Ponerology in Action: Claiming Political Ponerology is Anti-Semitic

My uncle Giuseppe, who was imprisoned in a concentration camp, told me he watched a German soldier shoot a man dead for picking up a potato that fell off a truck. Everyone was told that the potato was food for the pigs that were food for the soldiers.

Imagine that.

I wonder how suumcuique’s friends would respond if they had a choice of neither Hitler nor Stalin. Or, if they could know how to prevent a repeat of any pathocracy, would they?
 
Laura said:
I agree with Anart, suumcuique. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. And it takes more than reading Lobaczewski. You'll need to spend YEARS, as most of us here have, wading through the literature both on psychopathology AND Hitler, Nazis, and other pathocracies.

I understand you are a language teacher in China looking for a job. Somehow, I don't think that qualifies you to pronounce on any of these topics when you are talking to a number of qualified professionals in the respective fields.

Either do your homework, or don't let the door hit you on the way out.


Would you be prejudiced against Chinese?

In the meantime, I suggest you get yourself a more effective IP address checker, just so that, next time, you avoid feeling so embarassed. Clearly, that assumption of yours sums up your 'understanding'.

A few months ago, your books as well as that Polish guy's came strongly recommended to me by a few Brittish nationalists, acquaintances of mine. I then read a few pages of 'Political Ponerology' and some of your writings, and could not believe that those people were so enthusiastic about typically Jewish views such as yours, so true it is, so blatant it is that the whole thing smacks of the grossest Kabbalism. Anyway, I decided to investigate, but, for some reasons, it took me a while to find this forum of yours. In a few days, you have enabled me, by showing your true colour, to reach my goal : to unambiguously show those rather naive Brittish acquaintances of mine that they were greatly mistaken.
 
suumcuique said:
A few months ago, your books as well as that Polish guy's came strongly recommended to me by a few Brittish nationalists, acquaintances of mine. I then read a few pages of 'Political Ponerology' and some of your writings, and could not believe that those people were so enthusiastic about typically Jewish views such as yours, so true it is, so blatant it is that the whole thing smacks of the grossest Kabbalism. Anyway, I decided to investigate, but, for some reasons, it took me a while to find this forum of yours. In a few days, you have enabled me, by showing your true colour, to reach my goal : to unambiguously show those rather naive Brittish acquaintances of mine that they were greatly mistaken.

So you entered our forum with an agenda (not exactly a ringing endorsement of your objectivity) and a preconceived notion of what this forum, and its participants, were all about. How you expect to learn anything that might conflict with this agenda is a question you may wish to consider. But my guess is you have no desire to change, and that will probably be the biggest hindrance to ever properly understanding Ponerology, Laura's work, and this forum as a whole. If you won't even take the time to read the whole book, I don't know that your opinion really matters in this discussion. I think it's time to move on to another forum, one which may embrace your pathological persistence.
 
Suumcuique,

Now that you have fulfilled your agenda I suppose that means you can go away now.

I personally think that an understanding of psychopathology in politics and the normalizing of psychopathic behavior by normal humans explains a heck of a lot about the state of the world. Thus, I truly hope as many as possible learn about this idea. I really felt a sense of lost time as I realised you were trying to discuss psychopathy without knowing what it is along with what seemed to be an argument of how Hitler is somehow a more elevated mass murderer than Stalin.

Call me old-fashioned, but a more orderly style of mass-murder is not in any way more palatable to me than a messier style.

I did reread a couple of chapters of Political Ponerology today where L discusses the formative factors of normal human psychology because of your questions. Thus I guess reading your posts was not entirely a waste.
 
suumcuique said:
I then read a few pages of 'Political Ponerology' and some of your writings, and could not believe that those people were so enthusiastic about typically Jewish views such as yours, so true it is, so blatant it is that the whole thing smacks of the grossest Kabbalism. Anyway, I decided to investigate, but, for some reasons, it took me a while to find this forum of yours. In a few days, you have enabled me, by showing your true colour, to reach my goal : to unambiguously show those rather naive Brittish acquaintances of mine that they were greatly mistaken.
Seems to me you haven't been taking your pills for a while.
What you just wrote sounds like a psychotic episode.
I think its time for you to troll off.
 
suumcuique said:
...to unambiguously show those rather naive Brittish acquaintances of mine that they were greatly mistaken

Is it you who are mistaken and not that of your British acquaintances?
Your acquaintances can speak for themselves but you on the other hand
have spoken and have shown us all of your true intentions.

