Poland

Tens of thousands of people joined a pride march in Warsaw on Saturday as gay rights continue to become a major issue in Poland's election campaign.

Warsaw pride parade attracts large crowd amid heated political debate
People take part in the annual Equality Parade rally in support of the LGBT community in Warsaw, Poland, June 8, 2019. REUTERS/Kacper Pempel

People take part in the annual "Equality Parade" rally in support of the LGBT community in Warsaw, Poland, June 8, 2019. REUTERS/Kacper Pempel

The parade, which was expected to be the biggest of its kind in the city, came as the ruling conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party ramped up its opposition to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights, saying opposition support for LGBT issues threatens Polish culture.

PiS made alleged threats related to LGBT movements a big part of its campaign in last month’s European Parliament elections and the theme is likely to remain a major topic ahead of a national vote expected in October or November.


In response to the response to the LGBT equality parade, there was a March for Life and Family and against liberal sex education in schools:

BeautifulWarsaw🇵🇱 @BeautifulWarsaw

I the above video, participants repeat the phrase: "There is no freedom without morality" ("Nie ma wolności bez moralności")




 
I found the below article on SOTT:

Facebook on trial in Poland over censorship case -- Sott.net

A Polish court held a first hearing Wednesday in a case brought against Facebook by a historian who claims the tech giant engaged in "censorship" by suspending accounts that had posted about a nationalist rally in Warsaw.

The case comes as major tech firms like Facebook and Twitter have been introducing new measures for stamping out extremist content and closing down misinformation on the internet, under growing pressure from governments pushing for action.

Historian Maciej Swirski has complained that Facebook in 2016 suspended a couple of accounts that provided information on an independence day march organised by far-right groups.

"I'm not a member of the National Movement, but as a citizen I wanted to inform myself on the event in question and I was blocked from doing so," Swirski told AFP.

"This censorship doesn't concern my own posts, but rather content that I had wanted to see."

The historian is also the president of the anti-defamation organisation Reduta Dobrego Imienia, which strives to defend Poland's image, especially in the context of World War II.

Swirski claimed that Facebook had wanted to move the trial to Palo Alto and have it take place behind close doors, but the Warsaw court refused.

"We'd like to know what mechanisms Facebook uses to moderate content," he said.

AFP was unable to reach Facebook officials in Poland for comment Wednesday.

But lawyers for the company argued that censorship can only be exercised by the state and that a private media firm is not obligated to publish any particular content.

Swirski claimed however that the "global giant" is not a media company like any other.

The next court hearing will take place on October 30.

Facebook is already under the spotlight following its role in the Cambridge Analytica data scandal.

After revelations from a whistleblower, it was shown that tens of millions of users had their personal data hijacked by Cambridge Analytica, a political firm working for Donald Trump in 2016.


The 11th of November is the Polish Independence Day and it was accompanied by a massive rally in Warsaw. Western media almost without exception portrayed it as nationalist event, but although I haven't been there, I'm a bit suspicious of the Nazi label. I used to live in Warsaw and I still have plenty of friends there. Many of them attended the rally and none of them can be labelled as Nazis, even by a huge stretch of imagination. They're very patriotic and quite conservative, family oriented people, although mostly critical of the current Polish right-wing government. Judging by the photos they posted on social media, for many of those people it was a family event, not some sort of a Nazi gathering the Western media portrayed it to be.

It looks like any expression of patriotism gets labelled as nationalism or Nazizm these days.
 
Poland's President Andrzej Duda is in Washington on a working visit with President Trump.

U.S. and Poland sign joint defense declaration
U.S. President Donald Trump and  Poland's President Andrzej Duda arrives for a joint news conference in the Rose Garden at the White House in Washington, U.S., June 12, 2019. REUTERS/Leah Millis

U.S. President Donald Trump and Poland's President Andrzej Duda arrives for a joint news conference in the Rose Garden at the White House in Washington, U.S., June 12, 2019. REUTERS/Leah Millis

The United States and Poland on Wednesday signed a joint declaration affirming defense cooperation, U.S. President Donald Trump said.

“As the declaration makes very clear, the United States and Poland are not only bound by a strategic partnership, but deep common values, shared goals and a very strong and abiding friendship,” Trump said at a White House news conference with Polish President Andrzej Duda.

Trump shows off F-35 fighter to Polish President Duda
U.S. President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump stand with Poland's President Andrzej Duda and his wife, Agata Kornhauser-Duda, as they watch an F-35 flyover outside the White House in Washington, U.S., June 12, 2019. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque

It was not practical to give Polish President Andrzej Duda a ride in a U.S-made F-35 fighter jet, so President Donald Trump did the next best thing - he had one of the pricey planes fly over the White House for Duda to see.

U.S. will deploy 1,000 troops to Poland; Warsaw may call them 'Fort Trump'
U.S. President Donald Trump greets Poland's President Andrzej Duda in the Oval Office of the White House in Washington, U.S., June 12, 2019. REUTERS/Leah Millis


Trump announced the troop deployment at a joint news conference with Duda in the White House Rose Garden shortly after the two leaders signed a joint declaration affirming defense cooperation and watched a U.S.-made F-35 fighter jet fly overhead.

Duda, who is considering naming the U.S. installation “Fort Trump,” said the new influx of troops was needed because of Moscow’s past aggression against Poland and to help solidify his country’s ties to the West.

Trump said earlier the troop contingent could come from the U.S. force in Germany, which he has accused of paying too little for NATO’s common defense.

The decision by Trump represents an effort to cater to the interests of Poland, a key NATO ally, while not overly antagonizing Russian President Vladimir Putin, with whom Trump would like to have friendly relations. He and Putin are to meet in Japan in two weeks.

“I hope that Poland is going to have a great relationship with Russia. I hope that we’re going to have a great relationship with Russia,” said Trump.

The United States already has troops in Poland as part of a 2016 agreement with the NATO military alliance in response to Moscow’s annexation of Crimea from Poland’s eastern neighbor Ukraine in 2014.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg issued a statement welcoming the deployment.

Slideshow (5 Images)
U.S. will deploy 1,000 troops to Poland; Warsaw may call them 'Fort...
 
