Paris shootout, explosions, casualties

angelburst29 said:
... it “remains unclear how a plot of such sophistication and lethality ...

From the orchestration and execution of the atrocities themselves, to the response, to the reaction, the signs of long planning, scripting, choreography, and calculation are evident.

...

Such an attack is beyond the capability of most organizations and requires capability that is unlikely to be in ISIL’s arsenal. An attack on this scale is difficult to pull off without authorities getting wind of it.

...

I wonder about the sophistication of the attacks :
The three men from the 'Stade de France' didn't seem to be professionals at all, their aim was very far from being reached (thankfully).
Why didn't they blocked the door at the Bataclan, if they wanted to kill as many people as possible ?
Shooting at people in restaurants randomly isn't a military tactic, and surely not as 'efficient' as throwing bombs instead...
 
Eos said:
angelburst29 said:
... it “remains unclear how a plot of such sophistication and lethality ...

From the orchestration and execution of the atrocities themselves, to the response, to the reaction, the signs of long planning, scripting, choreography, and calculation are evident.

...

Such an attack is beyond the capability of most organizations and requires capability that is unlikely to be in ISIL’s arsenal. An attack on this scale is difficult to pull off without authorities getting wind of it.

...

I wonder about the sophistication of the attacks :
The three men from the 'Stade de France' didn't seem to be professionals at all, their aim was very far from being reached (thankfully).
Why didn't they blocked the door at the Bataclan, if they wanted to kill as many people as possible ?
Shooting at people in restaurants randomly isn't a military tactic, and surely not as 'efficient' as throwing bombs instead...

This article gives a clear picture of the type of people that carried out the "random" restaurant attacks: http://www.sott.net/article/306526-Paris-attack-witness-says-white-clean-shaven-professional-gunmen-in-black-Mercedes-massacred-diners

The point is to look random but be effective. Always looks the same, you have your one or multiple patsy so society can direct it's angst at someone and bring them to "justice", They are usually ineffective at killing, so you have to have your professionals doing most of the actual killing and those guys are never captured. If by luck they are captured or killed it's all covered up as quickly as possible.
 
_http://news.sky.com/story/1588777/british-special-forces-to-get-extra-2bn

British Special Forces To Get Extra £2bn

The hike in spending on the UK's elite forces to fund new weapons and vehicles, reflects the growing threat posed by terrorism.

By Alistair Bunkall, Defence Correspondent

An extra £2bn will be spent on the UK's special forces to fight terrorism, David Cameron has said.

The announcement will benefit the SAS and other elite units.

The money will not go on recruitment but will fund new weapons and vehicles, including helicopters.

It will also help buy protective equipment and communication systems.

It is a significant increase in spending on the UK's specialist soldiers and reflects the growing threat of terrorism in the UK.

The additional money, to be spent over the next five years, does not reflect an increase in the MoD's existing budget.

Instead it will be found in the growth in the defence budget that will occur as a result of the Government's commitment to meet NATO's spending target of 2% of GDP.

Next week, the Prime Minister will unveil the new National Security Strategy, outlining the threats to Britain's security over the next five years.

Details of how the military will spend its budget will also be made clearer - it is expected that the MoD will prioritise drones and cyber defences.

The SAS and SBS will be crucial in Britain's response to any terrorist attack.

Special forces soldiers have been training alongside Met Police counter-terror officers to refine tactics.

Those tactics are again being reviewed in light of recent events in Paris, to ensure that the UK is prepared for a similar attack should it happen.

The Home Secretary also confirmed that an extra 1,900 jobs would be created at Britain's three main security agencies - MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. It represents a 15% increase in headcount.

The new jobs will be welcomed by the agencies, who are stretched thin responding to threats facing the country.

It has also been revealed those intelligence agencies had disrupted seven plots in the past year, including one in the last month.

Given it was probably special forces that carried out these attacks, this seems to be a double edged strategy. More forces to 'protect from terrorists' and more 'terrorists'
Not to mention meaning they can justify cutting from other budgets.