Au Revoir!
 
I think that in suumcuique we have a very good example of exactly what Lobaczewski described in the following passages:

Lobaczewski said:
Schizoidia: Schizoidia, or schizoidal psychopathy, was isolated by the very first of the famous creators of modern psychiatry. From the beginning, it was treated as a lighter form of the same hereditary taint which is the cause of susceptibility to schizophrenia. However, this latter connection could neither be confirmed nor denied with the help of statistical analysis, and no biological test was then found which would have been able to solve this dilemma. For practical reasons, we shall discuss schizoidia with no further reference to this traditional relationship.

Literature provides us with descriptions of several varieties of this anomaly, whose existence can be attributed either to changes in the genetic factor or to differences in other individ- ual characteristics of a non-pathological nature. Let us thus sketch these sub-species’ common features.

Carriers of this anomaly are hypersensitive and distrustful, while, at the same time, pay little attention to the feelings of others. They tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to retaliate for minor offenses. Sometimes they are eccentric and odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other people’s intentions. They easily become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature. We frequently find expressions of their characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human nature is so bad that order in human society can only be maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical expression the “schizoid declaration”.

Human nature does in fact tend to be naughty, especially when the schizoids embitter other people’s lives. When they become wrapped up in situations of serious stress, however, the schizoid’s failings cause them to collapse easily. The capacity for thought is thereupon characteristically stifled, and fre- quently the schizoids fall into reactive psychotic states so similar in appearance to schizophrenia that they lead to misdiagnoses.

The common factor in the varieties of this anomaly is a dull pallor of emotion and lack of feeling for the psychological realities, an essential factor in basic intelligence. This can be attributed to some incomplete quality of the instinctive substratum, which works as though founded on shifting sand. Low emotional pressure enables them to develop proper speculative reasoning, which is useful in non-humanistic spheres of activity, but because of their one-sidedness, they tend to consider themselves intellectually superior to “ordinary” people.

and this bit to show why it should be taken seriously

Lobaczewski said:
Who plays the first crucial role in this process of the origin of pathocracy, schizoids or characteropaths? It appears to be the former; therefore, let us delineate their role first.

During stable times which are ostensibly happy, albeit dependent upon injustice to other individuals and nations, doctrinaire people believe they have found a simple solution to fix the world. Such a historical period is always characterized by an impoverished psychological world view, so that a schizoidally impoverished psychological world view does not stand out as odd during such times and is accepted as legal tender. These doctrinaire individuals characteristically manifest a certain contempt with regard to moralists then preaching the need to rediscover lost human values and to develop a richer, more appropriate psychological world view.

Schizoid characters aim to impose their own conceptual world upon other people or social groups, using relatively controlled pathological egotism and the exceptional tenacity derived from their persistent nature. They are thus eventually able to overpower another individual’s personality, which causes the latter’s behavior to turn desperately illogical. They may also exert a similar influence upon the group of people they have joined. They are psychological loners who then begin to feel better in some human organization, wherein they become zealots for some ideology, religious bigots, materialists, or adherents of an ideology with satanic features. If their activities consist of direct contact on a small social scale, their acquaintances generally just consider them to be eccentric, which limits their ponerogenic role. However, if they manage to hide their own personality behind the written word, their influence may poison the minds of society on a wide scale and for a long time.

...

Humanists are prepared to understand that era and its legacy within categories characterized by their own traditions. They search for societal, ideational, and moral causes for known phenomena. Such an explanation, however, can never consti- tute the whole truth, since it ignores the biological factors which participated in the genesis of the phenomena. Schizoidia is the most frequent factor, albeit not the only one.

In spite of the fact that the writings of schizoidal authors contain the above described deficiency, or even an openly for- mulated schizoidal declaration which constitutes sufficient warning to specialists, the average reader accepts them not as a view of reality warped by this anomaly, but rather as an idea to which he should consider seriously based on his convictions and his reason. That is the first mistake
.
The oversimplified pattern of ideas, devoid of psychological color and based on easily available data, tends to exert an intense attracting influence on individuals who are insufficiently critical, frequently frustrated as result of downward social ad- justment, culturally neglected, or characterized by some psy- chological deficiencies of their own. Such writings are particu- larly attractive to a hystericized society. Others who may read such writings will be immediately provoked to criticism based on their healthy common sense, though they also they fail to grasp the essential cause of the error: that it emerges from a biologically deviant mind.

