Paris shootout, explosions, casualties

[bjorb]

[quote author=Windmill Knight]What I find most interesting is how closely the plan ran in parallel to what actually happened just four days before in Paris. Hollande was watching a match in the stadium, multiple simultaenous attacks, etc. So the question is: why are France and Germany being singled out right now by the perpetrators? What's the message? What do Hollande and Merkel have in common that might be upsetting someone lately?

Didn't the Cs mention in a recent session that Germany was a target?[/quote]

Yes exactly. Clearly a warning to do them both if you ask me. And it has been stated by the C’s that this wasn’t the first threat. (Germanwings)

Apparently Europe needs to be reminded systemically. But more threats only show weakness really.

I think it’s the next most exciting thing in the geopolitically chess game. Europe positing itself out of US control.

Clearly bargaining with the US is not effective. US hegemony is all they understand. NATO and the NSA,CIA,NGO need to go and be removed out of Europe. If Europe really wants independence, they just have to look out how Russia deals with US toxic influence from within. But that means taking an active stance against the US and maybe even exposing their fabricated 'war on terror' if the US decides to push this ''clash of civilization' further.


- Btw, nice interview Perceval. :D

 

[Aeneas]

Yes! Brilliant Joe! I think Michael Lane's smile at the end was in genuine admiration that you're able to tell it how it really is! Excellent job!

Yeah, fair dues to him, he smiled a lot, seems like a well-meaning guy, if a bit deluded and not up for much of a debate!

Yep, great job Joe! Mr. Lane is just a typical run of the mill type well-meaning guy, that just spouts the usual nonsense as he believes the official narrative. Interesting how he can say (again just the official line) that it was a failure in Libya as the removal of Gaddafi, destroyed the functioning governing structure. What is happening in Syria is a copy replay of Libya, demonising Assad and yet if he goes then there is only chaos that rules the place. Everyone with two neurons firing has been saying it, yet the US never learns, because it is actually what they want to happen. But Mr. Lane types don't see the similarity to all the other US "strategic failures".

 

[Meechel17]

about the French attack. Joe Quinn is in the program. :)

http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/11/19/438371/Debate-Blowback-of-Wests-support-for-Syria-militants

Good job, Joe - I particularly liked your parting shot - I have to admit it made me laugh out loud.

Me too, that was great and I laughed out loud too!
Sometimes I wonder who pays guys like Michael Lane.

In a way he said a couple of right things but always managed to present it as a mistake and not intended in that way.
Yeah right A lot of people can see through that nonsense by now.

Your question about Michael Lane got me thinking, so I tried looking up the "American Institute for Foreign Policy" and can't find a web presence which is odd. Michael Lane is, however all over the internet being interviewed by Press TV, and others. A number of intros for him all state that he founded the American Institute for Foreign Policy, but there doesn't seem to be any concrete site where you can get actual information about this supposed institute. Am I not looking hard enough, or is there something strange going on here?

 

[Gawan]

I just read in the Spanish edition of Sputnik that, according to the German newspaper Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung, the terrorist cell that tried to blow up explosives outside the Hannover stadium was formed by five persons and was lead by a German. Their plan included detonating three bombs: one at the stadium where Angela Merkel was going to be watching the Germany-Netherlands match, another at Hannover's central station and the last one at a coach/bus station. For those who read Spanish it's here (I haven't been able to find one in English):

http://es.sott.net/article/42591-Un-aleman-encabezaba-comando-terrorista-que-preparaba-atentados-en-Hannover-tenian-planeado-detonar-tres-bombas

What I find most interesting is how closely the plan ran in parallel to what actually happened just four days before in Paris. Hollande was watching a match in the stadium, multiple simultaenous attacks, etc. So the question is: why are France and Germany being singled out right now by the perpetrators? What's the message? What do Hollande and Merkel have in common that might be upsetting someone lately?

Didn't the Cs mention in a recent session that Germany was a target?