Russia says it will respond defensively to U.S. deployment in Poland
FILE PHOTO: U.S. President Donald Trump and Poland's President Andrzej Duda hold a joint news conference in the Rose Garden at the White House in Washington, U.S., June 12, 2019. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque/File Photo

The Kremlin said on Thursday the Russian military was closely tracking U.S. plans to beef up its forces in Poland and taking steps to ensure Russia's national security was not threatened by what Moscow regards as a betrayal of trust.

Jun 13 2019 - Russia Concerned About Growing US Military Presence in Poland
Russia Concerned About Growing US Military Presence in Poland

Moscow is concerned about Washington’s plans to deploy a drone squadron to Poland, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told reporters on Thursday.

"We are certainly concerned because it reflects attempts to raise military tensions in Europe, particularly on NATO's so called Eastern Flank," he said, TASS reported.

"False excuses are used to implement programs that destabilize and escalate the situation," Ryabkov added.

Poland will build a military facility at no cost to the US government to support the presence of 1,000 American troops, President Donald Trump stated on Wednesday in a joint press conference with Polish President Andrzej Duda at the White House, according to Sputnik.

"Poland will soon provide basing and infrastructure to support the military presence of about 1,000 American troops," Trump said, adding, "The Polish government will build these projects at no cost to the United States."

Polish President Andrzej Duda noted that the United States’ military presence in Poland will hopefully be expanded with respect to the number of troops and infrastructure.

"There will be more American troops in Poland, and it is going to be enhanced cooperation, it is going to be an enduring presence, which, hopefully, will increase gradually in terms of the number of troops and also in terms of infrastructure," Duda stated.

Russia says concerned about U.S. deployment of spy drones in Poland: RIA
Russia is concerned about a U.S. plan to deploy spy drones in Poland, RIA news agency cited a Russian deputy foreign minister as saying on Thursday.
 
Poland's ruling nationalists seek to broaden appeal as election nears
FILE PHOTO: Poland's Law and Justice (PiS) leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski speaks during a party convention ahead of the EU election, in Krakow, Poland May 19, 2019. REUTERS/Kacper Pempel

FILE PHOTO: Poland's Law and Justice (PiS) leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski speaks during a party convention ahead of the EU election, in Krakow, Poland May 19, 2019. REUTERS/Kacper Pempel

KATOWICE, Poland July 18, 2019 - Poland’s ruling nationalists want to appeal to more educated urban voters beyond their conservative rural base ahead of a parliamentary election later this year when they hope to gain a large enough majority to change the constitution.

The eurosceptic Law and Justice party (PiS), in power since 2015, is seen winning 42 percent, according to an opinion poll by Kantar this week, well ahead of its nearest rival, the liberal, pro-EU Civic Coalition, on 27 percent.

Support for PiS has been buoyed by its generous social program and strong economic growth, while its euroskepticism, tough stance on immigration and embrace of traditional Catholic values are also attractive to conservative voters.

But to win the two thirds majority needed to amend the constitution, PiS will have to reach out to more liberal-minded, pro-EU voters in Poland’s cities and towns, though political analysts remain skeptical that it can do so.

“It’s a global, European trend that cities are by nature more interested in the views and ideology of the left. Poland is still different, this conservative element is strong,” Poland’s minister for entrepreneurship and technology Jadwiga Emilewicz told Reuters in a recent interview.

“We are aware that 60% of Poles live in... cities, big metropolises, small towns. We have a real offer for them,” she said during a “brainstorming” conference in the city of Katowice that explored ways of boosting the appeal of PiS.

PiS’s pitch to urban voters will focus on boosting low wages and investment and on environmental issues such as air pollution.

Uphill Task
The party and its right-wing coalition partners could adopt measures to encourage clean energy production and open up more “zero-emission” zones in towns and cities, said Emilewicz.

It could also work with regional authorities to foster special enterprise zones with breaks and incentives to investors willing to create better paying jobs.

PiS plans more initiatives in the coming months designed to lure urban voters, but analysts said it faces an uphill task, noting that it lost ground in Polish cities including the capital Warsaw in last year’s local elections.

“If you want to change your line, you have to do it well ahead of time... You have to win a campaign with momentum, not with last-minute maneuvers,” said Jaroslaw Flis, a sociologist with the Jagiellonian University in Krakow.

Flis said he thought PiS was unlikely to win a constitution-changing majority, adding that pushing too hard to win over more liberal voters could backfire by alienating the party’s conservative base.

“The fact that they have declared they want to get the support of the more well-to-do in society... is quite risky,” Flis said.

PiS wants to secure a constitution-changing majority in order to entrench its conservative vision for Poland. This includes extending an overhaul of the judiciary, which has prompted legal battles with the European Union, reducing foreign ownership of Polish media and other measures.

PiS won 235 seats in the 460-seat lower house Sejm in the 2015 election but would need 307 seats to be able to alter the constitution.
 
Poland says Trump to attend World War Two event in Warsaw
FILE PHOTO: U.S. President Donald Trump gives a public speech in front of the Warsaw Uprising Monument at Krasinski Square, in Warsaw, Poland July 6, 2017. REUTERS/Laszlo Balogh
FILE PHOTO: U.S. President Donald Trump gives a public speech in front of the Warsaw Uprising Monument at Krasinski Square, in Warsaw, Poland July 6, 2017. REUTERS/Laszlo Balogh

WARSAW - Poland said on Thursday U.S. President Donald Trump would attend events in Warsaw marking the 80th anniversary of the Nazi invasion of the country - though the White House said the trip was not yet confirmed.

Poland’s Deputy Prime Minister Jacek Sasin said other world leaders would come on Sept. 1 to remember the offensive that led to the outbreak of World War Two.

President Trump will definitely be there - this has been confirmed,” Sasin told Polish news portal wp.pl.
White House officials say Trump was still considering whether to go.

Poland’s ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party has focused on closer ties with Washington as part of its effort to deter aggression from an increasingly emboldened Russia.

Trump last visited Poland in July 2017, where he made a speech vowing to defend NATO allies. The U.S. said last month it would increase its troop presence in Poland by 1,000.

Poland's fragmented opposition coalesces into left, center blocs
FILE PHOTO: Poland's Law and Justice (PiS) leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski and Poland's Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki applaud as they attend a Law and Justice (PiS) party convention ahead of the EU election, in Krakow, Poland May 19, 2019. REUTERS/Kacper Pempel/File Photo

Poland's main opposition parties have formed two coalition blocs to vie for left-leaning and centrist votes ahead of a national election later this year, in the hope of denting the popularity of the ruling nationalist Law and Justice (PiS) party.

