-shirt and jeans. Same goes for the Cs.
SAO said:
jajaja, you make me laugh.
There is Mister Chopra, he has no bear. He is by the way a little crazy, too. He said that he was responsible of the earthquake of Chili because when it happened he was meditating and while meditating he-excuse me the word- farted. So you know, all those clowns multimillionaires are pathetic. I don't understand at all how people can follow them like they were gods.
SAO said:
that supposed to be symbol of detachment from physical things including physical appearance, because in all first 3 ways, one needs to relinquish many of the physical aspects , some cases family relationships.. That's not the case for the 4th way. Now we know how deep the rabbit hole goes at different levels . These bearded guys became acceptable to common man only last 30yrs to 50 yrs, before that no body bothered about them.
Meager1
Dagobah Resident
I watched a couple of the video`s and didn`t care for them.
The man doesn`t blink like a normal human and he sounds out his S`s with a sssssssssssssss..sound, which is just creepy!
It wasn`t comfortable to watch, or listen to, and my impression was that this person is not "what" is being observed, .which of course is only my own subjective opinion.
The man doesn`t blink like a normal human and he sounds out his S`s with a sssssssssssssss..sound, which is just creepy!
It wasn`t comfortable to watch, or listen to, and my impression was that this person is not "what" is being observed, .which of course is only my own subjective opinion.
realitybugll
Jedi Council Member
Osho wrote a book, and lectured in length, on Gurdjieff and the work. He passed himself off as an authority on gurdjieff--perhaps to attract followers) but I would be surprised if anyone bought this... though some probably did.
you can almost find humor in his very stupid conclusions on gurdjieff's life and the work. The more annoying part is his direct misquoting of gurdjieff, and making up of events in gudjieff's life that never happened.
here is an example...
This we know for a fact is a complete lie because the de Hartmann's wrote a book on their time with Gurdjieff, which goes into detail on why they left Gurdjieff. There is many other parts that it is known lies, and other parts it is probably lies but can't be confirmed.
So I don't know how anyone could respect a man like Osho knowing this.
complete lies... in other parts he takes events from Gurdjieff's autobiography and distorts them to come up with his own narrative. it's completely ridiculous to me.
you can almost find humor in his very stupid conclusions on gurdjieff's life and the work. The more annoying part is his direct misquoting of gurdjieff, and making up of events in gudjieff's life that never happened.
here is an example...
This we know for a fact is a complete lie because the de Hartmann's wrote a book on their time with Gurdjieff, which goes into detail on why they left Gurdjieff. There is many other parts that it is known lies, and other parts it is probably lies but can't be confirmed.
So I don't know how anyone could respect a man like Osho knowing this.
complete lies... in other parts he takes events from Gurdjieff's autobiography and distorts them to come up with his own narrative. it's completely ridiculous to me.
maxim.m
Padawan Learner
SAO said:
The whole idea of enlightment is very popularized. But the way it is done it is focused on conception of some miracles or some almost unreachable states adepts going to reach.
There is almost nothing about knowledge in it. "No-mind state" is popularized as state "you have to stop thinking at all". And I even believe that is method to mislead those who has potential.
Most of methods of enlightment uses methods working with internal enegry, kundalini, etc to setup flow in internal body and this way to change mind, when kundalini reaches adjna or crown charka. Most of adepts follow this way and only small percent of them reaches the goal. Others with some will and control of energy can reach some states without changing mind and when they stop their practice they lose all their power.
There are other methods which tends to change mind and this way to remove internal blocks or breaks in body to clear flow through body. This methods based on knowledge and how it changes mind and body.
I personally followed latter way with some recomendation from ra/cass to balance body/mind and spirit.
Osho was a philosophy professor and a sales man. Nothing more.
He had a particular knack for reading up on many topics and repackaging it for the gullible and he somehow struck the nerve of his time, thus his rise to fame.
It just surprises me that when he came to the West, nobody seemed to mind the fact that he was trying to cash in on hundreds of thousands of followers, something that should be a big fat red sign for any seeker. He didn't ever seem to affect real change in his followers too, which should be another bad sign.
His own behaviour was erratic and full of sex stories and drug abuse, which is an even more telling sign. Why would you want to learn anything from someone who clearly can't objectively observe himself?
How people can even take him seriously is beyond me.
He had a particular knack for reading up on many topics and repackaging it for the gullible and he somehow struck the nerve of his time, thus his rise to fame.
It just surprises me that when he came to the West, nobody seemed to mind the fact that he was trying to cash in on hundreds of thousands of followers, something that should be a big fat red sign for any seeker. He didn't ever seem to affect real change in his followers too, which should be another bad sign.
His own behaviour was erratic and full of sex stories and drug abuse, which is an even more telling sign. Why would you want to learn anything from someone who clearly can't objectively observe himself?
How people can even take him seriously is beyond me.
not to mention his seat wich seems to be especially disigned for this "holy man" to sit on on every video I saw thus far from him.
and the wristwatches on his right arm who change in every video and seem to be quite expensive and his deliberate slow and deep speech patterns as well as his slow body motions while he is talking to give the impression that he really has something "holy" to tell......
and the wristwatches on his right arm who change in every video and seem to be quite expensive and his deliberate slow and deep speech patterns as well as his slow body motions while he is talking to give the impression that he really has something "holy" to tell......