And there are still many minor other bomb threats happening in Germany and almost daily, where someone calls or suspicious objects are found. And both society and police are overreacting seeing everywhere bombs too. Something similar happened after Charly Hebdo.

It will be interesting how both Hollande and Merkel will react, because after the G20 summit it was said, that Merkel and Putin like to solve problems together. And that France liked to work together with Russia in Syria, only that the Pentagon stepped in and said clearly no for a military coalition. However it plays out in the end.

 

[angelburst29]

Not sure what to make of this report? Insider information?

Paris Attackers Fought In Syria, Trained In Israel: Report
http://www.activistpost.com/2015/11/paris-attackers-fought-in-syria-trained-in-israel-report.html

By Afraa Dagher

NOTE: What follows is a personal report I received from Hosein Mortada, Lebanese journalist and director of the Information Center for Studies and Documentation.

Hosein Mortada has provided details about one of the individuals who carried out the Paris attack on Saturday November 13th with the rest of his crew of jihadists. His name is Abo Talha Al Jazaeri (Aljazaeri means ‘Algerian’).

Abo Talha, a French national, has been trained in the Occupied Golan Heights, along with his crew who carried out Paris attack operation.

All of the terrorists involved with the Paris attacks were European nationals, previously fighting in Syria alongside Al Nusra Front and then moved to Al Raqqa to join the so-called ISIS, Islamic State in Syria and the Levant.

Finally they moved to Quneitra, Daraa, and their last station was in the Zionist entity, Israel, at a site called Bait Zorah where they have been trained by Israeli Mossad.

They were then sent to France, just six months before the Paris attack incident.

The questions here are:
1.How could such a terrorist group violate secured places like stadiums or concert halls without any assistance with foreign intelligence?
2.Is France ready to designate those fighters as moderate rebels, as it is their title in Syria?

The USA started training these terrorists in Jordan, calling them the Syrian Democratic Army at the time, as Hosein has been informed by his source.

The Syrian Arab Army (SAA), backed by Lebanese resistance Hezbollah and Russian aerial support, have made great progress all over Syria and this progress on the part of the Syrian Arab Army makes Israel worried. Thus, Israel needs more involvement on the part of the USA and its allies (including France) in Syria in order to prevent this advance of the Syrian Arab Army even further.

Now, France and the USA have more pretext as a result of the attack in Paris to escalate their interference in Syria.

Afraa Dagher is a political analyst currently residing in Syria. She has made numerous media appearances commenting on the current state of affairs inside Syria as well as the nature of the current crisis. She has appeared on RT, PRESS TV, and is a regular guest on Activist Post writer Brandon Turbeville’s Truth on the Tracks radio program.

 

[JEEP]

The question that raises itself is to what extent is this false flag attack in Paris a hoax. Why don’t we see the large number of dead and wounded. What we seem to have are uninjured crisis actors.

Where are the eyewitness videos?

Witnesses in behalf of the official story seem to have performed the same function on other occasions:

Having been at the top of government, journalism, and academia for a lifetime, it is clear to me that there is a great deal wrong with the explanations that people are being given. However, the majority of Western peoples have been thoroughly brainwashed to believe that anyone who doubts official explanations is a “conspiracy theorist.”

In other words, only governments and their media presstitutes tell the truth.

This makes it simple for governments with their secret agendas to protect their agendas from the facts. Who would believe me when the alternative is to believe Fox News, CNN, the BBC, NPR, Dubya, Obama, Wolfowitz, Hollande, Merkel, Cameron, the “Weakly” Standard?

If Putin’s government and the Chinese people are so desperately determined to be part of the “glorious West” that they will accept a false reality, the world is doomed.

If it is up to Western politicians, the world is doomed for sure. To the man and the woman they are warmongers. Moreover, the response to the false flag/hoax attack is mindless. The morons declare that the West is attacked because it allows women to be educated. The West is attacked because of “French values and French way of life, because we dance” (Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius).