Next EU executive won't let Poland, Hungary off hook on democracy: diplomats
FILE PHOTO: European Commission deputy president Frans Timmermans (L) and Austrian Social Democratic (SPO) leader Pamela Rendi-Wagner campaign ahead of the European Parliament elections in Vienna, Austria, May 25, 2019. REUTERS/Lisi Niesner
The European Union's next executive will keep up forceful pressure on Poland and Hungary over rule of law deficiencies, diplomats and officials said on Thursday, countering the hopes of Warsaw's ruling nationalist, euroskeptic party.
 
Poland's main opposition parties have formed two coalition blocs to vie for left-leaning and centrist votes ahead of a national election later this year, in the hope of denting the popularity of the ruling nationalist Law and Justice (PiS) party.

I would say all of these parties - left-leaning coalition (SLD, Wiosna) , center coalition (PO) and Law and Justice (PiS) are leftist parties...The members of these parties were changing between them whenever it was better for them. Only difference is their "strategy". One side are playing on leftist emotions , center coalition plays on the middle-class mostly city residents desires and Law ad Justice want to get into country-side, catholic based minds. All of them are buying the voters giving lots of stupid, weird promises and donations... Even if Center coalition is against "500+" program they won't take it down if they will win elections.. This is crazy... None of these parties have real program to fix real issues... What they can figure out only is to give "sausages to the crowds" to get them pleased and silent and increase taxes behind their back... And majority, stupid crowd swallow it with a smile on their faces... This is sad.

And what is more sad is when you are the witness of the discussion between center coalition (PO) supporter and Law and Justice (PiS) supporter. These discussions are senselessness and does not lead to anything (no one even tries to redefine their assumptions). Mostly it ends up with emotional quarell... This thing worries me the most..
 
I would say all of these parties - left-leaning coalition (SLD, Wiosna) , center coalition (PO) and Law and Justice (PiS) are leftist parties...The members of these parties were changing between them whenever it was better for them. Only difference is their "strategy". One side are playing on leftist emotions , center coalition plays on the middle-class mostly city residents desires and Law ad Justice want to get into country-side, catholic based minds. All of them are buying the voters giving lots of stupid, weird promises and donations... Even if Center coalition is against "500+" program they won't take it down if they will win elections.. This is crazy... None of these parties have real program to fix real issues... What they can figure out only is to give "sausages to the crowds" to get them pleased and silent and increase taxes behind their back... And majority, stupid crowd swallow it with a smile on their faces... This is sad.

And what is more sad is when you are the witness of the discussion between center coalition (PO) supporter and Law and Justice (PiS) supporter. These discussions are senselessness and does not lead to anything (no one even tries to redefine their assumptions). Mostly it ends up with emotional quarell... This thing worries me the most..

Parties are without scruples to lie and change their direction of politics, that the questions about which party is left or right do not have any sense. The real differents are about which party is more ponerized/pathologized and which more normal also which party focusing more on people who are authoritarian followers, which more focusing on normal people. This more practical way of seeing things. If you will analyze then you will see that both political "camps" tend to be more radical. Now is the time in which people in Poland need knowledge about ponerology the most since regime changes in 1991. Even if it is too late to do the changes, it would be worth to keep common sense and do not fall under any propaganda. Ponerologia Polityczna Andrzeja Łobaczewskiego gives the clues about what's going on - worth to remember about Łobaczewski.
 
I would say all of these parties - left-leaning coalition (SLD, Wiosna) , center coalition (PO) and Law and Justice (PiS) are leftist parties...The members of these parties were changing between them whenever it was better for them. Only difference is their "strategy".

It might be beneficial to explore who is financing each of these groups?

One of Poland's gravest mistakes was excepting NATO and US troops.
Now, another 1000 US troops are expected to arrive. How does that improve economic and social conditions in Poland? What upgrades have been made in transportation or the infrastructure? Why is NATO there in the first place ... and using Poland as a playground for it's activities? These questions are important because which ever Political coalition supports US-NATO - whether they are left-leaning, leftist or center coalition - are the group who will receive abundant funding and support and are slated for winning the election.

Some may argue that NATO is protecting Poland from Russian invasion?

The Soviet Union/Russia never-ever invaded Poland! Nor did the Soviet Union/Russia invade Poland in September of 1932.

The Soviets Wanted to Protect the USSR – and therefore to Preserve Independent Poland


[For the text of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact see m-rpact.html ]

It is conventionally stated as fact that the Nonaggression Pact between the USSR and Germany (often called the "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" or "Treaty" after the two foreign ministers who signed it) was an agreement to "partition Poland", divide it up.

This is completely false ... see "The Secret Protocols to the M-R Pact Did NOT Plan Any Partition of Poland".

No doubt a big reason for this falsehood is this: Britain and France did sign a Nonaggression Pact with Hitler that "partitioned" another state -- Czechoslovakia. That was the Munich Agreement of September 30, 1938.

Poland too took part in the "partition" of Czechoslovakia too. Poland seized a part of the Cieszyn area of Czechoslovakia, even though it had only a minority Polish population. This invasion and occupation was not even agreed upon in the Munich Agreement. But neither France nor Britain did anything about it.

Hitler seized the remaining part of Czechoslovakia in March 1939. This had not been foreseen in the Munich Agreement. But Britain, France, and Poland did nothing about it.

So the anticommunist "Allies" Britain, France, and Poland really did participate in the partitioning of a powerless state! Maybe that's why the anticommunist "party line" is that the USSR did likewise? But whatever the reason for this lie, it remains a lie.

The Soviet Union signed the Nonaggression Pact with Germany not to "partition Poland" like the Allies had partitioned Czechoslovakia, but in order to defend the USSR.

The Treaty included a line of Soviet interest within Poland beyond which German troops could not pass in the event Germany routed the Polish army in a war.

The point here was that, if the Polish army were beaten, it and the Polish government could retreat beyond the line of Soviet interest, and so find shelter, since Hitler had agreed not to penetrate further into Poland than that line. From there they could make peace with Germany. The USSR would have a buffer state, armed and hostile to Germany, between the Reich and the Soviet frontier.