Or to put it another way

u9myp.jpg
 
More of the tangled web of aim from the PTB

http://sputniknews.com/us/20151116/1030222492/paris-attacks-snowden-blame.html
US Officials, Media: Edward Snowden Caused Paris Attacks

In the aftermath of Friday’s devastating attacks on Paris, a number of mainstream Western media outlets were quick to blame the tragedy on the US’ favorite national security scapegoat – NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

In the confusion that followed Friday night’s attacks, French officials were desperate for answers. President Francois Hollande latched onto claims of responsibility from the self-proclaimed Islamic State terrorist group, and on Sunday, the French military conducted a massive bombing campaign over the IS stronghold in Raqqa.

But US officials are also pinning blame on one individual: Edward Snowden. It’s a message that has been echoed through a number of Western media outlets, arguing that Snowden’s unveiling of the US government’s data collection weakened Western intelligence efforts.

The accusation began with former CIA chief James Woolsey, who told MSNBC that the whistleblower has “blood on his hands” for the attacks which left 129 people dead. But these sentiments were also echoed by other US security experts.

"There’s no doubt that the disclosures overall created a situation in which we lost coverage of terrorists," said Matthew Olsen, former director of the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), according to Yahoo News. Nick Rasmussen, the current director of the NCTC, also blamed Friday’s violence on "the exposure of intelligence collection techniques."

But as Glenn Greenwald points out for the Intercept, those claims are contradicted by the fact that a string of incidents occurred prior to the Snowden revelations. Terrorist attacks struck in 2002 in Bali, 2004 in Madrid, 2005 in London, 2008 in Mumbai, and 2013 in Boston.

All of these took place before Snowden came forward in June of 2013.

Greenwald also points out that while Snowden revealed the extent to which Washington was spying on its own citizens, terrorists organizations had known for decades to avoid communicating through telephone and internet lines.

"This is a glaring case where propagandists can’t keep their stories straight," Greenwald writes. "The implicit premise of this accusation is that The Terrorists didn’t know to avoid telephones or how to use effective encryption until Snowden came along and them. Yet we’ve been warned for years and years before Snowden that The Terrorists are so diabolical and sophisticated that they engage in all sorts of complex techniques to evade electronic surveillance."

In 2001, for instance, long before Snowden became a household name, the Christian Science Monitor reported that "the head of the US National Security Agency has publicly complained that al Qaeda’s sophisticated use of the Internet and encryption techniques have defied Western eavesdropping attempts."

Even prior to the attacks of 9/11, the FBI, under the Clinton administration, was warning that criminal organizations could take advantage of encryption.

"The looming specter of the widespread use of robust, virtually uncrackable encryption is one of the most difficult problems confronting law enforcement as the next century approaches," then-FBI Director Louis Freeh told the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1997.

In other words, terrorist organizations didn’t need Snowden to warn them about Western surveillance efforts. They were already well aware.

But pinning the blame on Snowden aids the US government in its push for unwarranted access to any encrypted communication.

"It’s not just Snowden but also their own long-time Surveillance State partners – particularly Apple and Google – who are now being depicted as Terrorist Lovers for enabling people to have privacy on the internet through encryption products," Greenwald writes.

At the same time, this misdirection also allows Western intelligence agencies to avoid accountability in failing to prevent the attacks. Reports indicate that French authorities were monitoring at least one of Friday’s attackers, as well as all three of the gunmen which stormed the offices of Charlie Hebdo in January.

"So when they fail in their ostensible duty, and people die because of that failure, it’s a natural instinct to blame others," Greenwald writes. "If you’re a security agency after a successful Terror attack, you want everyone looking elsewhere, finding all sorts of culprits other than those responsible for stopping such attacks."

Finally, blaming Snowden allows Western governments to avoid questions about the origins and financing of IS. A number of Western officials have ceded that the terrorist group would not exist today if Iraq had not been destabilized during the invasion. US officials have criticized American allies for supporting the terrorist group, and declassified documents have even suggested Washington’s own complicity in the creation of IS.