In other words, the nonsense that worked for the idiot US president, George W. Bush, works for the French. “We are attacked because we are good.” All of us good people here in the West would never be attacked because we have looted and robbed the Middle East for a century and followed up the looting with 14 years of military devastation of seven countries, producing millions of deaths and displaced persons.

Really, it is a wonder that there are not round-the-clock REAL TERRORIST ATTACKS on Western countries, who certainly deserve them.

I think that Paul Craig Roberts is well intentioned and most times has a more or less accurate view of things, but sometimes he jumps the line of what's reasonable. For example above, he entertains the idea of "crisis actors", which seems extremely unlikely to me (and which has been discussed in this forum at length for other terror attacks). Apart from the difficulty of coordinating convincing actors all over the place, what would be the benefit when they can easily kill random people for real?

Then he suggests that Russia and China might be desperate to be part of the West, which is a total misreading of the geopolitical game if he actually thinks that. And he closes by stating that Western countries deserve real attacks, which is an incredibly unfair thing to say, considering that it is exclusively the common people who pay the price with their lives when terrorism hits. I understand he is angry and frustrated, but that last statement is way too much.

Re:"I understand he is angry and frustrated, but that last statement is way too much."

I have sat back & watched my country commit atrocity after atrocity in the fake War on Terror, restrained myself from reading all the gory details re the clandestine torture sanctioned & being perpetrated against innocents, & held back my revulsion at all the ongoing sicko flag waving/support the troops patriotic claptrap that my fellow countrymen feel justifies bombing weddings/funerals/hospitals & massive amounts of civilians who've never done anything to threaten the USA. This in addition to now knowing that all the previous 'police actions'/wars & other western military operations carried out all over the world for the last 100 yrs have also occurred under totally false pretenses & never had anything to do w/ democracy or freedom. Of course, the influence & control exercised by 4DSTS via their carefully cultivated psychopaths are the real perps in all of this & considering we mere human beings are up against the Masters of the Universe, so to speak, can the citizenry be anyway held culpable as well?

I have spoken out against blaming the victim in comments to past VT articles esp re how much fluoridation Americans have been subjected to - we ARE & HAVE been duped on a level that is all but incomprehensible! But then, on the other hand, hasn't the persistent drum beat here been that going along w/ all this false perpetrated violence - esp in regards to condoning torture - is bringing all but certain cosmic cataclysmic destruction upon our planet? To wit, Laura's last article:

The great global change game: Our civilization is headed for the fate of the Bronze Age - destruction

[...] In fact, historical research has convinced me more today than ever that there is no good outcome for the human race if the present conditions continue along their defined trajectory. If human beings don't kill billions of other human beings rather soon, it seems the planet itself, or the cosmos, will do it for us.

OK - let's let THAT last sentence sink in for a moment ...

I have to admit, the 1st time I read it, it didn't penetrate my consciouness - it just sort of slid by. Now, I read it and I'm like, is Laura saying that to prevent cosmic cataclysm, it's going to be essential to exterminate billions of our fellow human beings?!!! Is that deserved/justified in the same sense that you're pointing to PCR's statement? One might be inclinded to think that Laura's statement is "way too much".

I can certainly relate to PCR's rant. Amazingly enough, excerpts re Gurdjieff's teachings posted in the past (I think in the Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus thread) made we realize that any expectation that the majority of the population could see truth simply wasn't possible or ever going to happen. That was a tough pill to swallow but what G said made sense to me.

So, if it is indeed necessary for billions of humans to be killed to ultimately save our planet from cosmic cataclysm, then no, fake killings w/ crisis actors would absolutely be counterproductive when real victims must unknowningly die for the cause.

I find this all very hard to process. Thoughts welcome.

 

[Meg]

About the French attack. Joe Quinn is in the program.

_http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/11/19/438371/Debate-Blowback-of-Wests-support-for-Syria-militants

Excellent job, Joe! Thanks! :)

I agree too that you did a really great job and I was hoping beforehand that you get interviewed again on that matter.