The Soviets -- "Stalin", to use a crude synecdoche (= "a part that stands for the whole") -- did not do this out of any love for fascist Poland. The Soviets wanted a Polish government -- ANY Polish government -- as a buffer between the USSR and the Nazi armies.

The utter betrayal of the fascist Polish Government of its own people frustrated this plan.

As far as the rest of the world was concerned, the Polish government had two alternatives in the event its army was smashed by an attacking army.
1. It could stay inside the country, perhaps moving its capital away from the invading army. From there it could have sued for peace, or surrendered.
2. The Polish government could have fled to an allied country that was at war with Germany: either France or England.
The governments of all other countries defeated by Germany did one or both of these things. The Polish government -- racist, anticommunist, hyper-nationalist, -- in short fascist, as bad as they get -- didn't do either. Rather than fight the Polish government fled into neighboring Rumania.

Rumania was neutral in the war. By crossing into neutral Rumania, the Polish government became prisoners. The legal word is "interned". They could not function as a government from Rumania, or pass through Rumania to a country at war with Germany like France, because to permit them to do that would be a violation of Rumania’s neutrality, a hostile act against Germany.

The USSR did not invade Poland - and everybody knew it at the time
When Poland had no government, Poland was no longer a state. (More detailed discussion below)

What that meant was this: at this point Hitler had nobody with whom to negotiate a cease-fire, or treaty.

Furthermore, the M-R Treaty’s Secret Protocols were void, since they were an agreement about the state of Poland and no state of Poland existed any longer. Unless the Red Army came in to prevent it, there was nothing to prevent the Nazis from coming right up to the Soviet border.

Or -- as we now know they were in fact preparing to do -- Hitler could have formed one or more pro-Nazi states in what had until recently been Eastern Poland. That way Hitler could have had it both ways: claim to the Soviets that he was still adhering to the "spheres of influence" agreement of the M-R Pact while in fact setting up a pro-Nazi, highly militarized fascist Ukrainian nationalist state on the Soviet border.

At the end of September a new secret agreement was concluded. In it the Soviet line of interest was far to the East of the "sphere of influence" line decided upon a month earlier in the Secret Protocol and published in Izvestiia and in the New York Times during September 1939. This reflected Hitler’s greater power, now that he had smashed the Polish military. See the map at new_spheres_0939.html

In this territory Poles were a minority, even after the "polonization" campaign of settling Poles in the area during the ‘20s and ‘30s. You can see the ethnic / linguistic population map at curzonline.html

How do we know this interpretation of events is true?

How do we know the USSR did not commit aggression against, or "invade", Poland when it occupied Eastern Poland beginning on September 17, 1939 after the Polish Government had interned itself in Rumania? Here are nine pieces of evidence:


1. The Polish government did not declare war on USSR.
The Polish government declared war on Germany when Germany invaded on September 1, 1939. It did not declare war on the USSR.
2. The Polish Supreme Commander Rydz-Smigly ordered Polish soldiers not to fight the Soviets, though he ordered Polish forces to continue to fight the Germans.
3. The Polish President Ignaz Moscicki, interned in Rumania since Sept. 17, tacitly admitted that Poland no longer had a government.
4. The Rumanian government tacitly admitted that Poland no longer had a government.
The Rumanian position recognized the fact that Moscicki was blowing smoke when he claimed he had legally resigned on September 30. So the Rumanian government fabricated a story according to which Moscicki had already resigned back on September 15, just before entering Rumania and being interned (NYT 10.04.39, p.12). Note that Moscicki himself did not claim this!
Rumania needed this legal fiction to try to sidestep the following issue. Once Moscicki had been interned in Rumania – that is, from September 17 1939 on – he could not function as President of Poland. Since resignation is an official act, Moscicki could not resign once he was in Rumania.
For our present purposes, here’s the significant point: Both the Polish leaders and the Rumanian government recognized that Poland was bereft of a government once the Polish government crossed the border into Rumania and were interned there.
Both Moscicki and Rumania wanted a legal basis – a fig-leaf -- for such a government. But they disagreed completely about this fig-leaf, which exposes it as what it was – a fiction.
5. Rumania had a military treaty with Poland aimed against the USSR. Rumania did not declare war on the USSR.
The Polish government later claimed that it had "released" Rumania from its obligations under this military treaty in return for safe haven in Rumania.
But there is no evidence for this statement. No wonder: it is at least highly unlikely that Rumania would have ever promised "safe haven" for Poland, since that would have been an act of hostility against Nazi Germany. Rumania was neutral in the war and, as discussed below, insisted upon imprisoning the Polish goverment and disarming the Polish forced once they had crossed the border into Rumania.
The real reason for Rumania's failure to declare war on the USSR is probably the one given in a New York Times article of September 19, 1939:

"The Rumanian viewpoint concerning the Rumanian-Polish anti-Soviet agreement is that it would be operative only if a Russian attack came as an isolated event and not as a consequence of other wars."
- "Rumania Anxious; Watches Frontier." NYT 09.19.39, p.8.
That means Rumania recognized that the Red Army was not allied with Germany, an "other war." This is tacit recognition of the Soviet and German position that Poland no longer had a government, and therefore was no longer a state.


6. France did not declare war on the USSR, though it had a mutual defense treaty with Poland.

See m-rpact.html for the reconstructed text of the "secret military protocol" of this treaty, which has been "lost" – i.e. which the French government still keeps "secret"

7. England never demanded that the USSR withdraw its troops from Western Belorussia and Western Ukraine, the parts of the former Polish state occupied by the Red Army after September 17, 1939.

On the contrary, the British government concluded that these territories should not be a part of a future Polish state. Even the Polish government-in-exile agreed!
See maisky_101739_102739.html These documents are in the original Russian, with the relevant quotations translated into English below them.
8. The League of Nations did not determine the USSR had invaded a member state.

Article 16 of the League of Nations Covenant required members to take trade and economic sanctions against any member who "resorted to war".
No country took any sanctions against the USSR. No country broke diplomatic relations with the USSR over this action.
However, when the USSR attacked Finland in 1939 the League did vote to expel the USSR, and several countries broke diplomatic relations with it. See http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1939/391214a.html
A very different response! which tells us how the League viewed the Soviet action in the case of Poland.

