Q: (L) Are we, by connecting into this wheel, so to speak, activating the wave in some way?
A: We are not clear about your interesting interpretation there, but it is true that you have an
interactive relationship with the wave however, as stated before, you are in an interactive relationship
with the wave in a sense, in that the wave is a part of your reality, always has been and always will be.
And, of course, it does involve your progress through the grand cycle. And the perpendicular reality,
again is, of course, an advancement from the core outward which is yet another reflection of all reality
and all that exists. Now, we wish to return to the visual representation as mentioned previously. If you
notice the core circle connects with all seven sections to the outer circle. Now, picture that outer circle
as being an ever expanding circle, and each one of the seven segments as being an ever expanding
line. Of course, now, this will expand outward in a circular or cyclical pattern. Please picture visually an
expanding outer circle and a non-expanding inner circle. Contemplate that and then please give us your
feelings as to what that represents.
Q: (L) Does it represent an expansion of our knowledge and consciousness?
A: That's part of it.
Q: (L) Does it represent also expanding influence of what and who we are on that which is around us?
A: That is correct.
Q: (L) Does it also represent a more...
A: Oops! We detected a slippage of your visual representation! Contemplate, if you will, the everexpanding
outer circle and the non-expanding inner circle, and, of course, the seven partitions also
moving outwardly. What type of shape does that form in your mind's eye?
Q: (L) A wheel?
A: Is that all?
Q: (T) A pie?
A: Keep going.
Q: (T) A pie?
A: Keep going.
Q: (L) An eye.
A: Now we are starting to turn it into a sphere! Why would it turn into a sphere?
Q: (L) How can it turn into a sphere?
A: How can it not!
Q: (SV) It is going in ALL directions, not just flat...
A: Is a straight line a straight line or a...
Q: (L) Oh, you're not talking about a circle?
A: We are talking about a circle. What becomes of a circle if you expand it outward forever?
Q: (J) It disappears.
A: It disappears? How can it disappear? Where does it disappear to? We ask you that, Jan? Jan?A: It disappears? How can it disappear? Where does it disappear to? We ask you that, Jan? Jan?
Q: (J) Visually, as the outer circle expands, the inner circle becomes smaller and smaller until it
disappears. As you continue to expand out with the outer circle, the inner circle disappears.
A: But where does it disappear to?
Q: (J) A black hole?
A: A black hole. Well, that's a possibility. But, we really didn't want you to concentrate so heavily on
the smaller circle, now did we? It's the outer circle.
Q: (T) The outer circle is used to encompass more and more.
A: And what shape does it begin to take on? I want you to look at this outer circle expanding outward!
Q: (J) Are we to assume that the seven spokes remain the same size in relation to the circle?
A: Well, answer that question for yourself.
Q: (L) Okay, we are looking at it as a plane representation. As a flat surface.
A: Well, what happens to a flat surface if you extend it outward forever?
Q: (L) Well, we don't know. That, that... (SV) It keeps on going.
A: It keeps on going?
Q: (L) Yeah, bigger and flatter!
A: It does? What happens to a line if you extend it forever and ever?
Q: (Laura and Susan) It keeps on going.
A: It does?
Q: (L) Um hmmm!
A: Where does it go to?
Q: (SV) Forever. (J) Back to itself. (L) We don't know that.
A: Oh, someone said "Back to itself."
Q: (J) Like a snake taking hold of its own tail.
A: Why don't we know that?
Q: (L) Because we don't. It is conjectured that space is curved...
A: "Because we don't know. Now, why don't we know?
Q: (L) Because we haven't been there.
A: Had Columbus been outside of Italy and Spain?
Q: (L) Okay, we are going to assume that if it keeps on expanding it will eventually come back to
itself...
A: No, no, no wait! We asked a question!
Q: (L) Well, of course Columbus had an idea that there was something but he hadn't been there, no.
But he went and checked it out.
A: Did he have just an idea?
Q: (L) Well, pretty much, I guess.
A: Hmmm. That's not the way we remember it. The way we remember it is that he had instinct and
imagination and when he married his instinct with imagination, it became reality. And, when it became
reality, he had created a reality which he was fully confident would be manifest in the physical third
density reality. It wasn't that he was confident. He knew it to be so. He didn't stop himself by adding
prejudice to the equation which is what you are doing when you say: "Well, we don't know what
happens because we have never been there!" Think logically, please. We have told you so many times
that everything is a grand cycle. If it's a grand cycle, we have told you about circles within circles. We
have told you about cycles. We have told you about short wave cycles and long wave cycles. Now, after
all this information that you have asked of us, which we have more than happily given to you, would
you expect that a straight line would just go out forever and ever and ever as a straight line? How
could it possibly do that? What happens if you take, on your third density earth, and you draw a
straight line to the East or to the West or to the North or to the South...