Well, he had the guts of pulling these methods from the Vijñānabhairava Tantra without actually studying with a living practitioner or even studying the source philosophy of Kashmir Shaivism itself. To make it even more outrageous, he based his commentary(repackaged as the "Book of Secrets"
)on a loose English translation by Paul Reps which is called Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. Notice how the latter repackaged it in the Zen format, which the avarage American of his time would easily buy into. Some people like you are bound to find something useful in there, but I think it does more harm than good for people, since most don't have that sense of what suits them best and just pick something and complain later. Even if something works for you, guys like Reps/Osho have done a great job of messing up the potential of what could have been gotten out of the practice, if followed through to completion, through sheer ignorance of what they claim authority on.
You answered yourself, in part. These things came from societies that have been deeply patriarchal since thousands of years, and the characteristic long beard and excessive drawn out voice and usage of sayings is just there to claim authority. Women didn't have much of a chance in these societies. There were/are yoginis(female yogis) in pretty much all of the Asian traditions, from Kriya Yoga to Ati Yoga in Dzogchen, but this only worked on the outskirts of society. Some did network and check their perceived enlightenment against others, but this has happened in the classical traditions which have excessively high standards on whom is enlightened or not. When the 60's and 70's Guru Fever came, save for a few scholars, practically noone had an idea of what the standard for enlightenment was so everything irrational was accepted as such. So anything goes, even today. This has sadly spread to many Asiatic societies now as well, where anyone with even the faintest abilitiy of critical thinking or knowledge of scriptures can only shake their head at what certain people in key positions claim themselves to be. If you're a conman using the "exotic spiritual path" as the venue of choice, you are naturally interested in obtaining as many followers as possible and collectively deluding/exploiting them for your own gain. Standard psychopathic behaviour.
Easy- They just need to choose an area many people don't know so well so that they can bank on the naivete of those who fall for them. Then they just need to find ways to bypass your criticial thinking. Voilà, another follower. The more I examine what I assume to be reality, the more pain and anger I feel at just how easy this whole "operation" is for those behind the scenes.
Poor Buddhists. Bears just don't like them. But I have seen many elder Buddhists with long bear(d)s and some on yogic retreats with the classical long dreadlocks coiled up above their heads. The former is a sign of authority, the latter of virility and yogic endeavour. I think the common perception of these sects is still formed by Victorian British imaginations and perceptions of Theravadin yogis in Sri Lanka, Burma and Thailand, thus the perception of the detached shaved yogi, which corresponds more with the Jain sects.
They're only treated like deities due to local customs. If they're gone, there will be all the bad talk behind the back as with everyone else.
Sometimes I think he wrote a deluded commentary or speech on pretty much everything on this planet, just to appear as wise when any investigation would immediately reveal his profound ignorance of the subjects he talked about.
That's the result of misperception of Ch'an and later Zen in the United States. The Zen as it is known in the West, especially in the USA, could be said to be a complete 20th century fabrication. It appealed to lazy people and those looking for the irrational that seemed to be missing from their lives(hippies, counter-culture). Has it anything to do with the real training methods or the scriptures backing them? Nope.
"you have to stop thinking at all" was never a formal meditation method, but here in the West and now also in the East, it serves well as a way to produce zombie followers. What a great way to control people from the psychopathic view, seeing as they popularised the idea that a Zen master doesn't bother with reading, and therefore followers don't check actual writings by past masters against that guy they're learning from, who likely fits Gurdjieff's idea of the magician and the sheep. It just induces hypnotic sleep.
You are just reiterating hearsay. Internal energy manipulation is about as rare in South/East Asian traditions as Western alchemists were in Europe.
You can't reach genuine Kundalini without removing internal obstructions, both in the body and the mind. Furthermore, knowledge constantly interfaces with your awareness for both positive and negative(false knowledge) depending on the circumstances so that without knowledge, you couldn't progress to anything significant in any reasonable amount of time at all. It is good that you try to balance this out with information obtained from Ra and the C's, but I would say that your comment on them losing all power is a bit off considering that you gradually lose all power when you stop anything, really.
Due to impermanence and balance, your muscles would shrink, your mind weaken, your meridians would close up, your ability to play a musical instrument would regress and if you stopped networking and doing the Work, you'd also lose whatever you might have gained. If you retain a permanent change to your Self, it could have been gotten from many ways, so this perk isn't exclusive.
As said, this is a common sign of authority which works remarkably well in Chinese and Indian culture, at least in my observation.
When you walk into these lectures with an open mind but a Western eye, you can't help but cringe at these things. For example, in Fo Guang Shan in Southern Taiwan, I once sat in a lecture by the infamous abbot there, who is used to the act of "Guruship". Deliberate slow body motions, annoying way of speaking extra slowly and using one Classical Chinese saying after another while trying really hard at appearing as actually understanding what he's talking about- while it is constantly clear that he is anything but a realised individual. But for the same reason our own side of the Matrix has such an easy time deceiving, seducing and devouring people, it also works for them. Almost like a rock concert, actually. I still remember the first row of female students fawning over him(bear in mind he was 86 at that time and very fat) and close to passing out. When people asked questions, even those from Harvard and Cambridge who were in attendance, their voice actually trembled in sheer reverence.
So you see, analysing the Guru phenomenon can tell us a lot about ponerology and pathocracy. It is shocking how easy these smooth individuals have it and how little resistance they meet.
I don't think this whole Guru phenomenon is over yet, as some people like to think. Consider that Osho is still a subject to be studied in many Universities I've been in or looked at and no, it is not for the purpose of ponerology, where I would like him to be seen, but rather because even academics still seem to believe him to be representing something genuine, when all objective facts speak against that.