9. All countries accepted the USSR’s declaration of neutrality.

All, including the belligerent Polish allies France and England, agreed that the USSR was not a belligerent power, was not participating in the war. In effect they accepted the USSR’s claim that it was neutral in the conflict.

See FDR’s "Proclamation 2374 on Neutrality", November 4, 1939:
"…a state of war unhappily exists between Germany and France; Poland; and the United Kingdom, India, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the Union of South Africa,…" - http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15831&st=&st1=
- also "152 - Statement on Combat Areas" – defines
"belligerent ports, British, French, and German, in Europe or Africa…" - http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15833&st=&st1=
The Soviet Union is not mentioned as a belligerent. That means the USA did not consider the USSR to be at war with Poland. For the Soviet Union's claim of neutrality see soviet_neutrality.html
Naturally, a country cannot "invade" another country and yet credibly claim that it is "neutral" with respect to the war involving that country. But NONE of these countries declared the USSR a belligerent. Nor did the United States, the League of Nations, or any country in the world.
The Polish State Collapsed
By September 17, 1939, when Soviet troops crossed the border, the Polish government had ceased to function. The fact that Poland no longer had a government meant that Poland was no longer a state.

On September 17 when Molotov handed Polish Ambassador to the USSR Grzybowski the note Grzybowski told Molotov that he did not know where his government was, but had been informed that he should contact it through Bucharest. See polish_state_collapsed.html

In fact the last elements of the Polish government crossed the border into Rumania and so into internment during the day of September 17, according to a United Press dispatch published on page four of the New York Times on September 18 with a dateline of Cernauti, Rumania. See polish_leaders_flee.html

Without a government, Poland as a state had ceased to exist under international law. This fact is denied -- more often, simply ignored -- by anticommunists, for whom it is a bone in the throat.

We take a closer look at this issue in the next section below. But a moment's reflection will reveal the logic of this position. With no government -- the Polish government was interned in Rumania, remember -- there is no one to negotiate with; no body to which the police, local governments, and the military are responsible. Polish ambassadors to foreign countries no longer represent their government, because there is no government. (See the page polish_state_collapsed.html , especially the NYT article of October 2, 1939 )

The Question of the State in International Law
EVERY definition of a "state" recognizes the necessity of a government or "organized political authority." Once the Polish government crossed the border into Rumania, it was no longer a "government."

Even the Polish officials of the day recognized this by trying to create the impression that "the government" had never been interned since it had been handed over to somebody else before crossing into Rumania. See the discussion concerning Moscicki and his "desire to resign" on September 29, 1939, also cited above.

So EVERYBODY, Poles included, recognized that by interning themselves in Rumania the Polish government had created a situation whereby Poland was no longer a "state." This is not just "a reasonable interpretation" – not just an intelligent, logical deduction but one among several possible deductions. As I have demonstrated in this paper, it was virtually everybody's interpretation at the time. Every major power, plus the former Polish Prime Minister himself, shared it.

Once this is problem is squarely faced, everything else flows from it.

* The Secret Protocol to the M-R Pact was no longer valid, in that it was about spheres of influence in "Poland", a state.

By September 15 at the latest Germany had taken the position that Poland no longer existed as a state (discussed further here).
Once Poland ceased to exist as a state this Secret Protocol did not apply any longer.
Therefore if they wanted to the Germans could march right up to the Soviet frontier.
Or – and this is what Hitler was in fact going to do if the Soviet Union did not send in troops -- they could facilitate the creation of puppet states, like a pro-Nazi Ukrainian Nationalist state.
In any case, once Hitler had taken the position that Poland no longer existed as a state, and therefore that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact's agreement on spheres of influence in the state of Poland was no longer valid, the Soviet Union had only two choices: either to
  1. Send the Red Army into Western Ukraine and Wester Belorussia to establish sovereignty there; or
  2. Let Hitler send the Nazi army right up to the Soviet border.
* Since the Polish state had ceased to exist, the Soviet-Polish nonaggression pact was no longer in effect.

The Red Army could cross the border without "invading" or "committing aggression against" Poland. By sending its troops across the border the USSR was claiming sovereignty, so no one else could do so – e.g. a pro-Nazi Ukrainian Nationalist state, or Nazi Germany itself.
* Legitimacy flows from the state, and there was no longer any Polish state.
Therefore the Polish Army was no longer a legitimate army, but a gang of armed men acting without any legitimacy. Having no legitimacy, the Polish Army should have immediately laid down its arms and surrendered. Of course it could keep fighting -- but then it would no longer be fighting as a legitimate army but as partisans. Partisans have NO rights at all except under the laws of the government that does claim sovereignty.

* Some Polish nationalists claim that the Soviets showed their "perfidy" by refusing, once they had sent troops across the Soviet frontier, to allow the Polish army cross the border into Rumania.

But this is all wrong. The USSR had diplomatic relations with Rumania. The USSR could not permit thousands of armed men to cross the border from areas where it held sovereignty into Rumania, a neighboring state. Imagine if, say, Mexico or Canada tried to permit thousands of armed men to cross the border into the USA!
Re-negotiation of "Spheres of Influence" September 28 1939
See new_spheres_0939.html

All this is referred to directly in a Ribbentrop (German Foreign Minister)-to-Schulenburg (German ambassador to Moscow) communication of September 15-16 -- Telegram No. 360 of 15 September 1939 -- with its reference to "the possibility of the formation in this area of new states."

Note that Ribbentrop is very displeased with the idea that the Soviets would "tak[e] the threat to the Ukrainian and White Russian populations by Germany as a ground for Soviet action" and wants Schulenberg to get Molotov to give some other motive. He was unsuccessful; this was exactly the motive the Soviets gave:

"Nor can it be demanded of the Soviet Government that it remain indifferent to the fate of its blood brothers, the Ukrainians and Byelo-Russians inhabiting Poland, who even formerly were without rights and who now have been abandoned entirely to their fate.
The Soviet Government deems it its sacred duty to extend the hand of assistance to its brother Ukrainians and brother Byelo-Russians inhabiting Poland."
- TASS, September 17, 1939; quoted in New York Times September 18, 1939, p. 5; also Jane Degras (Ed.), Soviet Documents on Foreign Policy 1933-1941, vol. III (London/New York: Oxford University Press, 1953), pp. 374-375.