Q: (J) It comes all the way back to itself.
A: Right...
Q: (L) Okay, so we're living in a big globe!
A: Are we?
Q: (L) Well, that is what it sounds like, a big circle?
A: Oh, my, my, my. You need more study and learning, my dear. Need more study. Even your Albert
Einstein had a theory about what happened.
Q: (L) Yes, but that was just a theory.
A: Oh, well I guess then it must be dropped. We'll never know. It's just a theory. Well, we'll just forget
about it.
Q: (T) I'm still expanding the circle... (SV) Me too.
A: Very good, that was the idea. It keeps going and going and going.
Q: (L) Well, mine does too, but it hasn't come back and met anything. So, what's the point?
A: Does there need to be a point?
Q: (L) Of course!
A: Who says? We are trying to help you learn. When do you expect to shut down this process?
Q: (J) Never. (L) Gee, I hope never.
A: Then there never is a point!
Q: (J) Point taken! (L) There is no point. [Laughter.] Well, if you expand the circle outward and
continue expanding it in all directions, it pulls the seven spokes with it which encompasses more and
more space in a cross section, and then turn that circle, you have a sphere.
A: Precisely. But Laura says that means we are living in a big globe. And, maybe we are.
Q: (T) Well, it wouldn't be a big globe, so to speak, it would only be a big globe within the circle. If the
circle continues to expand, it would just continue to go outward and outward and the globe would
become bigger and bigger and bigger... (L) You're making me nervous... (T) But it goes outward
forever... cause there is no end to going out...
A: There isn't?
Q: (SV) Nope.
A: Well, then maybe there's no beginning.
Q: (T) Well, there wouldn't be a beginning, just a big, open void. An infinite void...
A: If there's no end and no beginning, then what do you have?
Q: (L) No point. (J) The here and now.
A: The here and now which is also the future and the past. Everything that was, is and will be, all at
once. This is why only a very few of your third density persons have been able to understand space
travel, because even though traveling into space in your third density is every bit as third density as
lying on your bed at night in your comfortable home, the time reference is taken away. Something that
you hold very close to your bosom as if it were your mother. And, it is the biggest illusion that you
have. We have repeatedly told you over and over that there is no time, and yet, of course, you have
been so brainwashed into this concept that you cannot get rid of it no matter what you do, now can
you? Imagine going out into space. You'd be lost when confronted with reality that everything is
completely all at one? Would you not? Picture yourself floating around in space!
A: And now, when you merge densities, or traverse densities, what you have is the merging of physical
reality and ethereal reality, which involves thought form versus physicality. When you can merge those
perfectly, what you realize then, is that the reason there is no beginning and no end is merely because
there is no need for you to contemplate a beginning or an end after you have completed your
development. When you are at union with the One at Seventh density, that is when you have
accomplished this and then there is no longer any need for difference between physical and ethereal
forms.
Q: (L) On the subject of time as we discussed the other day: we talked about the fact that at the
constant of light there is no time, there is no matter, there is no gravity, but that any unit,
infinitesimally small to the downward side of the constant of light, suddenly there is gravity and
suddenly there is matter. And we asked what is it that congeals this matter out of the energy of light,
so to speak, and I believe that the answer we received was that it was consciousness from 7th level.
From our perspective, would it be possible to achieve this constant and move through to the other side
of it, or at least stay fixed with it, without de-materializing? Is the speed of light interconnected with
the state of no time and no gravity?
A: No in an absolute sense, in a third density sense.
Q: (L) Okay, if you are in fourth density, for example, does everything move at the speed of light and is
that why there is no time there and no gravity?
A: No. That is an incorrect concept... [(T) There is no speed of light, light is everywhere.] Precisely.
There is no speed of light in fourth density because there is no need for any "speed." Speed, itself, is a
third density concept. You remember, all there is is lessons. That's it! There's nothing else. It is all for
your perception. For our perception. For all consciousness. That's all there is.
Q: (L) Well, I am still trying to get a handle on what it is, what is the source of this gravity, this state of
time because they seem to be so intimately connected.