"Given all this, is there any mystery why 'US officials' and the military-intelligence regime…are desperate to shift blame away from themselves for ISIS and terror attacks and onto Edward Snowden, journalism about surveillance, or encryption-providing tech companies?" Greenwald writes. "Wouldn’t you if you were them?"

And...

_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3321369/Cyber-jihadis-threat-UK-jets-hospitals-Ministers-issue-new-terror-alert-police-probe-600-plots-seize-one-suspect-day.html
ISIS plot to use cyber-jihadists to bring down airliners and target UK's nuclear power stations and hospitals

ISIS could kill British citizens by launching cyber-attacks on hospitals and air traffic control, George Osborne will warn today.

As it emerged that police are investigating a staggering 600 terrorist plots against Britain, ministers pledged billions of pounds extra for special forces and cyber security.

In an indication of the 'severe' threat facing the UK, it emerged that 3,000 Islamist fanatics are being monitored – with one arrest every day.

n the past 12 months alone, seven plots have been stopped, including one 'disrupted' by MI5 in the last fortnight.

David Cameron likened the 'poison' of Islamic State to the Nazis and said Britain would require the spirit of the Blitz in confronting the threat.

Amid heightened security at Westminster in the wake of the Paris atrocity:

An extra £2billion was pledged for the SAS and special forces to buy more guns, vehicles and surveillance equipment.

Police prepared to throw a ring of steel around Wembley Stadium for tonight's football friendly between England and France.

Jeremy Corbyn triggered a huge row by saying he did not support a shoot-to-kill policy against terrorists.

In a speech at GCHQ today Mr Osborne will warn that, if IS were able to attack satellites or the IT systems of air traffic control or hospitals, 'the impact could be measured not just in terms of economic damage but of lives lost'.

He will say: 'Let's be clear. IS are already using the internet for hideous propaganda purposes; for radicalisation, for operational planning too. They have not been able to use it to kill people yet by attacking our infrastructure through cyber attack.

'They do not yet have that capability. But we know they want it, and are doing their best to build it.'

Speaking at the G20 summit in Turkey yesterday, Mr Cameron urged vigilance in the UK and said a Paris-style multiple-target attack could happen in London.

He revealed that, in the past two weeks, security officials had managed to disrupt an IS plot against targets in the UK.

It is understood to have involved a planned mass casualty attack involving guns, knives or explosives. Officials downplayed suggestions the target had been Remembrance Sunday events.

Security officials are trying to monitor 450 British citizens who travelled to Syria to fight alongside IS or Al Qaeda and have now returned to Britain.

Whitehall insiders say the IS threat is 'evolving' and its senior figures are now attempting to orchestrate terrorist attacks inside the UK. One said: 'It was Paris this time. I cannot say it will not be us next time.'

In a speech last night after flying back to London, Mr Cameron said the terror threat demanded a 'full spectrum' response, incorporating military force, enhanced powers and resources for the security services, and a crackdown on those peddling extremist ideologies.

He warned that securing victory would require the public to show the same defiance their grandparents demonstrated against the Nazis. He recalled Churchill's resolve, at the height of the Blitz, that 'however long and hard the toil may be, the British nation would never enter into negotiations with Hitler'.

Mr Cameron added: 'It is that same resolve that will defeat this terrorism and ensure the values we believe in – and the values we defend – will again prevail.'

He also pledged fresh action to root out extremism, including the promise of funding, support and even police protection for moderate Muslims who speak out.

He said ministers would launch a drive to improve integration by 'moving away from segregation in our schools and communities and inspecting and shutting down any educational institutions that are teaching intolerance'.

And he urged moderate Muslims to do more to combat the extremists in their midst, saying that 'critical reforming voices' had to be allowed to 'challenge the scriptural basis on which extremists claim to be acting'.

He confirmed that next week's national security strategy would deliver the Government's commitment to spend at least 2 per cent of Britain's income on defence, with more money for special forces, drone technology and combating cyber-warfare.