The German government was already considering that Poland no longer existed -- there's no reference to "Poland", only to "the area lying to the East of the German zone of influence", etc.

Polish Imperialism
A word of explanation regarding the Soviet reference to "the fate of its blood brothers, the Ukrainians and Byelo-Russians inhabiting Poland."

At the Treaty of Riga signed in March 1921 the Russian Republic (the Soviet Union was not officially formed until 1924), exhausted by the Civil War and foreign intervention, agreed to give half of Belorussia and Ukraine to the Polish imperialists in return for a desperately-needed peace.

We use the words "Polish imperialists" advisedly, because Poles -- native speakers of the Polish language -- were in the small minority in Western Belorussia and Western Ukraine, the areas that passed to Poland in this treaty. The Polish capitalist regime then encouraged ethnic Poles to populate these areas to "polonize" them, and put all kinds of restrictions on the use of the Belorussian and Ukrainian languages.

Up till the beginning of 1939, when Hitler decided to turn against Poland before making war on the USSR, the Polish government was maneuvering to join Nazi Germany in a war on the USSR in order to seize more territory.

As late as January 26, 1939, Polish Foreign Minister Beck was discussing this with Nazi Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop in Warsaw. Ribbentrop wrote:

M. Beck made no secret of the fact that Poland had aspirations directed toward the Soviet Ukraine and a connection with the Black Sea...

(Original in Akten zur deutschen ausw�rtigen Politik... Serie D. Bd. V. S. 139-140. English translation in Documents on German Foreign Policy. 1918-1945. Series D. Vol. V. The document in question is No. 126, pp. 167-168; this quotation on p. 168. Also in Russian in God Krizisa T. 1, Doc. No. 120.)

Polish Foreign Minister Beck was telling Ribbentrop that Poland would like to seize ALL of the Ukraine from the USSR, for that was the only way Poland could have had "a connection with the Black Sea."

In occupying Western Belorussia and Western Ukraine the USSR was reuniting Belorussians and Ukrainians, East and West. This is what the Soviets meant by the claim that they were "liberating" these areas. The word "liberation" is conventionally used when an occupying imperialist power withdraws, and that's what happened here.

The Polish Government In Exile
At the beginning of October 1939 the British and French governments recognized a Polish government-in-exile in France (later it moved to England). This was an act of hostility against Germany, of course. But the UK and France were already at war with Germany. (The USA took the position of refusing to recognize the conquest of Poland, but treated the Polish government-in-exile in Paris in an equivocal manner. Evidently it wasn’t sure what to do.)

The USSR could not recognize it for a number of reasons:
* Recognizing it would be incompatible with the neutrality of the USSR in the war.
It would be an act of hostility against Germany, with which the USSR had a non-aggression pact and a desire to avoid war. (The USSR did recognize it in July 1941, after the Nazi invasion).
* The Polish government-in-exile could not exercise sovereignty anywhere.
* Most important: if the USSR were to recognize the Polish government-in-exile, the USSR would have had to retreat back to its pre-September 1939 borders -- because the Polish government-in-exile would never recognize the Soviet occupation of Western Belorussia and Western Ukraine.
Then Germany would have simply marched up to the Soviet frontier.
To permit that would have been a crime against the Soviet people, of course. And, as the British and French soon agreed, a blow against them, and a big boost to Hitler as well. See should_the_ussr_have_permitted.html
Polish Government Uniquely Irresponsible
No other government during WW2 did anything remotely like what the Polish government did.

Many governments of countries conquered by the Axis formed "governments in exile" to continue the war. But only the Polish government interned itself in a neutral country, thereby stripping itself of the ability to function as a government and stripping their own people of their existence as a state.

What should the Polish government leader have done, once they realized they were completely beaten militarily?

  • The Polish government should have remained somewhere in Poland – if not in the capital, Warsaw, then in Eastern Poland. If they had set up an alternative capital in the East -- something the Soviets had prepared to do East of Moscow, in case the Nazis captured Moscow -- then they could have preserved a "rump" Poland.
    There it should have capitulated – as, for example, the French Government did in July 1940. Or, it could have sued for peace, as the Finnish government did in March 1940.
    Then Poland, like Finland, would have remained as a state, though it would certainly have lost territory.
  • Or, the Polish government could have fled to Great Britain or France, countries already at war with Germany.
    Polish government leaders could have fled by air any time. Or they could have gotten to the Polish port of Gdynia, which held out until September 14, and fled by boat.
  • Why didn't they?Did Polish government leaders think they might be killed? Well, so what? Tens of thousands of their fellow citizens and soldiers were being killed!
    • Maybe they really did believe Rumania would violate its neutrality with Germany and let them pass through to France? If they did believe this, they were remarkably stupid. There's never been any evidence that the Rumanian government gave them permission to do this.
    • Did they believe Britain and France were going to "save" them? If so, that too was remarkably stupid. Even if the British and French really intended to field a large army to attack German forces in the West, the Polish army would have had to hold against the Wehrmacht for a month at least, perhaps more. But the Polish Army was in rapid retreat after the first day or two of the war.
    • Or, maybe they fled simply out of sheer cowardice. That is what their flight out of Warsaw, the Polish capital, suggests.
Everything that happened afterwards was a result of the Polish government being interned in Rumania.

Here’s how the world might have been different if a "rump" Poland had remained after surrender to Hitler:

* A "rump" Poland might finally have agreed to make a mutual defense pact that included the USSR. That would have restarted "collective security", the anti-Nazi alliance between the Western Allies and the USSR that the Soviets sought but UK and French leaders rejected.

That would have
  • greatly weakened Hitler;
  • probably eliminating much of the Jewish Holocaust;
  • certainly preventing the conquest of France, Belgium, and the rest of Europe;
  • certainly prevented many millions of deaths of Soviet citizens.
* Poland could have emerged from WW2 as an independent state, perhaps a neutral one, like Finland, Sweden, or Austria.

All this, and more – if only the Polish government had remained in their country at least long enough to surrender, as every other government did.