Very well done, Joe. I thought Lane's demeanor and responses throughout the interview were a show of support in what Joe was saying. But, I could be wishfully reading too much into his lack of interest in really debating the issue. :)

The parting shot was a lovely to witness. I had a good laugh.

 

[jar]

Yes! Brilliant Joe! I think Michael Lane's smile at the end was in genuine admiration that you're able to tell it how it really is! Excellent job!

Yeah, fair dues to him, he smiled a lot, seems like a well-meaning guy, if a bit deluded and not up for much of a debate!

Just watched It! Your awesome Joe!!!!

 

[goyacobol]

about the French attack. Joe Quinn is in the program. :)

http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/11/19/438371/Debate-Blowback-of-Wests-support-for-Syria-militants

Good job, Joe - I particularly liked your parting shot - I have to admit it made me laugh out loud.

Yeah, that was a spur of the moment thing. When the host asked me that last question, there wasn't much to say about it, so my answer was relatively short. When I stopped I was initially glad that the host said that they would stop at that point, but then that Mr. Lane guy pipes up and the host tells him he has 30 seconds, and I thought "oh no! he's gonna have the last word!". I had figured out from watching other Debate shows that the host likes to give the "alternative" guest the last word. So it was kind of fortuitous that Mr Lane decided he would sign off with that parting shot because I couldn't resist a little riposte!

Joe,

I thought your measured answers were right on. You didn't rush and carefully pointed out Lane's mistakes. When he tried twist your words to say the chemicals used in Syria were from France you let him know what you really said. And for me his standard excuse for the Libyan massacre was that it was an unfortunate "Strategic Mistake" you described the long on-going strategy of the US to use proxy terrorist armies to destroy and control other countries. Saying that the result for Libya was really a "Success" for the US because it was the intended outcome was something you won't hear from the apologists.

What I liked the most was the sense of your honesty that I don't get to see from the MSM. And, l only hope to some day be so well informed to coolly and calmly answer such important questions. And, I agree with others that your riposte at the end made it a perfect ending.

Thanks for being a voice for so many of us.

 

[Timótheos]

I have spoken out against blaming the victim in comments to past VT articles esp re how much fluoridation Americans have been subjected to - we ARE & HAVE been duped on a level that is all but incomprehensible! But then, on the other hand, hasn't the persistent drum beat here been that going along w/ all this false perpetrated violence - esp in regards to condoning torture - is bringing all but certain cosmic cataclysmic destruction upon our planet? To wit, Laura's last article:

The great global change game: Our civilization is headed for the fate of the Bronze Age - destruction

[...] In fact, historical research has convinced me more today than ever that there is no good outcome for the human race if the present conditions continue along their defined trajectory. If human beings don't kill billions of other human beings rather soon, it seems the planet itself, or the cosmos, will do it for us.

OK - let's let THAT last sentence sink in for a moment ...

I have to admit, the 1st time I read it, it didn't penetrate my consciouness - it just sort of slid by. Now, I read it and I'm like, is Laura saying that to prevent cosmic cataclysm, it's going to be essential to exterminate billions of our fellow human beings?!!! Is that deserved/justified in the same sense that you're pointing to PCR's statement? One might be inclinded to think that Laura's statement is "way too much".

I can certainly relate to PCR's rant. Amazingly enough, excerpts re Gurdjieff's teachings posted in the past (I think in the Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus thread) made we realize that any expectation that the majority of the population could see truth simply wasn't possible or ever going to happen. That was a tough pill to swallow but what G said made sense to me.

So, if it is indeed necessary for billions of humans to be killed to ultimately save our planet from cosmic cataclysm, then no, fake killings w/ crisis actors would absolutely be counterproductive when real victims must unknowningly die for the cause.

I find this all very hard to process. Thoughts welcome.

I think you are misinterpreting what Laura meant in the above quote. It is not that it is necessary or essential that billions of people die to "prevent" cosmic cataclysm, but that cosmic cataclysm is the means by which billions will die if humanity stays on it's present trajectory.