The police issued a statement laying bare the scale of the threat they face. Commander Richard Walton, the head of the Met's Counter Terrorism Command (SO15), said: 'Across the country the police and security services are running about 600 separate counter-terrorist investigations and we are making on average an arrest a day.

'Six attempts to carry out an attack have been prevented over the past 12 months.'

It came amid confusion at the top of government over whether it should speed up plans to give greater spying powers to the police and security services in the wake of the Paris attacks.

The Investigatory Powers Bill – which will allow security officials to monitor internet records – is not due to be become law until the end of next year.

Yesterday morning Mr Cameron indicated ministers would look at speeding up the timetable. But Home Secretary Theresa May said the new powers should receive 'proper scrutiny' by MPs.
 
Hello,

I just wanted to post that on my way back from town, in the bus, some people showed anger and desinibition in their attitude; an old women started to shout at another, and just after, another old woman strongly hit the bus window because he did not stop. Seems that tension was palpable today! It was like "bursts", suddenly exploding, in rather calm situations.

Maybe people have their nerves totally exhausted.
 
Mal7 said:
I had never heard of this band, so have been browsing for some information on them. Despite the band name, their genre of music isn't death metal, heavy metal, or any kind of metal. Actual death metal bands tend to have more exotic and disturbing names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_death_metal_bands,_!%E2%80%93K ] "Eagles of Death Metal" play popular, slightly bluesy, rock music. A couple of their songs reminded me a little of the Foofighters.

Indeed, Eagles of Death Metal are not a death metal band at all. They're classified as bluegrass music, a subgenre of country music.
 
Mrs. Tigersoap said:
Mal7 said:
I had never heard of this band, so have been browsing for some information on them. Despite the band name, their genre of music isn't death metal, heavy metal, or any kind of metal. Actual death metal bands tend to have more exotic and disturbing names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_death_metal_bands,_!%E2%80%93K ] "Eagles of Death Metal" play popular, slightly bluesy, rock music. A couple of their songs reminded me a little of the Foofighters.

Indeed, Eagles of Death Metal are not a death metal band at all. They're classified as bluegrass music, a subgenre of country music.
Published on Nov 14, 2015
https://youtu.be/fPtvRmH1Qo0
Eagles of Death Metal were playing to a cheering crowd in the Bataclan concert hall when terrorists stormed in and opened fi
The Band 'Eagles of Death Metal' Survived the Terror Attack at the Sold-Out Show
New York Daily News
 
Alada said:
RedFox said:
One of the many entangled goals of this event seems to be renewed PR for the Wests 'War On Terror' - that is, Putin/Russia was making them look weak and ineffectual in the public eye.
As well as taking peoples fear of terrorism away by showing ISIS could be defeated.

This event and all the following 'strongly worded speeches/stories' coming out about renewed attacks on ISIS by the West seem designed to counter this.

I’ve been wondering along the same lines too, and recent coverage here in Brit land seems to back it up. Big push on US/French airstrikes and hooking that up to a 'weakening ISIS’, with no mention of Russia. What remains to be seen is whether the aim there is to 'claim the victory’ in a "mission accomplished" way, or, or also, to push the new attacks on towards ousting Assad, at which point they invite open conflict with Russia. Would they go that far?

Who knows how far their insanity extends, but it wouldn't be a surprise if they think they can start a wholesale war, effectively with Russia, across the whole region and imagine that they can stay safe their armchairs thousands of miles away. The consistent failure of these psychopaths to foresee the consequences of their actions is truly frightening in that regard. Either that or they just don’t give a damn anyway, there's no profit in peace.
Same is true here in US media. I end up watching(or listening) CNN while walking in the office elevator or during lunch period due to TV's in elevator and lunch room. There is serious renewed narration from MSM removing Russia from picture. It looks like small scale post 911 crusade. It does change narration to be told after Syria calms down. Just like Post WW II narration that Hitler is defeated by Western allies, while the most of price is paid by eastern countries-mainly Russia.
 