Conclusion
See conclusion.html
(Main website - additional information and links)
 
Hi Angelburst!
That is totally different story which I was told during my education at school! Few years ago I would probably disagree with you and get into the big discussion. However right now I would not do that.
I can even say that my grandfather fought on this war and when I was young he told the stories about WWII. The only antagonist in these tales were Nazi germans and Ukrainians troops supporting them. At the school time I thought that this was only due to that he was in AL (armia ludowa - people’s army) supported by USSR. Right now I am thinking that Maybe it was something more - this what you are saying. That USSR was not a attacker. I will read the attached documents later on. Thanks!
The Soviet Union/Russia never-ever invaded Poland! Nor did the Soviet Union/Russia invade Poland in September of 1932.

The Soviets Wanted to Protect the USSR – and therefore to Preserve Independent Poland
Here you meant 1939?

You said also that soviet union never invaded Poland.
What about 13–25 August 1920? The Warsaw battle? The USSR was not named yet, but the leaders were similar.
I am just curious, Maybe missing something.
Additional question I have about Communism in Poland 45-89. These times weren’t quite pleasant based on What people are saying.
Regarding the NATO and US troops I totally agree. As I said sometimr ago. Polish are not learning from our history at all. Looks like karma. coming back. At every time in history we had politicians/leaders which were selling our country.
 
Here you meant 1939?

You said also that soviet union never invaded Poland.
What about 13–25 August 1920? The Warsaw battle? The USSR was not named yet, but the leaders were similar.
I am just curious, Maybe missing something.
Additional question I have about Communism in Poland 45-89. These times weren’t quite pleasant based on What people are saying.
Regarding the NATO and US troops I totally agree. As I said sometimr ago. Polish are not learning from our history at all. Looks like karma. coming back. At every time in history we had politicians/leaders which were selling our country.

I have always held a deep fascination for "History" in general. It basically took root when I was in High School (many centuries ago :lol: ).
I was born in the United States but my family were from a European Country, a Country torn apart by War. Several older family members still had fresh memories "from the old Country" and were personally aware of the Political and social climate, including events. Many of their experiences were past down to us - kids - in bed time stories or around Christian Holiday's, when we all got together.

My first problem with the American school system was learning English or should I stress - unlearning some of the language. My older Cousin Patrick - who was 6 years older - taught me a bunch of "swear words" first! He thought it was funny but he got us both in trouble! Big Time! I think, I went through all of first grade - only whispering "Yes and NO". I was afraid, if I said anything more, I would get in trouble.

When I got into High School, the only subject I found difficulty with - was History class, especially European studies. What was being taught in the books - didn't correspond with the stories that were passed down to me, by family members. It added a lot of confusion.

I remember reading/translating a full chapter to my Grandmother and then she gave me her version. They did not match. I approached my History Teacher and tried to explain the differences, because after each Chapter or lesson, we would be given a written test and I wasn't sure how to approach some questions that might be on the test?

His answer was simple - I would be tested on the information "in the book" that was being taught ... not my Grandmother's version! I found his attitude to be very upsetting because he made me feel that my Grandmother was a liar - not telling the truth? I respected the Teacher and his position BUT I had higher respect for my Grandmother! We had a family code that was drilled into us as a child - translated went like this ... to lie is to hurt other people. A lie always needs the support of another lie. The truth will always stand alone - unblemished.

I lost interest in History class and it reflected in my grades. I found it difficult to keep an "A" average and it was that class that brought my average down and knocked me off the Honor Roll that year. But it taught me a valuable lesson - Don't believe in everything you read - do your own research.

So Gruchaa, in my own way, I can relate to your questions. My suggestion would be - to use the information that your Grandfather passed on to you "as a starting point" to explore further. The link and the information I Posted has additional links to other information and referrals and is good in comparative studies. It should help to answer some of your questions, especially on the other dates.
 
I sense, this situation is only going to escalate and become worse?

Polish police detain 25 after attacks on equality march
Police officers detain a protester during a demonstration against the first Pride Parade in the city of Bialystok, Poland July 20, 2019 in this picture obtained from social media July 21, 2019. Magda Bogdanowicz/via REUTERS
Police officers detain a protester during a demonstration against the first Pride Parade in the city of Bialystok, Poland July 20, 2019 in this picture obtained from social media July 21, 2019. Magda Bogdanowicz/via REUTERS

WARSAW July 21, 2019 - Police have detained 25 people in Bialystok, eastern Poland, after attacks on those taking part in the city’s first equality march amid accusations that the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party benefits from fuelling anti-gay sentiment.

Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) rights have become an issue in Poland ahead of a general election expected in October, with the conservative party depicting campaigners as a threat to traditional Polish values.

“Officers ensure security regardless of the ideas, values and beliefs proclaimed by citizens. Any person who breaks the law (...) should know they can be held responsible,” interior minister Elzbieta Witek said on Twitter on Sunday.

Videos posted on Twitter show men attacking participants in the march, including a woman, and shouting anti-LGBT insults. Some of the attackers were wearing football club t-shirts.

Last year during an equality march in Lublin, another eastern Polish city, activists were hounded by groups of men, who were dispersed by riot police firing tear gas.

This year, at a political rally before European Parliament elections, PiS leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski urged Poles to vote for what he called “the only party that gives a 100% guarantee that our values will be protected”.

LGBT rights constitute foreign values that pose “a real threat to our identity, to our nation”, he said. Some observers see parallels with the party’s 2015 campaign, when it deployed anti-immigrant rhetoric.

“One should condemn any act of hooliganism and I condemn it doubly (...) Firstly because you can’t beat, yank people under any circumstances,” PiS legislator Marcin Horala told broadcaster TVN24.

“But also because nothing helps promote LGBT in Poland as much as giving them the role of victim, as was the case in Bialystok,” he added.

PiS took power in 2015 and remains popular thanks to generous welfare payouts, low unemployment and its nationalist rhetoric.

A newspaper supporting PiS was criticized in recent days by the U.S. and British embassies for its plan to put an “LGBT-free zone” sticker on one of its editions.
 