Societal interpretation of such writings and doctrinaire dec- larations breaks down into main trifurcations, engendering divisiveness and conflict. The first branch is the path of aver- sion, based on rejection of the contents of the work due to per- sonal motivations, differing convictions, or moral revulsion. These reactions contain the component of a moralistic interpre- tation of pathological phenomena.

The second and third branches relate to two distinctly dif- ferent apperception types among those persons who accept the contents of such works: the critically-corrective and the pathological.

The critically-corrective approach is taken by people whose feel for psychological reality is normal and they tend to incor- porate the more valuable elements of the work. They then trivialize the obvious errors and fill in the missing elements of the schizoid deficiencies by means of their own richer world view. This gives rise to a more sensible, measured, and thus creative interpretation, but is cannot be completely free from the influence of the error frequently adduced above.

Pathological acceptance is manifested by individuals with psychological deficiencies of their own: diversiform deviations, whether inherited or acquired, as well as by many people bear- ing personality malformations or who have been injured by social injustice. That explains why this scope is wider than thecircle drawn by direct action of pathological factors. Pathological acceptance of schizoidal writings or declarations by other deviants often brutalizes the authors’ concepts and promotes ideas of force and revolutionary means.

The passage of time and bitter experience has unfortunately not prevented this characteristic misunderstanding born of schizoid nineteenth-century creativity, with Marx’s works at the fore, from affecting people and depriving them of their common sense.

If only for purposes of the above-mentioned psychological experiment, it is good practice for developing awareness of this pathological factor by searching the works of K. Marx for several statements with these characteristic deficits. When such a study is conducted by several people with varied world views, the experiment will show how a clear picture of reality can be restored, and it becomes easier to find a common language.

Schizoidia has thus played an essential role as one of the factors in the genesis of the evil threatening our contemporary world. Practicing psychotherapy upon the world will therefore demand that the results of such evil be eliminated as skillfully as possible.
 
dant said:
suumcuique said:
...to unambiguously show those rather naive Brittish acquaintances of mine that they were greatly mistaken

Is it you who are mistaken and not that of your British acquaintances?
Your acquaintances can speak for themselves but you on the other hand
have spoken and have shown us all of your true intentions.

Au Revoir!

Whether this was deliberate or not, you turn out to be the only Lobaczewskist on this thread to have showed some kind of sagacity, to have realised, more or less unconsciously, that "the tree that hide the forest" is not (the English translation of) a Chinese proverb, and that proverbs are not all chinese. Anyone with a basic understanding of human psychology could have easily figured out, reading carefully my messages, that I am not Chinese. Failing which, anyone with a decent IP tracker would have realised that I'm not based in China. I'm only mentionning this because of Laura Knight Jadczyk's ad hominem out of the blue attack. Since she felt like telling people she owns the copyrights of the English translation of 'Political Ponerology', she might want to consider having it translated and published in Chinese : its clinical casuistic can certainly appeal to so convoluted and so sentimentalistic and, thus, so sado-masochistic people as the Chinese.

I did have an agenda entering this forum, and I fully acknowledge it. My aim was to unmask Laura Knight Jadczyk's misleading psycho-analytical postmodernist rhetoric and jargon and, in the process, to show unambiguously to these Brittish acquaintances of mine - especially to a dear friend of mine whose main aim in life is to prevent to the best of his ability Great Britain from being ruined by cultural distorters and third world immigrants - that they were mistaken in thinking that they could find in LKJ's work and in Lobaczewski's a true support. That goal of mine has been achieved.
 
suumcuique said:
I did have an agenda entering this forum, and I fully acknowledge it. My aim was to unmask Laura Knight Jadczyk's misleading psycho-analytical postmodernist rhetoric and jargon and, in the process, to show unambiguously to these Brittish acquaintances of mine- especially to a dear friend of mine whose main aim in life is to prevent to the best of his ability Great Britain from being ruined by cultural distorters and third world immigrants - that they were mistaken

And you failed miserably.

It would likely be quite helpful to your British 'friends' to read this thread so they can more fully understand who they are dealing with in you - it might save them quite a bit of trouble in the future.
 
suumcuique said:
I did have an agenda entering this forum, and I fully acknowledge it. My aim was to unmask Laura Knight Jadczyk's misleading psycho-analytical postmodernist rhetoric and jargon and, in the process, to show unambiguously to these Brittish acquaintances of mine- especially to a dear friend of mine whose main aim in life is to prevent to the best of his ability Great Britain from being ruined by cultural distorters and third world immigrants - that they were mistaken
Sounds like jealousy to me.

anart said:
It would likely be quite helpful to your British 'friends' to read this thread so they can more fully understand who they are dealing with in you - it might save them quite a bit of trouble in the future.