_http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12000710/David-Cameron-I-will-personally-push-for-Syria-air-strikes.html

David Cameron: I will personally push for Syria air strikes
The Prime Minister announces he will put forward a 'compelling case' for Syria air strikes in the face of opposition by MPs

Britain will attack the "head of the snake" by bombing Isil's headquarters in Syria, David Cameron has vowed as he promised to personally build the case for RAF air strikes in Syria ahead of a Commons vote.

The Prime Minister said that he will respond directly to concerns raised by the Foreign Affairs select committee because he believes there is a "compelling case" for action.

Mr Cameron said it was his "firm conviction" that Britain needed to tackle Isil in the country. He said: "It is in Syria, in Raqqa, that Isil has its headquarters and it is from Raqqa that some of the main threat against this country are planned and orchestrated. Raqqa, if you like, is the head of the snake."

He had earlier rowed back on plans to ask MPs to vote on military action, fearing that he would not command enough support.

But today he signalled in the strongest possible way that he will go for a Commons vote.

He said: "I've always said there is a strong case for us doing so. We should not let others carry the burden and the risks of protecting our country."

He said he "recognise the concerns" of MPs but added: "My firm conviction is that we need to act against Isil in Syria.

"I will respond personally to a report by the Foreign Affairs Select Committee and I will also set out a comprehensive strategy for dealing with Isil. I hope setting out arguments in this way I hope I can build support right across this House for the action I believe we should take."

He declared: "Together we will prevail."

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn welcomed Mr Cameron's promise to set out a detailed plan.

But Mr Corbyn reminded the Prime Minister of his admission that "military strikes alone will not defeat this enemy and could be counter-productive."

The Foreign Affairs Committee, which has a Conservative majority, told Mr Cameron earlier this month to focus his efforts on ending civil war in Syria.

The group also raised concerns about the legal basis for UK action unless it formed part of a "coherent international strategy" to defeat Islamic State.

Conservative MP John Baron, who sits on the committee, said: "We just don't need the deployment of more force. We need fresh thinking as to the West's approach to this five-year civil war. The government has proposed military intervention on both sides.

"What the West needs to do now is focus its efforts on forging a regional plan to combat the greater threat, Isil, even if it means dropping our opposition to Assad in order to achieve this goal, otherwise we risk displaying the same strategic deficit and foreign policy mistakes of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.

"The mistakes we've made in the past is that we've not properly thought through the rationale of intervening in the way we have.

"We've got to put together, if we are going to intervene at all, a regional strategy which actually means talking to people we may not like talking to, like the Russians and the Iranians, co-ordinating the efforts on the ground through neighbours, not our own troops, and actually putting in place a proper military operation.

"I think most experts accept that military strikes alone will not defeat this enemy and could be counter-productive."

On the strategy to tackle the "poisonous ideology" of extremism at home, the Prime Minister said: "That means going after both violent and non-violent extremists.

"Those that sow the poison but stop short of promoting violence are part of the problem."


He added: "It cannot be said enough that the extremist ideology is not true Islam. But it does not work to deny any connection between the religion of Islam and the extremists, not least because the extremists themselves self-identify as Muslims - there is no point in denying that.

"What we need to do instead is to take apart their arguments and demonstrate how wrong they are. In doing so we need the continued help of Muslim communities and Muslim scholars.

"They are playing a powerful role and I commend them for their absolutely essential work."

Mr Cameron said it was impossible to "stand neutral in the battle of ideas".
 
RedFox said:
David Cameron:
On the strategy to tackle the "poisonous ideology" of extremism at home, the Prime Minister said: "That means going after both violent and non-violent extremists.

"Those that sow the poison but stop short of promoting violence are part of the problem."

[...]

Mr Cameron said it was impossible to "stand neutral in the battle of ideas".

Well boil that idea down for a few months and I wonder what the definition of "poisonous ideology" becomes, and who is then defined as a "non-violent extremist" in the "battle of ideas"?