To put it another way... presumably at some point in our timeline, cosmic catastrophe could have been prevented if a critical mass of people woke up and began to understand the true nature of reality on this planet. If they were able see through the lies of the PTB, and understand that most of their leaders were essentially self-serving psychopaths, and somehow managed to remove them from power, then yes, perhaps, the planet might have been spared what appears to be an inevitable rain of cosmic debris. It's a tall order for sure, but seeing that the universe is "open" in that respect, nothing is determined until it actually happens.

I think what Laura was getting at in the above quote is that, at this time in history humanity has now gone past the point of no return. It's too little too late to prevent it now. No amount of mass awakening or social change will likely be effective in stopping the present course of events. So "If human beings don't kill billions of other human beings rather soon, it seems the planet itself, or the cosmos, will do it for us."

It relates to the Human/Cosmic connection as outlined in Pierre and Laura's book.

http://www.redpillpress.com/shop/earth-changes-human-cosmic-connection-secret-history-world-series-volume-3/

At least that's how I understand it.

 

[striveforselflessness]

I think that Paul Craig Roberts is well intentioned and most times has a more or less accurate view of things, but sometimes he jumps the line of what's reasonable. For example above, he entertains the idea of "crisis actors", which seems extremely unlikely to me (and which has been discussed in this forum at length for other terror attacks). Apart from the difficulty of coordinating convincing actors all over the place, what would be the benefit when they can easily kill random people for real?

Then he suggests that Russia and China might be desperate to be part of the West, which is a total misreading of the geopolitical game if he actually thinks that. And he closes by stating that Western countries deserve real attacks, which is an incredibly unfair thing to say, considering that it is exclusively the common people who pay the price with their lives when terrorism hits. I understand he is angry and frustrated, but that last statement is way too much.

I want to say I agree. Although Roberts uses his brain I don't think he uses the facts in the first case, and in the last case he seems to exaggerate his emotions a bit far to make the point. I know where he's coming from but if I didn't it would rub me the wrong way unquestionably. The bolded parts there are right on.

 

[Windmill knight]

I have to admit, the 1st time I read it, it didn't penetrate my consciouness - it just sort of slid by. Now, I read it and I'm like, is Laura saying that to prevent cosmic cataclysm, it's going to be essential to exterminate billions of our fellow human beings?!!! Is that deserved/justified in the same sense that you're pointing to PCR's statement? One might be inclinded to think that Laura's statement is "way too much".

I can certainly relate to PCR's rant. Amazingly enough, excerpts re Gurdjieff's teachings posted in the past (I think in the Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus thread) made we realize that any expectation that the majority of the population could see truth simply wasn't possible or ever going to happen. That was a tough pill to swallow but what G said made sense to me.

So, if it is indeed necessary for billions of humans to be killed to ultimately save our planet from cosmic cataclysm, then no, fake killings w/ crisis actors would absolutely be counterproductive when real victims must unknowningly die for the cause.

[....]

I think what Laura was getting at in the above quote is that, at this time in history humanity has now gone past the point of no return. It's too little too late to prevent it now. No amount of mass awakening or social change will likely be effective in stopping the present course of events. So "If human beings don't kill billions of other human beings rather soon, it seems the planet itself, or the cosmos, will do it for us."

I too think you are misinterpreting Laura, Jeep. What she is saying is that things are so bad that it is almost certain there will be a catastrophic outcome, whether we do it to ourselves or nature does it. She is in no way saying that billions need to die 'for the cause'! She is saying that the solution would have been to make a better world for everyone, but that opportunity seems to have now passed and now we will have to face the consequences, one way or another, just as it happened during the Bronze Age.

 

[Lindenlea]

Great debate Joe, you were all over him like a rash, made me feel a bit sorry for him.

Loved the quip you got in at the last second. Brilliant!!

 

[Windmill knight]

From RT:

26yo would-be jihadist 'did not blow herself up in Paris raid' – police

http://on.rt.com/6x7g

Hasna Aitboulahcen, dubbed “Europe's first female suicide bomber” after she was initially thought to have blown herself up during the Saint-Denis gun siege, was actually killed when another member of the terrorist cell let off a bomb, according to a French police source.