Speaking of saving people trouble, I suggest that this person be ignored until they either leave of their own accord (doubtful) or get banned.
 
suumcuique said:
Anyone with a basic understanding of human psychology could have easily figured out, reading carefully my messages, that I am not Chinese.

When pathology is involved, as in your case, all psychological bets are off.

suumcuique said:
Failing which, anyone with a decent IP tracker would have realised that I'm not based in China. I'm only mentionning this because of Laura Knight Jadczyk's ad hominem out of the blue attack.

I don't spend my time tracking IPs. I simply looked to see if you posted in other forums/sites on the net using your user name or email addy. I found the following:

_http://www.okokokok.cn/classifiedsinbeijing.asp?classifiedad=202579

am a conscientious, organised, dedicated, and hard-working teacher of French with a 15+ year career and a consistent record of meeting employers’ requirements and goals.

I have taught at almost all levels, in various kinds of schools, ranging from secondary schools and private schools - both in France and abroad - to University - 4 years as a lecturer at Chonnam dae National University, Kwangju, South Korea, etc.

I hold a MA in French literature, a BA in French literature and French as a Foreign Language, as well as a PGDE, obtained in the UK last year. I am also a freelance translator (from English/ Italian to French)

I would be interested in finding a challenging teaching job in higher education.

I look forward to hearing from any possible employer.

Haidian District


suumcuique said:
Since she felt like telling people she owns the copyrights of the English translation of 'Political Ponerology', she might want to consider having it translated and published in Chinese : its clinical casuistic can certainly appeal to so convoluted and so sentimentalistic and, thus, so sado-masochistic people as the Chinese.

More evidence of schizoidal/paranoid pathology. Yes, I agree that China has problems. But blaming a victim for being a victim is characteristic of the psychopath.


suumcuique said:
I did have an agenda entering this forum, and I fully acknowledge it. My aim was to unmask Laura Knight Jadczyk's misleading psycho-analytical postmodernist rhetoric and jargon

Another characteristic of psychopathy is to accuse their target of what they, themselves, are guilty.

suumcuique said:
and, in the process, to show unambiguously to these Brittish acquaintances of mine - especially to a dear friend of mine whose main aim in life is to prevent to the best of his ability Great Britain from being ruined by cultural distorters and third world immigrants - that they were mistaken in thinking that they could find in LKJ's work and in Lobaczewski's a true support. That goal of mine has been achieved.

If your "dear friend" (can we say "intended victim"?) considers your job done, then nothing I could ever say or do would change that.

Allow me to re-quote that most pertinent bit from Lobaczewski that so aptly describes your interaction on this forum as well as your stated agenda regarding your "friend."

Lobaczewski said:
These doctrinaire individuals characteristically manifest a certain contempt with regard to moralists then preaching the need to rediscover lost human values and to develop a richer, more appropriate psychological world view.

Schizoid characters aim to impose their own conceptual world upon other people or social groups, using relatively controlled pathological egotism and the exceptional tenacity derived from their persistent nature. They are thus eventually able to overpower another individual’s personality, which causes the latter’s behavior to turn desperately illogical.

Let me emphasize that your pathological egotism is only relatively controlled, and poorly at that. It reminds me a great deal of the following article:

Incompetent People Really Have No Clue, Studies Find

Erica Goode
San Francisco Chronicle
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:26 UTC

There are many incompetent people in the world. Dr. David A. Dunning is haunted by the fear that he might be one of them.

Dunning, a professor of psychology at Cornell, worries about this because, according to his research, most incompetent people do not know that they are incompetent.

On the contrary. People who do things badly, Dunning has found in studies conducted with a graduate student, Justin Kruger, are usually supremely confident of their abilities -- more confident, in fact, than people who do things well.

''I began to think that there were probably lots of things that I was bad at, and I didn't know it,'' Dunning said.

One reason that the ignorant also tend to be the blissfully self-assured, the researchers believe, is that the skills required for competence often are the same skills necessary to recognize competence.

The incompetent, therefore, suffer doubly, they suggested in a paper appearing in the December issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

''Not only do they reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it,'' wrote Kruger, now an assistant professor at the University of Illinois, and Dunning.