These ideas ideas/language were floated a while back both in the UK and the US as I recall, almost as if that was a test to gauge the effect / response. Maybe the judgement then was that they couldn't fully roll it out without something big to latch it into to. The Paris attacks would fit the bill very well if that is the case.
 
Mrs. Tigersoap said:
Indeed, Eagles of Death Metal are not a death metal band at all. They're classified as bluegrass music, a subgenre of country music.

I listened part way through 3 of their videos this morning, and whatever that musical style is, it's a far cry from any bluegrass I'ver heard. Both wiki and iTunes classify their music as rock, but after listening, it seem to have shades of ska and punk mixed in there as well.

The bluegrass reference probably refers to this...

In a 2003 interview Homme described the sound of the band as a combination of "bluegrass slide guitar mixed with stripper drum beats and Canned Heat vocals."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagles_of_Death_Metal
 
Me too I was thinking about how sophisticated this attack was, something with a very touchy plan, long time in advance made and the murders at the Bataclan shows even sadistic tendency. For the rest it reminds me terrorists attacks in Algeria, people being the targets in bars and terrasse-café. I think everything was studied like a perfect scenario to really touch the subconscious of French. Many people remember the war in Algeria and will be very afraid. There are a lot of Algerians in France. Perversion is in this attack. What about the refugees? And all the Muslims and Arabs and Africans in France? Oh, my my. How sad I am and also so angry to see their hypocrisy, their sick mind and I can not imagine what they have in their baggage for everyone....

Meanwhile the vengeance is in action in Syria with strikes that kill poor innocents. Did you see this video?

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rroAlPWzMw
 
Long-range bombers to fly anti-ISIS missions from Russia, Putin orders Navy to work with France:
https://www.rt.com/news/322436-russia-strikes-syria-putin/

Certainly the US will not like a cooperation from france and russia to fight ISIS...
 
Was one of the main purposes of this bloody massacre in France - so Hollande could declare "a State of Emergency" AND "use" the European Union in Brussels, with the 2009 Lisbon Treaty as a back drop - to enter French (NATO, U.S., Israeali) operations in Syria, without a formal and Legal request of the Syrian Government and President Bashar al-Assad? A loophole to undermine Putin's Russian Military operations and Assad's ground troops in eliminating terrorists? Has the battle ground in Syria, now transformed into - France, NATO, Israel and the U.S. verses Assad and Putin?

France, Russia strike Islamic State in Syria, EU aid invoked
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/17/us-france-shooting-idUSKCN0T22IU20151117#BmHF1z08aQ0dGavq.99

France and Russia both staged air strikes on Islamic State targets in northern Syria on Tuesday as Paris formally requested European Union assistance in its fight against the group behind last Friday’s bloody attacks on the French capital.

French warplanes targeted a command post and a recruitment center for jihadists in the Islamic State stronghold of Raqqa in the second consecutive night of strikes ordered by President Francois Hollande, a military command spokesman told Reuters.

A French government source said Russia hit targets in the same area, a day after Hollande appealed to Washington and Moscow to join in a grand coalition to fight the Islamist group that controls swathes of Syria and Iraq.


In Brussels, Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian invoked the EU’s mutual assistance clause for the first time since the 2009 Lisbon Treaty introduced the possibility, saying he expected help with French operations in Syria, Iraq and Africa.


“This is firstly a political act,” Le Drian told a news conference after a meeting of EU defense chiefs.

The 28 EU member states accepted the French request but it was not immediately clear what assistance would be forthcoming. Britain is agonizing over whether to join air strikes in Syria, while Germany is reticent about joining military action outside Europe.

The French strike on Raqqa involved 10 fighter jets launched from the United Arab Emirates and Jordan. Defense officials said the United States had stepped up intelligence sharing, enabling Paris to identify more specific targets.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls said Hollande would travel to Washington and Moscow next week to press his case for an alliance in Syria.

At present, Russia is supporting Assad’s forces in conjunction with Iran and Lebanese Hizbollah militia, while the United States and France are in a coalition with Sunni Arab states opposed to Assad.
 

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