If you are interested in considering different views on Poland in 1918-1939, then I recommend studying the political parties in Poland at that time, the relationship with Germany and the planned attack on Nazi Germany, which France did not want to join. In general, the political situation in Poland at that time offered many opportunities, but the Polish government was very hard-core. What is the truth about the outbreak of war, it's hard to say. It's hard for me to believe that the USSR could be favorable to Poland, either because of the still very vivid plan of the conquest of Europe by the communists or because of the miserable defeat of the Russians in 1920. This is also well illustrated by the fact that when the Soviet army "liberated" Poles, there was an unbelievable amount of rapes on the Poles. There are historians who claim that at present there may be no Pole, whose ancestor in either side would not be a "Soviet rapist". The history is written by the winners, and I have not made up my knowledge for a long time, but I also wanted to point out to you that Russia's favor for Poland in the Ribentrop-Molotov pact was not so unambiguous. If you want I can try to get involved in the discussion, when I was still going to high school, I was very interested in the history of my country and the world, so maybe I can add something interesting. Unfortunately, temporarily I'm fresh after marriage and I still have some things to do :-)
 
A small annotation to the points listed earlier if we would like to keep the discussion going:

1. The Polish government did not declare war on USSR.
2. The Polish Supreme Commander Rydz-Smigly ordered Polish soldiers do not fight the Soviets.
In fact, from the military point of view, the Polish government had no idea what to do after the declaration of war. They behaved illogically and did not take full advantage of the military potential. No wonder they panicked at the news of the Soviet troops entering and ordered "not to react." There were some talented commanders, eg Maczek, unfortunately Rydz-Śmigły did not know what to do and it was seen in his orders throughout the entire September campaign.

3. The Polish President Ignaz Moscicki, interned in Rumania since Sept. 17, tacitly admitted that Poland no longer had a government.
The Polish government certainly did not act fully in favor of the state from 1936. As it was previously difficult to say, because it is related to the quite controversial figure of Piłsudzki. The Polish army underwent a profound modernization in 1939. Fighting into the fight at a time when each month gave a better chance of a "military" advantage was in itself unreasonable. And this is just the tip of the iceberg


4. The Rumanian government tacitly admitted that Poland no longer had a government.
5. Rumania had a military treaty with Poland aimed against the USSR. Rumania did not declare war on the USSR.
Romania, despite the fact that it was a large country after the invasion of Poland and Czechoslovakia, did not have much to say. Any aggressive movement would end in open and uneven fighting, whether with Germany or with Russia or with both. (You must also take into account the attitude of France and Great Britain).

6. France did not declare war on the USSR, though it had a mutual defense treaty with Poland.
The France , even after the declaration of war, did nothing at the time with the Germans. This alone shows that they had completely somewhere what is happening in the "buffer" east.

7. England not demanded that the Red Army after September 17, 1939.
During the victory parade in London, the Polish Army participating in World War II on behalf of GB were not allowed to celebrate despite the enormous sacrifice of the Poles as ordinary "soldiers" in someone else's case. Nobody cared about such a marginal state like Poland. The game was about Germany, Poland was written off so why would they argue about it?

8. The League of Nations did not determine the USSR had invaded a member state.
9. All countries accepted the USSR's declaration of neutrality.
Poland did not mean much in this political game. When two large corporations are fighting each other, who cares about small subcontractors? When the League of Nations had a choice to either tease the USSR or be nice and win something, it is obvious what they chose, in the end politicians do not care too much about any correctness of views until the voters learn about it.
 
The Treaty included a line of Soviet interest within Poland beyond which German troops could not pass in the event Germany routed the Polish army in a war.

The point here was that, if the Polish army were beaten, it and the Polish government could retreat beyond the line of Soviet interest, and so find shelter, since Hitler had agreed not to penetrate further into Poland than that line.
From there they could make peace with Germany. The USSR would have a buffer state, armed and hostile to Germany, between the Reich and the Soviet frontier.

The Soviets -- "Stalin", to use a crude synecdoche (= "a part that stands for the whole") -- did not do this out of any love for fascist Poland. The Soviets wanted a Polish government -- ANY Polish government -- as a buffer between the USSR and the Nazi armies.

The Polish Government In Exile
At the beginning of October 1939 the British and French governments recognized a Polish government-in-exile in France (later it moved to England). This was an act of hostility against Germany, of course. But the UK and France were already at war with Germany. (The USA took the position of refusing to recognize the conquest of Poland, but treated the Polish government-in-exile in Paris in an equivocal manner. Evidently it wasn’t sure what to do.)

During and after WW11, the United States did absolutely nothing to help Poland! Yet, the USSR/Russia provided "a safety-net" for the Polish Government, if the need presented itself. A lot of planning goes into a decision of this magnitude. The Soviets, at the time, wanted to help preserved the Polish Government.

"and so find shelter" - and now Poland is slamming the door shut on Russia ... while "opening the front door wide open" to be slowly destroyed from within by NATO? Are we looking at "History" repeating itself? When NATO gets done manipulating Poland - Poland's status will "be in name - only"! There will be no sovereignty left.

Poland says Putin's presence on WWII anniversary inappropriate
Poland says Putin's presence on WWII anniversary inappropriate

REUTERS



At the same time, U.S. President Donald Trump will most likely arrive at the ceremony in Warsaw.

Deputy Prime Minister of Poland Jacek Sasin has said Polish authorities consider inappropriate the attendance by Russian President Vladimir Putin of commemorative events on the 80th anniversary of the start of World War II, which will be held in Warsaw in September 2019.

"I think it would be inappropriate to mark the anniversary of the beginning of the armed aggression against Poland with the participation of a leader who today treats his neighbors using the same methods," he told Polskie Radio 24, according to Deutsche Welle's Russian service.

He stressed Putin is "the leader of a country that is carrying out armed aggression against its neighbors." (???)

At the same time, the politician said U.S. President Donald Trump would most likely arrive at the ceremony in Warsaw. According to Sasin, the report suggesting that Trump will attend the event is still unofficial. "However, we can say with a high degree of confidence that this visit will take place," he said.

Answering a question about a possible visit of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Sasin said Warsaw is "optimistic about this." According to the politician, the invitations have already been sent to a wide circle of world leaders, and Poland expects the commemorative events on the 80th anniversary of the start of World War II will be held at an international scale.

It became known in March 2019 that Poland would not invite Putin to commemorative events. Paweł Mucha, Deputy Chief of the Chancellery of the President of the Republic of Poland, said only partners in the European Union and the countries of the Eastern Partnership program would receive invitations from Warsaw. In response, representatives of the Russian Foreign Ministry said they "were perplexed" with such a decision on the part of Warsaw.
 

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