It was initially believed that the 26-year-old would-be jihadist died when she let off her explosive vest at a flat in the suburb of Paris during a police raid on Wednesday morning.

A police source told AFP, however, that Aitboulahcen did not die in a suicide bombing, but because another member of the jihadist cell, previously unaccounted for, detonated a bomb when a group of armed French officers attempted to storm the property in the north suburb of Paris.

According to the police source, the person who set off the bomb was a man, not a woman. The force of the explosion appeared to be so powerful it blew the woman's head off and into the street, an amateur recording and a police account revealed. No one else appeared to have been hurt by the blast.

As scores of France’s RAID special police unit surrounded the house in the suburb of Saint-Denis, Aitboulahcen was there with her cousin Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the suspected mastermind behind the November 13 Paris attacks, which killed 130 people. Aitboulahcen was suspected of assisting the bloody attacks. French investigation sources told Reuters that she and her accomplices were about to launch another attack – this time on Paris’s La Defense financial district.

The seven-hour siege, which was covered live by the world’s media, was over in two hours after the bomb went off, with Abaaoud killed (riddled with bullets and torn apart by grenades) and eight of his suspected accomplices arrested. It is likely that Hasna inadvertently led the police to the terrorists’ doorstep, as intelligence services reportedly intercepted her online chatter prior to the siege.

Investigators are looking to identify what prompted the woman, who was brought up in relative stability by a foster family and attended university, down the path of terrorism.

According to Aitboulahcen's brother, who didn't want to give his name, Hasna had suddenly become radicalised about half a year ago.

"She started by wearing a jilbab [a long garment which covers the whole body except for the face) and then she moved on to the niqab [full-face veil]," he told AFP.

"She was unstable, she created her own bubble. She wasn't looking to study religion, I have never even seen her open a Koran," he added.

 

[Aeneas]

I have to admit, the 1st time I read it, it didn't penetrate my consciouness - it just sort of slid by. Now, I read it and I'm like, is Laura saying that to prevent cosmic cataclysm, it's going to be essential to exterminate billions of our fellow human beings?!!! Is that deserved/justified in the same sense that you're pointing to PCR's statement? One might be inclinded to think that Laura's statement is "way too much".

I can certainly relate to PCR's rant. Amazingly enough, excerpts re Gurdjieff's teachings posted in the past (I think in the Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus thread) made we realize that any expectation that the majority of the population could see truth simply wasn't possible or ever going to happen. That was a tough pill to swallow but what G said made sense to me.

So, if it is indeed necessary for billions of humans to be killed to ultimately save our planet from cosmic cataclysm, then no, fake killings w/ crisis actors would absolutely be counterproductive when real victims must unknowningly die for the cause.

[....]

I think what Laura was getting at in the above quote is that, at this time in history humanity has now gone past the point of no return. It's too little too late to prevent it now. No amount of mass awakening or social change will likely be effective in stopping the present course of events. So "If human beings don't kill billions of other human beings rather soon, it seems the planet itself, or the cosmos, will do it for us."

I too think you are misinterpreting Laura, Jeep. What she is saying is that things are so bad that it is almost certain there will be a catastrophic outcome, whether we do it to ourselves or nature does it. She is in no way saying that billions need to die 'for the cause'! She is saying that the solution would have been to make a better world for everyone, but that opportunity seems to have now passed and now we will have to face the consequences, one way or another, just as it happened during the Bronze Age.

I agree with Windmill Knight as to the way I understood Laura. Basically history presents us with plenty of examples that show what results when humanity doesn't learn and unfortunately we at present time are no different. That doesn't mean that what we are doing doesn't have an effect, but there are also consequences from inertia that humanity will have to "pay" for.

The "train" is derailing at full speed and can not be brought to an instant stop. For those onboard the train, there will be consequences and it will have reverberating effects that will be felt by those not even on the train. The train being the psychopathic Western empire.