This deficiency in ''self-monitoring skills,'' the researchers said, helps explain the tendency of the humor-impaired to persist in telling jokes that are not funny, of day traders to repeatedly jump into the market -- and repeatedly lose out -- and of the politically clueless to continue holding forth at dinner parties on the fine points of campaign strategy.

In a series of studies, Kruger and Dunning tested their theory of incompetence. They found that subjects who scored in the lowest quartile on tests of logic, English grammar and humor were also the most likely to ''grossly overestimate'' how well they had performed.

In all three tests, subjects' ratings of their ability were positively linked to their actual scores. But the lowest-ranked participants showed much greater distortions in their self-estimates.

Asked to evaluate their performance on the test of logical reasoning, for example, subjects who scored only in the 12th percentile guessed that they had scored in the 62nd percentile, and deemed their overall skill at logical reasoning to be at the 68th percentile.

Similarly, subjects who scored at the 10th percentile on the grammar test ranked themselves at the 67th percentile in the ability to ''identify grammatically correct standard English,'' and estimated their test scores to be at the 61st percentile.

On the humor test, in which participants were asked to rate jokes according to their funniness (subjects' ratings were matched against those of an ''expert'' panel of professional comedians), low-scoring subjects were also more apt to have an inflated perception of their skill. But because humor is idiosyncratically defined, the researchers said, the results were less conclusive.

Unlike unskilled counterparts, the most able subjects in the study, Kruger and Dunning found, were likely to underestimate their competence. The researchers attributed this to the fact that, in the absence of information about how others were doing, highly competent subjects assumed that others were performing as well as they were -- a phenomenon psychologists term the ''false consensus effect.''

When high-scoring subjects were asked to ''grade'' the grammar tests of their peers, however, they quickly revised their evaluations of their own performance. In contrast, the self-assessments of those who scored badly themselves were unaffected by the experience of grading others; some subjects even further inflated their estimates of their own abilities.

''Incompetent individuals were less able to recognize competence in others,'' the researchers concluded.

In a final experiment, Dunning and Kruger set out to discover if training would help modify the exaggerated self-perceptions of incapable subjects. In fact, a short training session in logical reasoning did improve the ability of low-scoring subjects to assess their performance realistically, they found.

The findings, the psychologists said, support Thomas Jefferson's assertion that ''he who knows best knows how little he knows.''

And the research meshes neatly with other work indicating that overconfidence is common; studies have found, for example, that the vast majority of people rate themselves as ''above average'' on a wide array of abilities -- though such an abundance of talent would be impossible in statistical terms. This overestimation, studies indicate, is more likely for tasks that are difficult than for those that are easy.

Such studies are not without critics. Dr. David C. Funder, a psychology professor at the University of California at Riverside, for example, said he suspects that most lay people have only a vague idea of the meaning of ''average'' in statistical terms.

''I'm not sure the average person thinks of 'average' or 'percentile' in quite that literal a sense,'' Funder said, ''so 'above average' might mean to them 'pretty good,' or 'OK,' or 'doing all right.' And if, in fact, people mean something subjective when they use the word, then it's really hard to evaluate whether they're right or wrong, using the statistical criterion.''

But Dunning said his current research and past studies indicated there are many reasons why people would tend to overestimate their competency and not be aware of it.

In various situations, feedback is absent, or at least ambiguous; even a humorless joke, for example, is likely to be met with polite laughter. And faced with incompetence, social norms prevent most people from blurting out ''You stink!'' -- truthful though this assessment may be.

While we pay attention to external considering here, that applies to people who are sincere and do not arrive with an agenda.

In your case, the kindest thing that can be said about your logic and reasoning abilities, not to mention your data, is: You stink!
 
Laura said:
In your case, the kindest thing that can be said about your logic and reasoning abilities, not to mention your data, is: You stink!

:rotfl:

Yet another educational thread on schizoids!
 
It is rather interesting to me, that of my posting, of a
rather succinct question. S/he clearly has no room for
answering the question directly other than to say s/he
was attacked "out of the blue", and continues to rant
unabated, refusing to enter into a sincere dialog. The
motive was clear from the outset, a closed mind, with
an agenda to attack and discredit anyone that has
a different perspective, other than their own?

Interesting thread this is, and clearly points out how
dead-set some people can be?

"A rolling stone gathers no moss" comes to my mind, strangely.
 
Dant-
Interesting thread this is, and clearly points out how
dead-set some people can be?

The saying that comes to mind for me is - ' You can't teach somebody something they don't already KNOW'
 
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