A: Let us ask you a question now: Do you remember going to school?
Q: (L) Yes.
A: What did you do in third grade?
Q: (L) A lot of things. I learned cursive writing. I learned to multiply and divide.
A: Do you remember what you did in first grade?
Q: (L) Yes.
A: Please name one.
Q: (L) I learned to count in several ways. To add and subtract. I learned to read and write. (T) Did you
learn to multiply and divide in first grade? (L) No.
A: Okay. When you were in the process of learning to multiply and divide, did you drop your pen or
pencil and steadfastly return in your mind to first grade and try and figure out why you had to learn the
alphabet?
Q: (L) No.
A: Why not?
Q: (L) Because I already knew it.
A: You already knew it. In other words, you did not need to learn the alphabet because you already
knew it. Correct?
Q: (L) Yes.
A: Are you going to need to learn about the speed of light when there is no longer a speed of light?
Q: (L) Well, that is what I am trying to do. Once you learn it, maybe you are not subject to it's lessons
anymore. I mean, you get concepts presented, you absorb them, practice them, they become part of
you and then you go to the next thing.
A: Yes, but you are asking about the speed of light as relates to fourth density and above density levels
and we are telling you that there is no speed of light there because there is no need for that, because
once you reach fourth density level, you have learned the lessons of third density level.
Q: (L) Well, if a person on third density gets into some kind of vehicle and achieves light speed, does
that automatically translate them into fourth density?
A: Could you please point out one of these vehicles?
Q: (L) Well, we don't have any... yet.
A: Do you expect to have any before you go to fourth density?
Q: (L) No.
A: Then the lesson is learned, yes?
Q: (L) Sort of.
A: If you trust in what we are saying, which is in response to what you are asking, then the lesson is
learned. Now, contemplate, because all there is is lessons.
Q: (L) Well, you talk about time being an illusion, time being something we hold dear to us like a
mother, and that sort of thing, and I would be perfectly happy to let go of time...
A: You do! Let go!
Q: (L) Well, it is one thing to want to do it in your mind and another thing altogether to do it in your
system, your internal operating system.
A: Your internal operating system?
Q: (T) Is that DOS or WARM?
A: Could you please explain what an internal operating system is?
Q: (L) I guess it is the subconscious mind.
A: It is?
Q: (L) Maybe.
A: My, my.
Q: (T) The subconscious mind has no idea of time. (J) Time is an artificial constraint... (L) For example:
a person can have a belief about prosperity in their conscious mind and can talk about it and say
affirmations and all kinds of positive things for themselves, and yet, for some reason that individual
continually lives on the edge of poverty because something keeps happening that they keep screwing
up to keep themselves at the level of poverty. And, when you start digging around in their
subconscious mind you find out that somewhere there is the belief in poverty or there is a past life
connection where they feel they need or deserve to be poor, so, their internal operating system takes
precedence over their conscious beliefs and thoughts. That is what I am talking about here.
A: Yes, but what is your point.
Q: (L) The point is that you may say that you would like to get rid of time and you may understand it
conceptually, but something internal keeps you tied to it. How do you get rid of that internal
connection?
A: Something internal keeps you tied to it?
Q: (J) Like circadian rhythms, it’s physical.
A: We feel you are missing the point.
Q: (L) Well, maybe I am.
A: You see, we speak to all of you when we say this. It's now time for you, as individuals, to try to
move away, as much as possible, not to force yourselves, of course, but to try and move away at your
own pace as much as possible, from the constraints of third density. You have all learned lessons to the
level where you are more than ready to begin to prepare for fourth density. Third density involves a
level of physicality and restriction and restraint and all of the things that go along with those, that you
no longer need. So, therefore, even though we understand that at times it may feel comfortable to
cling to this, there is time for you, and there is that word again, it is time for you to consider moving
ahead and get ready for fourth density and not to be concerned with such things as time or how to free
yourself from the illusion of time. That really is not important. That's like the third grade student
delving into mathematics and stopping everything to go back and contemplate the ABC's and why it
isn't CBA or BAC. There really is no point. It is what it is. They are what they are.
Q: (L) That is what I want to know, what is it?
A: Why do you need to know this?
Q: (L) Because I am curious. What is time?
A: We have already told you that it is a non-existent, artificial creation of illusion for the point of
learning at the level where you are at or were, and once you have left that level, you no longer need it.
Q: (T) Maybe one of the lessons is to learn not to worry about time. Once you learn that time is not
real... (SV) Tell that to your boss!
A: If something is not real, is there any concern in worrying about what it is?
Q: (T) Not, for me.
A: Imagine a conversation between two people: Billy and Gene. Billy says to Gene, "There is no such
thing as time." Gene says, "Oh, really? But I want to know what it is." Billy says, "But I just told you
there is no such thing. Time does not exist. It is not real in any form, in any frame of reference, in any
form of reality, any level of density. It simply does not exist." And, Gene says: "Oh, that's interesting.
Now, again, what is this time?"
Q: (L) Point taken. (T) Do you wear a watch? (L) No. (SV) I have to because of my schedule. (T) But,
you wear the watch because other people believe in time? (SV) Yes. (T) And that is out of courtesy for
their belief, not your belief.
A: That is precisely correct. While you are still in this third density it is still necessary for you to
conform, to a certain extent, to the ways of others who are more comfortable within the realm of third
density. But, as we have stated previously, perhaps it is "time" for you to begin preparing for fourth
density and not concern yourself any more than is absolutely necessary with all the wheres and whys
and what-fors of third density reality. This truly is behind you, now, and we know that because we can
see from all levels six through one and back again in full cycle.
Q: (L) Going along with that statement, and this is going to have to be the last question; preparing for
fourth density: not too long ago I asked a question about the purpose of this group and the answer was
that if we knew, or, more specifically if I knew, I would become "unglued." Was that meant literally?
A: Oh, yes certainly. Every single bone in your body is going to unglue itself from every other.
Q: (J) You are going to turn into a puddle. (L) Well, since you are saying that it is time for us to begin
preparing for fourth density, maybe it is time to deal with that question?
A: Well, perhaps you are trying to steer us, now. This is amusing because, of course, you sought our
help, now I guess you are going to put us in your place and vice versa. But, actually, in a way, that is
what is already happening, because, again, we must remind, that we are you in the future and we have
already experienced all that you are experiencing. And, of course, we are experiencing as it is always
being experienced. But, it is important to note that you have been making progress despite our
occasional chidings, and we are very proud of the progress you have been making. Also, we want to
remind you again not to worry about the extent of the progress or the direction it is taking. Just let it
happen. All knowledge that it is absolutely necessary for you to gain to sustain this progress will be
gained at the appropriate point in ... [chorus] TIME. Therefore, not to worry as it will all fall into place,
as we have told you. Now, we do not feel that you are ready, as yet, to know what your ultimate
purpose is, nor is it necessary for you to know, and it certainly would not be helpful in any way, so we
ask again that you please not worry about that because when the "time" comes for you to know, you
will.
Q: (SV) I want to ask one question: If there is no time, there is no past and no future; there are no
past lives and no future lives, there is no such thing as reincarnation, then how can you be us...
A: Yes, there is reincarnation. You are getting ahead of yourself there. We never said there is no
reincarnation.
Q: (SV) But, if there is no time? (J) It is our perception of it. (L) It is all happening simultaneously. We
are having all of these lifetimes at once. (SV) Is there a way that we can connect ourselves with all our
other selves?
A: Picture it this way: we will access some of your memory banks and give you another reference
which, interestingly enough, fits very closely with the perpendicular reality wheel that we described
earlier. You know what a slide projector looks like? To give you some feeling of what this expanded
nature of reality really is, picture yourself watching a big slide presentation with a big slide wheel on
the projector. At any given point along the way you are watching one particular slide. But, all the rest
of the slides are present on the wheel, are they not? And, of course, this fits in with the perpendicular
reality, which fits in with the circles within circles and cycles within cycles, which also fits in the Grand
Cycle, which also fits in with what we have told you before: All there is is lessons. That's all there is and
we ask that you enjoy them as you are watching the slide presentation...
Q: (J) In that analogy, the light that shines through the slide, as it projects it upon the screen, is our
perception?
A: And, if you look back at the center of the projector, you see the origin and essence of all creation
itself, which, is level seven where you are in union with the One.
Q: (T) Can we ask one more quick question? NASA has announced that the space telescope, Hubble,
has detected clusters of comets, is this, in effect, the beginning of the government's of the world
preparing the people for what is to come?
A: It certainly is a possibility, but, again, you are accessing a very touchy area. Too much knowledge
for you to gather in this particular area would not be beneficial.
End of Session
